My sweet DPS Warden

Insandros

Greetings guys and gals... I've made a post already on the Warden, how fun i find that class etc... out of context of performance of the class.... so i don't wanna mixt this thread with the other.. as while playign this toon i love so far, one Warden healer toon and one DPS warden toon.... at first i made it to enjoy, but as it went, i started to really like that toon... but as lots says, dps id weak, so my thread is not to discuss about the warden's low dps since there is plenty of other threads for this... but mostly, because i got down the path of trying to make him best at what he can like all my other toons.... i was then surprises to see that since Morrowind, it deals better than my magika sorc which for some reason since patch lost a few good dps, but i haven'T really played around with it and CP realocation as i mostly redistributed as before, but now my trip is my warden....


so to make a long story short... my thread is about trying to find people to do pledges with, since it's supposed to be the worste dps ever in game as magika build, and most of the pledge i do i ended up upper damage % done... even with my friends i even close on so called top dps build and classes, i even now reach my friend NB that was beating me a lot before on my sorc in AoE... so i'm curious to see if any good end-game players that knows what good dps is to actualy group one day in a pledge or anything so i can see versys a good dps what it's like, even though my friends are dealling pretty well and i know it, i just doupt about pugs. I just wanna see how it stands and how far back it is with a good dps end-game player, i know i'm way down since i don'T have any vMA or Moondacers, just good old blue IA jewls...

If anyone interested in trying out a pledge on NA PC server, let me know, either here or PM.... i really love this toon and i'm really curious to see how bad it is in practicle situation, not just on some numbers done on a non-moving skeleton Since most of the dps test i see, uses, pots, elemental drain, ultimates, other players buffing them.. and since my test i never use this, i rather test my raw dmg alone and have the surprise in real situation, so not easy to gauge the same situation as i do, but, in a pledge with someone, might be useful as a simple curiosity....

red_emu

My magicka warden healer feels like a hybrid. Mostly in PvP. Good damage rotation, good heals and even a bit of tankiness. My stamina warden in the other hand feels very lackluster in comparison. They're both around lvl 30 now and I'm leaning more towards magicka after completing a few quite tough dungeons as a healer/DPS (yes I know that you all apparently can solo every vet dungeon asleep using light attack but I play for fun and aesthetics not leader boards).

I think most people try and play the warden like other classes and it doesn't work that way. Magicka Warden is a great hybrid class and with good rotation melts the enemies in PvP and PvE.

Zagnut123Zagnut123

What kinda numbers do you get on it?

red_emu

I have to admit I don't care much for numbers but if my enemy falls quicker than with any other class that's numbers good enough for me. Now you couldn't solo PvP on my non meta heresy build but he's a great wee supporter that one!

Insandros

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

What kinda numbers do you get on it?

@Zagnut123Zagnut123

weak ones, as i said, no spell power pots, no ultimates really, no elemental drains, no ones buff, on dummy i get around 25-27k (more or likely about 900-920k dmg in about 30 seconds), on moving dungeons bosses i usualy finish with 21-22k... i know it's weak but i was expecting it to be way much worste than this from the reading on it being the worste one. as i said, which i could grab a vMA or any moondacer blue or golden rings, but, not happening for me for now, i don't have the patience for vMA lol

Insandros

red_emu wrote: »

My magicka warden healer feels like a hybrid. Mostly in PvP. Good damage rotation, good heals and even a bit of tankiness. My stamina warden in the other hand feels very lackluster in comparison. They're both around lvl 30 now and I'm leaning more towards magicka after completing a few quite tough dungeons as a healer/DPS (yes I know that you all apparently can solo every vet dungeon asleep using light attack but I play for fun and aesthetics not leader boards).

I think most people try and play the warden like other classes and it doesn't work that way. Magicka Warden is a great hybrid class and with good rotation melts the enemies in PvP and PvE.

yeah, i onlu put on my front bar healing vines, and only doing this i end up about 20% total healing that, this with a healer, as a total dps build, it's funny. but i hate hybrids ecept when leveling, once lvled 50, i give each my toons their roles, i'm a old fashioned person, i didn't liked multi-classes in AD&D back then as i don't like hybrids, my healers are healer my dps are dps and my tank is tank, i don't like having all my toons to look alike and dps... i'm an old fart lol

Insandros

red_emu wrote: »

I have to admit I don't care much for numbers but if my enemy falls quicker than with any other class that's numbers good enough for me. Now you couldn't solo PvP on my non meta heresy build but he's a great wee supporter that one!

@red_emu

Yeah, when i created my healer warden and dps, it was to be secondary, just for the fun of it and my templar being my main healer and my sorc main dps, but things turned out i love to play both and so far they end up being my main, and i went down the freaking number trap addiction, i was just more being curious, cuz i love then and mostly only play them both since early-acess, i guess i love being high-elf now aswell lol i love their visuals effect and play style. Thats why i created the other thread, was to keep the dps thing away from the thread, was purely for people that love the class and love playing them and didn't cared about numbers.... but as i said, i got cought in that trap on this toon aswell.... i find it challenging to keep up dps as people say it's crappy and challenging to play as you got to do more stuff to keep up, or as healer, need to be more aware of your friends locations... on my own opinion, a superb class.

s7732425ub17_ESO

I have a CP 630, Undaunted level 9, gold gear, all skills morphed and maxed, Magicka Warden. Using Necro, Moondancer, Grothdar. Sits at 53k magicka without Warhorn. It's completed Vet Trials and most Vet dungeons. It is definitely not as strong as the other magicka classes in terms of long, single target damage fights.

- It has no spammable execute.
- The highest DPS rotation involves using a super expensive magicka spell- Fissure. So in reality, in long, long Vet Trial fights, the DPS will be lower because you won't be using Fissure for single target because you won't be able to sustain.
- You can add Bear ultimate for higher single target, but it's required on both bars, which means you cannot use Meteor or Destro ulti for trash heavy fights. So you have to pick one or the other- highest single target DPS, or good AOE ultimate. Other classes get both- highest single target DPS with the best AOE ultimate.
- None of the class abilities proc any useful debuffs. On my Sorc, I can keep up minor vulnerability (shock damage), BY MYSELF, on the target dummy, for 60-70% of the fight. On Warden, this number drops to <10%.
- Warden does have good AOE dps. Fissure is really, really, really strong. But it's delayed damage, so you can only cast it once every 3 seconds!

On a good rotation, in a longer fight, I can sustain 23k DPS. On my non-pet Sorc, I can usually sustain 28k or higher.

It's strange. The Warden single target spammable (Cliff Racer) is probably the strongest in the game. Yet the overall DPS is still lagging behind other classes. There are still tweaks I can make to the rotation (such as running Guard), but there's still something off about the damage. Maybe once they fix the bugged Winter's AOE skill not getting its damage buffed properly? I dunno.

GilGalad

Magicka Warden is fine. I got 30k+ on the PTS selfbuffed even on the robust skeleton. When I did pledges even with decent DKs I was able to keep up, especially in AOE situations. Deep fissure is so strong, that you can deal really good AOE dmg even with the Bear ultimate, wich deals really good Single target dmg.

Im playing 5 BSW, 4 Moondance (lightning Backbar)r, 2 Grothdarr and a vMA Inferno.
Alternatives would be 3 Willpower and random staffs or 5 BSW (jewels, 2 Body), 5 Julianos (4 Body, Weapons) and one Kena.

Fire Frontbar with Wall of elements and weaves is enough to keep 50%+ BSW uptimes.

Bars are:
Fire: Deep Fissure, Fetcher Infection, Wall of Elements, Cliff Racer, Magelight, Bear/Northern Storm
Lightning: elemental ring/ destructive clench (mostly for staff passive), Ice AOE, Netch, Rearming Trap/Shield/heal, Magelight, Bear/Meteor

Keep up the dots, use deep fissure as often as possible and do. lightning heavy attacks when you struggle with magicka. From my experience the Wardens Sustain is pretty good even with 3 spell dmg glyphs. If you keep the Netch up at all time, you can run standard magicka potions.

red_emu

Let's not forget that this is a new class. It will take a while for it to get tweaked and buffed but it will happen eventually. Still. My high elf warden seems like a really cool caster. Even if I'm 5k damage behind the meta sorc.

Mettaricana

I cant get my mag warden to do squat dies in like 1 hit if not spamming shields

Insandros

red_emu wrote: »

Let's not forget that this is a new class. It will take a while for it to get tweaked and buffed but it will happen eventually. Still. My high elf warden seems like a really cool caster. Even if I'm 5k damage behind the meta sorc.

yeah well lots of classes are a few k's behind meta sorcs

Jitterbug

red_emu wrote: »

Magicka Warden is a great hybrid

wut?

red_emu

Jitterbug wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

Magicka Warden is a great hybrid

wut?

A hybrid of tank, DPS and healer. Not excelling in one (unless you really want him to) but in balance between them all depending on your play style. Suits very well the whole balance of nature feel.

red_emu

Mettaricana wrote: »

I cant get my mag warden to do squat dies in like 1 hit if not spamming shields

Like every magicka class?

Zagnut123Zagnut123

Insandros wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

What kinda numbers do you get on it?

@Zagnut123Zagnut123

weak ones, as i said, no spell power pots, no ultimates really, no elemental drains, no ones buff, on dummy i get around 25-27k (more or likely about 900-920k dmg in about 30 seconds), on moving dungeons bosses i usualy finish with 21-22k... i know it's weak but i was expecting it to be way much worste than this from the reading on it being the worste one. as i said, which i could grab a vMA or any moondacer blue or golden rings, but, not happening for me for now, i don't have the patience for vMA lol

Vma doesn't add to much damage tbh but when your being competitive it's good to have. 25k 27k is we're I thought warden would be at it's high end without raid buffs. You must have figured out a pretty good rotation.

Panomania

Mettaricana wrote: »

I cant get my mag warden to do squat dies in like 1 hit if not spamming shields

Odd. I can pull 3 to 5 mobs at a time and kill em all before I get touched on my mag warden...and if I do get hit I definitely dont get one shot, unless its against DLC world bosses

Panomania

Keep up the dots, use deep fissure as often as possible and do. lightning heavy attacks when you struggle with magicka. From my experience the Wardens Sustain is pretty good even with 3 spell dmg glyphs. If you keep the Netch up at all time, you can run standard magicka potions.

Same for me for the most part, though I dont use the dots much since most crap dies so fast. Pretty much for me on trash fights its deep fissure, unstable wall of elements, Winter's Revenge then loot....with the occasional cliff racer tossed in if for some reason the mobs aint dead.

Insandros

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Insandros wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

What kinda numbers do you get on it?

@Zagnut123Zagnut123

weak ones, as i said, no spell power pots, no ultimates really, no elemental drains, no ones buff, on dummy i get around 25-27k (more or likely about 900-920k dmg in about 30 seconds), on moving dungeons bosses i usualy finish with 21-22k... i know it's weak but i was expecting it to be way much worste than this from the reading on it being the worste one. as i said, which i could grab a vMA or any moondacer blue or golden rings, but, not happening for me for now, i don't have the patience for vMA lol

Vma doesn't add to much damage tbh but when your being competitive it's good to have. 25k 27k is we're I thought warden would be at it's high end without raid buffs. You must have figured out a pretty good rotation.

At the cost of gold my friend, at the cost of gold... lots of CP testing, lots of monster sets tests, lot of gear tests... all upgraded, i got 5 pieces Necro for this purpose, including 2 sharpend staff, and 5 pieces War Maiden, also including 2 sharpen staff... i hate having money, i spend it like crazy just for testing out stuff, but what you want, when you love your toon and class, ttesting is part of the fun.... so many rotation tests, trying to get the most out of all timers on skills etc.. i think so far i came up with the best i could... 3 armor sets combination with 3 monster sets combination, i got to admit i never tried with Grothdarr, i love being a bit away from bosses, easier to anticipate mechanics But now, i'm poor lol

Insandros

Panomania wrote: »

Keep up the dots, use deep fissure as often as possible and do. lightning heavy attacks when you struggle with magicka. From my experience the Wardens Sustain is pretty good even with 3 spell dmg glyphs. If you keep the Netch up at all time, you can run standard magicka potions.

Same for me for the most part, though I dont use the dots much since most crap dies so fast. Pretty much for me on trash fights its deep fissure, unstable wall of elements, Winter's Revenge then loot....with the occasional cliff racer tossed in if for some reason the mobs aint dead.

same here, exept, besides buff, as i close in mobs, i pop fissure, then closing in while casting swarm, so by the time i get close to them, fissure proc and flies spreads, i then drop my other dots, wall of elements and forgot the name in english, the ice aoe floor shards, then heavy attacking with my lightning staff, if not ddead o huge pull, i rebuff with my wing flappers, pop fissure then again goes for swarm, wall of element, ice floor, heavy attack etc.. making sure netch is up...

Kalante

magicka warden is pure cancer.

Insandros

Kalante wrote: »

magicka warden is pure cancer.

That'S not the point of the thread, there is lots of them to whine about it, my goal with this thread, is, having one of those people that say warden is crap, dps is the worste and magika warden is cancer, then do a dungeon with those people and see how far back i am, it's easy to say a class is crap when all you do is copy paste someone elses build and rotation on the net and never try up stuff on your own and come up with a solution to get the most out of it... as i say, so far all i get is people being either almost even with me or lowest than me.. so i wanna try out with those people going on all mounthy the warden is crap versus their top dps toon... to actualy gauge myself how bad warden are versus those so kick ass classes and builds.

Torbschka

red_emu wrote: »

My magicka warden healer feels like a hybrid. Mostly in PvP. Good damage rotation, good heals and even a bit of tankiness. My stamina warden in the other hand feels very lackluster in comparison. They're both around lvl 30 now and I'm leaning more towards magicka after completing a few quite tough dungeons as a healer/DPS (yes I know that you all apparently can solo every vet dungeon asleep using light attack but I play for fun and aesthetics not leader boards).

I think most people try and play the warden like other classes and it doesn't work that way. Magicka Warden is a great hybrid class and with good rotation melts the enemies in PvP and PvE.

I dont wanna be harsh, but I read this very offen "most play it like other classes, but its a powrful hybrid" etc , at the and of that thread the always the following - "my warden is mid lvl 30".

The point is, ur hybrid will not have fun when 2 max XP proctards like to play with him.

Dymence

GilGalad wrote: »

Magicka Warden is fine. I got 30k+ on the PTS selfbuffed even on the robust skeleton. When I did pledges even with decent DKs I was able to keep up, especially in AOE situations. Deep fissure is so strong, that you can deal really good AOE dmg even with the Bear ultimate, wich deals really good Single target dmg.

Im playing 5 BSW, 4 Moondance (lightning Backbar)r, 2 Grothdarr and a vMA Inferno.
Alternatives would be 3 Willpower and random staffs or 5 BSW (jewels, 2 Body), 5 Julianos (4 Body, Weapons) and one Kena.

Fire Frontbar with Wall of elements and weaves is enough to keep 50%+ BSW uptimes.

Bars are:
Fire: Deep Fissure, Fetcher Infection, Wall of Elements, Cliff Racer, Magelight, Bear/Northern Storm
Lightning: elemental ring/ destructive clench (mostly for staff passive), Ice AOE, Netch, Rearming Trap/Shield/heal, Magelight, Bear/Meteor

Keep up the dots, use deep fissure as often as possible and do. lightning heavy attacks when you struggle with magicka. From my experience the Wardens Sustain is pretty good even with 3 spell dmg glyphs. If you keep the Netch up at all time, you can run standard magicka potions.

30k DPS self-buffed is really bad though. Have you retested on live?

EDIT: nvm, robust skeleton. What do you get on normal 3 mil skele?

GilGalad

Dymence wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

Magicka Warden is fine. I got 30k+ on the PTS selfbuffed even on the robust skeleton. When I did pledges even with decent DKs I was able to keep up, especially in AOE situations. Deep fissure is so strong, that you can deal really good AOE dmg even with the Bear ultimate, wich deals really good Single target dmg.

Im playing 5 BSW, 4 Moondance (lightning Backbar)r, 2 Grothdarr and a vMA Inferno.
Alternatives would be 3 Willpower and random staffs or 5 BSW (jewels, 2 Body), 5 Julianos (4 Body, Weapons) and one Kena.

Fire Frontbar with Wall of elements and weaves is enough to keep 50%+ BSW uptimes.

Bars are:
Fire: Deep Fissure, Fetcher Infection, Wall of Elements, Cliff Racer, Magelight, Bear/Northern Storm
Lightning: elemental ring/ destructive clench (mostly for staff passive), Ice AOE, Netch, Rearming Trap/Shield/heal, Magelight, Bear/Meteor

Keep up the dots, use deep fissure as often as possible and do. lightning heavy attacks when you struggle with magicka. From my experience the Wardens Sustain is pretty good even with 3 spell dmg glyphs. If you keep the Netch up at all time, you can run standard magicka potions.

30k DPS self-buffed is really bad though. Have you retested on live?

EDIT: nvm, robust skeleton. What do you get on normal 3 mil skele?

Ok so I did some tests today selfbuffed with elemental drain. Gear:
5 BSW, 4 Moondancer (lightning backbar), 2 Grothdarr, and a vMA Inferno



Debuffs:

Without bear ultimate:


As you can see in the debuffs screenshot (ignore drain, its bugged because I applied it before the fights started), I have 0% minor Vulnerability and off-balance, even though my CP are set up for it with 81 in Thaumaturg. While every other class has some kind of buff for DPS (Engulfing Flames, Minor Prophecy, Minor Sorcery, Minor Berserk, Minor Vulnerabilty, Off-Balance), the Warden has no buff at all. You will also have higher BSW uptimes, when there are adds around.

The main problem is that you have to play with the Bear, otherwise the single Target DPS drops significantly (see 2nd screenshot). On the otherhand it deals really good cleave dmg with Deep Fissure, Blockade and Winters Revenge. If you want to you can still switch in AOE ultimates for trash and the bear for boss fights.

The main advantage of the Warden is that you dont have to sacrifice a good ultimate when running Master Architect. With the Bear you can easily maintain 40% uptime. The sustain is also pretty good, with only 3 heavy attacks over the 90s fight.

Masel

GilGalad wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

Magicka Warden is fine. I got 30k+ on the PTS selfbuffed even on the robust skeleton. When I did pledges even with decent DKs I was able to keep up, especially in AOE situations. Deep fissure is so strong, that you can deal really good AOE dmg even with the Bear ultimate, wich deals really good Single target dmg.

Im playing 5 BSW, 4 Moondance (lightning Backbar)r, 2 Grothdarr and a vMA Inferno.
Alternatives would be 3 Willpower and random staffs or 5 BSW (jewels, 2 Body), 5 Julianos (4 Body, Weapons) and one Kena.

Fire Frontbar with Wall of elements and weaves is enough to keep 50%+ BSW uptimes.

Bars are:
Fire: Deep Fissure, Fetcher Infection, Wall of Elements, Cliff Racer, Magelight, Bear/Northern Storm
Lightning: elemental ring/ destructive clench (mostly for staff passive), Ice AOE, Netch, Rearming Trap/Shield/heal, Magelight, Bear/Meteor

Keep up the dots, use deep fissure as often as possible and do. lightning heavy attacks when you struggle with magicka. From my experience the Wardens Sustain is pretty good even with 3 spell dmg glyphs. If you keep the Netch up at all time, you can run standard magicka potions.

30k DPS self-buffed is really bad though. Have you retested on live?

EDIT: nvm, robust skeleton. What do you get on normal 3 mil skele?

Ok so I did some tests today selfbuffed with elemental drain. Gear:
5 BSW, 4 Moondancer (lightning backbar), 2 Grothdarr, and a vMA Inferno



Debuffs:

Without bear ultimate:


As you can see in the debuffs screenshot (ignore drain, its bugged because I applied it before the fights started), I have 0% minor Vulnerability and off-balance, even though my CP are set up for it with 81 in Thaumaturg. While every other class has some kind of buff for DPS (Engulfing Flames, Minor Prophecy, Minor Sorcery, Minor Berserk, Minor Vulnerabilty, Off-Balance), the Warden has no buff at all. You will also have higher BSW uptimes, when there are adds around.

The main problem is that you have to play with the Bear, otherwise the single Target DPS drops significantly (see 2nd screenshot). On the otherhand it deals really good cleave dmg with Deep Fissure, Blockade and Winters Revenge. If you want to you can still switch in AOE ultimates for trash and the bear for boss fights.

The main advantage of the Warden is that you dont have to sacrifice a good ultimate when running Master Architect. With the Bear you can easily maintain 40% uptime. The sustain is also pretty good, with only 3 heavy attacks over the 90s fight.

The group buffing is a point that I want wardens to have too. Everyone can contribute to the group somehow, but the warden can't. Give their frost and animal companion damage passives something that they can do for the group, for example when you deal damage against a chilled enemy, reduce their spell resistance by 2580 for 10 seconds and whenever you hit an enemy with an animal companion ability, reduce the physical resistance of the enemy by 2580 for 10 seconds. This way both stamina and magicka wardens could have their place in endgame content and get a nice damage increase overall.

Winter's revenge seriously needs to get the full critical advantage. It always has a top critical hit quota of 45%-ish. Something is off with that skill.

When I use my off-balance warden build, I usually parse around 33-34k on the dummy without having to heavy attack at all. I really don't get why people never use worm on a dummy test though. You'll ALWAYS have it in group content and it helps quite a lot.

Dymence

GilGalad wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

Magicka Warden is fine. I got 30k+ on the PTS selfbuffed even on the robust skeleton. When I did pledges even with decent DKs I was able to keep up, especially in AOE situations. Deep fissure is so strong, that you can deal really good AOE dmg even with the Bear ultimate, wich deals really good Single target dmg.

Im playing 5 BSW, 4 Moondance (lightning Backbar)r, 2 Grothdarr and a vMA Inferno.
Alternatives would be 3 Willpower and random staffs or 5 BSW (jewels, 2 Body), 5 Julianos (4 Body, Weapons) and one Kena.

Fire Frontbar with Wall of elements and weaves is enough to keep 50%+ BSW uptimes.

Bars are:
Fire: Deep Fissure, Fetcher Infection, Wall of Elements, Cliff Racer, Magelight, Bear/Northern Storm
Lightning: elemental ring/ destructive clench (mostly for staff passive), Ice AOE, Netch, Rearming Trap/Shield/heal, Magelight, Bear/Meteor

Keep up the dots, use deep fissure as often as possible and do. lightning heavy attacks when you struggle with magicka. From my experience the Wardens Sustain is pretty good even with 3 spell dmg glyphs. If you keep the Netch up at all time, you can run standard magicka potions.

30k DPS self-buffed is really bad though. Have you retested on live?

EDIT: nvm, robust skeleton. What do you get on normal 3 mil skele?

Ok so I did some tests today selfbuffed with elemental drain. Gear:
5 BSW, 4 Moondancer (lightning backbar), 2 Grothdarr, and a vMA Inferno



Debuffs:

Without bear ultimate:


As you can see in the debuffs screenshot (ignore drain, its bugged because I applied it before the fights started), I have 0% minor Vulnerability and off-balance, even though my CP are set up for it with 81 in Thaumaturg. While every other class has some kind of buff for DPS (Engulfing Flames, Minor Prophecy, Minor Sorcery, Minor Berserk, Minor Vulnerabilty, Off-Balance), the Warden has no buff at all. You will also have higher BSW uptimes, when there are adds around.

The main problem is that you have to play with the Bear, otherwise the single Target DPS drops significantly (see 2nd screenshot). On the otherhand it deals really good cleave dmg with Deep Fissure, Blockade and Winters Revenge. If you want to you can still switch in AOE ultimates for trash and the bear for boss fights.

The main advantage of the Warden is that you dont have to sacrifice a good ultimate when running Master Architect. With the Bear you can easily maintain 40% uptime. The sustain is also pretty good, with only 3 heavy attacks over the 90s fight.

Very nice, much higher than what I have achieved so far (31,2k with bear), but I am still lacking undaunted and don't have a moondancer staff to fill up the 4 piece. But don't you think it's still lagging behind other classes, which are sitting around 36-40k self buffed?

Another question, how is it you were able to sustain so well with double stat food? Especially seeing how much you used deep fissure. I'm running dry really fast even with witchmother.

Insandros

GilGalad wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

Magicka Warden is fine. I got 30k+ on the PTS selfbuffed even on the robust skeleton. When I did pledges even with decent DKs I was able to keep up, especially in AOE situations. Deep fissure is so strong, that you can deal really good AOE dmg even with the Bear ultimate, wich deals really good Single target dmg.

Im playing 5 BSW, 4 Moondance (lightning Backbar)r, 2 Grothdarr and a vMA Inferno.
Alternatives would be 3 Willpower and random staffs or 5 BSW (jewels, 2 Body), 5 Julianos (4 Body, Weapons) and one Kena.

Fire Frontbar with Wall of elements and weaves is enough to keep 50%+ BSW uptimes.

Bars are:
Fire: Deep Fissure, Fetcher Infection, Wall of Elements, Cliff Racer, Magelight, Bear/Northern Storm
Lightning: elemental ring/ destructive clench (mostly for staff passive), Ice AOE, Netch, Rearming Trap/Shield/heal, Magelight, Bear/Meteor

Keep up the dots, use deep fissure as often as possible and do. lightning heavy attacks when you struggle with magicka. From my experience the Wardens Sustain is pretty good even with 3 spell dmg glyphs. If you keep the Netch up at all time, you can run standard magicka potions.

30k DPS self-buffed is really bad though. Have you retested on live?

EDIT: nvm, robust skeleton. What do you get on normal 3 mil skele?

Ok so I did some tests today selfbuffed with elemental drain. Gear:
5 BSW, 4 Moondancer (lightning backbar), 2 Grothdarr, and a vMA Inferno



Debuffs:

Without bear ultimate:


As you can see in the debuffs screenshot (ignore drain, its bugged because I applied it before the fights started), I have 0% minor Vulnerability and off-balance, even though my CP are set up for it with 81 in Thaumaturg. While every other class has some kind of buff for DPS (Engulfing Flames, Minor Prophecy, Minor Sorcery, Minor Berserk, Minor Vulnerabilty, Off-Balance), the Warden has no buff at all. You will also have higher BSW uptimes, when there are adds around.

The main problem is that you have to play with the Bear, otherwise the single Target DPS drops significantly (see 2nd screenshot). On the otherhand it deals really good cleave dmg with Deep Fissure, Blockade and Winters Revenge. If you want to you can still switch in AOE ultimates for trash and the bear for boss fights.

The main advantage of the Warden is that you dont have to sacrifice a good ultimate when running Master Architect. With the Bear you can easily maintain 40% uptime. The sustain is also pretty good, with only 3 heavy attacks over the 90s fight.

I'm so far from that, my light attacks deals about 1/3 than yours, can you redo this without your VMA staff and any other, i wanna see the diff without vMA staff, since i don't own one. i'm just curious, so i can be able to compare apples with apple, that would be appreicated. even yhough you'Re having moondancer instead of IA i can dela with that.

Insandros

Vercingetorix wrote: »

By comparison, my sub-level 50 sorc can solo world bosses. I don't need to see numbers to know that Warden is crap-tier. It's a shame because turquoise is my favorite color and the animations/visuals are neat. Oh well...

Welcome to the wold of sorc, no need to compare sorc with anything, everyone know's it's the top dps class, not because warden is crap as you say, but sorc over dps any other classes. And i would put my 2 hands in a fire that's why you'Re leveling a sorc, you'Ve read it on the web and wanted one I created my Sorc the very first day ESO came out, so i pretty know how it goes and it's potential:) but after created it 3-4 years ago, you get to a point you wanna play other toons, not jsut numbers on a single one toon matters, that'S why i have all classes and roles toons (magika, i stay away from stam, not my kind of play)

Insandros

GilGalad wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Very nice, much higher than what I have achieved so far (31,2k with bear), but I am still lacking undaunted and don't have a moondancer staff to fill up the 4 piece. But don't you think it's still lagging behind other classes, which are sitting around 36-40k self buffed?

Another question, how is it you were able to sustain so well with double stat food? Especially seeing how much you used deep fissure. I'm running dry really fast even with witchmother.

Here is a similar parse I also did earlier today, since I didnt save the one above:
Buffs:

Debuffs:

Magicka Drain:

I'm a high elf vampire so I guess that helps with sustain. Also casting rearming trap, netch and drain save a lot of magicka. I also mixed in the heavy attacks whenever I had all dots running, so I would loose as little DPS as possible.

I think one would have to do a test with all classes and full raid buffs to really compare them. Just looking at the parses its so hard to estimate how much more or less they would do with all buffs or without the own class buffs. Wardens should end up somewhere in the range of NBs, but with the ability to run Master Architect in a pure ranged build, when dropping trap.
I think when you run a warden as support DPS with Master Architect and maybe the armor buff for the group, it would be totally worth it. The tests I did with Master Architect and BSW on the PTS where pretty much the same as the tests with BSW, Moondancer and Grothdarr.

Insandros wrote: »

I'm so far from that, my light attacks deals about 1/3 than yours, can you redo this without your VMA staff and any other, i wanna see the diff without vMA staff, since i don't own one. i'm just curious, so i can be able to compare apples with apple, that would be appreicated. even yhough you'Re having moondancer instead of IA i can dela with that.

Sry too tired to run any more tests today, but I can tell you that the vMA enchant contributes around 20% of the light Attack dmg and therefore around 1.3k of the total DPS (*). The rest of the light attack DPS comes down to the sets used. BSW gives a huge amount of spell dmg and since light and heavy attacks scale with roughly c*(magicka + 40.5* spell dmg) you can see an extreme difference when you compare it to sets like Necropotence or War Maiden (only buffs magic dmg attacks like Resto staff).
If you substract the time it took to channel 3 heavy attacks, I hit 63 light attacks in around 83s, thats approx. 0.77 light attacks per sec. The highest I personally reached in a pure light attack rota was around 0.82 attacks per sec, so you can use these numbers to compare your weaving in general.
Using a vMA Staff only makes a really big difference when you use a lot of lightning heavy attacks. With a DK and engulfing flames, fire heavy attacks should deal approx the same dmg as lightning heavies, but the difference with and without vMA staff is much smaller.

(*): Calculation

Max hit (crit): 11471
Crit dmg multiplier: 1.67
vMA tooltip: 1341
vMA crit: 1341*1.67 = 2239
vMA contribution: 2239/11471 = 19.5%
vMA DPS: 19.5% * (4635+1609+609)DPS  = 1336 DPS

No worries, thanks for the tip. I presume i'm just too brainless or dumb for this game to be more than average player... when i try your setp and config, it turns out even worste... i guess my parents were some dumb Khajiit

MLGProPlayer

Insandros wrote: »

Greetings guys and gals... I've made a post already on the Warden, how fun i find that class etc... out of context of performance of the class.... so i don't wanna mixt this thread with the other.. as while playign this toon i love so far, one Warden healer toon and one DPS warden toon.... at first i made it to enjoy, but as it went, i started to really like that toon... but as lots says, dps id weak, so my thread is not to discuss about the warden's low dps since there is plenty of other threads for this... but mostly, because i got down the path of trying to make him best at what he can like all my other toons.... i was then surprises to see that since Morrowind, it deals better than my magika sorc which for some reason since patch lost a few good dps, but i haven'T really played around with it and CP realocation as i mostly redistributed as before, but now my trip is my warden....


so to make a long story short... my thread is about trying to find people to do pledges with, since it's supposed to be the worste dps ever in game as magika build, and most of the pledge i do i ended up upper damage % done... even with my friends i even close on so called top dps build and classes, i even now reach my friend NB that was beating me a lot before on my sorc in AoE... so i'm curious to see if any good end-game players that knows what good dps is to actualy group one day in a pledge or anything so i can see versys a good dps what it's like, even though my friends are dealling pretty well and i know it, i just doupt about pugs. I just wanna see how it stands and how far back it is with a good dps end-game player, i know i'm way down since i don'T have any vMA or Moondacers, just good old blue IA jewls...

If anyone interested in trying out a pledge on NA PC server, let me know, either here or PM.... i really love this toon and i'm really curious to see how bad it is in practicle situation, not just on some numbers done on a non-moving skeleton Since most of the dps test i see, uses, pots, elemental drain, ultimates, other players buffing them.. and since my test i never use this, i rather test my raw dmg alone and have the surprise in real situation, so not easy to gauge the same situation as i do, but, in a pledge with someone, might be useful as a simple curiosity....

You will have top DPS because most people doing pledges suck.

Warden can hit 30k+ DPS (which most people in dungeons can't). That's enough to complete all content in the game, including vet trials. But it isn't enough for leader board runs. Wardens are about 5-10k DPS behind the other classes at the upper end, which means that they are useless in competitive trial runs.

It also means there is less room for error when you are a warden. Other classes can hit 30-35k DPS with ease while a warden needs a near perfect rotation and BiS gear to get there (and that's their ceiling, while the other classes can get another 5k+ DPS from a perfect rotation/BiS gear).

Vercingetorix

By comparison, my sub-level 50 sorc can solo world bosses. I don't need to see numbers to know that Warden is crap-tier. It's a shame because turquoise is my favorite color and the animations/visuals are neat. Oh well...

GilGalad

Dymence wrote: »

Very nice, much higher than what I have achieved so far (31,2k with bear), but I am still lacking undaunted and don't have a moondancer staff to fill up the 4 piece. But don't you think it's still lagging behind other classes, which are sitting around 36-40k self buffed?

Another question, how is it you were able to sustain so well with double stat food? Especially seeing how much you used deep fissure. I'm running dry really fast even with witchmother.

Here is a similar parse I also did earlier today, since I didnt save the one above:
Buffs:

Debuffs:

Magicka Drain:

I'm a high elf vampire so I guess that helps with sustain. Also casting rearming trap, netch and drain save a lot of magicka. I also mixed in the heavy attacks whenever I had all dots running, so I would loose as little DPS as possible.

I think one would have to do a test with all classes and full raid buffs to really compare them. Just looking at the parses its so hard to estimate how much more or less they would do with all buffs or without the own class buffs. Wardens should end up somewhere in the range of NBs, but with the ability to run Master Architect in a pure ranged build, when dropping trap.
I think when you run a warden as support DPS with Master Architect and maybe the armor buff for the group, it would be totally worth it. The tests I did with Master Architect and BSW on the PTS where pretty much the same as the tests with BSW, Moondancer and Grothdarr.

Insandros wrote: »

I'm so far from that, my light attacks deals about 1/3 than yours, can you redo this without your VMA staff and any other, i wanna see the diff without vMA staff, since i don't own one. i'm just curious, so i can be able to compare apples with apple, that would be appreicated. even yhough you'Re having moondancer instead of IA i can dela with that.

Sry too tired to run any more tests today, but I can tell you that the vMA enchant contributes around 20% of the light Attack dmg and therefore around 1.3k of the total DPS (*). The rest of the light attack DPS comes down to the sets used. BSW gives a huge amount of spell dmg and since light and heavy attacks scale with roughly c*(magicka + 40.5* spell dmg) you can see an extreme difference when you compare it to sets like Necropotence or War Maiden (only buffs magic dmg attacks like Resto staff).
If you substract the time it took to channel 3 heavy attacks, I hit 63 light attacks in around 83s, thats approx. 0.77 light attacks per sec. The highest I personally reached in a pure light attack rota was around 0.82 attacks per sec, so you can use these numbers to compare your weaving in general.
Using a vMA Staff only makes a really big difference when you use a lot of lightning heavy attacks. With a DK and engulfing flames, fire heavy attacks should deal approx the same dmg as lightning heavies, but the difference with and without vMA staff is much smaller.

(*): Calculation

Max hit (crit): 11471
Crit dmg multiplier: 1.67
vMA tooltip: 1341
vMA crit: 1341*1.67 = 2239
vMA contribution: 2239/11471 = 19.5%
vMA DPS: 19.5% * (4635+1609+609)DPS  = 1336 DPS