magicka+stam build = no?

datboitodd

Title pretty much says it. I wanted to make a DK Dark elf fire-lava mage. I wanted to use destro staff on 1 bar and a melee weapon on the back bar for melee encounters. (as well as a lot of fire abilities do AoE damage to nearby enemies, so going in melee sometimes might not hurt?)
I ask this, because a lot of people I see on the forums and in-game say a hybrid mag/sta build is going to make damage low. Would this be the truth? Or can I make it work.

I am speaking on terms of PvP and PvE if anyone is curious. I love PvP more, but I do not expect to be #1 in eso or anything, but i'd like to be a threat

EttinTheBreton

Hi @datboitodd,

As far as I understand it, splitting attribute points between stamina and magicka would obviously make damage lower than someone who is a pure stamina / pure magicka build. But the reason this diminishing damage is significant is because the more magicka (or stamina) you have, the higher an increase in damage you get when you add another attribute point into magicka (or stamina). So the relationship isn't linear, but somewhat exponential. The more attribute points you spend into the same pool the better an increase in damage you will get from the last point you spent. Sure, each time you add a point in stamina or magicka, the max magicka or stamina always increases by +111. If you spend a point in health, your max health goes up by +122. Those increases are always the same, regardless of how you've spent your points. But the way skill damage is increased from a higher max magicka or stamina pool makes a "pure" build have significantly higher damage in the end.

So probably everyone's argument is due to the diminishing returns you get when you split attribute points into a hybrid mag/sta build. I believe that as long as you try to make as much synergy as possible (all of your spells and abilities work together), you can be a threat in PvP and PvE. ESO is a great game because you really can play how you want to and still be effective. It will take some work though. Your build will have to counteract those diminishing returns you're getting from splitting up your attribute points. The reason so many people go with "pure" builds is because it's the easy way. Making a hybrid build effective takes a good bit of thinking.

In my experience, I tried Destro staff on the front bar and sword+board on the back bar, and initially split my attribute points between magicka and stamina. I began to notice that all of my PvE encounters were taking longer than expected, so I switched to the basic Destro/resto staff build and put all of my attribute points into magicka. I noticed a huge difference in my PvE effectiveness!

[This post does lack actual calculations. Does anyone know exactly how significant the increasing returns are when you purely place attribute points into stamina or magicka? Which builds have higher returns, a pure stamina or pure magicka?]

Taleof2Cities

Hybrid characters are still a ways off from being viable in PvP end game I'm afraid. But, there are are some new craftable Morrowind sets that you can at least try out:

Shacklebreaker
Assassin's Guile

Also, don't forget Pelinal's Aptitude ... which is another craftable set that supports hybrid builds.

EttinTheBreton

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Hybrid characters are still a ways off from being viable in PvP end game I'm afraid.

I like your advice about the sets that support hybrid builds, but why do you say that all hybrid characters are not yet viable in PvP end game? I'm a new player too (I just got past lvl 50 yesterday). You're saying there's no smart enough way to build a hybrid character that would be effective in end game PvP? I am planning on doing the calculations myself sometime soon, but I find it hard to believe that there is no possible way of building a hybrid character that could be useful in end game.

datboitodd

I think he is saying hybrids can be viable if experience and time is put into it. So basically hybrid builds are for the wicked, like us

jircris11

datboitodd wrote: »

Title pretty much says it. I wanted to make a DK Dark elf fire-lava mage. I wanted to use destro staff on 1 bar and a melee weapon on the back bar for melee encounters. (as well as a lot of fire abilities do AoE damage to nearby enemies, so going in melee sometimes might not hurt?)
I ask this, because a lot of people I see on the forums and in-game say a hybrid mag/sta build is going to make damage low. Would this be the truth? Or can I make it work.

I am speaking on terms of PvP and PvE if anyone is curious. I love PvP more, but I do not expect to be #1 in eso or anything, but i'd like to be a threat

in terms of pvp you want to stick to a single stat, i tend to make hybrid builds though i do not pvp with them. My main is my stam blade and despite what people say i can hold my own well if i do not get jumped by more then 2 XD.

Darlgon

OK, first off.. if you split STA and Magicka.. you just, at least halved, if not cut 2/3 of your DPS. Your damage increases as you put more points into Stam for stam skills and the bigger your pool of stamina. Same for Mag.

Now.. why do you need any points in stamina anyway? From your description, you plan on being a melee DPS \ ranged DPS.
Just put all your points into Magicka, with a few to Health, since you will take a pounding being in melee range and a few points into Sta for Break Free type things. You can fill your bar with magicka skills as a DK that will keep you alive while doing damage..Just pick the right gear. The trick is, a lot of the DK heal is based on damage done being returned as a heal. Make sure your gear does the same.

Trust me.. I know. I have been a 1HS/staff user since Day One of pre-Launch. I tried 20/25/19? What ever the numbers were for Vet 16... When I swapped to 29/30/5, I pretty much thought I was in DPS heaven and was able to last more than a few seconds when a zerg ran into a keep onto a flag.. Cyrodiil was actually why I respecced.

davey1107

Here's the problem - you're not wanting a hybrid build but you called it that so everyone started talking hybrids.

A hybrid is when someone tries to stack a bar with both magic and stamina attacks, often splitting attribute points. As a pretty firm rule: Never, EVER split attribute points between two fighting resources. Go all magic or all Stamina. If you don't, instead of hitting for 10k (rough example) with a bunch of stamina attacks, you'll hit for 4K with a mix of stamina and magic attacks...not good. It'll take 2 1/2 times as long to kill anything and you'll get squashed.

HOWEVER, what you describe is still possible. It's not technically a hybrid build. You're wanting to use a melee weapon bar on a magic DK, which is totally fine. You have lots of magic melee attacks to populate this bar with...whip...talons...burning embers. Just make sure all attacks are abilities that do magic and magic related damage (flame). Then possibly choose a few weapons skills sparingly as a stam dump. For example, with 1h and shield, defensive posture or shield charge offer benefits. On the 2h, maybe the gap closer. Two swords boost your dps 5%, although you'd probably skip any dw skills. The 1h ultimate is fine for magic builds as a defensive ultimate.

Of all the physical weapons, I think 1h is the best personally. The shield gives you a massive boost in armor (especially with the champion point buff increasing it 75%). And having two items for weapons allows you to bring in either a second set 5th trait or a monster helm trait. That's HUGE, and the possibilities with a 5/5/2 setup always negate giving up a staff for me. On my magic builds that do this, I always carry around a sword that's the same set as the shield...defense when I need it, or swap one weapon and some skills for more offensive power.

So your dream of a dunker in your face mage is entirely viable. Go for it.