Maelstrom loot drastically need a change

RoyJade

Yes, an another maelstrom loot topic. Again. Because, seriously, nearly everyone know that how the loot is horrendous.

Let's face it : not a lot of people love maelstrom, and I don't even speak about the loot. This is a >solo< challenge, when most people are on this >MMO< because they want to do >group< content. But hey, let's say that ESO can give nearly everything including solo content for those who like that. It's fine.
But really. In order to be fully optimized for >group< content, you often need maelstrom weapons, who drop on >solo< content. Well, okay, let's be bored for some hours during these we'll loot these weapons. And no. No because random is 90% of the job. The mechanism themselves are mostly skill with a few random event (a poisonous spore who spawn just under the shielder mob just when the argonian behemoth begin his howl, for example), but we are totally dependent of the rng for the loot. And the loot is bad, really bad, horrendously bad. It's bad nearly everywhere, but the solo component, the difficulty and the length of the run made maelstrom far worse than everything else.

I have now 497 maelstrom weapons. Mostly every of these are useless. I have one precise fire staff (my only other one is defending), two precise bows (and 34 defender/energized/decisive), one energized lightning (only lightning), one nirn axe (only axe/dagger with precise, nirn, infused or sharpened trait), every single swords, hammers and resto staffs with every possible traits, and a lot of 2H with one sharpened (axe), one nirn and one precise (both hammers). This week, I tried to place two of my characters in leaderboard. As usual, I get trash reward in chest, and now I got my leaderboard reward :
- one defending greataxe with the characters who have done it with my sharpened greataxe. Just this one is a joke. "Oh, you've done it with a good weapon ? So I give the same weapon, but with a weaker trait, you'll be happy".
- my first non resto sharpened staff. Of course, a ice staff.

And ice of the cake, I got two gold rings. Para bellum and hunt master. Both in arcane. Seriously.


ZOS, we don't like to be rewarded by nothing or joke item. You won't like to be paid by monopoly money. That's how we feel, for most players who don't do maelstrom for pure fun but instead in order to have more fun with the rest of the content. Yes, maelstrom weapons are no more the absolute king, but they're still extremely strong, so needed for most endgame players.
Maestrom reward skill with the leaderboard, but the leaderboard as the final chest only reward luck. Luck is NOT a good bait for long term. Luck is good when it give things a little faster sometime, but never when it's the only way to get what we looking for. As before, you won't like to be paid only if a random factor has decided that you earned it or not. Reward skill, please.




But I won't only complain without some solutions ideas. So here is some suggestions.

• You want to keep the luck factor, but still give a much needed change to long term rewards ? Keep everything as it actually is, but add "maelstrom" crafting station to the arena. When we deconstruct a maelstrom weapon on these crafting stations, we get one maelstrom emblem. When we craft a weapon infused with enough emblem, we get a new maelstrom weapon. One emblem give us the "choice" of the style (maestrom, of course). More emblems (the choice of the number is yours, I would say 5) give us the choice of the weapon, and even more (perhaps 20?) would also give us the opportunity to choose the trait. Like that, a player know that if he isn't luck, he will have his maelstrom perfect weapons with 20 runs, and he won't stop after a few runs because of the random factor.
  
• You want to do a new full token system ? Give a maelstrom emblem on the final chest. Give to Baron Moves-Like-a-Smoking-Plume the possibility to trade these emblems for a container. Those containers would vary in price, and contain either a random weapon with random trait (one emblem), a chosen weapon with a random trait (more emblems) or a chosen weapon with a chosen trait (even more emblem). For leaderboard reward, give a golden emblem who can buy the same thing but as gold quality, and a highly diminished price.

You may even unbound these emblems, giving the possibility to trade them and boost the economy. In this case, you must lock the crafting station behind an achievement (preferably behind the veteran completion achievement), or give the dialog option to Baron only at the end of a veteran maelstrom run. But that's not necessary, even with a bound token system a lot of players would be happy.

Please, @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and all other ZOS members in this forum, we really need to be rewarded for hard content. Most of us love the game but for a lot of us, the pure rng system is just a pain. You were thinking about a token system, You've said it before Morrowind, but it seem to have disappears since. Please, reconsider it seriously. And if you have something serious about it for the next dlc, give us hope, say it the fastest you can.

Ajaxduo

I grinded MSA heavily on it's release and after several months I ended up with only sharp axe and dagger to my name, I lost the will to put myself through it over and over. I don't mind solo content but with all of the issues from rng to lag it's just not worth sinking the hours into. You can get a pretty close setup just using 4 pc trials jewelry + staff. If they implement a token system I'd be right at it again, as it stands I'm not being rewarded for my effort.

Feanor

ZOS has acknowledged loot distribution is generally a "pain point". So expect a solution somewhere in Q3. 2023.

LegendaryMage

I needed a sharpened inferno for a long time, ever since they changed fire staves to give more single target damage. So I didn't do it for many months because of how many runs I did before that. Then one day I needed to test a setup, went to vma because it was very late and everyone was offline, and completed it 'casually' with many deaths, many breaks, barely awake and guess what? A fire destro dropped...

Guess what happened after that the next day? Another one dropped. Two runs in a row, makes me wonder if this RNG is fixed somehow.

But, ultimately RNG is purely luck based with these drops. You have players that still didn't get what they need after 100s of runs, and you have players such as myself that have tasted the good side. I don't like that it's like that, I think we need a token system incorporated with the merchant and then a loot box somewhere nearby to use those and get what we need.

One loot box for every weapon type, maybe next to each boss bust around you in the end. If you do it (for example) 10 times, you should be able to get what you want.

And ZOS needs to re-balance weapon and armor traits anyway, for PVP most are garbage.

Acid_Glow

I totally agree this game needs drastic improvement of RNG or some type of certainty.

khele23eb17_ESO

Token system is the way. In a stacked RNG system like this someone will always get screwed.

Franieck

What if you could get maelstrom weapons in normal MA but only in crap traits?(like 50%, 25% change of dropping weapons) and in vet you'd get 100% of a weapon, no training and no weighted traits, stamina chars get 60% chance of stamina weapons, magicka chars 60% magicka weapons? I think that could make the whole arena experience more pleasant. Of course token system would be MUCH better, but since this might be tough for zos to pull off, changing drops rates could be a temporary solution

Skjoldur

Feanor wrote: »

ZOS has acknowledged loot distribution is generally a "pain point". So expect a solution somewhere in Q3. 2023.

I am not sure if I should call you pessimistic or optimistic... ;-)

I reckon a timeline like this:

2017 ZOS acknowledges the problem
2019 ZOS fixes all the problems with loot
2019 players complain about an even worse loot system
2020 players complain again
2021 ZOS asks whats still wrong
2022 ZOS fixes the loot again
2023 players complain that it is still not working
2024+ silence

Or any combination, frequency or repetition of the above.

Xander3Zero

This is just a question related to loot from vMA in general...

Do maelstrom weapons only drop from the final chest after arena 9? Or do they have a chance to drop from any chest after each round? Whichever one it is, do you get like 1 weapon per complete run? Or multiple?

Basically I have never run vMA, I have completed Normal MA (I just hit cp160 a little while ago) and I am wondering if there is any benefit to starting to do some of the easier vMA rounds, or if you need to do a complete run to receive maelstrom weapons?

kuro-dono

main reward from maelstorm is that you learn to play like an pro.

Franieck

Xander3Zero wrote: »

This is just a question related to loot from vMA in general...

Do maelstrom weapons only drop from the final chest after arena 9? Or do they have a chance to drop from any chest after each round? Whichever one it is, do you get like 1 weapon per complete run? Or multiple?

Basically I have never run vMA, I have completed Normal MA (I just hit cp160 a little while ago) and I am wondering if there is any benefit to starting to do some of the easier vMA rounds, or if you need to do a complete run to receive maelstrom weapons?

you need a complete run I'm afraid... Hence the "pain grind"

RoyJade

kuro-dono wrote: »

main reward from maelstorm is that you learn to play like an pro.

Yeah, but after 400+ successful veteran run and completion on every of my 12 chars (including my two tanks and two healers), I think I can say I have a good gameplay. Still, I have the same gear as before, because the good weapons who were aimed to be the reward of this hard task aren't here.


And yes, you need a full veteran run per weapon. Grinding the first stages only give you gear pieces, and not even jewelries (who drop only on lasts stages).

kuro-dono

you honestly dont need maelstorm weapons for anything else except ego boosting. NOBODY seriously needs them to enjoy playing this game. think of the learning to play as being the ultimate best best in slot item and you wont require anymore the sharpened staves or maces or whatever.

if you still struggle to enjoy playing without having the ultimate badass nonsense weapons of destruction... then... .... go for beer, chill and forget about it you dont need the weapons. maybe some lowbie baddies would require them to be able to perform at your lv of gameplay, but not you. or anyone else who has done couple times atleast veteran maelstorm and possibly has flawsless run aswell.

khele23eb17_ESO

kuro-dono wrote: »

you honestly dont need maelstorm weapons for anything else except ego boosting. NOBODY seriously needs them to enjoy playing this game. think of the learning to play as being the ultimate best best in slot item and you wont require anymore the sharpened staves or maces or whatever.

if you still struggle to enjoy playing without having the ultimate badass nonsense weapons of destruction... then... .... go for beer, chill and forget about it you dont need the weapons. maybe some lowbie baddies would require them to be able to perform at your lv of gameplay, but not you. or anyone else who has done couple times atleast veteran maelstorm and possibly has flawsless run aswell.

You do realize people get enjoyment from different things in MMOs? For some its the story, for some its crafting, for some its playing the economy, and for some its obtaining the best gear in game.

Danksta

kuro-dono wrote: »

main reward from maelstorm is that you learn to play like an pro.

That's not exactly true. I have beaten it on four characters and have flawless on one of them and I'm far from a "pro". It will make you better though.

kuro-dono

Danksta wrote: »

kuro-dono wrote: »

main reward from maelstorm is that you learn to play like an pro.

That's not exactly true. I have beaten it on four characters and have flawless on one of them and I'm far from a "pro". It will make you better though.

i can do veteran trials and any group dungeons. but i cant pass tru maelstorm arena lv 4 i think. the kind of effort i put to carry the poorest of the poorest members from guild groups or pug groups doesnt help me get tru maelstorm. dungeons with any ppl i can spend hundreds of hours. maelstrom drained me empty after about 10h. then i gave up.

mentioning quickly > i am either tank or healer. i have zero skill as an dd.

so. if you can do it with 4 different class and have flawless. you are an quite pro.

seedubsrun

I was just talking to my friend about this same idea Saturday. They already have the merchant right there. A token system at least for vMA and DSA should be a no-brainer. I think the final chest should give a token and breaking down a weapon should give you one. Or a one-handed gives you 1 token and a two-handed gives you 2. You can then purchase a specific weapon box with a random trait (5 tokens), a specific trait box with a random weapon (15 tokens), or buy exactly what you need (50 tokens). Though I feel the random boxes would rarely get used, they could be nice for the very casual player. This way there's some RNG still, players need to still complete multiple rounds so there's no "one and done", and everyone can actually feel good for once that they worked towards something and actually achieved it without seething with rage first.

Acid_Glow

Alright what about VMSA weekly that should not be garbage traits in Gold.

seedubsrun

Acid_Glow wrote: »

Alright what about VMSA weekly that should not be garbage traits in Gold.

Agreed. I think if they're going to stick with the RNG of it all for weekly drops they should also apply a "gold tier" application of it. Zos knows which traits everyone hates and which everyone loves. Weight the gold tier drop rate based on that. Also, if that were to exist in conjunction with a token system the weekly drop should also come with tokens. A good amount too, like 15 or 20 of em. Being on the leader-board is an impressive feat and should be respected with at least a touch of generosity.

Mazbt

A sharp or precise maelstrom inferno would be lovely one of these years.....it's hard enough getting an inferno period.

They need to do something like how they sell battleground weapons (but a new currency/gold?) You can pick your weapon but you can't control trait.

seedubsrun

Mazbt wrote: »

A sharp or precise maelstrom inferno would be lovely one of these years.....it's hard enough getting an inferno period.

They need to do something like how they sell battleground weapons (but a new currency/gold?) You can pick your weapon but you can't control trait.

I'd support this too. Maybe how well you do in each round determines how much of this currency you earn along with your score. In the end you can buy a specific weapon box with a random trait. Still RNG but much much less of it. Done.

kojou

With a token system I would step in there again... I ran it twice. Once for completion and once to go from start to finish for a score. I have been meaning to do it again, but it is content that is less like fun and more like work on top of RNG stacked against you getting what you want.

RoyJade

kuro-dono wrote: »

you honestly dont need maelstorm weapons for anything else except ego boosting. NOBODY seriously needs them to enjoy playing this game. think of the learning to play as being the ultimate best best in slot item and you wont require anymore the sharpened staves or maces or whatever.

if you still struggle to enjoy playing without having the ultimate badass nonsense weapons of destruction... then... .... go for beer, chill and forget about it you dont need the weapons. maybe some lowbie baddies would require them to be able to perform at your lv of gameplay, but not you. or anyone else who has done couple times atleast veteran maelstorm and possibly has flawsless run aswell.

When I climb a mountain, I don't stop just near to the submit. I enjoy every stone climbed, every foot stepped, every moment of admiration of the nature nearby and the effort I put. But I don't stop before being at the submit.
One I am here, I can enjoy the view. The path I've climbed. The work I've done. And the nature who gave me such a lovely exercise. You don't have the full view until being at the submit. Every piece of view is beautiful, but I aim to see all of these. Real life, video game, job, personal life, with friends or alone I alway aim for the best I can do. My only limit is to crush someone in the process. On ESO, I won't crush anyone (except veeeery bad ego) by having the best dps I can do. That's why I'm aiming for maelstrom weapons for some of my characters.

I don't need them in order to do a good dps (nor I need the master staff for my healers). I don't need them to enjoy the game. But still, as long as I can do better, I do. But really, doing something hard and repetitive should be rewarding, actually maelstrom is not (except for some lucky players sometimes).

Qbiken

The only thing that needs change in maelstrom is the drops of the other item sets (aside from malestrom weapons).

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/350693/proposed-change-to-the-maelstrom-loot-table-edited-updated#latest

Read the topic, worth it.

Didgerion

+1

All loot system needs to be changed.

The RNG should be more time friendly or ZOS will loose casual players.

Destyran

Have sharpened dagger and axe. Sharpened greatsword maul and battle axe. sharpened bow
Precise powered and defending resto. Sharpened and charged lightning. Defending and sharpened ice. 230+ dwemer frames.
And for the thing i need. 1 fire staff precise 4 defending 1 nirn.

Got 3 decisive battle axes from all 3 toons weekly. Might aswell of just ran it once for the dissapointment.

seedubsrun

Qbiken wrote: »

The only thing that needs change in maelstrom is the drops of the other item sets (aside from malestrom weapons).

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/350693/proposed-change-to-the-maelstrom-loot-table-edited-updated#latest

Read the topic, worth it.

Eh, these sets that drop range from terrible to ok. While I do agree that the sets not dropping in all potential items and all traits is completely ridiculous and should be changed the real prize from Maelstrom though is the end weapons. Right now getting what you want is well passed what should be considered reasonable. This is coming from a guy that got 2 sharpened inferno staves within 40 runs on complete luck while my friend has run it 2 to 3 times as much as me and has never received a destro staff of any kind so far. That's ridiculous. He essentially ran Maelstrom for an entire weeks worth of time with absolutely nothing to show for it. That's borderline cruel.

Wizball1987

Jeeez all this text but none green....

Wizball1987

Again

Surak73

RoyJade wrote: »

And ice of the cake, I got two gold rings. Para bellum and hunt master. Both in arcane. Seriously.

Well, the hunter ring in arcane is not so bad, after all: I was thinking about a build with a stamina warden with bear and hunter set, and a bit more magicka is not useless for buffs...

Anyway, your suggestions for a reward system are good (I have run VMA at least 120 times without getting any sharpened staff beside the restoration one...), but I think the real solution (not only for VMA) is a new design for traits.

We need at least three equally viable traits for dps, not just one (perhaps one a little better in some circumstances and the others in another ones; and with "a little" I mean no more than a 1% difference in dps). Three viable traits - let's say sharpened, precise and nirnhoned - would mean three more chances of getting a useful weapons, and not only in VMA but in every dungeons, trials etc.

Morever, this change would bring more variety into the game, and would be more simple to implement: it's only a matter of adjusting some values.

Skinzz

116 runs. Got every weapon in sharpened besides battle axe. I got lucky I guess...