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Champion Points, and why they ruin PVP
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Asardes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Sotha Sil, Almalexia, Battle GroundsBeta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
vMA (The Flawless Conqueror) | vVH (Spirit Slayer & of the Undying Song) | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1 | Emperor
PC-EU CP 3000+
41,000+ Achievement Points before High IsleMember of:
Pact Veteran Trade: Exemplary
Traders of the Covenant: God of Sales
Tamriels Emporium: God of Sales
Valinor Overflow: Trader
The Traveling Merchant: Silver
Characters:
Asardes | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 50 | Master Crafter: all traits & recipes, all styles released before High Isle
Alxaril Nelcarion | 50 High Elf Sorcerer | AD AR 20 |
Dro'Bear Three-paws | 50 Khajiit Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
Veronique Nicole | 50 Breton Templar | DC AR 20 |
Sabina Flavia Cosades | 50 Imperial Warden | EP AR 20 |
Ervesa Neloren | 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight | EP AR 20 |
Fendar Khodwin | 50 Redguard Sorcerer | DC AR 20 |
Surilanwe of Lillandril | 50 High Elf Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
Joleen the Swift | 50 Redguard Templar | DC AR 20 |
Draynor Telvanni | 50 Dark Elf Warden | EP AR 20 |
Claudius Tharn | 50 Necromancer | DC AR 20 |
Nazura-la the Bonedancer | 50 Necromancer | AD AR 20 |
Tharkul gro-Shug | 50 Orc Dragonknight | DC AR 4 |
Ushruka gra-Lhurgash | 50 Orc Sorcerer | AD AR 4 |
Cienwen ferch Llywelyn | 50 Breton Nightblade | DC AR 4 |
Plays-with-Sunray | 50 Argonian Templar | EP AR 4 |
Milariel | 50 Wood Elf Warden | AD AR 4 |
Scheei-Jul | 50 Necromancer | EP AR 4 |
PC-NA CP 1800+
30,000+ Achievement Points before High IsleMember of:
Savage Blade: Majestic Machette
Characters:
Asardes the Exile | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 30 |2 -
1 -
Acrolas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You could wipe everything out of this game except the bucket and broom, and PVP would still find a way to ruin itself.signing off3 -
Uncle_Sweetshare✭✭✭✭PC | NA | EP Uninstalled and refunded. I'm just here to laugh at ZOS.
Candy, candy, he makes so much.
Click Here! >>> Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Battlegrounds? <<< Click Here!3 -
JarlUlfric✭✭✭✭Zemiousb14_ESO wrote: »
Those are all non-cp PvP environments. Go play those if you can't compete in CP Pvp.True High King
Member since August 2013.
Eastmarch Trade Company | Washed Up Raiders | Order of the Bear (RIP 4.17.2015 - 5.31.2019)
EP | Björn Járnsída | Dragonknight Tank
EP | First-Rank Ansei | Stamina Nightblade
EP | Advancing Yokeda | Stamina Sorceror
EP | Immortal Yokeda | Stamina Necromancer
EP | Resilient Yokeda | Stamina Dragonknight
EP | Talvos Sari | Magicka Sorcerer3 -
JarlUlfric wrote: »Zemiousb14_ESO wrote: »
Those are all non-cp PvP environments. Go play those if you can't compete in CP Pvp.
Not having CP points doesn't make a pvper like myself inadequate, it means some other person farmed points to get gud. So Sotha Sil and Almalexia are battlegrounds or something? I'm googling this and not really finding any helpful information... When I queued for a BG today, there was simply one option: "Loot Grab" or something.PC-NA0 -
apostate9✭✭✭✭✭Zemiousb14_ESO wrote: »
No, it was your post that didn't have substance. Since it sounds like you haven't been playing ESO for more than 15 minutes, I'll break down this reply for ya. Those three places are where you go to PVP...with *no champion points enabled*. That's right, those Battlegrounds that you're wringing your hands about, are NO CP. You are not going to die there because of champion points, because nobody in Battlegrounds can use them. Ever.So...if you did try a BG and you lost for instance, it was categorically NOT because of CP.
The Sotha Sil campaign? No CP. You can go there at level 10 and be useful. Almalexia? No CP.
So, maybe you should stop your roll on the forums, and learn something about the game. Nobody cares what you did in WOW or Game XYZ. This isn't that game, and you categorically DO need to git gud.
/thread
6 -
apostate9✭✭✭✭✭Zemiousb14_ESO wrote: »
No, it was your post that didn't have substance. Since it sounds like you haven't been playing ESO for more than 15 minutes, I'll break down this reply for ya. Those three places are where you go to PVP...with *no champion points enabled*. That's right, those Battlegrounds that you're wringing your hands about, are NO CP. You are not going to die there because of champion points, because nobody in Battlegrounds can use them. Ooops. So...if you did try a BG and you lost for instance, it was categorically NOT because of CP.
The Sotha Sil campaign? No CP. You can go there at level 10 and be useful. Almalexia? No CP.
So, maybe you should slow your roll on the forums, and learn something about the game. It sounds like you don't even know what a campaign is in ESO, and here you are already complaining about PVP balance like a true forum Jedi.
Nobody cares what you did in WOW or Game XYZ. This isn't that game, this is ESO. You ARE a noob in this game, and you categorically DO need to git gud.
/thread
Edited by apostate9 on June 7, 2017 7:22PM0 -
Zemiousb14_ESO wrote: »
No, it was your post that didn't have substance. Since it sounds like you haven't been playing ESO for more than 15 minutes, I'll break down this reply for ya. Those three places are where you go to PVP...with *no champion points enabled*. That's right, those Battlegrounds that you're wringing your hands about, are NO CP. You are not going to die there because of champion points, because nobody in Battlegrounds can use them. So...if you did try a BG and you lost for instance, it was categorically NOT because of CP.
The Sotha Sil campaign? No CP. You can go there at level 10 and be useful. Almalexia? No CP.
So, maybe you should stop your roll on the forums, and learn something about the game. Nobody cares what you did in WOW or Game XYZ. This isn't that game, and you categorically DO need to git gud.
/thread
https://snag.gy/JonDRO.jpgPC-NA0 -
It's not nearly as difficult as the PvP in The Secret World. Still I understand and choose to play no CP Cyrodiil, when I decide to PvP.0 -
Uncle_Sweetshare✭✭✭✭Zemiousb14_ESO wrote: »JarlUlfric wrote: »Zemiousb14_ESO wrote: »
Those are all non-cp PvP environments. Go play those if you can't compete in CP Pvp.
Not having CP points doesn't make a pvper like myself inadequate, it means some other person farmed points to get gud. So Sotha Sil and Almalexia are battlegrounds or something? I'm googling this and not really finding any helpful information... When I queued for a BG today, there was simply one option: "Loot Grab" or something.
No, having no knowledge of the game makes you inadequate.
Sotha Sil - 30 Day Non-CP Cyrodiil Campaign
Almalexia - 7 Day Non-CP Cyrodiil Campaign
Kyne - Below Level 50 Non-CP Cyrodiil Campaign
Battlegrounds - All of Battlegrounds is Non-CP
Compared to...
Vivec - 30 Day CP Cyrodiil Campaign
But please, go on about how you can't PvP because of CP.PC | NA | EP Uninstalled and refunded. I'm just here to laugh at ZOS.
Candy, candy, he makes so much.
Click Here! >>> Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Battlegrounds? <<< Click Here!3 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Champion Points by themselves were a mistake to begin with, and for all parts of the game, not just PvP.
I think the game would be better off if Champion Points were removed entirely, and an actual vertical progression system were reinstated into this game. The game as a whole would be easier to "balance" as well (though there will never, ever, be "equal balance" in this or any other MMORPG), and it would definitely help to erase the largest parts of the "rotating Meta" that the game currently revolves around.
Purely IMO; but I fully believe that Champion Points were an ill-conceived system that started hurting this game from the minute they were thought up.
Why would you remove an actual Vertical Progression system (i.e. levels) in favor of a Horizontal system?
ZOS Devs: "Hey guys! How about we remove that feeling of actually growing more powerful by gaining actual levels with definitive character strength improvements, and replace it with a system that gives you points to spend that only passively help your character, and then by only tenths of a percentage point at that! That sounds great!!! You can grind for months with little to no benefit!!! This is the BEST IDEA EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Who ever brought that into a Development brain-storming session needs to be busted down to "Janitor"... and all the people who agreed with it.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!2 -
Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »Champion Points by themselves were a mistake to begin with, and for all parts of the game, not just PvP.
I think the game would be better off if Champion Points were removed entirely, and an actual vertical progression system were reinstated into this game. The game as a whole would be easier to "balance" as well (though there will never, ever, be "equal balance" in this or any other MMORPG), and it would definitely help to erase the largest parts of the "rotating Meta" that the game currently revolves around.
Purely IMO; but I fully believe that Champion Points were an ill-conceived system that started hurting this game from the minute they were thought up.
Why would you remove an actual Vertical Progression system (i.e. levels) in favor of a Horizontal system?
ZOS Devs: "Hey guys! How about we remove that feeling of actually growing more powerful by gaining actual levels with definitive character strength improvements, and replace it with a system that gives you points to spend that only passively help your character, and then by only tenths of a percentage point at that! That sounds great!!! You can grind for months with little to no benefit!!! This is the BEST IDEA EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Who ever brought that into a Development brain-storming session needs to be busted down to "Janitor"... and all the people who agreed with it.
I knew there was something missing, I'd craft that new armor and weapon but get the feeling it was only to maintain a standard, not progress. I'm still a year later without a character @ 160cp, which doesn't really bother me at all, it's a stupid pointless grind.1 -
Uncle_Sweetshare✭✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »Champion Points by themselves were a mistake to begin with, and for all parts of the game, not just PvP.
I think the game would be better off if Champion Points were removed entirely, and an actual vertical progression system were reinstated into this game. The game as a whole would be easier to "balance" as well (though there will never, ever, be "equal balance" in this or any other MMORPG), and it would definitely help to erase the largest parts of the "rotating Meta" that the game currently revolves around.
Purely IMO; but I fully believe that Champion Points were an ill-conceived system that started hurting this game from the minute they were thought up.
Why would you remove an actual Vertical Progression system (i.e. levels) in favor of a Horizontal system?
ZOS Devs: "Hey guys! How about we remove that feeling of actually growing more powerful by gaining actual levels with definitive character strength improvements, and replace it with a system that gives you points to spend that only passively help your character, and then by only tenths of a percentage point at that! That sounds great!!! You can grind for months with little to no benefit!!! This is the BEST IDEA EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Who ever brought that into a Development brain-storming session needs to be busted down to "Janitor"... and all the people who agreed with it.
CP gives us no lifers something to do; that's why WoW could never hold my attention. I'd go to it back after an expansion, hit max level in 2 days, hit max ilvl by the end of the first week, and have all content cleared by the end of the second week.
Different strokes for different folks.PC | NA | EP Uninstalled and refunded. I'm just here to laugh at ZOS.
Candy, candy, he makes so much.
Click Here! >>> Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Battlegrounds? <<< Click Here!2 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
And you already hit that "Max Level" with Champion Points just as easily.Uncle_Sweetshare wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »Champion Points by themselves were a mistake to begin with, and for all parts of the game, not just PvP.
I think the game would be better off if Champion Points were removed entirely, and an actual vertical progression system were reinstated into this game. The game as a whole would be easier to "balance" as well (though there will never, ever, be "equal balance" in this or any other MMORPG), and it would definitely help to erase the largest parts of the "rotating Meta" that the game currently revolves around.
Purely IMO; but I fully believe that Champion Points were an ill-conceived system that started hurting this game from the minute they were thought up.
Why would you remove an actual Vertical Progression system (i.e. levels) in favor of a Horizontal system?
ZOS Devs: "Hey guys! How about we remove that feeling of actually growing more powerful by gaining actual levels with definitive character strength improvements, and replace it with a system that gives you points to spend that only passively help your character, and then by only tenths of a percentage point at that! That sounds great!!! You can grind for months with little to no benefit!!! This is the BEST IDEA EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Who ever brought that into a Development brain-storming session needs to be busted down to "Janitor"... and all the people who agreed with it.
CP gives us no lifers something to do; that's why WoW could never hold my attention. I'd go to it back after an expansion, hit max level in 2 days, hit max ilvl by the end of the first week, and have all content cleared by the end of the second week.
Different strokes for different folks.
They cap how many you can spend, so for "no lifers" (as you put it), you were probably already past 630CP by the time this Update dropped. Thus, you went in, spent your extra 30CP, and are at that "progression wall". You can still EARN more Champion Points, but with the spending cap, once you've attained the extra 30CP, raising a CP level past 630 gives you a sum total of zero benefit.
You cannot actually progress any farther until ZOS raises the CP Cap again for some future DLC.
On top of that, those 30CP probably barely increased a Stat/Passive Bonus by a single percentage point (or less in several cases). An "additional benefit" that small won't even register to a person playing the game, so that 30CP increase feels like nothing more than it did before the Update.
It's WoW's level cap all over again, but without the visibly noticeable increase to Player/Character strength.
Horizontal Progression that isn't even Progressing at all vs. WoW's +10 level increase/DLC where there is a noticeable character strength increase from say... lvl 90-lvl 100.
So while I appreciate what you're saying, this system is actually worse than hitting WoW's level cap just as quickly, and gives your character less benefit in this game than when compared to WoW.
Edited by Uriel_Nocturne on June 7, 2017 7:55PM
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!0 -
Uncle_Sweetshare✭✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
And you already hit that "Max Level" with Champion Points just as easily.Uncle_Sweetshare wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »Champion Points by themselves were a mistake to begin with, and for all parts of the game, not just PvP.
I think the game would be better off if Champion Points were removed entirely, and an actual vertical progression system were reinstated into this game. The game as a whole would be easier to "balance" as well (though there will never, ever, be "equal balance" in this or any other MMORPG), and it would definitely help to erase the largest parts of the "rotating Meta" that the game currently revolves around.
Purely IMO; but I fully believe that Champion Points were an ill-conceived system that started hurting this game from the minute they were thought up.
Why would you remove an actual Vertical Progression system (i.e. levels) in favor of a Horizontal system?
ZOS Devs: "Hey guys! How about we remove that feeling of actually growing more powerful by gaining actual levels with definitive character strength improvements, and replace it with a system that gives you points to spend that only passively help your character, and then by only tenths of a percentage point at that! That sounds great!!! You can grind for months with little to no benefit!!! This is the BEST IDEA EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Who ever brought that into a Development brain-storming session needs to be busted down to "Janitor"... and all the people who agreed with it.
CP gives us no lifers something to do; that's why WoW could never hold my attention. I'd go to it back after an expansion, hit max level in 2 days, hit max ilvl by the end of the first week, and have all content cleared by the end of the second week.
Different strokes for different folks.
They cap how many you can spend, so for "no lifers" (as you put it), you were probably already past 630CP by the time this Update dropped. Thus, you went in, spent your extra 30CP, and are at that "progression wall". You can still EARN more Champion Points, but with the spending cap, once you've attained the extra 30CP, raising a CP level past 630 gives you a sum total of zero benefit.
You cannot actually progress any farther until ZOS raises the CP Cap again for some future DLC.
On top of that, those 30CP probably barely increased a Stat/Passive Bonus by a single percentage point (or less in several cases). An "additional benefit" that small won't even register to a person playing the game, so that 30CP increase feels like nothing more than it did before the Update.
It's WoW's level cap all over again, but without the visibly noticeable increase to Player/Character strength.
Horizontal Progression that isn't even Progressing at all.
So while I appreciate what you're saying, this system is actually worse than hitting WoW's level cap just as quickly, and gives your character less benefit in this game than when compared to WoW.
I've been playing for 2 months (you can see Mar 27 was my account creation date) and just recently hit CP400 (and have 4 level 50s). For someone who plays as much as I do to not hit the progression wall after 2 months, I'm pretty happy. I understand where you're coming from, but personally I'd rather that CP infinitely scaled, with each point's value lowering based on the amount of applied points, all the way down to 0.01%, effectively making the difference between a CP1200 and CP1500 player only 1% per tree (assuming they were stacking points all into 1 CP 'star').
I find that a much better alternative to gaining 5 more levels every 6 months and having to upgrade all my gear to the new gear level, even though the new content is scaled to the new max level, so the game doesn't actually change in difficulty, nor does your character actually get stronger, it just gives the illusion of progress.Edited by Uncle_Sweetshare on June 7, 2017 8:05PMPC | NA | EP Uninstalled and refunded. I'm just here to laugh at ZOS.
Candy, candy, he makes so much.
Click Here! >>> Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Battlegrounds? <<< Click Here!0 -
Uncle_Sweetshare✭✭✭✭Zemiousb14_ESO wrote: »Zemiousb14_ESO wrote: »
No, it was your post that didn't have substance. Since it sounds like you haven't been playing ESO for more than 15 minutes, I'll break down this reply for ya. Those three places are where you go to PVP...with *no champion points enabled*. That's right, those Battlegrounds that you're wringing your hands about, are NO CP. You are not going to die there because of champion points, because nobody in Battlegrounds can use them. So...if you did try a BG and you lost for instance, it was categorically NOT because of CP.
The Sotha Sil campaign? No CP. You can go there at level 10 and be useful. Almalexia? No CP.
So, maybe you should stop your roll on the forums, and learn something about the game. Nobody cares what you did in WOW or Game XYZ. This isn't that game, and you categorically DO need to git gud.
/thread
https://snag.gy/JonDRO.jpg
930 hours and you didn't realize 3/4 of the PvP campaigns were non-CP, along with Battlegrounds?
PC | NA | EP Uninstalled and refunded. I'm just here to laugh at ZOS.
Candy, candy, he makes so much.
Click Here! >>> Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Battlegrounds? <<< Click Here!2 -
Inarre✭✭✭✭✭
✭Conspiracy Theory: Zos is phasing out CP PVP to all but eliminate the issue of balancing mechanics for PVP and PVE situations.1
