GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Seems like a curious decision to make healing scale on weapon and spell damage. In this current healing system the strongest damage builds also have great self-healing. Wouldn't it be better for game play if players had to choose between damage and healing?
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Seems like a curious decision to make healing scale on weapon and spell damage. In this current healing system the strongest damage builds also have great self-healing. Wouldn't it be better for game play if players had to choose between damage and healing?
I guess the main idea here would be that you can be efficient playing solo as well.
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Seems like a curious decision to make healing scale on weapon and spell damage. In this current healing system the strongest damage builds also have great self-healing. Wouldn't it be better for game play if players had to choose between damage and healing?
I guess the main idea here would be that you can be efficient playing solo as well.
I was thinking the same until I remembered ZOS' past decisions such as AOE caps, dynamic ult removal, attacks from stealth nerf, and resource nerfs.
They seem pretty anti-solo, and rather adamant about wanting players to group up, especially in Cyrodiil.
To promote solo play. Not everyone wants to run with healers. Your suggestions only help to empower ppl who crutch on group support or zerging. For solo play to be possible, characters have to be able to heal and also deal sufficient damage. I don’t see the point of separating it other than to unnecessarily make the game more inaccessible and cumbersome.
This rule set applies to everyone and accommodates solo solo play alongside group play.
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »To promote solo play. Not everyone wants to run with healers. Your suggestions only help to empower ppl who crutch on group support or zerging. For solo play to be possible, characters have to be able to heal and also deal sufficient damage. I don’t see the point of separating it other than to unnecessarily make the game more inaccessible and cumbersome.
This rule set applies to everyone and accommodates solo solo play alongside group play.
Are you sure ZOS is promoting solo play? Their history of significant changes, which slammed solo players, suggests otherwise:
- Dynamic Ult removal
- Morrowind sustain nerfs
- Attack from stealth nerf
- AOE caps (which will finally change in the upcoming update)
Edit: typo
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »To promote solo play. Not everyone wants to run with healers. Your suggestions only help to empower ppl who crutch on group support or zerging. For solo play to be possible, characters have to be able to heal and also deal sufficient damage. I don’t see the point of separating it other than to unnecessarily make the game more inaccessible and cumbersome.
This rule set applies to everyone and accommodates solo solo play alongside group play.
Are you sure ZOS is promoting solo play? Their history of significant changes, which slammed solo players, suggests otherwise:
- Dynamic Ult removal
- Morrowind sustain nerfs
- Attack from stealth nerf
- AOE caps (which will finally change in the upcoming update)
Edit: typo
There’s a difference between promoting solo play, such as fair dueling, and promoting 1vX. They’re aggressively trying to nerf the ability to do the latter, which is very unfortunate.
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »To promote solo play. Not everyone wants to run with healers. Your suggestions only help to empower ppl who crutch on group support or zerging. For solo play to be possible, characters have to be able to heal and also deal sufficient damage. I don’t see the point of separating it other than to unnecessarily make the game more inaccessible and cumbersome.
This rule set applies to everyone and accommodates solo solo play alongside group play.
Are you sure ZOS is promoting solo play? Their history of significant changes, which slammed solo players, suggests otherwise:
- Dynamic Ult removal
- Morrowind sustain nerfs
- Attack from stealth nerf
- AOE caps (which will finally change in the upcoming update)
Edit: typo
There’s a difference between promoting solo play, such as fair dueling, and promoting 1vX. They’re aggressively trying to nerf the ability to do the latter, which is very unfortunate.
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »To promote solo play. Not everyone wants to run with healers. Your suggestions only help to empower ppl who crutch on group support or zerging. For solo play to be possible, characters have to be able to heal and also deal sufficient damage. I don’t see the point of separating it other than to unnecessarily make the game more inaccessible and cumbersome.
This rule set applies to everyone and accommodates solo solo play alongside group play.
Are you sure ZOS is promoting solo play? Their history of significant changes, which slammed solo players, suggests otherwise:
- Dynamic Ult removal
- Morrowind sustain nerfs
- Attack from stealth nerf
- AOE caps (which will finally change in the upcoming update)
Edit: typo
There’s a difference between promoting solo play, such as fair dueling, and promoting 1vX. They’re aggressively trying to nerf the ability to do the latter, which is very unfortunate.
Exactly this. ZoS never really done much to help people solo vs groups. On the contrary, most changes were always to give advantage to the bigger group. But they did, with many changes, helped to promote the solo play of not having to have friends or be part of guild/group to successfully PVP.
That requires people to have effective defense and offense. Having healing based of damage is critical part of that.
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »To promote solo play. Not everyone wants to run with healers. Your suggestions only help to empower ppl who crutch on group support or zerging. For solo play to be possible, characters have to be able to heal and also deal sufficient damage. I don’t see the point of separating it other than to unnecessarily make the game more inaccessible and cumbersome.
This rule set applies to everyone and accommodates solo solo play alongside group play.
Are you sure ZOS is promoting solo play? Their history of significant changes, which slammed solo players, suggests otherwise:
- Dynamic Ult removal
- Morrowind sustain nerfs
- Attack from stealth nerf
- AOE caps (which will finally change in the upcoming update)
Edit: typo
There’s a difference between promoting solo play, such as fair dueling, and promoting 1vX. They’re aggressively trying to nerf the ability to do the latter, which is very unfortunate.
Exactly this. ZoS never really done much to help people solo vs groups. On the contrary, most changes were always to give advantage to the bigger group. But they did, with many changes, helped to promote the solo play of not having to have friends or be part of guild/group to successfully PVP.
That requires people to have effective defense and offense. Having healing based of damage is critical part of that.
Interesting perspective. It seems odd to me that effective defense (in this case healing) and offense is so heavily influenced by stacking damage - like, you're getting a 2 for 1 (both damage and healing) by stacking damage. But if you stack healing, you're ONLY getting healing.
Let's take a look at this example build:
5 pc Seventh Legion
5 pc Clever Alchemist
2 pc Bloodspawn
I don't understand why this build should ALSO get strong heals on top of excellent defense and excellent damage. Why should I be rewarded so much healing by stacking damage?
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »To promote solo play. Not everyone wants to run with healers. Your suggestions only help to empower ppl who crutch on group support or zerging. For solo play to be possible, characters have to be able to heal and also deal sufficient damage. I don’t see the point of separating it other than to unnecessarily make the game more inaccessible and cumbersome.
This rule set applies to everyone and accommodates solo solo play alongside group play.
Are you sure ZOS is promoting solo play? Their history of significant changes, which slammed solo players, suggests otherwise:
- Dynamic Ult removal
- Morrowind sustain nerfs
- Attack from stealth nerf
- AOE caps (which will finally change in the upcoming update)
Edit: typo
There’s a difference between promoting solo play, such as fair dueling, and promoting 1vX. They’re aggressively trying to nerf the ability to do the latter, which is very unfortunate.
Exactly this. ZoS never really done much to help people solo vs groups. On the contrary, most changes were always to give advantage to the bigger group. But they did, with many changes, helped to promote the solo play of not having to have friends or be part of guild/group to successfully PVP.
That requires people to have effective defense and offense. Having healing based of damage is critical part of that.
Interesting perspective. It seems odd to me that effective defense (in this case healing) and offense is so heavily influenced by stacking damage - like, you're getting a 2 for 1 (both damage and healing) by stacking damage. But if you stack healing, you're ONLY getting healing.
Let's take a look at this example build:
5 pc Seventh Legion
5 pc Clever Alchemist
2 pc Bloodspawn
I don't understand why this build should ALSO get strong heals on top of excellent defense and excellent damage. Why should I be rewarded so much healing by stacking damage?
You are just confusing things now. If defense (healing) in this game was not related to offense (weapon damage for example), there would be different stat for healing that would make the same exact build perform the same exact way, because that is the desired balance.
What you see as a problem is the desired way to allow players function. You could talk for hours about how healing is slightly overtuned in this game and you would be right, but one thing will simply never change. People will always have good healing and good damage. No matter how much stuff would change.
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »To promote solo play. Not everyone wants to run with healers. Your suggestions only help to empower ppl who crutch on group support or zerging. For solo play to be possible, characters have to be able to heal and also deal sufficient damage. I don’t see the point of separating it other than to unnecessarily make the game more inaccessible and cumbersome.
This rule set applies to everyone and accommodates solo solo play alongside group play.
Are you sure ZOS is promoting solo play? Their history of significant changes, which slammed solo players, suggests otherwise:
- Dynamic Ult removal
- Morrowind sustain nerfs
- Attack from stealth nerf
- AOE caps (which will finally change in the upcoming update)
Edit: typo
There’s a difference between promoting solo play, such as fair dueling, and promoting 1vX. They’re aggressively trying to nerf the ability to do the latter, which is very unfortunate.
Exactly this. ZoS never really done much to help people solo vs groups. On the contrary, most changes were always to give advantage to the bigger group. But they did, with many changes, helped to promote the solo play of not having to have friends or be part of guild/group to successfully PVP.
That requires people to have effective defense and offense. Having healing based of damage is critical part of that.
Interesting perspective. It seems odd to me that effective defense (in this case healing) and offense is so heavily influenced by stacking damage - like, you're getting a 2 for 1 (both damage and healing) by stacking damage. But if you stack healing, you're ONLY getting healing.
Let's take a look at this example build:
5 pc Seventh Legion
5 pc Clever Alchemist
2 pc Bloodspawn
I don't understand why this build should ALSO get strong heals on top of excellent defense and excellent damage. Why should I be rewarded so much healing by stacking damage?
You are just confusing things now. If defense (healing) in this game was not related to offense (weapon damage for example), there would be different stat for healing that would make the same exact build perform the same exact way, because that is the desired balance.
What you see as a problem is the desired way to allow players function. You could talk for hours about how healing is slightly overtuned in this game and you would be right, but one thing will simply never change. People will always have good healing and good damage. No matter how much stuff would change.
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
Are you sure ZOS is promoting solo play? Their history of significant changes, which slammed solo players, suggests otherwise:
- Dynamic Ult removal
- Morrowind sustain nerfs
- Attack from stealth nerf
- AOE caps (which will finally change in the upcoming update)
Edit: typo
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »To promote solo play. Not everyone wants to run with healers. Your suggestions only help to empower ppl who crutch on group support or zerging. For solo play to be possible, characters have to be able to heal and also deal sufficient damage. I don’t see the point of separating it other than to unnecessarily make the game more inaccessible and cumbersome.
This rule set applies to everyone and accommodates solo solo play alongside group play.
Are you sure ZOS is promoting solo play? Their history of significant changes, which slammed solo players, suggests otherwise:
- Dynamic Ult removal
- Morrowind sustain nerfs
- Attack from stealth nerf
- AOE caps (which will finally change in the upcoming update)
Edit: typo
There’s a difference between promoting solo play, such as fair dueling, and promoting 1vX. They’re aggressively trying to nerf the ability to do the latter, which is very unfortunate.
Exactly this. ZoS never really done much to help people solo vs groups. On the contrary, most changes were always to give advantage to the bigger group. But they did, with many changes, helped to promote the solo play of not having to have friends or be part of guild/group to successfully PVP.
That requires people to have effective defense and offense. Having healing based of damage is critical part of that.
Interesting perspective. It seems odd to me that effective defense (in this case healing) and offense is so heavily influenced by stacking damage - like, you're getting a 2 for 1 (both damage and healing) by stacking damage. But if you stack healing, you're ONLY getting healing.
Let's take a look at this example build:
5 pc Seventh Legion
5 pc Clever Alchemist
2 pc Bloodspawn
I don't understand why this build should ALSO get strong heals on top of excellent defense and excellent damage. Why should I be rewarded so much healing by stacking damage?
You are just confusing things now. If defense (healing) in this game was not related to offense (weapon damage for example), there would be different stat for healing that would make the same exact build perform the same exact way, because that is the desired balance.
What you see as a problem is the desired way to allow players function. You could talk for hours about how healing is slightly overtuned in this game and you would be right, but one thing will simply never change. People will always have good healing and good damage. No matter how much stuff would change.
When you say different "stat" for healing what do you mean?
I'm curious why the game is designed to having healing scale on damage when there are categories specifically for healing (Healing Done, Healing Received, Healing Taken).
Wouldn't it make sense to have those healing categories (Healing Done, Healing Received, Healing Taken) control healing, instead of damage?
In the example with this build:
5 pc Seventh Legion
5 pc Clever Alchemist
2 pc Bloodspawn
Why should this build be able to have resistance, damage AND healing? But if I use sets with those healing categories (Healing Done, Healing Received, Healing Taken) I only get more healing that isn't nearly as valuable as damage.
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »To promote solo play. Not everyone wants to run with healers. Your suggestions only help to empower ppl who crutch on group support or zerging. For solo play to be possible, characters have to be able to heal and also deal sufficient damage. I don’t see the point of separating it other than to unnecessarily make the game more inaccessible and cumbersome.
This rule set applies to everyone and accommodates solo solo play alongside group play.
Are you sure ZOS is promoting solo play? Their history of significant changes, which slammed solo players, suggests otherwise:
- Dynamic Ult removal
- Morrowind sustain nerfs
- Attack from stealth nerf
- AOE caps (which will finally change in the upcoming update)
Edit: typo
There’s a difference between promoting solo play, such as fair dueling, and promoting 1vX. They’re aggressively trying to nerf the ability to do the latter, which is very unfortunate.
Exactly this. ZoS never really done much to help people solo vs groups. On the contrary, most changes were always to give advantage to the bigger group. But they did, with many changes, helped to promote the solo play of not having to have friends or be part of guild/group to successfully PVP.
That requires people to have effective defense and offense. Having healing based of damage is critical part of that.
Interesting perspective. It seems odd to me that effective defense (in this case healing) and offense is so heavily influenced by stacking damage - like, you're getting a 2 for 1 (both damage and healing) by stacking damage. But if you stack healing, you're ONLY getting healing.
Let's take a look at this example build:
5 pc Seventh Legion
5 pc Clever Alchemist
2 pc Bloodspawn
I don't understand why this build should ALSO get strong heals on top of excellent defense and excellent damage. Why should I be rewarded so much healing by stacking damage?
GrumpyDuckling wrote: ». Wouldn't it be better for game play if players had to choose between damage and healing?
To promote solo play. Not everyone wants to run with healers. Your suggestions only help to empower ppl who crutch on group support or zerging. For solo play to be possible, characters have to be able to heal and also deal sufficient damage. I don’t see the point of separating it other than to unnecessarily make the game more inaccessible and cumbersome.
This rule set applies to everyone and accommodates solo solo play alongside group play.
montiferus wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: ». Wouldn't it be better for game play if players had to choose between damage and healing?
No it wouldn’t. Solo / small scale players have it hard enough as it is.
I’m curious how large are the groups you run with in PVP?
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »To promote solo play. Not everyone wants to run with healers. Your suggestions only help to empower ppl who crutch on group support or zerging. For solo play to be possible, characters have to be able to heal and also deal sufficient damage. I don’t see the point of separating it other than to unnecessarily make the game more inaccessible and cumbersome.
This rule set applies to everyone and accommodates solo solo play alongside group play.
Are you sure ZOS is promoting solo play? Their history of significant changes, which slammed solo players, suggests otherwise:
- Dynamic Ult removal
- Morrowind sustain nerfs
- Attack from stealth nerf
- AOE caps (which will finally change in the upcoming update)
Edit: typo
There’s a difference between promoting solo play, such as fair dueling, and promoting 1vX. They’re aggressively trying to nerf the ability to do the latter, which is very unfortunate.
Exactly this. ZoS never really done much to help people solo vs groups. On the contrary, most changes were always to give advantage to the bigger group. But they did, with many changes, helped to promote the solo play of not having to have friends or be part of guild/group to successfully PVP.
That requires people to have effective defense and offense. Having healing based of damage is critical part of that.
Interesting perspective. It seems odd to me that effective defense (in this case healing) and offense is so heavily influenced by stacking damage - like, you're getting a 2 for 1 (both damage and healing) by stacking damage. But if you stack healing, you're ONLY getting healing.
Let's take a look at this example build:
5 pc Seventh Legion
5 pc Clever Alchemist
2 pc Bloodspawn
I don't understand why this build should ALSO get strong heals on top of excellent defense and excellent damage. Why should I be rewarded so much healing by stacking damage?
You are just confusing things now. If defense (healing) in this game was not related to offense (weapon damage for example), there would be different stat for healing that would make the same exact build perform the same exact way, because that is the desired balance.
What you see as a problem is the desired way to allow players function. You could talk for hours about how healing is slightly overtuned in this game and you would be right, but one thing will simply never change. People will always have good healing and good damage. No matter how much stuff would change.
When you say different "stat" for healing what do you mean?
I'm curious why the game is designed to having healing scale on damage when there are categories specifically for healing (Healing Done, Healing Received, Healing Taken).
Wouldn't it make sense to have those healing categories (Healing Done, Healing Received, Healing Taken) control healing, instead of damage?
In the example with this build:
5 pc Seventh Legion
5 pc Clever Alchemist
2 pc Bloodspawn
Why should this build be able to have resistance, damage AND healing? But if I use sets with those healing categories (Healing Done, Healing Received, Healing Taken) I only get more healing that isn't nearly as valuable as damage.
Again, you are totally confusing things. Healing Done/Received are nothing more than buffs like Berserk or Maim are. There are only 2 stats that contribute to tooltip value. Resource + Power/Damage. Every healing in this game is calculated from these two things and the value (scaling factor) is balanced with this in mind. And since healing is at the desired level, there are only 2 possibilites how to get damage out of this the way you want. Either by making healing scale only with resource or, as idk mentioned, create "Healing Power' stat. In any case, the game would be balanced in a way that would make the final healing as big as it is now.