Why is impen so useful in PvP I mean Won't it lower your dps

bloodthirstyvampire

Like Wouldn't divines be more useful for your dps

DRXHarbinger

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Impen sucks. Google any of my 8000 posts as to why.

~3200 actually.
Can you clarify a bit more please?

He's just a believer that reducing your average damage by 12.5% (more than minor protection) or more isn't worth his trait slots.

Quick and dirty maths:

50% base crit multiplier (Can be boosted by shadow or force)
Average crit % ~50% (Lowballing severely)

Average damage increase per burst with crits = ~25%
Mitigation from 7 pc impen = 50% crit resist.
Damage mitigation (overall) from impen = ~12.5% (better than minor protection) (This number improves against very high critical opponents, such as nightblades, it also improves when you count guaranteed crits from night-blades and crit charge)

This reduction is increased when you have a multi-crit combo hit you. (Crit Charge > Crit Incap > Crit Wreaking Blow > Crit Reverse Slice)

Pretty much. I prefer to have max damage/healing and would rather mitigate the overall damage via armor than the burst that only happens sometimes.

I've played this game for too many thousands of hours without it for me to say it's necessary. Sure, it helps and it's good for beginners but if you're a serious PvPer there are other things you can focus on without just dying all the time. Burst healing and shields > impen.

Same here. And to be honest this gets a lot of hate and rejection but I've run TBS on my sorc in pvp for a very very long time. Running full light and divines you can truly melt the tankiest of players. Sure you get CAN get killed quickly but I have an enormous shield and magika pool coupled with streak I don't see the need for impending and never will on a mag toon.

Plus long ass fights with people are pretty dull. If I die big deal...rez and a few secs later I'm back at it. Never ever seen the need for impen. Shadow mundus is the true counter for impen wearing enemies.

Everstorm

It also lowers incoming dps. Critbuilds can do a lot of damage.

ParaNostram

It keeps you from just dying to the first crit you take. Can't do DPS when you're dead.

DMuehlhausen

Anything that stops you from being critted is always good for PvP. Specially when burst damage is what you are looking for.

SwaminoNowlino

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

Like Wouldn't divines be more useful for your dps

Quick and easy answer is you can't do damage if your dead. This is what a lot of the "super high" dps guys don't realize when they actually get in trials and can't complete the content. It doesn't matter what your DPS is if you aren't alive to apply it.

Impen significantly increases your ability to survive by mitigating potential incoming burst. Its the difference between a 16k dark flare and a 10k one.

klowdy1

PvP is about outlasting your opponent. If you take 3 crits in a row, you'll probably end up dead. The meta for DDs is impen with multiple proc sets to make up for the loss of ststs. Even if you use divine with crit, others with impen will negate most of that. It's all about burst and survival, not necessarily dps.

Zaldan

your dps is zero if you're dead

Jamini

The answer is really simple:

1. Taunts do not work in PvP. Ergo tanks are mostly useless as damage sponges and instead roll as disruptors and "durable burst" builds.
2. Most damage players (The Pampered Majority) have excessive amounts of burst, part of which is achieved with high critical ratings. When a sorc lands his combo you are looking at 3-4 abilities hitting in a row due to stuns and delays (and endless fury delayed second hit). A full combo from anyone hurts, but if they are getting 150% damage on all of those attacks because RNGESUS favorted them... Well you basically die instantly.
3. A dead player deals no damage. Impen is a very cheap way to avoid taking extra that extra damage from criticals. Ergo, many PvP players that don't want to instantly squish run Impen. Impen cuts that damage down to a manageable level.
4. Healtank/DPS duos can sometimes get away with it with clever use of Stalwart Guard. (30% damage reduction for the DPS, plus minor force. It's a shame that Guard has to built around as it must be double-barred to be effective)

Even with that, Impen is not the only trait run in PvP. Magsorcs can get away with no impen due to their ridiculously strong shields and can run divines. The new Impregnable Set users, Crit resistance CP, and tank builds often use sturdy for the bock boost. Rollbuilds that use sets like Senche's Bite, Way of Air, and Eternal Hunt often incorporate well-fitted. Glass-cannon nightblades that rely on instapopping their enemies without any chance for the target to react tend to use divines.

That said, for the majority of players in Cyrodiil, Battlegrounds and Duels Impen gives the most bang for your trait's buck in the defensive area. Now, it might be a different story if taunts reduced the damage that a player dealt to anyone but the taunter (without the horrible slap in the face that is the vanguard's challenge set. That set is so garbage that it deconstructs itself before it enters my inventory and then the materials apologize for how bad they've been.)

Flameheart

Without a certain quantitiy of crit immunity in PvP you are just like a balloon waiting for the needle.

GeorgeBlack

Because PvP is all about:
DEFENCE: minimum DPS stats/Maximum sustain stats + Shuffle no matter your build
ATTACK: Proc dmg, Animation Cancelling Burst.

Double post.

Kurkikohtaus

Tongue in Cheek here, but if everybody is wearing impenetrable for the reasons stated above, then no one is really focusing on crit, right? So then what is the point of wearing impenetrable?

DeadlyRecluse

1. Do damage.
2. Don't die.

Impen is generally more efficient at the second goal than divines is at the first.

Asardes

BTW Impenetrable is mostly useless in PvE since NPCs and various other game mechanics can't land critical hits. Only players can critically hit. I said "mostly" because Impenetrable can still be useful if you are grinding a lot or dying very often. It reduces the damage to your gear from normal combat wear and tear and deaths. In PvP that is not an issue since there is no damage to your gear if you die to a player. And even for builds that use shields impenetrable is still the best, because shields will get depleted pretty fast during intense combat - their value is halved compare do PvE so you are looking at 6-8K shields realistically, maybe 10-12K if you are stacking 2 of them.

FlyLionel

Without crit resist you're basically like a PVE mob, eating crit damage and getting dropped. It's important yo.

ofSunhold

Jamini wrote: »

Now, it might be a different story if taunts reduced the damage that a player dealt to anyone but the taunter (without the horrible slap in the face that is the vanguard's challenge set. That set is so garbage that it deconstructs itself before it enters my inventory and then the materials apologize for how bad they've been.)

Hahahaha

BigBragg

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Tongue in Cheek here, but if everybody is wearing impenetrable for the reasons stated above, then no one is really focusing on crit, right? So then what is the point of wearing impenetrable?

Crit happens.

SilverWF

I like running full Impen and Transmutation at the back bar at my mages.

the_man_of_steal

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

Like Wouldn't divines be more useful for your dps

cant dps if ur dead

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Impen sucks. Google any of my 8000 posts as to why.

Kay1

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Impen sucks. Google any of my 8000 posts as to why.

Nooo, shut up, is the best trait guys

Miruku

The reason you use impen is because when stuff crits it hits hard and reducing that damage is essential for PVP taking less damage and building for sustain and getting a beefy stat sheet etc from sets. You dont need mass damage in PVP you just need to patient and you will kill stuff its not all about DPS.

Also divines is useless if you use any of the none damage mundus stones like Serpent Atro Ritual etc.

SilverWF

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Impen sucks. Google any of my 8000 posts as to why.

~3200 actually.
Can you clarify a bit more please?

Beardimus

As everyone says. If you wanna avoid Crits, you need impen. Base Crit is 50% more damage, NB 60%, add trap or combat prayer etc 70/80% is possible. Even with a moderate Crit build you don't wanna be hit by that too often.

What class / build are you, as if Light Armour build you have wards and can lower Impen levels.

Best thing to do is try it. Of you can Run divines do it, if you die lots, you will know

Potenza

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Tongue in Cheek here, but if everybody is wearing impenetrable for the reasons stated above, then no one is really focusing on crit, right? So then what is the point of wearing impenetrable?

You can run all impen and still have a high crit chance - critical hits happen all the time - you need impen if you want to survive.

Joy_Division

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Tongue in Cheek here, but if everybody is wearing impenetrable for the reasons stated above, then no one is really focusing on crit, right? So then what is the point of wearing impenetrable?

People do focus on crit because it's still strong (impen mitigates it, not removes it) and crit heals are really good.

Jamini

SilverWF wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Impen sucks. Google any of my 8000 posts as to why.

~3200 actually.
Can you clarify a bit more please?

He's just a believer that reducing your average damage by 12.5% (more than minor protection) or more isn't worth his trait slots.

Quick and dirty maths:

50% base crit multiplier (Can be boosted by shadow or force)
Average crit % ~50% (Lowballing severely)

Average damage increase per burst with crits = ~25%
Mitigation from 7 pc impen = 50% crit resist.
Damage mitigation (overall) from impen = ~12.5% (better than minor protection) (This number improves against very high critical opponents, such as nightblades, it also improves when you count guaranteed crits from night-blades and crit charge)

This reduction is increased when you have a multi-crit combo hit you. (Crit Charge > Crit Incap > Crit Wreaking Blow > Crit Reverse Slice)

Asardes

I only run 5M+ (stamina) or 5L/1M/1H (magicka) so I need full Impenetrable (around 1.8K resistance) to survive. Even if shields can't be critted the damage that passes trough them can and some of the attacks do hit like a truck.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Jamini wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Impen sucks. Google any of my 8000 posts as to why.

~3200 actually.
Can you clarify a bit more please?

He's just a believer that reducing your average damage by 12.5% (more than minor protection) or more isn't worth his trait slots.

Quick and dirty maths:

50% base crit multiplier (Can be boosted by shadow or force)
Average crit % ~50% (Lowballing severely)

Average damage increase per burst with crits = ~25%
Mitigation from 7 pc impen = 50% crit resist.
Damage mitigation (overall) from impen = ~12.5% (better than minor protection) (This number improves against very high critical opponents, such as nightblades, it also improves when you count guaranteed crits from night-blades and crit charge)

This reduction is increased when you have a multi-crit combo hit you. (Crit Charge > Crit Incap > Crit Wreaking Blow > Crit Reverse Slice)

Pretty much. I prefer to have max damage/healing and would rather mitigate the overall damage via armor than the burst that only happens sometimes.

I've played this game for too many thousands of hours without it for me to say it's necessary. Sure, it helps and it's good for beginners but if you're a serious PvPer there are other things you can focus on without just dying all the time. Burst healing and shields > impen.

KingJ

SilverWF wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Impen sucks. Google any of my 8000 posts as to why.

~3200 actually.
Can you clarify a bit more please?

Please don't get him started.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

KingJ wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Impen sucks. Google any of my 8000 posts as to why.

~3200 actually.
Can you clarify a bit more please?

Please don't get him started.

Haha ... I'm honestly trying to not get started.

SilverWF

Dunno, I'm wearing full Impen Light armor on my mag NB and Transmuation set on back bar (not a bomber ).
All of it provides me with ~39% crit res, without any CP invested to anticrit passive.
As for me - this is huge bonus. And since I have bigger ping than average european (and netcode of the game is garbage), so I prefer run more defensive.