[Community improvement] Should OPTIONAL dual-language display be introduced?

Yadvo

I, probably like the most of you, have learned english through playing games. Why not step up the game? Imagine the possibilities if we were able to use both english and german/french subtitles in conversations with NPCs or item describtions. It would be AWESOME if ZOS implemented support for multpile languages in interface. The perfect solution would be to introduce dual-language system. After enabling the relevant option in the settings menu, whenever you would mouse over an item, two windows with the description would show up (instead of standard one). You could chose which versions to compare.

The language barrier has always been a trouble in Europe for successful competitive play. It would not just be a "cosmetic" change. It would improve overall gaming experience for all those that have trouble socializing with english speaking players. I often come across players with only basic understaing of the language, especially russians (not a hater, just saying).

That could have long term, positive effect on the entire community. Thats why I would love to hear what ZOS has to say about it. Doesnt seem like much of an efforrt would be needed to acomplish this.

ZENIMAX PLS DO THIS

MarbleQuiche

Yes.

Now sure about the dual-tooltips, but it'd be great if you could set audio and text to different languages. I doubt it'll ever happen, but as a lover of languages who'll often turn my sat nav to some random language (fun while driving!), I can only approve.

Turelus

Yes.

Sure why not? I mean it might end up being too much investment for the devs but worth looking into.

Dracindo

No.

I honestly think doing so will tell the players that it's alright to speak French and German in public chatrooms, and I don't want that. I could block those chats, but at the same time, I'd love to help out an aspiring werewolf by biting him, or give a guy his Price Check, or simply answer a question.

Based on that, I'd say no. I'd rather have the game split up in languages, rather than regions.
So no longer PC NA and EU, but PC EN, GE, and FR, but I don't see that happen any time soon.

Yadvo

Yes.

Dracindo wrote: »

I honestly think doing so will tell the players that it's alright to speak French and German in public chatrooms, and I don't want that. I could block those chats, but at the same time, I'd love to help out an aspiring werewolf by biting him, or give a guy his Price Check, or simply answer a question.

Based on that, I'd say no. I'd rather have the game split up in languages, rather than regions.
So no longer PC NA and EU, but PC EN, GE, and FR, but I don't see that happen any time soon.

What does item tooltip diplay has to do with public chatrooms? Please explain, as it seems you have missed the point.

Enslaved

No.

No. Because my native language would not be included, and I don't want to use ESO as learning tool for other languages.

Yadvo

Yes.

Enslaved wrote: »

No. Because my native language would not be included, and I don't want to use ESO as learning tool for other languages.

Would you kindly explain why is it a problem for you if this option could be enabled/disabled at any time? You would just not use it, that is all. The rest of us could enjoy some free language lessons.

Kaliki

I don't see the advantage of displaying two languages.
If you want to learn a language simply play in that language and look up words whenever you have trouble understanding something.

This dual display and the ability to compare translations might even be confusing. Depending on the decisions of the translators jokes, puns or cultural references might be semantically different than the English original. The goal of a localization is to be enjoyable to read and not to be a literal rendering of the source text, so its usefulness as a learning aid might be limited.

Edit: I didn't think of the case where you would usually play in German but needed the English to participate in Trials for example.
My bad for not reading the OP more attentively.
In this case I fully agree that it would help players.

RoyJade

Yes.

Dracindo wrote: »

I honestly think doing so will tell the players that it's alright to speak French and German in public chatrooms, and I don't want that. I could block those chats, but at the same time, I'd love to help out an aspiring werewolf by biting him, or give a guy his Price Check, or simply answer a question.

Based on that, I'd say no. I'd rather have the game split up in languages, rather than regions.
So no longer PC NA and EU, but PC EN, GE, and FR, but I don't see that happen any time soon.

"Public" chatroom is not "english" chatroom. English is the most common language, and so most of the conversation in the public chatroom is in english. But that doesn't prevent French, Deutsch and other peoples (Turkish and Russian are the most found it seem) to sometimes speaks in their own languages.


But back to the topic. I think the idea is really good, but I think it would be easier if the written languages were switched with a key touch, at least for tooltips.
Cyrodiil keeps, world bosses, dungeons, raids and other group content also need to have both names, in order to help players coordination betweens languages. Even for those who speaks two or three languages, theses names aren't alway exact translation, and can be hard to translate.

Yadvo

Yes.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , anyone?

RoyJade wrote: »

Dracindo wrote: »

I honestly think doing so will tell the players that it's alright to speak French and German in public chatrooms, and I don't want that. I could block those chats, but at the same time, I'd love to help out an aspiring werewolf by biting him, or give a guy his Price Check, or simply answer a question.

Based on that, I'd say no. I'd rather have the game split up in languages, rather than regions.
So no longer PC NA and EU, but PC EN, GE, and FR, but I don't see that happen any time soon.

"Public" chatroom is not "english" chatroom. English is the most common language, and so most of the conversation in the public chatroom is in english. But that doesn't prevent French, Deutsch and other peoples (Turkish and Russian are the most found it seem) to sometimes speaks in their own languages.


But back to the topic. I think the idea is really good, but I think it would be easier if the written languages were switched with a key touch, at least for tooltips.
Cyrodiil keeps, world bosses, dungeons, raids and other group content also need to have both names, in order to help players coordination betweens languages. Even for those who speaks two or three languages, theses names aren't alway exact translation, and can be hard to translate.

Thanks. I also think it would be easy to implement, as the language packs already exist. Dont think it would take much coding to add a separate/larger window in which both languages would be displayed!

Dracindo

No.

To further explain myself: If there was a Dutch option, and I switch to Dutch, I'll speak in Dutch as well. Many people won't understand me, and I won't understand many other people.

I think it's common courtesy to speak English in most chat, and showing the game in different languages would let people feel comfortable using their own language to their hearts content. I can't stress more over a guy that PM's me in another language, when I asked for something (group up, selling something, etc...).

It's like my French teachers told us: only speak French in my class. Why? Because if you're in a fully French environment, you'll be quicker to learn it. But that's not what we want in an MMO, we need everyone to understand each other. So, keep it all English, and people are more likely to speak English. Except for the lazy and disrespectful guys who'll talk in whatever language they want.

Dracindo

No.

Also, unless they turn it into an open-source project, where everyone can freely help translating, they shouldn't waste time on this, really.

Yadvo

Yes.

Dracindo wrote: »

To further explain myself: If there was a Dutch option, and I switch to Dutch, I'll speak in Dutch as well. Many people won't understand me, and I won't understand many other people.

I think it's common courtesy to speak English in most chat, and showing the game in different languages would let people feel comfortable using their own language to their hearts content. I can't stress more over a guy that PM's me in another language, when I asked for something (group up, selling something, etc...).

It's like my French teachers told us: only speak French in my class. Why? Because if you're in a fully French environment, you'll be quicker to learn it. But that's not what we want in an MMO, we need everyone to understand each other. So, keep it all English, and people are more likely to speak English. Except for the lazy and disrespectful guys who'll talk in whatever language they want.

Did you take into consideration the fact that people talk to you in other language EXACTLY because they do not know how to refer to an item/quest/location coz their knowledge of English is pretty narrow? Imagine if they had this frame of reference, how much easier it would be for them to talk to you?

Besides, I think you completely miss the point here. It is not about introducing a barrier, but the opposite! This solution is meant to reduce the number of whispers in languages other than English, as pepople will learn it faster.

Dracindo

No.

I know you're not trying to create a barrier here, but I fear that is exactly what's going to happen.

Honestly, spend one year on the internet and play games in english, and you should be able to understand most of it. And if that doesn't work, there's Duolingo. Just take a moment every day to practice, english isn't that hard to learn, really.

I'm sure you can also easily look up what every item does exactly in every language online. If you know how to use Google translate or simply translate the site, it may not be perfectly translated, but I'm sure anyone who can think will be able to understand it out of context.

To put it shortly, the internet is the best cheat sheet. Learn how to use it.

RoyJade

Yes.

Dracindo wrote: »

I think it's common courtesy to speak English in most chat

I agree, but I think you missed a point : actually, the game has three official languages : english, french and deutsch (perhaps japanese also, I don't know). Those who play in french or deutsch may be good in english and speak english in zone chat (as most of the french/deutsch peoples I know do), but they have the french or deutsch names on skills, buffs, debuffs, world bosses, dungeons, cyrodiil keeps and so on. These names are sometimes easy to translate, but most of the time the translation is not literal, so finding the real name is hard. The idea of this topic is to give people both in order to help communication.
Example : if I take the name "tressefuseau", nearly nobody will understand the name even if they're french, unless they have the game in french. The english name is "spindlelutch", and nearly none of the french players I know understand this name. Crypt of hearth is easy to translate, arx corinium too, but spindle is not. Same for "blue road keep", (sente-azur) or nearly every world bosses. By giving both name to every non-english players, you give them the ability to use the english name without needing to put all their games in english.

Yadvo

Yes.

Im actually speachless about the number of people saying no to a thing that would be optional. I do not understand the reasoning aginst the non-impactive game settings that can be easly turned off.

Ylmir

In order to learn the names of the various locations in English I used to switch my UI's language using an addon. Cyrodiil keeps especially were confusing at first.

I think the best way to handle the problem, since it's mainly about quest/dungeons/keeps/items names (at least in my opinion), would be to introduce a feature that makes it possible to see the "international" name of something, without having to rely on an addon that needs to reload your UI in order to change the language. It would help communication with people that play the game in another language. I don't really see the need for more (quest descriptions, books, NPcs...), but maybe it's because I'm not seeing the game as a learning tool for English.

On the other hand, I don't really see how to integrate it ingame, in terms of functionality and ergonomy - since the item tooltips, are sometimes too big to fit on my screen (when looking at jewellery mainly), I'm not sure adding more to these would be a great idea. It can be done much more easily for the worldmap though.

Yadvo

Yes.

Ylmir wrote: »

In order to learn the names of the various locations in English I used to switch my UI's language using an addon. Cyrodiil keeps especially were confusing at first.

I think the best way to handle the problem, since it's mainly about quest/dungeons/keeps/items names (at least in my opinion), would be to introduce a feature that makes it possible to see the "international" name of something, without having to rely on an addon that needs to reload your UI in order to change the language. It would help communication with people that play the game in another language. I don't really see the need for more (quest descriptions, books, NPcs...), but maybe it's because I'm not seeing the game as a learning tool for English.

On the other hand, I don't really see how to integrate it ingame, in terms of functionality and ergonomy - since the item tooltips, are sometimes too big to fit on my screen (when looking at jewellery mainly), I'm not sure adding more to these would be a great idea. It can be done much more easily for the worldmap though.

Keep the current window intact and add a button "change to FR/DE etc"?

RoyJade

Yes.

Yadvo wrote: »

Keep the current window intact and add a button "change to FR/DE etc"?

Yep, I think it'll be the best idea for skills and stuff tooltips. Of course, it also need to be keybinded.

Enslaved

No.

Yadvo wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

No. Because my native language would not be included, and I don't want to use ESO as learning tool for other languages.

Would you kindly explain why is it a problem for you if this option could be enabled/disabled at any time? You would just not use it, that is all. The rest of us could enjoy some free language lessons.

I guess I am a jerk.

Saturnana

Yes.

I don't see why not.
Also, if I could FINALLY get my German to a decent level this way, my high school teacher would be so proud.
In all my years after graduation, I never got much further than Wie geht es dir? :P

(And yes, that would probably be the only reason for me to turn on dual German or French)

Elloa

Dracindo wrote: »

I honestly think doing so will tell the players that it's alright to speak French and German in public chatrooms, and I don't want that. I could block those chats, but at the same time, I'd love to help out an aspiring werewolf by biting him, or give a guy his Price Check, or simply answer a question.

Based on that, I'd say no. I'd rather have the game split up in languages, rather than regions.
So no longer PC NA and EU, but PC EN, GE, and FR, but I don't see that happen any time soon.

We need to be more inclusive, always. Always find ways to be more open, more welcoming towards everyone. I believe that this is how Humanity as whole need to evolve, and videos games are not an exception to that.It's an excellent laboratory of how to build, and experiment a better society where all humans are equally respected and taken care off.

Balsagna

No.

Nothing is free, in some way we (all) will pay for the language lessons you want in some capacity.

Riptide

Yes.

It just isn't that heavy a lift programatically. Please add it.

Dracindo

No.

Elloa wrote: »

Dracindo wrote: »

I honestly think doing so will tell the players that it's alright to speak French and German in public chatrooms, and I don't want that. I could block those chats, but at the same time, I'd love to help out an aspiring werewolf by biting him, or give a guy his Price Check, or simply answer a question.

Based on that, I'd say no. I'd rather have the game split up in languages, rather than regions.
So no longer PC NA and EU, but PC EN, GE, and FR, but I don't see that happen any time soon.

We need to be more inclusive, always. Always find ways to be more open, more welcoming towards everyone. I believe that this is how Humanity as whole need to evolve, and videos games are not an exception to that.It's an excellent laboratory of how to build, and experiment a better society where all humans are equally respected and taken care off.

My main minecraft server did that, and ever since the chat was being spammed with 'EU BR?' and 'KKKKKKK'. Now, minecraft doesn't have a proper chat filter like ESO, but if you have questions, ask them in English or use the internet. The internet is your best friend.

Sorry for being a Dunmer here

IcyDeadPeople

Yes.

Yes, why not? Although might be simpler to do this via add on.

Dracindo wrote: »

I honestly think doing so will tell the players that it's alright to speak French and German in public chatrooms, and I don't want that. I could block those chats, but at the same time, I'd love to help out an aspiring werewolf by biting him, or give a guy his Price Check, or simply answer a question.

Based on that, I'd say no. I'd rather have the game split up in languages, rather than regions.
So no longer PC NA and EU, but PC EN, GE, and FR, but I don't see that happen any time soon.

OP is not talking about changing the primary zone chat. He's talking about adding a convenience for people who want to practice and improve their English (or French, German or Japanese) from reading quest dialogue and user interface.

If you want more people using English in your dungeon or whatever, it will help them if they are able to use English UI and learn what certain ESO items or features are called in English.

Saturnana

Yes.

Dracindo wrote: »

Elloa wrote: »

Dracindo wrote: »

I honestly think doing so will tell the players that it's alright to speak French and German in public chatrooms, and I don't want that. I could block those chats, but at the same time, I'd love to help out an aspiring werewolf by biting him, or give a guy his Price Check, or simply answer a question.

Based on that, I'd say no. I'd rather have the game split up in languages, rather than regions.
So no longer PC NA and EU, but PC EN, GE, and FR, but I don't see that happen any time soon.

We need to be more inclusive, always. Always find ways to be more open, more welcoming towards everyone. I believe that this is how Humanity as whole need to evolve, and videos games are not an exception to that.It's an excellent laboratory of how to build, and experiment a better society where all humans are equally respected and taken care off.

My main minecraft server did that, and ever since the chat was being spammed with 'EU BR?' and 'KKKKKKK'. Now, minecraft doesn't have a proper chat filter like ESO, but if you have questions, ask them in English or use the internet. The internet is your best friend.

Sorry for being a Dunmer here

B-b-but.. of the 50 internationally recognized sovereign states in Europe, only one has English as their official language. I know that it is the company's (ZoS) language also, but that doesn't make it any less weird to expect others to completely disregard their mother tongue, and to try and make sense in English instead.

Let them chat in whatever language they please. We have continent-wide servers after all, they're not just UK or USA.

Dracindo

No.

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

might be simpler to do this via add on.

This would be approvable.

Yadvo

Yes.

Dracindo wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

might be simpler to do this via add on.

This would be approvable.

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Yes, why not? Although might be simpler to do this via add on.

Dracindo wrote: »

I honestly think doing so will tell the players that it's alright to speak French and German in public chatrooms, and I don't want that. I could block those chats, but at the same time, I'd love to help out an aspiring werewolf by biting him, or give a guy his Price Check, or simply answer a question.

Based on that, I'd say no. I'd rather have the game split up in languages, rather than regions.
So no longer PC NA and EU, but PC EN, GE, and FR, but I don't see that happen any time soon.

OP is not talking about changing the primary zone chat. He's talking about adding a convenience for people who want to practice and improve their English (or French, German or Japanese) from reading quest dialogue and user interface.

If you want more people using English in your dungeon or whatever, it will help them if they are able to use English UI and learn what certain ESO items or features are called in English.

Finally someone who gets it

Onefrkncrzypope

Yes.

#GetTamreal#GlobalVillage jk
I think it would be QoL for nonenglish speakers. If they want to speak to (most likely) the majority of players they would use English. I still see Spanish pop up in chat on PS4 na so the English tool tips doesn't change that. The multi language tooltip would only help those players. No true reason that multinational game only uses one language.

Though name of sets, trials and such should stay the same language to combat a language barrier that could arise due to translation.

Emmagoldman

Yes.

I dont get why the NA server doesnt have spanish.....Geography too stronk!!!

People are against this because of zone chat? Wouldnt want to miss that EVER so important chats of *** jokes, racists rants, wts columbi e 600g each! and people asking how to feed their horse. Really there are options for other languages, so it shouldnt interfere with the glow of desperaye 13 year olds trying to be funny with an audience.

Personally, I speak English, Spanish, and portuguese and would love to have more options and it wouldnt be hard to have more options in zone chat and translation with subtitles.

For anyone practicing a language, subtitles or text in a l2 or l3 is an awesome way to learn. I played the repopulation spin off in spanish to learn