Battlegrounds are unfair and need a TIER system

MeinChurro

If you are going to market your new expansion towards new and returning ELDER SCROLLS players including the new pvp mode in these advertisements PvP should be playable for them. Yes, I said playable, it is not at all playable in any way whatsoever. Having a large BG area and quests for this in the first major city for the apparent NEW starting zone just adds insult to injury. If I am losing you, Here's the bottom line. When I hit level 10 I can jump straight into PvP BG or cyrodiil as can any brand new player, however when, as a new player in particular, you join you have a very, VERY rude awakening. You are facing players with hundreds of skill points (level 50 cp630 much of the time) while you on your lowly level 10 have maybe a dozen skill points most of your skills (and passives I might add) LOCKED, no second weapon so you lose out on an entire set of skills. It is egregious that you think this isn't a problem in allowing this to happen with no tiers. Even if you were at the same level same low level crafted gear set, you would still be missing a huge amount of skills and passives. A major disadvantage. I don't even have a third skill unlocked on my main skill line. Utterly ridiculous Your bolster is absolute dog poo as well.

ADD PVP TIERS. Specifically to Battlegrounds, Cyrodiil it is less noticeable since you can just run with a large group and pretend you are helping, and actually you can help more in that, but for a Battleground with MUCH fewer players this is a necessity. Fix this.

Grunim

Excellent points, I agree.

You reminded me of how I and others gave feedback back in 2013 that it's an odd design choice to allow players to enter Cyrodiil at level 10 while a player does not have access to another skill bar until level 15.

Perhaps now that Battlegrounds is here this could be revisited.

Koensol

Before they add or change anything with BGs, they need to fix the system first, because right now it is just game breakingly broken.

Rohamad_Ali

I thought they split them up a little more . CP is removed but didn't they make those for under level 50 players ?

MeinChurro

Grunim wrote: »

Excellent points, I agree.

You reminded me of how I and others gave feedback back in 2013 that it's an odd design choice to allow players to enter Cyrodiil at level 10 while a player does not have access to another skill bar until level 15.

Perhaps now that Battlegrounds is here this could be revisited.

It needs to be. I came back personally specifically because I love battlegrounds in other MMO'S, as a primarily pvp player in any other mmo I play, but do not enjoy this or GW2 style PvP. The balancing is completely off and so stupid. Sometimes these are 3v3v3 YOU NEED TO be able to help your teammates, at it's current state unless I play on my main I cannot do anything, but that isn't what I am complaining about. All this new content specifically aimed at new and returning players and I STILL have to get into a specific master crafted set of gear and build right to even compete - and that's at max level. They allow level 10's to compete with all these restrictions in place, and it is just impossible to do no matter how good you are or what you have, and even if you could you would still be missing out on the second set of skills and a massive amount of passives, etc.

Koensol wrote: »

Before they add or change anything with BGs, they need to fix the system first, because right now it is just game breakingly broken.

That is true, I have to press the button at least 15 times before it even queues me.

MeinChurro

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I thought they split them up a little more . CP is removed but didn't they make those for under level 50 players ?

I honestly don't even know how they are supposedly splitting players up. I just know on my level 10 I am doing NOTHING against other players and I mean literally NOTHING. I have as many skill points in everything I should have as possible, to no avail. If this is how it is it should not be playable at level 10. On my level 10 AND my main the battleground I queue for says the exact same thing, so I assume that on my main I could be fighting level 10's.

Actually I yes, I did in fact see a level 630 cp on a name bar of an enemy player in the last bg I did on my trash level 10 warden. Had a brainfart.

SleepyTroll

There was supposed to be an option for players under 50, I'm guessing there are not enough players to do that since I'm always fighting the same people in every BG all day. And the fact that solo queue goes up against premade like every other match. Hopefully, it's just because of it being early access.

MeinChurro

SleepyTroll wrote: »

There was supposed to be an option for players under 50, I'm guessing there are not enough players to do that since I'm always fighting the same people in every BG all day. And the fact that solo queue goes up against premade like every other match. Hopefully, it's just because of it being early access.

Take a guess why you aren't seeing anybody else playing. I'm not saying an unfair no tier system is the singular cause, but I'm sure after one match the majority of new players even who attempt to try BG's never do it again.

Also, someone tried to argue that level 10's should just not do PvP at all until they are leveled. I agree in it's current state they shouldn't... SO WHY CAN I PLAY IT AT LEVEL 10?!

Emma_Overload

No CP only Battlegrounds is the cause of this problem. All ZOS has to do is enable CP Battlegrounds, and all the CP630 players you are complaining about will flock there.

MeinChurro

Emma_Overload wrote: »

No CP only Battlegrounds is the cause of this problem. All ZOS has to do is enable CP Battlegrounds, and all the CP630 players you are complaining about will flock there.

Exactly.. tiered BG's as I suggested.

MeinChurro

It needs more than just 50- and 50+ CP tier though, in my opinion. There is a big gap between those.

Meant to edit not double quote post. Sorry.

Publius_Scipio

I can't even get past the queue. And I need to rapidly click "join queue" twenty times before it starts the timer.

andreasranasen

I wish ESO had a different character select screen for PvP. I loved this in Guild Wars 1. You could create a PvP character, a character you could only play PvP with and not enter any PvE maps with. This was very exciting because it helped people try out new builds while being (almost) max.

Of course you could always just enter PvP with your PvE character as well.

souravami

Even now it can take you 30-40 mins of que time to get in a match.
If you fragment the que with tiers then get ready to wait 2 hours to get in a match.

SickDuck

Cp vs non-cp split would solve nothing. It is the pvp experience that matters the most. A good player with resources can do a lot even on a lvl 10 player. It is showing in Cyrodiil but I guess it will be more noticable in the BG. Tiering would be really useful but based on AvA ranks not cp rank.

Sharee

SickDuck wrote: »

Cp vs non-cp split would solve nothing. It is the pvp experience that matters the most. A good player with resources can do a lot even on a lvl 10 player.

I have a lot of PvP experience. Playing on my main i went 20 kills 2 deaths in a BG match. Yet when i play on my newbie level 10-ish character, i have absolutely no chance (except when facing a similar-level character).

So yes, PvP experience matters, but not the most.

Docmandu

And so it begins...

Tonnopesce

SleepyTroll wrote: »

There was supposed to be an option for players under 50, I'm guessing there are not enough players to do that since I'm always fighting the same people in every BG all day. And the fact that solo queue goes up against premade like every other match. Hopefully, it's just because of it being early access.

Not everyone know that if you smash the join buttons 15-20 times the queue works.
I believe most of the people after the first, second attempt just give up and flag the sistema as broked.

By far the battlegrounds are the worst pvp experience i had, and level was not an issue in beta since everyone was using templates.

Zos need to aknowledge this before the game goes out of the early acces and more important before it hits the consoles.
In consoles where the playerbase is more casual oriented, they want to have fun immediatly not hope to join a balanced match.

If they not fix asap this can be the last nail in the coffin for eso pvp.

MeinChurro

Tonnopesce wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

There was supposed to be an option for players under 50, I'm guessing there are not enough players to do that since I'm always fighting the same people in every BG all day. And the fact that solo queue goes up against premade like every other match. Hopefully, it's just because of it being early access.

Zos need to aknowledge this before the game goes out of the early acces and more important before it hits the consoles.
In consoles where the playerbase is more casual oriented, they want to have fun immediatly not hope to join a balanced match.

If they not fix asap this can be the last nail in the coffin for eso pvp.

Exactly. I returmed hoping the Battlegrounds would extend my play. Good thing I already have a leveled character. Too bad for the new players who have to level to 50 (at least), buy a crafted set off some random (it'll take them months to get those traits), and look up high level builds specifically for PvP. I'm sorry high level exploit builds* is what I was suggested in zone chat, or be shoehorned into what was it?.. Magicka NB?

MeinChurro

I know this is a double post, but I gotta say this because this is hilarious. Joined another BG this time on my lower level NB with a pvp set I did get crafted awhile back.. Anyway, first thing I see is a level 24 new player asking "isn't this supposed to scale?". Because of how horribly our team was getting rolled. "fighting against level 1000's!".

I love it.

Yasha

I think the reward system needs to be looked at as well. Basically the rewards atm are totally useless: I mainly just get crappy green gear which is won't help a new player to gear up and be competitive, or a geared player to get better/more diverse sets.

A better system would be to award tokens that can be traded for good pvp sets. That way even if you are weak you can start saving for decent gear, and if you are already well geared you can get other worthwhile gear.

Sharee

Yasha wrote: »

I think the reward system needs to be looked at as well. Basically the rewards atm are totally useless: I mainly just get crappy green gear which is won't help a new player to gear up and be competitive, or a geared player to get better/more diverse sets.

A better system would be to award tokens that can be traded for good pvp sets. That way even if you are weak you can start saving for decent gear, and if you are already well geared you can get other worthwhile gear.

Not sure if you noticed, but there actually is a merchant that sells the new PvP sets for AP, in the gladiator enclave in Vivec city. Its still a bit random since he sells containers, not directly items, but its better than nothing.

zaria

Sharee wrote: »

SickDuck wrote: »

Cp vs non-cp split would solve nothing. It is the pvp experience that matters the most. A good player with resources can do a lot even on a lvl 10 player.

I have a lot of PvP experience. Playing on my main i went 20 kills 2 deaths in a BG match. Yet when i play on my newbie level 10-ish character, i have absolutely no chance (except when facing a similar-level character).

So yes, PvP experience matters, but not the most.

Can imagine, notice how my low level alts perform worse than the max level ones even with crafted sets at level.

Vaoh

OP you are assuming that the Battlegrounds queue will actually put you in a game!

But yes I totally agree.

Yasha

Sharee wrote: »

Yasha wrote: »

I think the reward system needs to be looked at as well. Basically the rewards atm are totally useless: I mainly just get crappy green gear which is won't help a new player to gear up and be competitive, or a geared player to get better/more diverse sets.

A better system would be to award tokens that can be traded for good pvp sets. That way even if you are weak you can start saving for decent gear, and if you are already well geared you can get other worthwhile gear.

Not sure if you noticed, but there actually is a merchant that sells the new PvP sets for AP, in the gladiator enclave in Vivec city. Its still a bit random since he sells containers, not directly items, but its better than nothing.

You always have good info Sharee, thanks!

MeinChurro

lol I thought this was funny. Yeah I know CP isn't disabled apparently. It's still funny to look at. This guy probably has a couple hundred more skill points than me and all his skill lines unlocked.




The point is the majority of my skills are locked. I am missing a gigantic amount of great passives. I am missing a couple ults, several abilities down each skill line. I cannot compete against someone like that logically. I have a crafted pvp set on this character NB actually does some damage unlike, warden, cough, but it is still horrible compared to fighting against players like this. We actually won this match funnily enough, it was pretty even. I mostly stayed back and sniped, wen't in when I could, but this is NOT the norm. There were several cp630s on the other team.

Also, who is having trouble getting queues? Other than players declining them. I get them constantly and actually fairly often within a minute or so. Longest queue before a ready check was maybe 5 minutes. They aren't necessarily good matches, but I'm getting them.

DeHei

if you think, that BGs are unfair for lvl10 player then i agree. But you can easily fix that problem with leveling... Lvl your charakter until you have all skills and passives you want..
When you dont want all this stuff with some weeks of leveling and just want to get all as a present for nothing, then its maybe the wrong game for you..
They allready do very much to make the difference between scrubs and experienced player smaller, but not all player are happy to play allways without CP...
When there isnt a difference anymore, will some guys critisice the bigger experience of other player or something else.. I dont want that and its frustrating to see this process..
Be happy like it is!

MeinChurro

DeHei wrote: »

if you think, that BGs are unfair for lvl10 player then i agree. But you can easily fix that problem with leveling... Lvl your charakter until you have all skills and passives you want..
When you dont want all this stuff with some weeks of leveling and just want to get all as a present for nothing, then its maybe the wrong game for you..
They allready do very much to make the difference between scrubs and experienced player smaller, but not all player are happy to play allways without CP...
When there isnt a difference anymore, will some guys critisice the bigger experience of other player or something else.. I dont want that and its frustrating to see this process..
Be happy like it is!

You have no idea what you are talking about I already refuted this in an earlier post.

MeinChurro wrote: »

Also, someone tried to argue that level 10's should just not do PvP at all until they are leveled. I agree in it's current state they shouldn't... SO WHY CAN I PLAY IT AT LEVEL 10?!

Fine I agree with you BG's are not meant for lower levels, so don't let low levels play them and lock it until 50! That the solution you want/need? I am complaining for the whole, I have a max level character at cp 230 or so I already did a good amount of that. As I said before.

MeinChurro wrote: »

If you are going to market your new expansion towards new and returning ELDER SCROLLS players including the new pvp mode in these advertisements PvP should be playable for them. Yes, I said playable, it is not at all playable in any way whatsoever. Having a large BG area and quests for this in the first major city for the apparent NEW starting zone just adds insult to injury. It is egregious that you think this isn't a problem.

Sharee

DeHei wrote: »

When you dont want all this stuff with some weeks of leveling and just want to get all as a present for nothing, then its maybe the wrong game for you..

No one here wants "a present for nothing". Lowbies don't want to be as powerful as a maxed out player, what they want is not having to fight maxed out players in the firstplace.

DeHei wrote: »

But you can easily fix that problem with leveling... Lvl your charakter until you have all skills and passives you want..

"Just level up" is not a solution. As long as players are allowed to enter PvP at level 10, they have the right to expect a balanced experience at level 10, as much as possible. That means not having to face decked-out CP630's.

Egonieser

They haven't managed to fix even basic group finder features for years now, and you are asking them for tiers? Too much my friend, too much...

F7sus4

Sharee wrote: »

"Just level up" is not a solution. As long as players are allowed to enter PvP at level 10, they have the right to expect a balanced experience at level 10, as much as possible. That means not having to face decked-out CP630's.

A person having $10 total on his bank account should be able to buy $630 tools - as much as person having $630 do. That's not how it works.