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LORE: Is the Three Banners War over?
ShedsHisTail
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When ESO was released, the scenario provided is that the Imperial Throne was vacant and the three factions, many formed out of little more than necessity and pragmatism, were battling for control of the Imperial seat of power. At the same time, Molag Bal and his forces were dropping Dark Anchors all around Tamriel. I mention the Dark Anchors because they mark a certain chronology point.
So what we have is the Cyrodiil PvP zone where the three factions come together and fight, and the non PvP zones where we take the battle to Molag Bal. Eventually, via the main quest, Molag Bal is defeated... But the battle in Cyrodiil persists. Not surprising since we learn in the Imperial City DLC that Molag Bal, or agents of Molag Bal, are still at work in Tamriel in the Imperial City.
However, in effort to defeat Molag Bal, we see the leaders of the three factions come together, allying in mutual interest to defeat the Daedric Prince of Domination. Craglorn occured somewhere in there but is largely divorced from rest of the story which was happening at the time.
This, to me, marks the beginning of the end of the Three Banners war.
The next major DLC was Orsinium. Orsinium is an Orcish stronghold, but doesn't really consider itself a part of the Covenant. It's got it's own problems, and so doesn't persecute in regards to who is going to help them out. In fact, if they've animosity toward anyone, it's their supposed allies the Bretons. Interesting point of note... No Dark Anchors in Wrothgar. There is one "Unfinished Dolmen" I'm uncertain if it's still under construction, as the cultists present are performing a summoning ritual very different from those typically witnesed at Dark Anchor points. The take away here is, there are no operational Dark Anchors in Wrothgar.
The following thre DLCS also all lack both inter-faction conflict, and the influence of Molag Bal's minions (no Dark Anchors anywhere); Abah's Landing and the Gold Coast both being essentially neutral zones uncontrolled by any faction, and Shadows of the Hist being just a pair of dungeons.
So what we're seeing is a pattern of inter-factional conflict becoming less and less prominent as the influence of Molag Bal wanes across Tamriel, culminating in the release of One Tamriel; the big release that made factions meaningless outside of Cyrodiil. Then Homestead, where members of any faction are now capable of purchasing land and establish residences in areas controlled by opposing factions.
To me, that's sort of the final straw. The war is over when you allow the enemy to reside in your territory.
And that brings us to Morrowind; Chapter Two, the new story. No longer are we (new toons) the reincarnated Vestige, Molag Bal is gone, the world has moved on... And worse, we're beginning to see the fractures in the Ebon Heart Pact. With no great conflict to hold them together, tensions are rising once more among these three cultures with a long, turbulent histories.
What will come of this Chapter? And will future Chapters show us the slow dissolution of other factions?
"But wait!" you say, "People are still fighting in Cyrodiil."
Which is true, so we've got a couple of options here to reconcile this. We can either assume that Cyrodiil, like all the Vanilla zones, exist in a sort of out-of-game temporal stasis that you can return to and experience at any time you want because it's a video game. Or we can go with a more lore-friendly reconcilliation...
Prior to the events of ESO fleshing out the details, the time period we're currently in was sort of this gap where the Imperial Throne sat vacant and various Emperors came and went... Is it possible that the Three Banners War is over in any official capacity, and those people still fighting over Cyrodiil represent the various disparate, nameless, factions seating and unseating Emperors during this ever-so-vague time period in Elder Scrolls lore? That though they still fly to colors of the three factions, none of them truly represent any sort of official agenda?
Either way, to me, the Three Banners War has ended
So what we have is the Cyrodiil PvP zone where the three factions come together and fight, and the non PvP zones where we take the battle to Molag Bal. Eventually, via the main quest, Molag Bal is defeated... But the battle in Cyrodiil persists. Not surprising since we learn in the Imperial City DLC that Molag Bal, or agents of Molag Bal, are still at work in Tamriel in the Imperial City.
However, in effort to defeat Molag Bal, we see the leaders of the three factions come together, allying in mutual interest to defeat the Daedric Prince of Domination. Craglorn occured somewhere in there but is largely divorced from rest of the story which was happening at the time.
This, to me, marks the beginning of the end of the Three Banners war.
The next major DLC was Orsinium. Orsinium is an Orcish stronghold, but doesn't really consider itself a part of the Covenant. It's got it's own problems, and so doesn't persecute in regards to who is going to help them out. In fact, if they've animosity toward anyone, it's their supposed allies the Bretons. Interesting point of note... No Dark Anchors in Wrothgar. There is one "Unfinished Dolmen" I'm uncertain if it's still under construction, as the cultists present are performing a summoning ritual very different from those typically witnesed at Dark Anchor points. The take away here is, there are no operational Dark Anchors in Wrothgar.
The following thre DLCS also all lack both inter-faction conflict, and the influence of Molag Bal's minions (no Dark Anchors anywhere); Abah's Landing and the Gold Coast both being essentially neutral zones uncontrolled by any faction, and Shadows of the Hist being just a pair of dungeons.
So what we're seeing is a pattern of inter-factional conflict becoming less and less prominent as the influence of Molag Bal wanes across Tamriel, culminating in the release of One Tamriel; the big release that made factions meaningless outside of Cyrodiil. Then Homestead, where members of any faction are now capable of purchasing land and establish residences in areas controlled by opposing factions.
To me, that's sort of the final straw. The war is over when you allow the enemy to reside in your territory.
And that brings us to Morrowind; Chapter Two, the new story. No longer are we (new toons) the reincarnated Vestige, Molag Bal is gone, the world has moved on... And worse, we're beginning to see the fractures in the Ebon Heart Pact. With no great conflict to hold them together, tensions are rising once more among these three cultures with a long, turbulent histories.
What will come of this Chapter? And will future Chapters show us the slow dissolution of other factions?
"But wait!" you say, "People are still fighting in Cyrodiil."
Which is true, so we've got a couple of options here to reconcile this. We can either assume that Cyrodiil, like all the Vanilla zones, exist in a sort of out-of-game temporal stasis that you can return to and experience at any time you want because it's a video game. Or we can go with a more lore-friendly reconcilliation...
Prior to the events of ESO fleshing out the details, the time period we're currently in was sort of this gap where the Imperial Throne sat vacant and various Emperors came and went... Is it possible that the Three Banners War is over in any official capacity, and those people still fighting over Cyrodiil represent the various disparate, nameless, factions seating and unseating Emperors during this ever-so-vague time period in Elder Scrolls lore? That though they still fly to colors of the three factions, none of them truly represent any sort of official agenda?
Either way, to me, the Three Banners War has ended
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?
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Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭The War will be lasting for around 250 years up to the point when Talos stops it. The period is called Interregnum, I believe.
Sure, there might be more or less quiet periods throughout these 2 centuries. But the was hasn't ended, it barely started. Who knows, maybe future chapters or DLCs will have more emphasis on that.0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭The War will be lasting for around 250 years up to the point when Talos stops it. The period is called Interregnum, I believe.
Sure, there might be more or less quiet periods throughout these 2 centuries. But the was hasn't ended, it barely started. Who knows, maybe future chapters or DLCs will have more emphasis on that.
Interregnum basically just means "between regents" or "without governance."
And yeah, that period lasts for 250 years or so. But that doesn't mean that the Three Banners War, as defined as " the war between the three factions; Ebon heart Pact, Daggerfall Covenant and Aldmeri Dominion, lasts for that entire period.
It just means that there was no real Emperor in the Imperial City for 250 years.
But, yeah, you're right... It's possible future DLC will put more emphasis on that conflict. But right now, it doesn't appear to be heading that direction.Edited by ShedsHisTail on May 31, 2017 8:37PM"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?1 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rather, let me put it this way...
According to: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Interregnum
"During the entirety of Interregnum, petty warlords had attempted to seize control of Cyrodiil's capital and to reestablish the Empire."
Would you cLL the faction leaders "petty warlords?" Doesn't it seem strange to anybody else that the none of the leaders of any of the factions are vying for the Throne? They all seems happy enough to just let whomever get's there first take it. What sort of interest does it serve for the factions to continue to lend any support to that kind of effort?
Especially for 250 years.Edited by ShedsHisTail on May 31, 2017 10:08PM"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
quadraxis666✭✭✭✭✭
✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »The war is over when you allow the enemy to reside in your territory.
They could be refugees. It's not uncommon for refugees from a war to end up in the country they're at war with. War is between governments, not citizens, not the countries themselves. I've never beaten up an Afghan refugee in London for example.
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Darlgon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lore has been suspended indefinitely, due to the Marketing Department of Zos having creative control over the timeline.
Sheogorath rejoice.Power level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.4 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭quadraxis666 wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »The war is over when you allow the enemy to reside in your territory.
They could be refugees. It's not uncommon for refugees from a war to end up in the country they're at war with. War is between governments, not citizens, not the countries themselves. I've never beaten up an Afghan refugee in London for example.
Except that I haven't seen any province so war-torn that folk were fleeing or seeking refuge from foreign governments. Not saying it definitely couldn't happen, just that there's not really any lore supporting it.Edited by ShedsHisTail on May 31, 2017 9:05PM"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The War will be lasting for around 250 years up to the point when Talos stops it. The period is called Interregnum, I believe.
Sure, there might be more or less quiet periods throughout these 2 centuries. But the was hasn't ended, it barely started. Who knows, maybe future chapters or DLCs will have more emphasis on that.
No. The Three Banners War only lasts for a few years. If ZOS keeps the concept of each zone being 3 - 4 months after the previous one, then the war may actually be over by the time we get to Vvardenfell.
The Interregunm will last until Talos comes in and reunifies The Empire, but the Pact, Covenant, and Dominion will be distant memories before that happens.0 -
Zvorgin✭✭✭✭✭@ShedsHisTail Two things
1) Awesome write up summarizing the timeline of the game at a high level
2) I now understand why I think to myself, "What's the point?" when riding around Cyrodiil.1 -
Stovahkiin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'll agree with whatever you say as long as this doesn't turn into another "lets remove PvP from cyrodiil" thread...Beware the battle cattle, but don't *fear* the battle cattle!0 -
tinythinker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lore has been suspended indefinitely, due to the Marketing Department of Zos having creative control over the timeline.
Sheogorath rejoice.
Yeah. Technically these events are all happening at roughly the same time but they messed up the lore/continuity with One Tamriel despite suggestions for simple fixes and added a new plot hole with Morrowind. The ESO lore master hinted about a month ago that they are working on an explanation...❤Experienced, new, returner?❤ Help keep ESO's community strong ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ -- share what you love about the game, offer constructive feedback, and make friends.ʕ·ᴥ·ʔ
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Support Mudcrab Mode for ESO (\/)!_!(\/) - part joke, part serious, all glorious! You butter be ready for this0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stovahkiin wrote: »I'll agree with whatever you say as long as this doesn't turn into another "lets remove PvP from cyrodiil" thread...
Naw... Let's make it nine factions though.
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
Stovahkiin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »Stovahkiin wrote: »I'll agree with whatever you say as long as this doesn't turn into another "lets remove PvP from cyrodiil" thread...
Naw... Let's make it nine factions though.
Lol, Cyrodiil would look like a rainbow with all of those different colored banners
I call team unicornEdited by Stovahkiin on May 31, 2017 9:30PMBeware the battle cattle, but don't *fear* the battle cattle!0 -
BlackSparrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭When all else fails, blame Dragon Break.
Personally, I'm with you... I like to think that the three faction leaders coming together to handle Molag Bal would help resolve that particular conflict...Even if the leaders didn't do much but snipe at one another and barely linger long enough to send in the Fighters and Mages Guilds.
But this game generally treats time fairly loosely. We can assume that Cyrodiil is set in the same time period as the other original zones, with the DLCs and Morrowind progressing from there. It wouldn't take much for conflict to start back up, but it seems that most of the factions have turned their attention inward in the aftermath of the Planemeld.
This time period has always been one big vague question mark, so ZOS can play fast and loose with the timeline and there's no official answer here. We'll basically have to see from future releases whether you're right.Living vicariously through my characters.
My Girls:"If you were trapped in your house for, say, a year, how would you pass the time?"
Nephikah the Houseless, dunmer assassin: "I suppose I could use the break. I have a lot of business holdings now that need management."
Swum-Many-Waters, elderly argonian healer: "I think that I would enjoy writing a memoir."
Silh'ki, khajiit warrior-chef: "Would this one be able to go outside, to the nearby river? It's hard to fish without water!"
Peregrine Huntress, bosmer hunter: "Who is forcing me to stay inside, and where can I find them?"
Lorenyawe, altmer mechanist: "And why would I want to go outside in the first place? Too much to be done in the workshop."
Lorelai Magpie, breton master thief: "I'd go nuts. Lucky for me, I have a little experience sneaking out!"
Rasheda the Burning Heart, redguard knight: "I would continue my training to keep my skills sharp."
Hex-Eye Azabi, khajiit daedric priestess: "I suppose it would be lucky, then, that I built a shrine to Mephala in my backyard."
Yngva Stormhammer, nord bandit (reformed...ish): "I hate being inside even when I'm not forced to be. GET. ME. OUT."
Madam Argentia, vampire dunmer aristocrat: "I suppose it would be more of the same. I have a rather... contentious relationship with the sun."
Mazie gra-Bolga, orc scout: "Uh... I'd have to house train my bear..."
Felicia the Wanderer, imperial witch-for-hire: "What Lorelai said."
Calico Jaka-dra, retired khajiit pirate: "This one would like a rest from her grand adventures. Her jewel shop runs out of stock!"
Shimmerbeam, blind altmer psijic: "Provided that I am confined to Artaeum, I do not think I will want for things to occupy my time."
Shauna Blackfire, redguard necromancer: "Sounds like paradise. I hate people."
Kirniel the Undying, cursed bosmer warrior: "I would feel useless, not being able to fight."
Echoes-from-Dragons, argonian who thinks she's a dragon: "All the better to count my hoard!"
(Signature idea shamelessly stolen from Abeille.)0 -
GeeYouWhy✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »Rather, let me put it this way...
According to: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Interregnum
"During the entirety of Interregnum, petty warlords had attempted to seize control of Cyrodiil's capital and to reestablish the Empire."
So "petty warlords" would be the players of ESO then?Konrandir, Vampire Sorcerer5 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »Rather, let me put it this way...
According to: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Interregnum
"During the entirety of Interregnum, petty warlords had attempted to seize control of Cyrodiil's capital and to reestablish the Empire."
So "petty warlords" would be the players of ESO then?
Yes."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stovahkiin wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Stovahkiin wrote: »I'll agree with whatever you say as long as this doesn't turn into another "lets remove PvP from cyrodiil" thread...
Naw... Let's make it nine factions though.
Lol, Cyrodiil would look like a rainbow with all of those different colored banners
I call team unicorn
Team Unicorn is just south of Allessia... always.0 -
grizzledcroc✭✭✭✭I wouldnt use gameplay mechanics as exact way events happen with 1t. Lore wise the vanilla go in order no matter what we did up till Vvardenfell which is still debatable with its timezone, but mostly it seems after the events of the main story since the Daedric war plot line is starting unfold . But as for the war its prob for the most part slowing down to just petty skirmishes in just CyrodiilEdited by grizzledcroc on May 31, 2017 9:53PM0 -
Elsterchen✭✭✭✭✭
✭BlackSparrow wrote: »When all else fails, blame Dragon Break.
Personally, I'm with you... I like to think that the three faction leaders coming together to handle Molag Bal would help resolve that particular conflict...Even if the leaders didn't do much but snipe at one another and barely linger long enough to send in the Fighters and Mages Guilds.
But this game generally treats time fairly loosely. We can assume that Cyrodiil is set in the same time period as the other original zones, with the DLCs and Morrowind progressing from there. It wouldn't take much for conflict to start back up, but it seems that most of the factions have turned their attention inward in the aftermath of the Planemeld.
This time period has always been one big vague question mark, so ZOS can play fast and loose with the timeline and there's no official answer here. We'll basically have to see from future releases whether you're right.
Actually all 3 leaders only agreed to tolerate the cooperation in coldhabour - and they do not agreed to this because they wish to build up diplomatic bonds, but because a deadric prince can kill each of them ... and their armies and every living beeing for that matter. Adding to this all leaders highlighted that this cooperation will not affect war in cyrodiil, nor do they take part in the fighting in couldhabour personally, or have a great investment (money or troops) in this fights. The main reason they needed to agree was due to the activity of the mages and fighters guild and small squads of each fraction. As the mages and fighters guild cooperate beyond alliance borders they agreed to staying neutral in the 3-banners war. The exeption of a fight in coldhabour therefore needed to be granted by all 3 rulers.
Thats the simple story behind it, i don't get why this should in any way point to an end of the three banner war.4 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Trouble with placing the new morrowind release inside of any sort of timeline is it seems to be after the events of the main story for old characters but before the events for new.
New characters now See Vvardenfell story line first (if played in order of where you pick up quests) and then will see the events that start the original release happen to them when they travel to the mainland.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
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ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Trouble with placing the new morrowind release inside of any sort of timeline is it seems to be after the events of the main story for old characters but before the events for new.
New characters now See Vvardenfell story line first (if played in order of where you pick up quests) and then will see the events that start the original release happen to them when they travel to the mainland.
Oh yeah?
Haen't made a new toon, so i wasn't aware of that.
That needs fixin'.
I assume that's the plot hole someone mentioned above."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0