Should "Cycle Preferred Enemy Target" act as the default "Command Pet"?

Avran_Sylt

So the white outlined "Preferred Enemy Target" will be the focus of the pet aggro.

This way it'll give the user a good indicator of what your pets are attacking (the soft white glow), it can target enemies that are behind other enemies (the cycling function). It'll allow ease of use on gamepads (right stick click/hold) as well as preventing heavy attacks (a resource management skill) from always applying pet aggro to a particular target (Not to mention heavy attacks can be body blocked by other targets in front of your intended target).

Ghost-Shot

Sounds Good

They should make tab target actually make that person your target first.

Avran_Sylt

@Ghost-Shot

What do you mean, exactly.

idk

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Ghost-Shot

What do you mean, exactly.

He means tab target is "preceded" target. It doesn't mean attacks will actually hit that target. It's a soft tab target.

Avran_Sylt

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

Oh. well that's fine. if my target is standing behind something I wouldn't expect to always hit them.

idk

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

Oh. well that's fine. if my target is standing behind something I wouldn't expect to always hit them.

Which would be the reasoning that pet targeting would not use your suggestion.

SanTii.92

Sounds Good

Yes, but command back should overrule the tab target.

Avran_Sylt

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

Oh. well that's fine. if my target is standing behind something I wouldn't expect to always hit them.

Which would be the reasoning that pet targeting would not use your suggestion.

Commanding a pet to attack a target won't automatically cause the pet to attack them, they've got to get in range/LOS of them first, it'll simply set the pet's aggro on the "Preferred Target".


@SanTii.92

There a button for that?

Edit: did some more reading on the subject, and yeah, have it so that Left Trigger/ Block while holding(stick)/pressing the tab targetting will cause the pets to return to you/lose aggro

Ghost-Shot

Sounds Good

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Ghost-Shot

What do you mean, exactly.

The best example I can give is from PvP, I main a DK so I am regularly leaping to open group engagements, I can tab target someone in the middle of an enemy group yet when I cast leap it sends to some random who happened to walk in front of me when I cast leap, making that ult utterly useless. If you have someone tab targeted and they are still in your los, that should be where your abilities go.

Avran_Sylt

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Ghost-Shot

What do you mean, exactly.

The best example I can give is from PvP, I main a DK so I am regularly leaping to open group engagements, I can tab target someone in the middle of an enemy group yet when I cast leap it sends to some random who happened to walk in front of me when I cast leap, making that ult utterly useless. If you have someone tab targeted and they are still in your los, that should be where your abilities go.

Oh. Well in that case I think the issue is that the leap is a target requiring ability. TBH I think it should still stay the way it is (soft-lock) but leap becomes a selectable AoE target rather than a single target ability (think how volley targeting works).

idk

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

Oh. well that's fine. if my target is standing behind something I wouldn't expect to always hit them.

Which would be the reasoning that pet targeting would not use your suggestion.

Commanding a pet to attack a target won't automatically cause the pet to attack them, they've got to get in range/LOS of them first, it'll simply set the pet's aggro on the "Preferred Target".


@SanTii.92

There a button for that?

Edit: did some more reading on the subject, and yeah, have it so that Left Trigger/ Block while holding(stick)/pressing the tab targetting will cause the pets to return to you/lose aggro

Yes. There is already the ability tfor command the pet to attack a specific target and to call them back. Additionally as I mentioned previously a heavy attack on a target will command the pet to attack the target.

Since tab targeting in this game is soft and persists when the target is out of range and behind a wall it should not be used the command the pet in itself. Mostly it does not guarantee you'll hit the target. It's just not reliable.

Ghost-Shot

Sounds Good

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Ghost-Shot

What do you mean, exactly.

The best example I can give is from PvP, I main a DK so I am regularly leaping to open group engagements, I can tab target someone in the middle of an enemy group yet when I cast leap it sends to some random who happened to walk in front of me when I cast leap, making that ult utterly useless. If you have someone tab targeted and they are still in your los, that should be where your abilities go.

Oh. Well in that case I think the issue is that the leap is a target requiring ability. TBH I think it should still stay the way it is (soft-lock) but leap becomes a selectable AoE target rather than a single target ability (think how volley targeting works).

I agree with that change to leap, it would be nice to just say I want to leap over here, but I think tab target should be a hard tab target like it was just before they changed it with the console launch, I think it was actually patch 1.6 when it changed. It obviously has to follow los rules but I can't support sacrificing game play consistency for the sake of realism. I understand that irl if someone walked between your target and your sword that the sword would hit that person instead but a game plays better when you can target who you intend to.

Avran_Sylt

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

Yeah, on PC, not on console (I was unaware of the "deaggro" function via y+right click). My suggestion for the tab targeting is because tab targeting is 100% reliable. your attacks are not reliable, but applying the "preferred target" glow is 100% reliable. I'm not sure you understand what I fully mean.

I'm saying "When you have that glow on the target, your pet will try to attack the glowing target (tab-targeted target)" not "When you have the glow on your target, and you attack them, your pet also attacks them"

Avran_Sylt

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Ghost-Shot

What do you mean, exactly.

The best example I can give is from PvP, I main a DK so I am regularly leaping to open group engagements, I can tab target someone in the middle of an enemy group yet when I cast leap it sends to some random who happened to walk in front of me when I cast leap, making that ult utterly useless. If you have someone tab targeted and they are still in your los, that should be where your abilities go.

Oh. Well in that case I think the issue is that the leap is a target requiring ability. TBH I think it should still stay the way it is (soft-lock) but leap becomes a selectable AoE target rather than a single target ability (think how volley targeting works).

I agree with that change to leap, it would be nice to just say I want to leap over here, but I think tab target should be a hard tab target like it was just before they changed it with the console launch, I think it was actually patch 1.6 when it changed. It obviously has to follow los rules but I can't support sacrificing game play consistency for the sake of realism. I understand that irl if someone walked between your target and your sword that the sword would hit that person instead but a game plays better when you can target who you intend to.

But isn't it following LOS rules but in accordance to the "invisible" player hitbox as it is currently? Wouldn't your suggestion be violating those same LOS rules?

idk

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

Yeah, on PC, not on console (I was unaware of the "deaggro" function via y+right click). My suggestion for the tab targeting is because tab targeting is 100% reliable. your attacks are not reliable, but applying the "preferred target" glow is 100% reliable. I'm not sure you understand what I fully mean.

I'm saying "When you have that glow on the target, your pet will try to attack the glowing target (tab-targeted target)" not "When you have the glow on your target, and you attack them, your pet also attacks them"

It tab targeting is not 100% reliable. That is where the issue is.

Consoles can HA like the rest of us and it's simple and many of us are doing it anyhow.

Avran_Sylt

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

Tab targeting IS reliable. It targets the nearest selected enemy to your cursor, then repeated presses cycle through available targets under your cursor.

idk

Being able to select a target to highlight, make preferred, is reliable.

Being able to damage the selected preferred target is not by design.

Ghost-Shot

Sounds Good

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Ghost-Shot

What do you mean, exactly.

The best example I can give is from PvP, I main a DK so I am regularly leaping to open group engagements, I can tab target someone in the middle of an enemy group yet when I cast leap it sends to some random who happened to walk in front of me when I cast leap, making that ult utterly useless. If you have someone tab targeted and they are still in your los, that should be where your abilities go.

Oh. Well in that case I think the issue is that the leap is a target requiring ability. TBH I think it should still stay the way it is (soft-lock) but leap becomes a selectable AoE target rather than a single target ability (think how volley targeting works).

I agree with that change to leap, it would be nice to just say I want to leap over here, but I think tab target should be a hard tab target like it was just before they changed it with the console launch, I think it was actually patch 1.6 when it changed. It obviously has to follow los rules but I can't support sacrificing game play consistency for the sake of realism. I understand that irl if someone walked between your target and your sword that the sword would hit that person instead but a game plays better when you can target who you intend to.

But isn't it following LOS rules but in accordance to the "invisible" player hitbox as it is currently? Wouldn't your suggestion be violating those same LOS rules?

What I'm saying is basically that players wouldn't count as an los object when another is tab targeted but it would still recognize los from rocks/trees/walls/etc.

Avran_Sylt

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Being able to select a target to highlight, make preferred, is reliable.

Being able to damage the selected preferred target is not by design.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

Exactly, the COMMAND should be reliable, I.E "Hey bear, go attack the [snip] back there" the ATTACK I.E. from the bear is dependent on where the bear is and if he can move there or not. Does it have to move around an obstacle?

[Edited to remove profanity]

NordJitsu

Sounds Good

Yes, the current pet commands are clunky and unwieldy and it's hard to keep track of what your pets are attacking.

Avran_Sylt

@Ghost-Shot

For some skills, yes, I agree. Snipe arcs, therefor it should be able to target players behind other players (assuming you can still see them). Teleport strike much the same. Other skills like Bow basic and heavy attacks and crystal shards should not ignore players as a LOS object.

idk

The current command is reliable within the design of targeting in the game.

Or look at it from this perspective. If priority target is used to command the pet then the pet should only be able to damage that target if your able to damage the target with a single target damage skill. It should have better targeting than the rest of our skills.

That would lead to serious and justified objections if sorcs had better targeting than Templars and DKs and such.

idk

Regardless. The issue is the idea is trying to take a targeting system that by design is to be less that 100% reliable and then make it 100% reliable for certain specific skills.

If something is intended to be less than 100% reliable why should it then become 100% reliable for those specific few class based skills?

Avran_Sylt

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

The "Pet" is a separate entity, and can move independently from the sorc. The sorc has no better targeting on their own skills than anything else. If the sorc can't currently hit the target, that does not necessarily apply to the pet if the pet's LOS and attack range is viable to said target, the opposite is also true.

Avran_Sylt

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Regardless. The issue is the idea is trying to take a targeting system that by design is to be less that 100% reliable and then make it 100% reliable for certain specific skills.

If something is intended to be less than 100% reliable why should it then become 100% reliable for those specific few class based skills?

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

I think I know where your going with this, but at what point is the pet basic attack more reliable than a player basic attack.

idk

I use priority target and can tell you it works great. I do a heavy attack and the pet runs wild and damages the target.

Very reliable. Works just as well on PC as console.

Zos would likely not pursue the idea presented in this thread because it opens a slippery slope they'd be smart not to test.

Avran_Sylt

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

Right, Giles, let me set up a scenario for you:

I have a pet, I set it to attack a target that is not the one that I'm currently attacking (using whatever method). I want to keep my pet attacking the other target, but my resources are low, my potion is on cooldown, and I would prefer to heavy attack my target (but not the other target) in order to regain my resource while still keeping my pet attacking the other target. Tell me, is this possible under the current system. Using both the Gamepad and the Keyboard/Mouse.

Ghost-Shot

Sounds Good

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Ghost-Shot

For some skills, yes, I agree. Snipe arcs, therefor it should be able to target players behind other players (assuming you can still see them). Teleport strike much the same. Other skills like Bow basic and heavy attacks and crystal shards should not ignore players as a LOS object.

I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

idk

Should not be an issue. The pet doesn't change targets unless you tell it to though the pet is not guaranteed to keep agro.

If the player for some reason needs to do HAs while milking the first mob they can HA what the pet is on. It's really all about learning to command the pet.

Further, that tab target may mess you up. It works quirky sometimes. I've seen it go as far as turning my character around to attack what I had tabbed.

Regardless. The HA to set the pet target is working well. Was a great addition to the game.

I respect you have an opinion different than mine but I still fail to understand the logic behind something that is intended to not be 100% reliable would be 100% reliable for certain specific class skills.

That hasn't been answered. I don't see how 3 classes would get preferential treatment with the targeting of certain class skills. I certainly don't see Zos opening the door to change targeting for the 4 class skills involved when everything else is unchanged.

Avran_Sylt

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

Tab targeting is a soft-lock.... It won't auto turn you to your highlighted target.....

Pets WILL CHANGE TARGET (set their Aggro, which is what we are discussing) to whatever you've most recently heavy attacked.... based on the recent change...

pet basic attacks and movements are not considered "skills" they are the basic attacks inherent with the pet. Summoning them is a skill, using their ability is a skill, pet command is universal to all pets and is not delegated to each individual ability. (though it'd be cool if it was) and as such I don't believe it should be considered a skill at all, as player movement and decision to attack a particular target is not considered a character skill. So neither should pet movement or aggro direction.

Avran_Sylt

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Should not be an issue. The pet doesn't change targets unless you tell it to though the pet is not guaranteed to keep agro.

If the player for some reason needs to do HAs while milking the first mob they can HA what the pet is on. It's really all about learning to command the pet.

Further, that tab target may mess you up. It works quirky sometimes. I've seen it go as far as turning my character around to attack what I had tabbed.

Regardless. The HA to set the pet target is working well. Was a great addition to the game.

I respect you have an opinion different than mine but I still fail to understand the logic behind something that is intended to not be 100% reliable would be 100% reliable for certain specific class skills.

That hasn't been answered. I don't see how 3 classes would get preferential treatment with the targeting of certain class skills. I certainly don't see Zos opening the door to change targeting for the 4 class skills involved when everything else is unchanged.

Also giles, you never answered my question about whether or not my scenario was possible with the current design.