DPS from healers

Lumsdenml

Ran a dungeon healer a while ago and was told I was expected to add to group DPS and not buff/heal 100% of the time. Haven't run as a healer much since. What kind of DPS numbers is one expected to provide as a healer? 2k? 7k? 15k? Just wondering what is expected in the general community.

seedubsrun

I don't think you'll have to offer too much really. A lot of healers these days will put a charged lightning staff on the back bar with Wall of Elements. This will set enemies off balance. Your DPS in the group will have 75 into the Thaumaturge CP to unlock the exploiter passive giving an extra 10% damage to off balance enemies. That's the only extra damage I ever use as a healer. The rest is buffs such as combat prayer, elemental drain, and aggressive warhorn that will boost DPS output of the rest of your group. I think any group expecting more damage than that from you is probably not holding up their end of things DPS-wise

Oreyn_Bearclaw

OP, believe it or not, you were in a really bad group (or a group with a very dated philosophy) if they were saying that. I am not saying that a healer cant add a bit of DPS once in a while, but your job is to heal and buff. You will pull more group DPS with a healer focusing on buffing, then worrying about adding another 5-10k. A good healer can probably add 7-9k DPS per damage dealer in an optimized group.

Your DPS should consist of lighting blockade, the occasional heavy attack to help with resources, and if you are on a templar, perhaps radiant destruction for burn phases. If you are doing much more than about 10k, I would wonder what buffs you are sacrificing. Sure there are some trash fights where you can go nuts on your HAs because you dont need to heal that much, but for most fights, your group will do better if you are focused on buffs.

AcadianPaladin

Magplar healer here who does not run high level content. I need to quest solo and, when helping others, respond to a wide variety of groups, situations and informal 'gaggles'.

My focus for damage is on skills that help those around me while also adding damage. That includes shards and purify. I do slot aedric spear sweeps for close in self-defense. I also slot Radiant Glory just because, under the right circumstances, it is too good not to. I also have a 'flex slot' that, when solo I run either Reflective Light (love the slowing) or Channeled Focus (more magicka regen for solo boss fights); when grouping though I can easily slot Blockade of Lightning (for the reasons Oreyn mentioned above) in there if I want.

That leaves EleDrain, Extended Ritual, Healing Springs, BoL as skills that are pure support.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Magplar healer here who does not run high level content. I need to quest solo and, when helping others, respond to a wide variety of groups, situations and informal 'gaggles'.

My focus for damage is on skills that help those around me while also adding damage. That includes shards and purify. I do slot aedric spear sweeps for close in self-defense. I also slot Radiant Glory just because, under the right circumstances, it is too good not to. I also have a 'flex slot' that, when solo I run either Reflective Light (love the slowing) or Channeled Focus (more magicka regen for solo boss fights); when grouping though I can easily slot Blockade of Lightning (for the reasons Oreyn mentioned above) in there if I want.

That leaves EleDrain, Extended Ritual, Healing Springs, BoL as skills that are pure support.

You are missing perhaps the biggest one of all, combat prayer. Well that and warhorn. If you arent running both of those skills as a healer, your group is leaving a lot of DPS on the table.

Consider 2 elite DPS pulling 40k single target. Just adding combat prayer to them on cooldown is an 8k DPS buff for your group with one skill.

leepalmer95

Basically your mean't to buff your groups damage and heal.

But if you can, a few dots don't hurt, walls, shards (if the dps/tank dont take them), vamps bane.

Use a purifying light every so often to add a bit of dps

Maybe even beam if a boss gets very low and your buffs are up and tanks ok on resources.

Rungar

I always aimed for 10k dps when I played my healer but I haven't used him for a bit.

I always found shards/lightning aoe/purifying light/heavy attack to be the most efficient.

mateoz

From my point of view I dont agree at all with the previous poster.

On my main healer I run combat prayer, warhorn, shards and necrotic orbs while pulling 12-22k DPS average 25-33% of group damage. the thing about healer DPS is you can bypass some boss phase like the planar inibitor where my team usually kill it b4 the blue phase if I do 20k+.

In really bad pug group I can reach 50-75% of group DPS, If I don't dps the group struggle, If I do everything is fine and the bow-bow dude think hes fine doing light attack...

DeadlyRecluse

In a pick up group dungeon run, the healer's ability to deal some damage is directly correlated to the DD's ability to get out of stupid (and the tank's ability to manage pack aggro).

If you get a tank that self sustains while keeping damage off of the DDs and the DDs don't eat any avoidable damage, you can keep buffs up and do solid damage.

If they don't...you can't.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

mateoz wrote: »

From my point of view I dont agree at all with the previous poster.

On my main healer I run combat prayer, warhorn, shards and necrotic orbs while pulling 12-22k DPS average 25-33% of group damage. the thing about healer DPS is you can bypass some boss phase like the planar inibitor where my team usually kill it b4 the blue phase if I do 20k+.

In really bad pug group I can reach 50-75% of group DPS, If I don't dps the group struggle, If I do everything is fine and the bow-bow dude think hes fine doing light attack...

If you are doing all of those things and pulling 33% of group DPS in a four man group, your other 2 DPS are terrible. Dont get me wrong, we have all been in that pug group where you end up basically healing and DPS the entire dungeon, but there is no way you should be doing a third of the damage in a good group.

KingYogi415

You should be keeping shards (dps morph) and wall of element up 100% those can be in rotation layed inbetween combat prayers and springs.

You can aslo slot sweeps once you are comfortable with quick bar swap casting.

Rotation could looks like. Shards, wall, bar swap, combat prayer, springs, bar swap, sweeps bar swap, springs and prayer. Then repeat.

Then you have harnes magic, bubbles and eledrain to all layer inbetween healz as well.

Cheers!

Illurian

As a magplar healer, my dps on bosses ranges between 7.5-10k. Typically around 9.5k.

DPS, however, is your lowest priority as a healer. Buffs/debuffs -> resource support -> heals -> dps.

If you are able to keep up your buffs and debuffs 100% of the time, after going through the above flowchart, focus any remaining time you have on dpsing. As a magplar, you can skip the flowchart entirely and throw out Jesus beams the moment the boss hits about 25-30%, assuming your group has decent DDs.

Asardes

If I queue as healer for a random group I do expect I need to pull at least 1/3 and often 2/3 of group DPS so I actually gear and skill as a DD and slot a HoT on my bar. That's because people that queue as DD usually suck at it.

Lumsdenml

Wow! Thanks, all, for the feedback. Didn't expect quite so much.. but then again, that is what I love about this community! I always felt that my priorities were "Buffs/debuffs -> resource support -> heals -> dps".... so glad to know that it seems to be the general consensus.... in the OP, the group I was in was a PUG group and had a DD that felt like he lived around 10% health at all times and I didn't get past "heal" priority... Put lots of strain on my mag regen! Also, had some good suggestions on rotations... some skills I don't have I'll need to skyshard hunt to add! Thanks again!

Kozai

I like to be able to provide at least some dps as a dungeon healer. How much is needed varies widely based on the dungeon and the rest of the team; with a high functioning team, you can often spend quite a bit of time doing dps, and I'll be doing about 15k or so. I can't reach over 20k even on a target dummy, since I stink at weaving or animation canceling, so that is a fair amount. It is somewhat easier as a Templar, or maybe a Warden, though I'm still pretty new on the latter, because you can do a decent job healing and buffing even on a "dps bar" like dual wield or Destruction staff. A good team also usually doesn't mind the odd death in exchange for substantially faster progress on things.


With a low functioning team, you may HAVE to spend time doing dps, or you'll never finish.

Trials are a different thing entirely, and there any dps tends to be incidental, like the DoT from throwing Shards to restore resources, and from Ritual of Retribution. I may only be doing a few k dps there, but am focusing a lot more on good rotations of Combat Prayer and such.

s7732425ub17_ESO

When running with two very good DPS character, the healer should not be focused on doing damage. When running with very scrub DPS players, the healer should be doing damage or else it'll take 2 hours to finish the dungeon.

ShedsHisTail

Lumsdenml wrote: »

Ran a dungeon healer a while ago and was told I was expected to add to group DPS and not buff/heal 100% of the time. Haven't run as a healer much since. What kind of DPS numbers is one expected to provide as a healer? 2k? 7k? 15k? Just wondering what is expected in the general community.

Personally, I run a Nightblade healer and utilize the various life transfer abilities pretty heavily, especially when clearing trash, so I've never clocked the numbers but I know I'm doing my part.

Mazbt

If I'm on one of my main geared dps toons doing a vet dungeon I would prefer a healer healing, buffing and helping with resource management. Only dps from ritual and shards, and popping bubbles.

MisterBigglesworth

Next time someone complains you're not doing enough DPS, just be like:
"BRB, reinvite me to group" and log onto:

Stannum

as DK heal i keep blockade and engulfing flames, optionally agr horn or destro ulti. And i also use Infernal guardian set that proc on igni shield almost on CD.

Morgul667

Id aim for 10 k DPS on top of the healing and buffing (which remain the main priority)

Flameheart

Lumsdenml wrote: »

"Buffs/debuffs -> resource support -> heals -> dps

That's it (maybe heals first because dead DDs won't do any dps). Otherwise I might just advice @Oreyn_Bearclaw's posts here to you. He is absolutely right with every statement he did. Especially in his answer to the guy who thinks he has to do 1/3 dps at the Planar Inhibitor because the other DDs are just lousy.

If I would guess a dps score for a healer in a good 4-man-group - DDs are pulling 30k+ dps (not all bosses allow that btw, some are harder for melees etc.) because most buffs are available (warhorns from tank and healer as it should be, Combat Prayer, lightning wall -> out of balance, bubbles and/or spears, ele drain) - which means short fights and players who are able to avoid inc damage, I would guess 5k to 10k dps as a healer is a good value.

The major concern in random groups is that many players there who queue up as a DD are really bad. Sometimes I think this is the reason why some prefer 3 DD + healer groups, just to hide their pitiful dps better. In most cases 3 DD + healer groups are less efficient or not more efficient as a trinity group, because blocking, running around and pulling mobs out of ground dots just wastes ressources and dps.

If you ever encounter a group where you read in chat:"we won't make it, because healer is doing too less dps (it might be unbelievable, but I even read that in chat concerning tanks...)" and it does not concern the portal phase (closing portals) at the Planar Inhibitor in WGT, I would just leave. Otherwise those players won't ever realize that it is them who have to improve and they will just queue up again and rely on the next dps-healer or good DD who can pull two weights.

My prefered education when I play a tank in a low dps group is to post the combat metrix score of my dps in relation to the group dps in group chat after every trash group and boss fight (my personal high score is over 50% as a tank in full support build in a 16 min fight at the endboss in EH 1...). In addition I ask uncomfortable questions like:

"I see no Elemental Blockade lying on the ground, although you both are magicka DDs with over 300 CPs. Is that intended?"

"Do you think it's a good idea shooting arrows with light attacks on a boss from 28m who has scripted attacks and will jump for you and therefore leaving all ground dots, which need to be reapplied ?"

"Hmm, I can't watch any Endless Hail and Caltrops on the trash groups. Do you realize that too ?"

"hmm ok, I can't watch Blockade, Curse and Sap Essence, but a heavy Lightning Staff attack should be possible, shouldn't it ?"

"hmm, I am tank and have to chainpot and play very risky due to chain-abuse of Balance. I couldn't watch a single shard drop or bubble flying over the whole instance. How is that possible with a templar healer and 2 mag templar DDs ?" (this really happened btw, it's no fantasy)

Call me an ***, but otherwise people won't learn.

Neaa

templar healer here...
in the normal Trials (vAA, vSO, vHRC) im between 8 - 15k dps depending on the Boss.
for the vHoF one, dmg is by far not that high since we Need a lot more healing there.
But in General i'd advice you not to Focus on DPS if you join a rnd Group or a Group
which you dont know well.

wahoozie

5-10k while keeping your group alive is plenty, but I have a feeling OP that you were in a pick up group with a bad dps that needed someone to make up for their poor damage.

LadyNalcarya

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

Next time someone complains you're not doing enough DPS, just be like:

"Good luck with finding another healer"
Fixed this for you.

There's so many dds and so many of them are actually nice and arent trying to enforce 2 roles on their healers, so why would you carry those who try to blame the healer in their lack of dps?

LadyNalcarya

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

mateoz wrote: »

From my point of view I dont agree at all with the previous poster.

On my main healer I run combat prayer, warhorn, shards and necrotic orbs while pulling 12-22k DPS average 25-33% of group damage. the thing about healer DPS is you can bypass some boss phase like the planar inibitor where my team usually kill it b4 the blue phase if I do 20k+.

In really bad pug group I can reach 50-75% of group DPS, If I don't dps the group struggle, If I do everything is fine and the bow-bow dude think hes fine doing light attack...

If you are doing all of those things and pulling 33% of group DPS in a four man group, your other 2 DPS are terrible. Dont get me wrong, we have all been in that pug group where you end up basically healing and DPS the entire dungeon, but there is no way you should be doing a third of the damage in a good group.

Pretty much this.
If a group cant pass the boss without healer and tank dpsing, there's something wrong with the dds. Dps checks in ESO dungeons are super low.

TheStealthDude

If your team isn't taking constant damage and doesn't need constant healing from you (remember, over healing has very little effect, outside of SPC buffs), then you should be doing some DPS. It really just depends on the group and how well they perform. Either way, you should always be doing something, whether it's healing or doing damage. Don't just be standing there doing nothing except casting rapid regen every few seconds (I have see healers actually do this).

DeHei

Lumsdenml wrote: »

Ran a dungeon healer a while ago and was told I was expected to add to group DPS and not buff/heal 100% of the time. Haven't run as a healer much since. What kind of DPS numbers is one expected to provide as a healer? 2k? 7k? 15k? Just wondering what is expected in the general community.

In 4er dungeons for example i try to go on nearly full DPS like 20k (singletarget) and a bit support. Its much faster with offtank, wo deal 10-15k (singletarget) DPS and 2 more DDs with 35k+ (singletarget) DPS. You can heal passiv with rapide regeneration, Ritual and purifying light and just need sometimes a active heal. We tested 1 offtank, wo heals just a bit and 3 DDs too and both had great results

But random you need to look, what guys you got.. most time is better to deal damage instead of buffing that guys.. with low Damage you can deal more DPS then a lot of these random DDs..

In a perfect group, you should support the DD DPS and make lesser DPS with Ritual of Retribution, Blazing Spear, Elemental Blockade, Vampires Bane, Puryfying light and heavy attacks..

In raids you can go to nearly total support. buts your choose

TheDoomsdayMonster

As a Healer, I DPS on my backbar when Devouring Swarm is up or whenever its a good time (everythings under control, my power is good, everyones health is full)...

When the Swarm is up, I can easily punch out 200k+ damage in that 5 second span...

After the Swarm is done, switch back to Healer mode, rebuild Ultimate, rinse and repeat...

Gaden.Phoenix

In Vet Dungeons a Healer is a dps loss. And all dps should slot a self heal regardless.

Vet Dungeons do not need a healer. Mostly only Trials require healers. A few dlc dungeons require a dps with an off healing skill.

Some Vet Dungeons require a tank, but most good groups get away with a good dps that slots in inner fire.

Full healers should do at least 10k dps on bosses for vet dungeons and DPS with off heals should do at least 15k for dungeons.

FYI: I started as a Templar healer. But found that I mostly play DPS with maybe rit of ret and jabs for heals, unless I do trials. Maybe BoF on dlc dungeons instead of inner light.

Low DPS in my guild is 10k, ok is 15k, you should average 20k and good is 25k. Most of my longer guild members can hit 30k. So I know my scales are skewed.

But we mostly train starting from cp160 on hard mode vet dungeons with 4 dps, in which 1 of that old timer dps slots inner fire as and when needed on specific bosses.

For me, I started ESO 2 months ago. Got to cp160 in 3 weeks. Started training hard mode vet after work for 5~6 weeks. And is my experience that (at least in my guild) there is no excuse for healers not to do good dps.

Tasear

You were given bad advice. Google "define healer". I don't believe it will say kills things, but instead saves things.