What I would do with Proc sets.

Joy_Division · June 2017

A lot of people just say to remove or disable them from PvP and Battlegrounds. This is a lazy and unsatisfying solution. The same sort of “band-aid” measure that ZoS gets criticized for.

Is there value in Proc sets? Are they worth keeping?
Yes and yes. Proc sets offer a player build options that open up viable possibilities beyond the limiting confines of their classes, assigned roles, and cookie-cutter mechanics. A magicka DK can wear the Valkyn Skoria set to access damage burst it would not otherwise have. A glass cannon sorcerer could wear Bloodspawn for added protection and stamina management. Any player can use the Engine guardian set to aid resource management, which is especially appealing in light of the Morrowind changes.

Not to mention, as part of the Undaunted rewards, they provide us with motivation to run dungeons like City of Ash for the 101st time.

The concept is a good one, it’s already in the game, ZoS wants PvE and PvP to be part of the same system. So let’s use our brains here and try to hammer out a reform that works for all of in the community: those who PvE, those who play no CP PvP, and those who would like to use their build everywhere in Tamriel.

That being said, there is one type of Proc set I would do away with entirely:

A 5 piece automatic and instant damage proc set is a suspect design as these are far too easy to stack with themselves and a two-piece monster set.
Sets like Winterborn, Bahraha’s Curse, and the Eternal Hunt Set are fine (or at least the first two were before the blanket “procs can’t critically hit” nerf that failed to address the core problem) because they are conditional and can be countered.

Are proc sets too dominant and strong?
It depends. Some are in certain instances. The most conspicuous offenders are those that trigger instant “invisible” damage in no CP PvP environment. This incoming damage cannot be seen and thus cannot be countered until it is often too late. Deprived of CP – when the base game and fundamental balance mechanics are based off that CP – players have fewer resources, a lesser threshold for dying, and fewer means to counter procs that were designed for play in a CP setting. Instant damage procs also allow players the capability to continue doing high damage without expending their resources, which is especially potent in a no CP environment.

In my estimation, proc sets spotlight the problem with trying to create a fair and fun gameplay environment around two entirely different rulesets (CP and no CP) and paradoxically remain committed to endgame progression with the champion system, yet not having said system be a part of PvP and simply expecting everything to work fine. The Viper set originally dropped in the most difficult PvE trial (Sanctum Ophidia); there are going to be problems when reward DPS set whose procs are designed to compete with top tier max CP raid players is put in a no CP environment.

But it is what it is. ZoS has decided to try and govern no CP PvP and max CP PvE raiding under the same rules, game mechanics, gear, same everything. So we need to find some mechanism to limit these proc sets designed for CP so they don’t dominate non-CP.

The principle problem:
Allowing multiple and simultaneous instant damage procs to hit a player. I can handle and counter just about everything else. But when I am hit with multiple procs that required little or no thought by my opponent, I feel as if I lost to their gear, which is something that should not happen.

How about turning all the instant-damage Procs to DoTs?
Sounds too easy and is. It’s too favorable for Templars and defeats the whole purpose of expanding build options to those classes/specs looking for burst damage.

How about scaling the proc damage to weapon/spell damage?
This addresses problems people have with heavy armor tanks pulling strong burst damage, but does nothing to the “procblades” who insta-kill players with Incap + Viper + Velidreth or the Red Mountain + Viper builds that get so much mileage from dual wielding, which offers constant procs from Rending Slashes, Rapid Strikes, and heavy attack weaves.

How about subject them to a Battlespirit reduction?
They already are. Further reduction would render all the non-problematic proc sets (which are most actually) to decon trash, it still wouldn’t address the fundamental problem: multiple and simultaneous incoming hits. ZoS already tried to reduce the damage by removing crits and that method didn’t work.

How about a cooldown?
Of the blanket solutions, this is probably the one I think has the most potential. As much as I may dislike competing against opponents who are defined by proc sets as opposed to their class or abilities, I can contend and handle one weapon proc that hits me; it’s the multiple and near simultaneous high immediate damage that causes problems.

How about adjusting the worst offenders?
In theory the best option, however I do think there is a fine line here between keeping those proc sets that add value to the game and just over-nerfing everything.

Take Grothdar. This is a very strong set that is the obvious DPS choice for PvE magicka templars and DKs, but I don’t find this set very threatening, even in no CP PvP because it’s just a DoT that I can see (and thus choose to avoid) usually on a spec with little burst. Even Selenes, a commonly touted offender, I’m OK with because I can see (and hear!) it and thus the possibility to counter exists.

These are three proc sets that I find most problematic:

Tremorscale One: I think instant damage burst proc on player demand is a highly dubious concept. Two: nice idea intended for tanks to do damage that’s abused by DPS Ransack+bash spammers. Three: multiple strong effects (damage + 70% snare) are too potent. High damaging procs on cooldown triggered by instant damage spammables is an abusive combination.

Viper In the last patch notes ZoS nerfed Burning Spellweave because: “Burning Spellweave is currently one of the most dominant Magicka DPS sets in the game, which limits diversity in set gearing. We’ve slightly reduced the proc chance and Spell Damage it grants so it is more in-line with other Item Set options, and is only a more attractive option when you are using many Flame Damage attacks.”

The same logic applies here as it is the dominant stam DPS set (and even some heavy armor users!) in the game. It’s another instant damage set that is easy to maintain on cooldown by players using the high burst damage skills they already want to use.

Shadow of the Red Mountain This is more abusive than Viper even if the latter has a more infamous reputation. 2 second cooldown that is easy to maintain by using Rapid Strikes, Blood Craze, Axe bleed, and weaving heavy attacks, again stuff players already want to use in a rotation. A 5 piece set that is easily stacked with Viper, and a monster set of choice is all that needs to be written as to why a 5 piece automatic and instant proc damage is a poor design concept.

And one set I will hate if ZoS nerfs those three: Poisonous Serpent No cooldown, 25% chance to proc 6K damage on a basic attack (that’s two chances for duel wielders) on any target hit by poison injection. This one isn’t abused (yet) because people think it’s not easy to farm.

What I would do is rework the Viper, Red Mountain, Poisonous Serpent, and any other easy instant invisible proc set I haven’t thought of or is in ZoS development is to reform them in the manner of the 5th piece bonuses of sets like Destructive Mage, Ice furnace, or Storm Master. That will no doubt make them undesirable, and that is the intent.

As for Tremorscale, if we want tanks to have a damage option, fine, but there is no need for the huge snare as the set should not do a tank’s job for them. Also, if the damage is going to be in the high burst category, it should not be on demand, which a 50% chance on a spammable virtually is. If the 50% proc rate stays, make it a DoT, that way tanks can have their damage without it being so abusive.

Is there an easier way without going through each individual set?
Yep. Flag every instant damage proc set and write a script so only one can be active at one time (the others would be disabled).

Why can’t we just get rid of them or disable their use in PvP? I want PvP to be based on actual skill!
We “can”, but

That’s precisely the lazy blanket solution that you have criticized ZoS for implementing in the past
Proc sets add options, open up more theory-crafting, allow for less cookie-cutter possibilities if done correctly. This is a case of a few rotten apples should not spoil the bushel.
It stinks to acquire an awesome reward and then not being able to use it because a portion of the community complained about dying in PvP.
It’s not easy to define what a proc set is. Some people may argue the Maelstrom two-handed bleed damage counts. I’d immediately uninstall if it took me 300 Maelstrom runs to finally get the weapon I wanted and then couldn’t use it because a portion of the community complained about dying in Battlegrounds.
What is “skillful” is in the eye of the beholder. In my estimation, PvPing in an environment where a magicka DK is handicapped when it comes to burst damage – by far the most reliable means to kill players – is not nearly the test of skill for magicka sorcerer as proc set haters like to think it is.

In short, proc damage sets do have a place and serve a purpose
DKs, Templars, and “gank” builds especially value that extra bit of burst and that option should be available to them, especially in light of powerful defensive armor bonuses out there: we just went through a “meta” which was criticized for many “unkillable” tanks. The problem here is proc set abuse. Eliminate the simultaneous and invisible procs associated with 5 piece bonuses that are too easily stacked and triggered from high damaging spammables.

Won’t people still die to powerful sets like Skoria, Selene, and Velidreth?
Yes. I understand nobody likes to die, but player death is necessary and the goal here is to make it palatable and counterable. I don’t mind Skoria because it’s almost useless on sorcs, does not proc off high damaging spammables, and the game tells me and my attacker in two seconds I am going to get hit. It is by far the best designed proc set in the game. Since there is no magicka version of Viper (there almost was, the Overhwleming set), it’s fine. Selene fits the stamina MO of in your face burst damage. I’m fine with it hitting hard because it must be melee and I do get warned. Velidreth is borderline because those spheres are either going to hit you or not; but the cooldown is long and sometimes the wearer wastes the proc with their bow attacks. As long as Valkyn, Selene, and Velidreth are not paired with another common high damage proc, I do not mind being the target of a player wearing them.

What else can we learn from this episode?
ZoS tends to overestimate the strength of utility/healing sets. Every single healing “proc” set ever offered I have tried and found wanting as a healer since launch. Nobody is going to wear the Jailbreaker set when Viper and Fury are options. Especially in light of the Morrowind changes and being forced to compete in no CPs for Battlegrounds: if I’m not getting a boatload of resources, strong defense, or reliable potent damage, I am not interested in anything else.

Also, I believe trying to balance a game with the same mechanics that govern no CP PvP and the base game is unsound and untenable. ZoS should look to removing the Champion system, return the power stolen from the classes, and come up with a new end game progression system that unifies the community as opposed to divides it.

This was long. Can you give a summary?
Yep.

Simply removing proc sets is a lazy solution with too many unsatisfying ramifications
The goal should be instead to remove their abuse
5 piece bonuses that offer invisible and easily triggered burst damage procs sets are the primary offenders
Make it such these are not stackable. A script will do. Reworking the 5 piece bonuses is the more thorough and preferable option. Learn from this episode and avoid in future sets.
You get a maximum of one instant-proc damage set and you must use your Monster set bonus to have it. We make choice that matters.
If ZoS wants to be “100% committed to supporting a single unified game where mechanics and abilities work consistently [in PvE and PvP],” then it ought to rethink the Champion System as proc set abusive is symptomatic of the pitfalls in current approach.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

Neoauspex · June 2017

Thanks for the time you put into this write-up. I've written several different places, and you touched on this as well, that proc sets are a huge loophole in a patch that is attempting to balance combat via resource management. So I would add to your list of possible solutions the idea of adding resource cost to procs in conjunction with their value.

I'll also say that, despite your valuable input in every PTS test, ZOS doesn't seem to dive too deeply into the problems you present... They lean more towards band-aid fixes. But in the case of proc sets becoming a tier of meta that is nearly mandatory, a band-aid fix is better than not addressing it at all. So ZOS, maybe next DLC at least put out a set with a 5pc bonus that reflects all damage from armor sources. That's pretty much how they handled shield stacking and healbots...

Hoked_on_ponix · June 2017

Very good analysis. Knowing ZOS they will most likely implement a blanket solution instead of addressing individual sets. Like you said out of all the blanket options the cooldown option seems to be the most viable and probably the most likely. Still gives players the option of amplifying their burst without lining up multiple controllable procs.

ShedsHisTail · June 2017

Hoked_on_ponix wrote: »

Very good analysis. Knowing ZOS they will most likely implement a blanket solution instead of addressing individual sets. Like you said out of all the blanket options the cooldown option seems to be the most viable and probably the most likely. Still gives players the option of amplifying their burst without lining up multiple controllable procs.

There is a simple, blanket solution, I've said it several times now...

Make it impossible for sets which proc to carry the Impenetrable trait.

That creates a built-in counter play. If you want a set that dishes out high numbers, you have to sacrifice survivability in PvP. Such a change will have basically zero affect on PvE content, and won't interfere with the novelty which makes proc sets fun to play with in a PvE setting.

Will people still get proc-nuked? Sure, occasionally, but people running proc sets (in PvP) will also get killed a lot more often, so they'll likely stop running proc sets as much. It becomes player choice which mitigates the effect of proc sets on the battlefield, rather than ZOS monkeying with the math and making things even more convoluted.

casparian · June 2017

As is characteristic of Joy_Division posts, this is comprehensive, well-put, and exactly right.

Unpopular opinion: I love proc sets. As the OP points out, they make build design much more flexible, diverse, and interesting, as well as adding higher and more interesting stakes to dungeon runs. They should be powerful and yes, they should sometimes kill players.

But this isn't to say there are no problems with current proc set design.

Skoria and Selene are two excellent examples of good proc sets: they are both telegraphed and counterable, but still powerful. If I get hit by an enemy player's Selene bear, I always feel as though I was outplayed: either I made a mistake and didn't move out of the way of the bear (or didn't block Skoria), or the enemy player or team arranged the situation in order to make it more difficult for me to do so. Either way, skill is involved. Last weekend I was on my magblade, and grouped with a stam build using Selene. We were able to coordinate so that I would use Crippling Grasp on a player just as the stam build began his attack, meaning I greatly increased his chances of getting Selene to connect. That felt like teamwork, and it was awesome. I don't want that to go away.

The problems arise when a player is defeated by virtually nothing but procs, and when counterplay is not available. The only counterplay available to Viper or Red Mountain is don't take damage, which is to say there is no real counterplay.

Also: dammit don't tell people about Poisonous Serpent!

WalksonGraves · June 2017

On the one hand everything you said makes sense, on the other my viper/rm/selene stamsorc abuses all these issues and it's fun.

NordSwordnBoard · June 2017

@ShedsHisTail - I mentioned your idea in another thread but forgot who to credit it to. (Lots of threads about BG imbalance.) I like this idea of yours. I see it as a great compromise, the best we have on the table imo. Not messing with PvE play is a key ingredient.

Whether its specific changes to the worst offenders or blanket changes, we need something to make this game more skill-based and less rng dice roll damage.

Battlegrounds just magnifies these pre-existing issues. Please address them... Battlegrounds have so much potential to be a great competitive arena instead of a giant bowl of cheese & proccoli.

Neoauspex · June 2017

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Make it impossible for sets which proc to carry the Impenetrable trait.

Saw this idea on the the other thread and I agree, this is a good idea. Although, without knowing the coding issues I'm not sure how "blanket" (or easy to implement) this is. ZOS would have to determine where to draw the proc line... Anything with a percent chance to perform an action? Anything that isn't a flat stat boost? Just damage procs?

Ishammael · June 2017

Thanks for the analysis.

The solution seems obvious: adjust the most obvious offenders on a case-by-case basis. Something like this:
1. Viper -- lowered dmg by ~35%
2. Red Mountain -- lowered dmg by ~35%
3. Tremor -- remove one of the extra effects (snare?)
4. etc...

Jurand80 · June 2017

how does it feel to write all that and be ignored? coz you will be. peace.

ShedsHisTail · June 2017

Neoauspex wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Make it impossible for sets which proc to carry the Impenetrable trait.

Saw this idea on the the other thread and I agree, this is a good idea. Although, without knowing the coding issues I'm not sure how "blanket" (or easy to implement) this is. ZOS would have to determine where to draw the proc line... Anything with a percent chance to perform an action? Anything that isn't a a flat stat boost? Just damage procs?

In my head, I'm thinking just bursty damage procs, like the ones mentioned by @Joy_Division .
Stuff that has no real counterplay, can't be dodged or cleansed, doesn't telegraph, etc. Defensive procs are fine, stat procs are fine (because they simply increase the potency of normal damage output which can be mitigated by standard means); but sets that just pile damage on the target with no way to avoid or mitigate it are a problem.

If you wanna be a glass cannon, you gotta come to terms with being delicate. That's how I see it.

Joy_Division · June 2017

Jurand80 wrote: »

how does it feel to write all that and be ignored? coz you will be. peace.

Disheartening. But as long as I play the game and have fun with the people on my friend's list and guilds, I will continue to fight the good fight,.

I just am much more choosy when it comes to writing these sorts of posts.

When I rolled my Warden, I didn't grind it, didn't craft special gear, I played it exactly how a player new to ESO would have. It has given me *a lot* of insight into the whole "ceiling" and "floor" separation ZoS has pointed out. Just not motivated to share this though because I'm already at end-game and it's not like I'm a GM of a guild looking to recruit newer players.

The proc set thing though is something that we all face every time we PvP and I have a feeling ZoS will address the issue next update and would like to see them do it in a way that offers something for all parts of the ESO community.

QuebraRegra · June 2017

PVP issues aside, we need MORE proc sets (lacking any new skill line expansions... warden nws). Instead of straight dmg which seems to be the chief complaint, I'd like to see more utility sets...

ex. SHADOWHIDE set: the 5th set power would be to make the player invisible (or cloak effect) for "x" number of seconds after crouching for 5 (?) seconds. Invisibility timer could be refreshed/extended by the player remaining motionless while crouching.

Might be interesting to add some stealth play to other than NB classes.

frozywozy · July 2017

Joy_Division wrote: »

A lot of people just say to remove or disable them from PvP and Battlegrounds. This is a lazy and unsatisfying solution. The same sort of “band-aid” measure that ZoS gets criticized for.

Is there value in Proc sets? Are they worth keeping?
Yes and yes. Proc sets offer a player build options that open up viable possibilities beyond the limiting confines of their classes, assigned roles, and cookie-cutter mechanics. A magicka DK can wear the Valkyn Skoria set to access damage burst it would not otherwise have. A glass cannon sorcerer could wear Bloodspawn for added protection and stamina management. Any player can use the Engine guardian set to aid resource management, which is especially appealing in light of the Morrowind changes.

Not to mention, as part of the Undaunted rewards, they provide us with motivation to run dungeons like City of Ash for the 101st time.

The concept is a good one, it’s already in the game, ZoS wants PvE and PvP to be part of the same system. So let’s use our brains here and try to hammer out a reform that works for all of in the community: those who PvE, those who play no CP PvP, and those who would like to use their build everywhere in Tamriel.

That being said, there is one type of Proc set I would do away with entirely:

A 5 piece automatic and instant damage proc set is a suspect design as these are far too easy to stack with themselves and a two-piece monster set.
Sets like Winterborn, Bahraha’s Curse, and the Eternal Hunt Set are fine (or at least the first two were before the blanket “procs can’t critically hit” nerf that failed to address the core problem) because they are conditional and can be countered.

Are proc sets too dominant and strong?
It depends. Some are in certain instances. The most conspicuous offenders are those that trigger instant “invisible” damage in no CP PvP environment. This incoming damage cannot be seen and thus cannot be countered until it is often too late. Deprived of CP – when the base game and fundamental balance mechanics are based off that CP – players have fewer resources, a lesser threshold for dying, and fewer means to counter procs that were designed for play in a CP setting. Instant damage procs also allow players the capability to continue doing high damage without expending their resources, which is especially potent in a no CP environment.

In my estimation, proc sets spotlight the problem with trying to create a fair and fun gameplay environment around two entirely different rulesets (CP and no CP) and paradoxically remain committed to endgame progression with the champion system, yet not having said system be a part of PvP and simply expecting everything to work fine. The Viper set originally dropped in the most difficult PvE trial (Sanctum Ophidia); there are going to be problems when reward DPS set whose procs are designed to compete with top tier max CP raid players is put in a no CP environment.

But it is what it is. ZoS has decided to try and govern no CP PvP and max CP PvE raiding under the same rules, game mechanics, gear, same everything. So we need to find some mechanism to limit these proc sets designed for CP so they don’t dominate non-CP.

The principle problem:
Allowing multiple and simultaneous instant damage procs to hit a player. I can handle and counter just about everything else. But when I am hit with multiple procs that required little or no thought by my opponent, I feel as if I lost to their gear, which is something that should not happen.

How about turning all the instant-damage Procs to DoTs?
Sounds too easy and is. It’s too favorable for Templars and defeats the whole purpose of expanding build options to those classes/specs looking for burst damage.

How about scaling the proc damage to weapon/spell damage?
This addresses problems people have with heavy armor tanks pulling strong burst damage, but does nothing to the “procblades” who insta-kill players with Incap + Viper + Velidreth or the Red Mountain + Viper builds that get so much mileage from dual wielding, which offers constant procs from Rending Slashes, Rapid Strikes, and heavy attack weaves.

How about subject them to a Battlespirit reduction?
They already are. Further reduction would render all the non-problematic proc sets (which are most actually) to decon trash, it still wouldn’t address the fundamental problem: multiple and simultaneous incoming hits. ZoS already tried to reduce the damage by removing crits and that method didn’t work.

How about a cooldown?
Of the blanket solutions, this is probably the one I think has the most potential. As much as I may dislike competing against opponents who are defined by proc sets as opposed to their class or abilities, I can contend and handle one weapon proc that hits me; it’s the multiple and near simultaneous high immediate damage that causes problems.

How about adjusting the worst offenders?
In theory the best option, however I do think there is a fine line here between keeping those proc sets that add value to the game and just over-nerfing everything.

Take Grothdar. This is a very strong set that is the obvious DPS choice for PvE magicka templars and DKs, but I don’t find this set very threatening, even in no CP PvP because it’s just a DoT that I can see (and thus choose to avoid) usually on a spec with little burst. Even Selenes, a commonly touted offender, I’m OK with because I can see (and hear!) it and thus the possibility to counter exists.

These are three proc sets that I find most problematic:

Tremorscale One: I think instant damage burst proc on player demand is a highly dubious concept. Two: nice idea intended for tanks to do damage that’s abused by DPS Ransack+bash spammers. Three: multiple strong effects (damage + 70% snare) are too potent. High damaging procs on cooldown triggered by instant damage spammables is an abusive combination.

Viper In the last patch notes ZoS nerfed Burning Spellweave because: “Burning Spellweave is currently one of the most dominant Magicka DPS sets in the game, which limits diversity in set gearing. We’ve slightly reduced the proc chance and Spell Damage it grants so it is more in-line with other Item Set options, and is only a more attractive option when you are using many Flame Damage attacks.”

The same logic applies here as it is the dominant stam DPS set (and even some heavy armor users!) in the game. It’s another instant damage set that is easy to maintain on cooldown by players using the high burst damage skills they already want to use.

Shadow of the Red Mountain This is more abusive than Viper even if the latter has a more infamous reputation. 2 second cooldown that is easy to maintain by using Rapid Strikes, Blood Craze, Axe bleed, and weaving heavy attacks, again stuff players already want to use in a rotation. A 5 piece set that is easily stacked with Viper, and a monster set of choice is all that needs to be written as to why a 5 piece automatic and instant proc damage is a poor design concept.

And one set I will hate if ZoS nerfs those three: Poisonous Serpent No cooldown, 25% chance to proc 6K damage on a basic attack (that’s two chances for duel wielders) on any target hit by poison injection. This one isn’t abused (yet) because people think it’s not easy to farm.

What I would do is rework the Viper, Red Mountain, Poisonous Serpent, and any other easy instant invisible proc set I haven’t thought of or is in ZoS development is to reform them in the manner of the 5th piece bonuses of sets like Destructive Mage, Ice furnace, or Storm Master. That will no doubt make them undesirable, and that is the intent.

As for Tremorscale, if we want tanks to have a damage option, fine, but there is no need for the huge snare as the set should not do a tank’s job for them. Also, if the damage is going to be in the high burst category, it should not be on demand, which a 50% chance on a spammable virtually is. If the 50% proc rate stays, make it a DoT, that way tanks can have their damage without it being so abusive.

Is there an easier way without going through each individual set?
Yep. Flag every instant damage proc set and write a script so only one can be active at one time (the others would be disabled).

Why can’t we just get rid of them or disable their use in PvP? I want PvP to be based on actual skill!
We “can”, but
That’s precisely the lazy blanket solution that you have criticized ZoS for implementing in the past

Proc sets add options, open up more theory-crafting, allow for less cookie-cutter possibilities if done correctly. This is a case of a few rotten apples should not spoil the bushel.

It stinks to acquire an awesome reward and then not being able to use it because a portion of the community complained about dying in PvP.

It’s not easy to define what a proc set is. Some people may argue the Maelstrom two-handed bleed damage counts. I’d immediately uninstall if it took me 300 Maelstrom runs to finally get the weapon I wanted and then couldn’t use it because a portion of the community complained about dying in Battlegrounds.

What is “skillful” is in the eye of the beholder. In my estimation, PvPing in an environment where a magicka DK is handicapped when it comes to burst damage – by far the most reliable means to kill players – is not nearly the test of skill for magicka sorcerer as proc set haters like to think it is.

In short, proc damage sets do have a place and serve a purpose
DKs, Templars, and “gank” builds especially value that extra bit of burst and that option should be available to them, especially in light of powerful defensive armor bonuses out there: we just went through a “meta” which was criticized for many “unkillable” tanks. The problem here is proc set abuse. Eliminate the simultaneous and invisible procs associated with 5 piece bonuses that are too easily stacked and triggered from high damaging spammables.

Won’t people still die to powerful sets like Skoria, Selene, and Velidreth?
Yes. I understand nobody likes to die, but player death is necessary and the goal here is to make it palatable and counterable. I don’t mind Skoria because it’s almost useless on sorcs, does not proc off high damaging spammables, and the game tells me and my attacker in two seconds I am going to get hit. It is by far the best designed proc set in the game. Since there is no magicka version of Viper (there almost was, the Overhwleming set), it’s fine. Selene fits the stamina MO of in your face burst damage. I’m fine with it hitting hard because it must be melee and I do get warned. Velidreth is borderline because those spheres are either going to hit you or not; but the cooldown is long and sometimes the wearer wastes the proc with their bow attacks. As long as Valkyn, Selene, and Velidreth are not paired with another common high damage proc, I do not mind being the target of a player wearing them.

What else can we learn from this episode?
ZoS tends to overestimate the strength of utility/healing sets. Every single healing “proc” set ever offered I have tried and found wanting as a healer since launch. Nobody is going to wear the Jailbreaker set when Viper and Fury are options. Especially in light of the Morrowind changes and being forced to compete in no CPs for Battlegrounds: if I’m not getting a boatload of resources, strong defense, or reliable potent damage, I am not interested in anything else.

Also, I believe trying to balance a game with the same mechanics that govern no CP PvP and the base game is unsound and untenable. ZoS should look to removing the Champion system, return the power stolen from the classes, and come up with a new end game progression system that unifies the community as opposed to divides it.

This was long. Can you give a summary?
Yep.
Simply removing proc sets is a lazy solution with too many unsatisfying ramifications

The goal should be instead to remove their abuse

5 piece bonuses that offer invisible and easily triggered burst damage procs sets are the primary offenders

Make it such these are not stackable. A script will do. Reworking the 5 piece bonuses is the more thorough and preferable option. Learn from this episode and avoid in future sets.

You get a maximum of one instant-proc damage set and you must use your Monster set bonus to have it. We make choice that matters.

If ZoS wants to be “100% committed to supporting a single unified game where mechanics and abilities work consistently [in PvE and PvP],” then it ought to rethink the Champion System as proc set abusive is symptomatic of the pitfalls in current approach.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

You forgot to talk about the proc chances. Imo, the most balanced proc set is Valkyn Skoria. On the other hand, sets like Viper with a 100% proc chance is riduculous and a bad game design. Every damaging proc set in the game should have a 6 to 8% chances to proc. Yes, even Viper (100%), Tremor (50%), Infernal Guardian (50%), Velidreth (20%), Selene (15%), etc.