Direct Damage

MCBIZZLE300

Can someone please tell me what is classed as direct damage? Basically i want to know if snipe and its morphs are classed as direct damage? CP allocation is a headache now!

Makato

basically everything that hits directly , like dizzy swing and puncture .
But then you have the weird ones like Poison injection where the initial hit gets affected but not the DoT , everything that is channeled will not be affected , Hot's and Dot's will also not be affected , everything that does a burst amount of dmg will probable be affected. Hope this helps

taiji2078

Anything that isn't AOE (area of effect) or DOT (damage over time) is direct damage.

Snipe's first damage is direct damage. The rest is DOT. The first damage is affected by CP while the DOT poison damage afterwards isn't increased by CP.

This I didn't test it on Snipe tho', I've tested it on my sorc's magicka abilities and it works like this. Maybe someone could confirm precisely for Snipe since I do not use it.

Qbiken

Channeled abilites aren´´t affected by "MAster at arms" either.

MCBIZZLE300

so snipe or no snipe? its just for my pvp build.

taiji2078

Obi is correct. I forgot about channeled damage.

For snipe is ok to go for CP MaA. Anyway, test it before. It takes less than 1 minute. My first CP reset was for free, so it's really easy (and again free) to test.

MCBIZZLE300

Ok, ty for your help!

Ulo

We really need some developer clarification on this, I've heard a lot of different opinions on what direct damage is, and that's assuming the mechanic is working as intended.

GiuEliN0

Snipe is DIRECT Damage, Focused Aim too, I don't tested lethal arrow btw.

danno8

Ulo wrote: »

We really need some developer clarification on this, I've heard a lot of different opinions on what direct damage is, and that's assuming the mechanic is working as intended.

Especially the AoE part. I might test that today. I can understand if completely DoT AoE's like Wall of Elements were not considered direct damage, but there are several AoE that have an upfront damage component that is separate from any DoT component, like Blazing Spear and Caltrops for example.

I am not certain if those upfront component are affected or not.

makreth

Anything that says dmg over x time or deals dmg every y sec for z duration is affected by thaumaturge.

The rest are direct attacks.

Also tooltips are falsely displaying man at arms buffing damage on many dot abilities (especially those of the type deals x dmg every y sec). They are affected by thaumaturge although it's not displayed on tooltips.

Ohhgrizyyy

Anything that basically hits with enitial damage, Nothing thats a Dot besides Soul Assault and maybe Radiant, Oh and proc sets get effected and the tooltip on them is increased with Master at Arms....you're welcome

DRXHarbinger

How about no snipe spam and get stuck in to your enemy up close and personal.

Kay1

taiji2078 wrote: »

Obi is correct. I forgot about channeled damage.

For snipe is ok to go for CP MaA. Anyway, test it before. It takes less than 1 minute. My first CP reset was for free, so it's really easy (and again free) to test.

Radiant and Sweeps get increased by that CP tho

kalarro

taiji2078 wrote: »

Anything that isn't AOE (area of effect) or DOT (damage over time) is direct damage.

Since when is AoE not direct damage? It's totally another category

Direct Damage or Damage over time
Single target damage or Area of Effect Damage

A skill should be 1 of each category. DD or AoE makes no sense, it can be both or none.

I'm talking about games in general and common sense, no idea about the CP you are talkin about

raasdal

Top the OP;

Snipe is Direct Damage.

makreth wrote: »

Anything that says dmg over x time or deals dmg every y sec for z duration is affected by thaumaturge.

The rest are direct attacks.

Also tooltips are falsely displaying man at arms buffing damage on many dot abilities (especially those of the type deals x dmg every y sec). They are affected by thaumaturge although it's not displayed on tooltips.

You are both right and wrong.

"Damage every X Second" is per definition Direct Damage, and will proc sets that require such (like Selene).

HOWEVER, it is very possible that the Thaumaturge is incorrectly associated with skills that are actually Direct Damage. Would not be the first time.

Also, the Tooltip writers are not always the smartest ants.

Other than that, i see ALOT of confusion again, regarding Channels, AoE's etc. etc. Which are completely different systems. I will copy paste a guide here, i wrote in another thread as well.;

---

Stamina / Magicka based

Any skill scales from either one (and power).

DoT or DD

Any skill is either Direct Damage or Damage over Time. This is easy to figure out, by looking at the tooltip

Ground AoE / AoE / Single Target

Describes wether a skill effects multiple opponents in an area, or just one target.

Physical / Magical / Elemental / Posion / Disease etc.

All damage has a type, which are all independent, but can be categorized into being either Magical and scaling with Spell Pen, or Physical and scaling with Physical Pen. Many people often get Physical Pen / confused with the Physical damage type.

So... ANY skill in the game, will have ONE of each of the above. Lets take Blade Cloak (DW Skill) as an example. Blade Cloak is;

1. Stamina Based
2. Direct Damage
3. AoE
4. Physical Damage

A different example, could be Burning Embers (DK Skill)

1. Magicka Based
2. DoT
3. Single Target
4. Flame Damage (Elemental)

----

Besides from these, there are alot of other concepts, such as Channels, Melee, Projectile etc. which can be affixed to any skill, regardless of the above composition. These are not here, because no skill NEEDS to be either of these mentioned.

paulsimonps

Btw, for those that don't know. AoE DoTs that don't tick every second. Like the scamp or blade cloak are Direct damage. Tested it myself, bladecloak even proced Selens which only procs on direct damage.

makreth

Kay1 wrote: »

taiji2078 wrote: »

Obi is correct. I forgot about channeled damage.

For snipe is ok to go for CP MaA. Anyway, test it before. It takes less than 1 minute. My first CP reset was for free, so it's really easy (and again free) to test.

Radiant and Sweeps get increased by that CP tho

It's a tooltip error.

@raasdal I know, but I'm going with what is working on live atm and these abilities are affected by thaumaturge so I enlist them into dots. They are direct atks (should be thus the white color combat text) every x seconds but ZOS has done nothing to sort this mess out.

Most aoe are/considered dots (boosted by thaumaturge, yet they are boosted ONLY in tooltip by man at arms). And these AOEs are of the type dealing damage every x seconds (Which they should rightfully be Direct Atks, thus the white color combat text and not orange which is for dots).

Dagoth_Rac

Kay1 wrote: »

taiji2078 wrote: »

Obi is correct. I forgot about channeled damage.

For snipe is ok to go for CP MaA. Anyway, test it before. It takes less than 1 minute. My first CP reset was for free, so it's really easy (and again free) to test.

Radiant and Sweeps get increased by that CP tho

The tooltip or actual damage? A lot of tooltips are getting increased by Master At Arms, but the actual damage done is not changing based on points in Master Of Arms. You need to do actual tests on target dummies and mobs to see what is really happening. The tooltips in this game are largely a mess and often inaccurate.

supaskrub

Glad I used search first and found this "fresh" thread, there is a similar question that i was going to ask myself regarding direct damage.

Q) Relentless Focus has a chance to proc "Spectral Bow" if you string together consecutive light or heavy attacks, as relentless focus is a self buff of sorts then it can't (in my understanding) be a direct damage attack as in iteslf it does no damage. So where does that leave spectral bow?.. is it direct damage or not?

SturgeHammer

ZOS sould establish some symbology to use on ability tool tips that show what types of damage the ability does, similar to the role icons already in game.

Soleya

I mentioned this in another thread. Templar's Puncturing Sweeps is affected by Thaurmaturge and Master at Arms.

So it's not very clear what is a DOT vs Direct Damage, or if the sweeps is actually a bug, etc.

Would be nice if ZOS just listed all the skills that are affected by which. This would allow us to verify if they are working as intended.

WuffyCerulei

Anything that doesn't do damage over time. Take a templar's main spammable: sweeps. It's considered a DoT cuz it does certain damage over a period of time. (I know the stam version's broke tho.) AoEs can be direct too. Like Impulse or Arrow Spray(not Acid Spray) are considered direct damage, while things like Liquid Lightning and whatnot are considered DoTs.

idk

Direct damage is that which is not a dot.

Poison injection initial hot should be direct damage but the lingering dot is not. Master at arms is affects that which is not a dot whole thaumaturge affects dots only.

danno8

All right so I did some testing today.

I took points in and out of Master at Arms, replacing them in Staff Expert as necessary in order to keep the same number of points in each tree and tested 4 different AoE skills. All damage is recorded using the actual FCT values, not tooltips! Here are the results:

With 45 points in MaA:

Luminous Shards initial damage: 1812, DoT 309
Reflective Light initial damage: 1890, DoT 782
Caltrops initial damage: 513, DoT 440
Whirling Blades damage: 1354

With 45 points in Staff Expert:
Luminous Shards : 1812, DoT 309 - both unchanged
Reflective Light : 1664 - decrease, DoT 782 unchanged
Caltrops: 439 -decrease, DoT 440 -unchanged
Whirling Blades: 1178 -decreased.

So basically for all the AoE skills, except for Luminous Shards (Templars get screwed again ), Master at Arms does increase the damage of the initial burst damage of and not the DoT component, which makes sense to me.

I only tested Templar so someone else can confirm with another class if they wish.

danno8

Soleya wrote: »

I mentioned this in another thread. Templar's Puncturing Sweeps is affected by Thaurmaturge and Master at Arms.

So it's not very clear what is a DOT vs Direct Damage, or if the sweeps is actually a bug, etc.

Would be nice if ZOS just listed all the skills that are affected by which. This would allow us to verify if they are working as intended.

Puncturing Sweep is not affected by Master at Arms. It was the first thing I tested. Both the tooltip and the actual damage done to the target skeleton made no change when I pulled points out of MaA and put them into Staff Expert.

sekou_trayvond

This Direct damage addition to CP really illustrates how ZoS needs to better define the terms in which we are playing this game ( and in the case of PvP, against each other).

While I appreciate the yeoman work of those here on the forums and such to assist in categorizing DD, ZoS really shouldn't be leaving the damage definitions of their game up to commenters and streamers to promulgate.

Sigh.

Moncho11

supaskrub wrote: »

Glad I used search first and found this "fresh" thread, there is a similar question that i was going to ask myself regarding direct damage.

Q) Relentless Focus has a chance to proc "Spectral Bow" if you string together consecutive light or heavy attacks, as relentless focus is a self buff of sorts then it can't (in my understanding) be a direct damage attack as in iteslf it does no damage. So where does that leave spectral bow?.. is it direct damage or not?

The spectral bow is a proc but it is direct damage. The new master at arms also increases dmg of procs that do direct damage regardless if it's single target or AoE. So the new CP affects a stamblade's surprise attack, power extraction, killer's blade, ambush, and incapaciting strike. For DW it affects rending slashes(first hit), blade cloak, hidden blade and steel tornado. For bow it affects snipe(both morphs), poison injection(first hit), scatter shot and arrow spray. Finally for 2 hander it affects uppercut, cleave(first hit), crit charge, and reverse slash. Also any monster set that does dmg that is not over time so Selene or Velidreth for example.

supaskrub

Moncho11 wrote: »

supaskrub wrote: »

Glad I used search first and found this "fresh" thread, there is a similar question that i was going to ask myself regarding direct damage.

Q) Relentless Focus has a chance to proc "Spectral Bow" if you string together consecutive light or heavy attacks, as relentless focus is a self buff of sorts then it can't (in my understanding) be a direct damage attack as in iteslf it does no damage. So where does that leave spectral bow?.. is it direct damage or not?

The spectral bow is a proc but it is direct damage. The new master at arms also increases dmg of procs that do direct damage regardless if it's single target or AoE. So the new CP affects a stamblade's surprise attack, power extraction, killer's blade, ambush, and incapaciting strike. For DW it affects rending slashes(first hit), blade cloak, hidden blade and steel tornado. For bow it affects snipe(both morphs), poison injection(first hit), scatter shot and arrow spray. Finally for 2 hander it affects uppercut, cleave(first hit), crit charge, and reverse slash. Also any monster set that does dmg that is not over time so Selene or Velidreth for example.

Thanks for taking the time to answer, thats certainly cleared things up for me..