Warden feels like it needs something of a Buff...

ArchMikem

I'm not fully sure yet as my MagWarden is still just at lvl42 so I haven't equipped my 160 gear or a gold staff, but the skills already, for the purposes they're supposed to serve, just seem very lackluster when compared to competitor classes. The self heals are incredibly weak, I have to cast Enchanted Growth multiple times to get my health bar back to full. Arctic Blast's healing over time is negligible. The Ultimate however Healing Thicket is really nice for those "Oh crap" moments, and the low cost is a big plus. But the other Ultimate I use, Northern Storm I'm troubled to even call it an Ultimate. It's 5,000 damage per tick less than Elemental Storm for a cost of 200 is horrid. The only reason I keep choosing to use it is for it's 8% Max Magic buff since I'm a Khajiit and need as much as I can get.

Since ZOS touted this class as a new option for Healing, I was fully expecting it to share numbers with the Templar. A BoL equivalent at least. And I was hoping this would be the class that made a Frost Mage DPS build possible and competitive.

leepalmer95

The ice ult isn't meant for damage its more utility over damage.

The dmg is lowish but in return you get

Aoe 70% snare
Aoe walking major protection for you and everyone.

Then either 8% max magicka, which is strong
Or an Aoe stun after 3 ticks, which is pretty fast and also means it'll keep stunning more people if they walk in mid cast.


Its damage is lower but its utility is so much higher.

Taleof2Cities

I've been healing fine with my Warden. What's your gear and CP distribution?

If you're looking for DPS this is not the class for you ...

F7sus4

You've chosen the weakest Magicka DPS class on non-Magicka race and you're wondering you're lacking damage output...

Anyway... They already announced buffing Warden in latest ESOlive.

ArchMikem

F7sus4 wrote: »

You've chosen the weakest Magicka DPS class on non-Magicka race and you're wondering you're lacking damage output...

Anyway... They already announced buffing Warden in latest ESOlive.

I know full well about race passives and the stupid "meta". But all of my characters are Khajiit and my Magplar and MagSorc are much more powerful than this, (yes I know how Sorcs are, still) I'm just expressing my view on the Warden and how it doesn't compare well to other choices. I would've liked it to be better suited for DPS at least so playing it would be more attractive, but as of right now It just seems the character is going to be benched for good once I hit 50.

leepalmer95

ArchMikem wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

You've chosen the weakest Magicka DPS class on non-Magicka race and you're wondering you're lacking damage output...

Anyway... They already announced buffing Warden in latest ESOlive.

I know full well about race passives and the stupid "meta". But all of my characters are Khajiit and my Magplar and MagSorc are much more powerful than this, (yes I know how Sorcs are, still) I'm just expressing my view on the Warden and how it doesn't compare well to other choices. I would've liked it to be better suited for DPS at least so playing it would be more attractive, but as of right now It just seems the character is going to be benched for good once I hit 50.

Its the lowest dps pve wise.

But it does have some nice utility pvp wise and it also has very high burst with a fissure/ cliff racer and crushing shock hitting all at once.

Doctordarkspawn

If you make a game focused on 'everyone can DPS' there's no excuse for a character not living up to DPS potential.

Pick a side, Zeni. Either make a dedicated support class or buff Warden like you know you want to.

I dont even own Warden, I just know their gonna try and make as much money off it as possible.

Anunakis

wardens are useless anyway , pve pvp they die like flies, with dps lower then tank dps no real support , just fine for map exploring until some harder rat will ambush warden

alexkdd99

So much for zos going to make warden op to rake in the money.....

leepalmer95

ArchMikem wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

You've chosen the weakest Magicka DPS class on non-Magicka race and you're wondering you're lacking damage output...

Anyway... They already announced buffing Warden in latest ESOlive.

I know full well about race passives and the stupid "meta". But all of my characters are Khajiit and my Magplar and MagSorc are much more powerful than this, (yes I know how Sorcs are, still) I'm just expressing my view on the Warden and how it doesn't compare well to other choices. I would've liked it to be better suited for DPS at least so playing it would be more attractive, but as of right now It just seems the character is going to be benched for good once I hit 50.

/e double post.

Elusiin

You play warden with combos and high spell damage, you will destroy anyone and everything.

Proximity Detonation -> Scorch -> Bird -> Crushing Shock

All four spells, if done right, hit at the same time for massive, insta kill, burst damage. Meteor is also a good ultimate to weave in there.

MLGProPlayer

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

You play warden with combos and high spell damage, you will destroy anyone and everything.

Proximity Detonation -> Scorch -> Bird -> Crushing Shock

All four spells, if done right, hit at the same time for massive, insta kill, burst damage. Meteor is also a good ultimate to weave in there.

If everyone and everything is a skeever, sure.

Wifeaggro13

ArchMikem wrote: »

I'm not fully sure yet as my MagWarden is still just at lvl42 so I haven't equipped my 160 gear or a gold staff, but the skills already, for the purposes they're supposed to serve, just seem very lackluster when compared to competitor classes. The self heals are incredibly weak, I have to cast Enchanted Growth multiple times to get my health bar back to full. Arctic Blast's healing over time is negligible. The Ultimate however Healing Thicket is really nice for those "Oh crap" moments, and the low cost is a big plus. But the other Ultimate I use, Northern Storm I'm troubled to even call it an Ultimate. It's 5,000 damage per tick less than Elemental Storm for a cost of 200 is horrid. The only reason I keep choosing to use it is for it's 8% Max Magic buff since I'm a Khajiit and need as much as I can get.

Since ZOS touted this class as a new option for Healing, I was fully expecting it to share numbers with the Templar. A BoL equivalent at least. And I was hoping this would be the class that made a Frost Mage DPS build possible and competitive.

Warden feels like toast with out butter , just a bland class that was in Alpha that they took out and resold

VinyParsley2016

Sorc feels like it needs something of a Buff!
DK feels like it needs something of a Buff!
NB feels like it needs something of a Buff!
Templar feels like it needs something of a Buff!

And they all feel like Warden needs something of a Nerf!!!!

ComboBreaker88

Wardens are op. I ran I to a stam healer warden and we did vet cradle on hard mode with a picj up group. Needs a buff. Lmao. It needs a serious nerf.

Sneaky-Snurr

Are you testing in PvE? Because Wardens perform very well in PvP.

ArchMikem

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

Wardens are op. I ran I to a stam healer warden and we did vet cradle on hard mode with a picj up group. Needs a buff. Lmao. It needs a serious nerf.

wut?

lagrue

ArchMikem wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

You've chosen the weakest Magicka DPS class on non-Magicka race and you're wondering you're lacking damage output...

Anyway... They already announced buffing Warden in latest ESOlive.

I know full well about race passives and the stupid "meta". But all of my characters are Khajiit and my Magplar and MagSorc are much more powerful than this, (yes I know how Sorcs are, still) I'm just expressing my view on the Warden and how it doesn't compare well to other choices. I would've liked it to be better suited for DPS at least so playing it would be more attractive, but as of right now It just seems the character is going to be benched for good once I hit 50.

There's a major difference between something being meta and something fitting its niche. Khajit are Stam based race - somebody saying you picked the wrong race isn't them trying to push meta on you - it's them being realistic. You made a poor choice in race for the type of character you want to create..

zyk

I think your thought process should have gone like...

"I'm not fully sure yet as my MagWarden is still just at lvl42 so I haven't equipped my 160 gear or a gold staff, therefore I'm not going to post about this class I'm inexperienced with and know little about."

ArchMikem

lagrue wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

You've chosen the weakest Magicka DPS class on non-Magicka race and you're wondering you're lacking damage output...

Anyway... They already announced buffing Warden in latest ESOlive.

I know full well about race passives and the stupid "meta". But all of my characters are Khajiit and my Magplar and MagSorc are much more powerful than this, (yes I know how Sorcs are, still) I'm just expressing my view on the Warden and how it doesn't compare well to other choices. I would've liked it to be better suited for DPS at least so playing it would be more attractive, but as of right now It just seems the character is going to be benched for good once I hit 50.

There's a major difference between something being meta and something fitting its niche. Khajit are Stam based race - somebody saying you picked the wrong race isn't them trying to push meta on you - it's them being realistic. You made a poor choice in race for the type of character you want to create..

What makes it wrong? That it's not a Race that has passives for that playstyle? Cause that's called the Meta. But even end game build developers and number crunchers have stated you don't NEED the "right" Race to do well, and yet the Warden regardless suffers the most.

Besides I didn't make a "poor choice". I made a choice that suited myself. Besides this game would've died a long time ago if the Developers intended to give you the option to fail at the game immediately out of the character creation screen.

KochDerDamonen

lagrue wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

You've chosen the weakest Magicka DPS class on non-Magicka race and you're wondering you're lacking damage output...

Anyway... They already announced buffing Warden in latest ESOlive.

I know full well about race passives and the stupid "meta". But all of my characters are Khajiit and my Magplar and MagSorc are much more powerful than this, (yes I know how Sorcs are, still) I'm just expressing my view on the Warden and how it doesn't compare well to other choices. I would've liked it to be better suited for DPS at least so playing it would be more attractive, but as of right now It just seems the character is going to be benched for good once I hit 50.

There's a major difference between something being meta and something fitting its niche. Khajit are Stam based race - somebody saying you picked the wrong race isn't them trying to push meta on you - it's them being realistic. You made a poor choice in race for the type of character you want to create..

@lagrue Except the whole point of their post was to say that they have other MagDPS that are Khajiit, and from that baseline find the MagWarden to underperform. As is no secret to the rest of us, Warden is underperforming in the mDPS role

apostate9

Anunakis wrote: »

wardens are useless anyway , pve pvp they die like flies, with dps lower then tank dps no real support , just fine for map exploring until some harder rat will ambush warden

You're doing it wrong.

lagrue

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

You've chosen the weakest Magicka DPS class on non-Magicka race and you're wondering you're lacking damage output...

Anyway... They already announced buffing Warden in latest ESOlive.

I know full well about race passives and the stupid "meta". But all of my characters are Khajiit and my Magplar and MagSorc are much more powerful than this, (yes I know how Sorcs are, still) I'm just expressing my view on the Warden and how it doesn't compare well to other choices. I would've liked it to be better suited for DPS at least so playing it would be more attractive, but as of right now It just seems the character is going to be benched for good once I hit 50.

There's a major difference between something being meta and something fitting its niche. Khajit are Stam based race - somebody saying you picked the wrong race isn't them trying to push meta on you - it's them being realistic. You made a poor choice in race for the type of character you want to create..

@lagrue Except the whole point of their post was to say that they have other MagDPS that are Khajiit, and from that baseline find the MagWarden to underperform. As is no secret to the rest of us, Warden is underperforming in the mDPS role

And I never contested that point. It doesn't change the fact that the Khajit isn't meant for Magicka gameplay. This is like playing Final Fantasy and trying to equip a White Mage with a greatsword - they just don't go together - but that isn't what meta is.

When something is meant to fit a role, that is what it's meant for. Meta is min/maxing those qualities with a shoehorned build, much much different than blatantly gimping yourself. If the choice "suits" OP that's fine - it's still a poor choice in character optimization, still not meta to say that Khajit shouldn't play Magicka, that's not their strength.

Avran_Sylt

Though this probably wouldn't be a buff , since you know, AI intelligence. But I really hoped that the animal companions skill line had more... companions. the Growing Swarm spawning a fetcher swarm once it expires after a full duration, scorch placing a synergy on an enemy that allows an ally to summon a shalk. the bear being a constant companion, but having temporary AI allies that are more than just a fancy re-skinned ability.

Sanctum74

The warden is never going to be a great group healer, but it is very capable of some serious burst damage if you get your rotation down. The damage rotation is also where you get your self heals from. Sorry I dont remember all the skill names, but there is a skill that heals you for every light and heavy attack. This helps as a buff if you are weaving.

Another source of your heals is using your animal abilities. There is a passive which heals you each time an animal is unsummoned or dies. So my typical damage rotation would be deep fissure, cliff racer, light attack, fletcher infection, light attack and spam cliff racer and light attack until fissure explosion goes off then repeat.

To get the best damage and healing you need to be strict with your rotation and base it off the fissure explosion. Every one of those animal skill attacks and light attacks will heal you so its important to keep the pressure up to stay healed. You can also use leaching vines with healing ward and that should make you pretty tanky and contribute to your healing. Also the fletcher infection can be placed on multiple targets so as each one expires you will get healing.

To get your damage up you really should be high or dark elf and have all your attributes in magic. The necropotence set is also recomended and will proc off the blue betty skill which gives you spell power, magic back, and a cleanse all at no skill cost. Mix necro with kags, julianos, war maiden, or even shacklebreaker and you will be wreckng things if you follow a good rotation.

My rotation is based mostly for pvp, but for pve mobs you can also add winters revenge and wall of elements for a ton of aoe damage. Hope this helps, just please dont use it against me in pvp xD

Seraphayel

ArchMikem wrote: »

The self heals are incredibly weak, I have to cast Enchanted Growth multiple times to get my health bar back to full. Arctic Blast's healing over time is negligible.

The self heals are not weak. I think it depends on the content you're doing (PvE or PvP) but Warden Selfheals are amazing and maybe one of the best in game. Bond with Nature (Animal Companion passive) is a nice passive heal that works with your AC skills. If you're not using them, that's your problem to be honest. Swarm on 2, 3, 4 mobs and you're getting a nice healing when it ends, the mob dies or you reapply the skill before it runs out. Arctic Wind is not bad at all. It heals for 20% of your total health. That's pretty good. The problem here is maybe the HoT duration and / or the Magicka cost of the skill cause it's pretty expensive. Have you tried Leeching Vines? That skill is amazing! Living Vines (the skill before the morph) is already a great self healing skill but the Lifesteal morph is just great. Every mob that's attacking you gets Minor Lifesteal for 10 seconds (e.g. when Vines have 1s duration left and the mob attacks you then still gets a 10s debuff). 600 Health doesn't sound like much but when it's applied to 2 or 3 mobs and you're AoEing it is (it's proccing from DoTs as well so having Swarm on them will heal you from Lifesteal and give you the healing of the passive Bond with Nature). When you're killing groups of mobs Warden has some amazing CC / Self Heal capabilities. I never had any issues I think and I am level 28. The problem here is rather fighting mobs with strong ST damage skills and healing that up.

ArchMikem wrote: »

But the other Ultimate I use, Northern Storm I'm troubled to even call it an Ultimate. It's 5,000 damage per tick less than Elemental Storm for a cost of 200 is horrid. The only reason I keep choosing to use it is for it's 8% Max Magic buff since I'm a Khajiit and need as much as I can get.

As some already mentioned, this skill isn't meant for pure DPS. It's a great CC / Utility Ultimate. I agree the cost is too high, they should lower it to at least 150 but it's still really good when you use it not only for DPS but for protection and CC.

ArchMikem wrote: »

Since ZOS touted this class as a new option for Healing, I was fully expecting it to share numbers with the Templar. A BoL equivalent at least. And I was hoping this would be the class that made a Frost Mage DPS build possible and competitive.

Pretty sure a Warden Healer can compete with a Templar Healer easily. We've got a healing skill that's so much better than BoL, it's called Budding Seeds. Yes, the skill works a bit different but it has some advantages compared to BoL: 1) it heals for a crap ton, 2) it heals all players inside of it and 3) it is super cheap to cast. In PvP using this could be tricky but in PvE this is so much better than BoL.

Seraphayel

lagrue wrote: »

There's a major difference between something being meta and something fitting its niche. Khajit are Stam based race - somebody saying you picked the wrong race isn't them trying to push meta on you - it's them being realistic. You made a poor choice in race for the type of character you want to create..

This whole discussion about meta is making me sick.

9/10 guys using "meta" are not capable of using builds they created by themselves, they're just copying everything some players like Alcast, Deltia (thanks for your videos) or whoever came up with are promoting on their YouTube channels. They're not thinking about equipment, sets, skills, they're just using cookie cutter builds they learn by watching videos. That's what meta is.

This has nothing to do with realism by the way. He chose Khajit because he wanted to and it's totally fine and still viable (if balance in the game would work as it should). He did not make a poor choice, he made the right choice for himself. Just because the majority of players doesn't care much about what they play as long as they're playing the meta doesn't mean that all players are like this. I'm playing Breton by heart and I really don't care if it's THE META or not it still works fine with everything (like every other race).

lagrue wrote: »

And I never contested that point. It doesn't change the fact that the Khajit isn't meant for Magicka gameplay. This is like playing Final Fantasy and trying to equip a White Mage with a greatsword - they just don't go together - but that isn't what meta is.

When something is meant to fit a role, that is what it's meant for. Meta is min/maxing those qualities with a shoehorned build, much much different than blatantly gimping yourself. If the choice "suits" OP that's fine - it's still a poor choice in character optimization, still not meta to say that Khajit shouldn't play Magicka, that's not their strength.

Who says that? Just because it doesn't have any Magicka passives it's not meant for Magicka gameplay? That's just wrong. Are other classes some % better because of their racial passives when it comes to Magicka? Yes, sure. Does this make Khajit useless for Magicka builds? No, it doesn't. Your comparison with Final Fantasy is just wrong and can't be applied to the situation we have here with racial passives.

No race / class is meant to fit a role. Every class and race can do everything. Some are better in A, some are better in B, all of them can succeed in A and B nonetheless.

"Blatantly gimping yourself"? Well, that's my opinion of meta-users that get their builds from the internet without even thinking about them.

Seraphayel

F7sus4 wrote: »

Anyway... They already announced buffing Warden in latest ESOlive.

@F7sus4

I haven't watched ESO Live, did they mention this in the June 9th stream? Did you remember what they said about it?

MLGProPlayer

One thing I noticed about warden is that you can't animation cancel a lot of their skills. This is part of what's holding their DPS back. If every other class can animation cancel, then of course warden is going to lose DPS to them.

Seraphayel

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

One thing I noticed about warden is that you can't animation cancel a lot of their skills. This is part of what's holding their DPS back. If every other class can animation cancel, then of course warden is going to lose DPS to them.

Another good point. Some animations are just taking forever, e.g. Arctic Wind.

Vaoh

Yeah they're quite bad. Horrible atm for PvE DPS.

In PvP they can be strong and provide useful group support when used by a good player. Literally all of them tend to be easy kills though from my experience in BGs.

To put it plainly:
1. In PvP they are decent - stronger when in a small group for the unique support they provide, but generally become a bit weaker when alone
2. In PvE they are absolutely, unquestionably abysmal for DPS. You will see this a lot more if trying to pull raid-competitive DPS. Anything a Magicka Warden can do, all other classes can do with significantly more DPS.

Tank/Healer-wise they are actually quite strong though. Only issue here is that Templar is still the "best" healer and Dragonknight still the "best" tank. Wardens are good though and imo it is best to have at least one support Warden in group.