First Impressions of Balance - Magicka Templar

jrgray93

This thread is from months ago and is no longer relevant. Stop bumping it.

Saint_Bud

Run embetplasem or on stam reg glyph. Make chest and legs in heavy reinforced and the rest in impen light. On cp campain use a nirn or reinforced shield because of the 75 piont cp passive in the midle red tree. Also a defending weapon can help in light, you will still have 5k pen from light amour passive + the cp you can spend for armour pen.

rashiteb17_ESO

jrgray93 wrote: »

PvP

This is the biggest area of disappointment for me. Most good magicka templars gave up on light armor in PvP a long time ago. The complete lack of stamina sustain and the stamina proc-set meta forced us to either wear heavy or die constantly. The constitution nerf was far too extreme and did nothing to address the reason people were wearing the heavy armor to begin with. I can no longer sustain my stamina in PvP as a magicka templar. It simply takes 2-3 well-timed stuns to kill me. I can't afford to break free, even with CPs invested in reduced cost. I cannot afford to give up my last spell damage glyph for stamina regen if I want to be able to deal any damage. I can slot a shield on my back bar and heavy attack as needed but I'm already filling time heavy attacking on my front bar to make up for the overall sustain nerfs. If I switch to light armor, I stand no chance against the proc sets and my stamina sustain will be even worse.

I feel that the changes to heavy armor hit magicka templars far harder than was necessary. We don't have bubbles and mobility of sorcs, siphoning strikes of NBs, or ultimate resource regeneration of DKs to keep our stamina up. Repentance is useless in a long fight with another player. We have to take the stun and break free. With this change, killing any magicka templar is just a matter of stunning them every time the immunity window is up.

Prior to this update, I won 9-out-of-10 duels and even did plenty of 1vX. I won't argue that templars / heavy armor needed adjustment, but so did the things forcing these play styles. This feels like cutting off the nose to spite the face. It's another example of breaking a play style or class in an attempt to solve a problem that was created elsewhere in the game. I'm not sure I'll bother with PvP anymore.

---

I've been used to a high level of play for a long time, but even I feel completely devastated by this patch. I'm sure I'll find ways to adapt given some more practice. I just honestly feel like the wind has been taken out of my sails. I didn't find enjoyment in anything I did while playing today. It feels as if everything that made my class unique is gone and I'm left with a combat system that plays more like a chore than something fun.

I completely agree. In PVP mag templar has no chance against any stunes. Before patch i could survive in dueling against a mana sorc (survive but no win, beacause of the too low damag we have), now it is impossible. He throws rune cage every time. If you are lucky you survive 2 rune cage, but on the third you have no stamina. So you cant move or cast or anything and you just take damage for 10 second = death penalty.

Really i'm dissapointed with the patches. Patch after patch ZOS nerfs templars, but don't touch sorc. Does ZOS wants all templars to rerol in sorcs, DK etc? Really it is ridicoulous, ZOS is going too far.

TheDoomsdayMonster

You know, I'm not going to share my exact build (too many copy cats nowadays), but I will say that you can absolutely survive the current game in 5 Light/1 Medium/1Heavy (as a Magicka Templar) and be effective...

Just take a good look at the gear sets available in this game and plan carefully; you can have a good blend of Defense, Offense, and Support all rolled into one...

You will be by no means OP, but you will be effective nonetheless and your sustain wont be garbage (the cost reduction associated with 5 Light and the power regen it gives is huge over what you get with 5 Heavy in the current game)...


But yeah, the days of Magicka Templar + 5 Heavy Armor pieces are over...

You are going to have to build with 5 Light in mind and incorporate Defense into it...

But trust me, I play a Magicka Templar with 5 Light/1 Medium/1 Heavy and it can absolutely be done...

Prospero_ESO

After healing through Vet dungeons after the patch imo the change to sustain is noticable but with a few changes to enchantments there is more or less no difference. I like the change to rushed ceremony, as it invites to more awareness.

The spear shards change, well i don´t get that shared cooldown with orbs thing, imo group play in an mmo is something that developers should encourage but zos seems to have a different opinion on that...

The changes to repentance and to sacred ground on the other hand are the most stupid changes imo in this patch, they are completely unjustified the way zos implemented them. 100% major mending uptime was a problem but to change it from 100% to 0% is i don´t know how to say it, maybe unprofessional is the right word. Imagine a doctor that cures headache through cutting of the head..... But i think we all know why they did that, you needed some sales incentives for the warden did you zos *wink wink nudge nudge*

But at least for vet dungeons the templar as a healer is not broken as a few people have feared.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

You know, I'm not going to share my exact build (too many copy cats nowadays), but I will say that you can absolutely survive the current game in 5 Light/1 Medium/1Heavy (as a Magicka Templar) and be effective...

Just take a good look at the gear sets available in this game and plan carefully; you can have a good blend of Defense, Offense, and Support all rolled into one...

You will be by no means OP, but you will be effective nonetheless and your sustain wont be garbage (the cost reduction associated with 5 Light and the power regen it gives is huge over what you get with 5 Heavy in the current game)...


But yeah, the days of Magicka Templar + 5 Heavy Armor pieces are over...

You are going to have to build with 5 Light in mind and incorporate Defense into it...

But trust me, I play a Magicka Templar with 5 Light/1 Medium/1 Heavy and it can absolutely be done...

Aren't you just a special snowflake.

Vapirko

Not a magplar, but I think everyone is having sustain issues and I don't feel pvp is anymore balanced than last patch, maybe less balanced.

soll

in pve healing I have no issues.

But pvp is sad. especially no-CP, where I always play. Magica is not such a big issue because of resto heavy attacks, but changing of constitution together with new block cost leaves no stamina at all (with sustain heavy set and jewels of misrule). And for me it means end of small scale Cyrodiil.
Didn't try solo pvp magplar (and don't really want it), but for sure it's not going to be heavy, if I can't sustain it on a healer. Light armor, as it being said before? Maybe.

warden ftw!

TheDoomsdayMonster

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

You know, I'm not going to share my exact build (too many copy cats nowadays), but I will say that you can absolutely survive the current game in 5 Light/1 Medium/1Heavy (as a Magicka Templar) and be effective...

Just take a good look at the gear sets available in this game and plan carefully; you can have a good blend of Defense, Offense, and Support all rolled into one...

You will be by no means OP, but you will be effective nonetheless and your sustain wont be garbage (the cost reduction associated with 5 Light and the power regen it gives is huge over what you get with 5 Heavy in the current game)...


But yeah, the days of Magicka Templar + 5 Heavy Armor pieces are over...

You are going to have to build with 5 Light in mind and incorporate Defense into it...

But trust me, I play a Magicka Templar with 5 Light/1 Medium/1 Heavy and it can absolutely be done...

Aren't you just a special snowflake.

Not special, but I am thoughtful and not afraid to think outside of the box and try out armor sets (and builds) that others wont touch...

Ashamray

Magplars are fine in pvp. With new CP it's easy to reduce Break Free cost (was 10% reduction in my pre-Morrowind, now it's 20%), so you are able to break alot of CC's, of course when you don't block everything like a moron.
Heavy armor heavy attack can give you decent amount of stamina, keep it in mind.

TimeWizard

I duel a ton on my magplar and I actually didn't notice much of a differnece with morrowind, just that I run out of magicka occasionally. My stam is great. I can block a ton and still have stam left over to break free.

I run in 6 heavy 1 light with 6 impen (7 on backbar with shield) and 1 sturdy. I am run bloodthorn, soulshine, and sentinal.
I can outsustain and outlast most people I duel, the only times I really lose is when the person I fight can burst me down faster than I can heal.

Cyrediath

Heavy armor stamina builds are superior to heavy armor magicka builds imho.

the_man_of_steal

Mag Templas need some serious fixes our skills cost the most Mag and our regen is trash! We also suffer even more from the changes made to duel wield. I understand some magplars were insanely OP, but most of those were specing into health regen and health with heavy. The changes have made is extremely difficult to make what used to be the most versatile class in the game a viable pvp or pve option. Please @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert address these issues!

Brutusmax1mus

the_man_of_steal wrote: »

Mag Templas need some serious fixes our skills cost the most Mag and our regen is trash! We also suffer even more from the changes made to duel wield. I understand some magplars were insanely OP, but most of those were specing into health regen and health with heavy. The changes have made is extremely difficult to make what used to be the most versatile class in the game a viable pvp or pve option. Please @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert address these issues!

I'm doing fine

DeHei

I really think actually Templar are not bad. Templar would really need a stun. I think something like the stun from blazing spear they had!

But after testing a lot on my templar, i need to say, i feel more balanced then anytime before. I dont know why, it is like my feeling, because the class was nerfed over and over again, but i deal more damage then ever in PvE and was never strong like actually in PvP!

Minno

the_man_of_steal wrote: »

Mag Templas need some serious fixes our skills cost the most Mag and our regen is trash! We also suffer even more from the changes made to duel wield. I understand some magplars were insanely OP, but most of those were specing into health regen and health with heavy. The changes have made is extremely difficult to make what used to be the most versatile class in the game a viable pvp or pve option. Please @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert address these issues!

Templars actually do better in LA than HA for pvp. Here's why:
- pick Breton. Cost reduction passive stack with Templar and LA giving you close to prenerfed CP cost reduction before Morrowind (17%) for basically no gear/enchant change. You also get Regen stats, penetration, and a Max mag boost all of which the Breton needs for missing damage stats/sustain.
- drop vampire. That extra 20% fire DMG will make your spell resistance passive useless which is a core for breton templars. We have purge for snares, can slot two hander for forward momentum, and still be combat effective. Not to mention all that Dawnbreaker DMG running around; ouchies!
- just offset physical resistance missing from LA. If you pick the right items, you should be at 32k spell resistance and 24k physical easily buffed. Add defending, and you'll see 34k/27k. Not as sexy as stacking HA resists, but you'll have 10k penetration without sharpened, 52% crit chance, and 1400 minimum Regen plus the 17% cost reduction which the HA Templars need from gear.

Welcome to the LA Templar meta.

Brutusmax1mus

Minno wrote: »

the_man_of_steal wrote: »

Mag Templas need some serious fixes our skills cost the most Mag and our regen is trash! We also suffer even more from the changes made to duel wield. I understand some magplars were insanely OP, but most of those were specing into health regen and health with heavy. The changes have made is extremely difficult to make what used to be the most versatile class in the game a viable pvp or pve option. Please @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert address these issues!

Templars actually do better in LA than HA for pvp. Here's why:
- pick Breton. Cost reduction passive stack with Templar and LA giving you close to prenerfed CP cost reduction before Morrowind (17%) for basically no gear/enchant change. You also get Regen stats, penetration, and a Max mag boost all of which the Breton needs for missing damage stats/sustain.
- drop vampire. That extra 20% fire DMG will make your spell resistance passive useless which is a core for breton templars. We have purge for snares, can slot two hander for forward momentum, and still be combat effective. Not to mention all that Dawnbreaker DMG running around; ouchies!
- just offset physical resistance missing from LA. If you pick the right items, you should be at 32k spell resistance and 24k physical easily buffed. Add defending, and you'll see 34k/27k. Not as sexy as stacking HA resists, but you'll have 10k penetration without sharpened, 52% crit chance, and 1400 minimum Regen plus the 17% cost reduction which the HA Templars need from gear.

Welcome to the LA Templar meta.

Please Inform me of the light armor set up that gives that resistance without making you hit like a noodle.

Do you mean with focus and blood spawn procd?

Drop vamp? Blasphemy. This is a templar we are talking about right?

You think 1400 regen is enough? I can't play with less than 1800, even in light armor.

Sounds like a zerg build to me actually, no offense. Specifically, what gear are you taking about.

danno8

Minno wrote: »

the_man_of_steal wrote: »

Mag Templas need some serious fixes our skills cost the most Mag and our regen is trash! We also suffer even more from the changes made to duel wield. I understand some magplars were insanely OP, but most of those were specing into health regen and health with heavy. The changes have made is extremely difficult to make what used to be the most versatile class in the game a viable pvp or pve option. Please @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert address these issues!

Templars actually do better in LA than HA for pvp. Here's why:
- pick Breton. Cost reduction passive stack with Templar and LA giving you close to prenerfed CP cost reduction before Morrowind (17%) for basically no gear/enchant change. You also get Regen stats, penetration, and a Max mag boost all of which the Breton needs for missing damage stats/sustain.
- drop vampire. That extra 20% fire DMG will make your spell resistance passive useless which is a core for breton templars. We have purge for snares, can slot two hander for forward momentum, and still be combat effective. Not to mention all that Dawnbreaker DMG running around; ouchies!
- just offset physical resistance missing from LA. If you pick the right items, you should be at 32k spell resistance and 24k physical easily buffed. Add defending, and you'll see 34k/27k. Not as sexy as stacking HA resists, but you'll have 10k penetration without sharpened, 52% crit chance, and 1400 minimum Regen plus the 17% cost reduction which the HA Templars need from gear.

Welcome to the LA Templar meta.

Light armour gives no max magicka boost, though you forgot to mention the spell crit.

For Vampire, Elusive Mist has saved my hide far more than the extra fire/fighters guild weakness has killed me.

Like the poster above mentions, the only way to get 27k physical resistance while wearing light armor is to choose entirely defensive sets, traits glyphs. With full light armour and major ward you'll have 13k physical resistance. How do you get the extra 14k?

TheDoomsdayMonster

danno8 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

the_man_of_steal wrote: »

Mag Templas need some serious fixes our skills cost the most Mag and our regen is trash! We also suffer even more from the changes made to duel wield. I understand some magplars were insanely OP, but most of those were specing into health regen and health with heavy. The changes have made is extremely difficult to make what used to be the most versatile class in the game a viable pvp or pve option. Please @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert address these issues!

Templars actually do better in LA than HA for pvp. Here's why:
- pick Breton. Cost reduction passive stack with Templar and LA giving you close to prenerfed CP cost reduction before Morrowind (17%) for basically no gear/enchant change. You also get Regen stats, penetration, and a Max mag boost all of which the Breton needs for missing damage stats/sustain.
- drop vampire. That extra 20% fire DMG will make your spell resistance passive useless which is a core for breton templars. We have purge for snares, can slot two hander for forward momentum, and still be combat effective. Not to mention all that Dawnbreaker DMG running around; ouchies!
- just offset physical resistance missing from LA. If you pick the right items, you should be at 32k spell resistance and 24k physical easily buffed. Add defending, and you'll see 34k/27k. Not as sexy as stacking HA resists, but you'll have 10k penetration without sharpened, 52% crit chance, and 1400 minimum Regen plus the 17% cost reduction which the HA Templars need from gear.

Welcome to the LA Templar meta.

Light armour gives no max magicka boost, though you forgot to mention the spell crit.

For Vampire, Elusive Mist has saved my hide far more than the extra fire/fighters guild weakness has killed me.

Like the poster above mentions, the only way to get 27k physical resistance while wearing light armor is to choose entirely defensive sets, traits glyphs. With full light armour and major ward you'll have 13k physical resistance. How do you get the extra 14k?

That's a good question...

My Vampire Lord build (which is located in my sig) currently features 31k Spell Resist and 23k Physical Resist with the weapon traits as they currently are (this will drop to around 29k Spell and 21k Physical after the update hits console)...

With that build I am wearing two Defensive Sets and 1 Offensive Set (Mighty Chudan and Combat Physician are the Defensive Sets; Vampire Lord is the Offensive Set)...

So yeah, I'd like to know the set up that allows 34k Spell/27k Physical Resist when in Light Armor...

TheDoomsdayMonster

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

the_man_of_steal wrote: »

Mag Templas need some serious fixes our skills cost the most Mag and our regen is trash! We also suffer even more from the changes made to duel wield. I understand some magplars were insanely OP, but most of those were specing into health regen and health with heavy. The changes have made is extremely difficult to make what used to be the most versatile class in the game a viable pvp or pve option. Please @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert address these issues!

Templars actually do better in LA than HA for pvp. Here's why:
- pick Breton. Cost reduction passive stack with Templar and LA giving you close to prenerfed CP cost reduction before Morrowind (17%) for basically no gear/enchant change. You also get Regen stats, penetration, and a Max mag boost all of which the Breton needs for missing damage stats/sustain.
- drop vampire. That extra 20% fire DMG will make your spell resistance passive useless which is a core for breton templars. We have purge for snares, can slot two hander for forward momentum, and still be combat effective. Not to mention all that Dawnbreaker DMG running around; ouchies!
- just offset physical resistance missing from LA. If you pick the right items, you should be at 32k spell resistance and 24k physical easily buffed. Add defending, and you'll see 34k/27k. Not as sexy as stacking HA resists, but you'll have 10k penetration without sharpened, 52% crit chance, and 1400 minimum Regen plus the 17% cost reduction which the HA Templars need from gear.

Welcome to the LA Templar meta.

Drop vamp? Blasphemy. This is a templar we are talking about right?

100% agree...

Us Templars absolutely need Vamp in PvP (unless you are running a supertanky build that is lacking offense) as we have no means to escape foes otherwise...

jrgray93

Dear lord, people. This thread should be on display at a history museum. This isn't at all a productive discussion. Let it die. I have a templar build guide I'm working on for pvp right now and I guarantee it's among the best out there. I'll post it soon.

Minno

danno8 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

the_man_of_steal wrote: »

Mag Templas need some serious fixes our skills cost the most Mag and our regen is trash! We also suffer even more from the changes made to duel wield. I understand some magplars were insanely OP, but most of those were specing into health regen and health with heavy. The changes have made is extremely difficult to make what used to be the most versatile class in the game a viable pvp or pve option. Please @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert address these issues!

Templars actually do better in LA than HA for pvp. Here's why:
- pick Breton. Cost reduction passive stack with Templar and LA giving you close to prenerfed CP cost reduction before Morrowind (17%) for basically no gear/enchant change. You also get Regen stats, penetration, and a Max mag boost all of which the Breton needs for missing damage stats/sustain.
- drop vampire. That extra 20% fire DMG will make your spell resistance passive useless which is a core for breton templars. We have purge for snares, can slot two hander for forward momentum, and still be combat effective. Not to mention all that Dawnbreaker DMG running around; ouchies!
- just offset physical resistance missing from LA. If you pick the right items, you should be at 32k spell resistance and 24k physical easily buffed. Add defending, and you'll see 34k/27k. Not as sexy as stacking HA resists, but you'll have 10k penetration without sharpened, 52% crit chance, and 1400 minimum Regen plus the 17% cost reduction which the HA Templars need from gear.

Welcome to the LA Templar meta.

Light armour gives no max magicka boost, though you forgot to mention the spell crit.

For Vampire, Elusive Mist has saved my hide far more than the extra fire/fighters guild weakness has killed me.

Like the poster above mentions, the only way to get 27k physical resistance while wearing light armor is to choose entirely defensive sets, traits glyphs. With full light armour and major ward you'll have 13k physical resistance. How do you get the extra 14k?

Correct it doesn't give max mag boost. I meant the spell crit.

For me mist form did little to offset the DMG incoming. Still a great skill, but overall I like to be able to control my toon and found other ways to play him. Purge+ speed pots were more fun, and saved a skill slot.

27k is possible. With LA and CP, you can get away without running sharpened+Lord mundas, you don't need to find crit sources since you'll be within the 45% -50 threshold pending buffs/main weapon trait, and because of the Regen aspects of LA you can comfortably roll full DMG enchants (which give more than apprentice). That means you can pick more Regen/defensive mundas stones making you more of a tank instead of a pure glass cannon.

The initial burst is lower, but Templars don't have the initial burst lvl that sorcs+nbs have. Templars wait to line up burst, and you can't do that if in 2 hits you are constantly trying to heal out of execute range (especially if valkyn or DKs are running around while you are in vamp)

Besides, vanilla heavy armor gives you only 15k unbuffed (21k buffed). Using pirate/chudan + 2 points in LA will give you the same physical resistance level as vanilla HA. Except HA users now have to find spell crit, use sharpened+Lord, and find a Regen set which will either match LA's Regen or not even come close. LA users just need to find 4% extra healing and a way to buff stamina during combat. You can even run fullchudan for the buffs and extra health, then add another skill to replace Templar rune.

Minno

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

the_man_of_steal wrote: »

Mag Templas need some serious fixes our skills cost the most Mag and our regen is trash! We also suffer even more from the changes made to duel wield. I understand some magplars were insanely OP, but most of those were specing into health regen and health with heavy. The changes have made is extremely difficult to make what used to be the most versatile class in the game a viable pvp or pve option. Please @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert address these issues!

Templars actually do better in LA than HA for pvp. Here's why:
- pick Breton. Cost reduction passive stack with Templar and LA giving you close to prenerfed CP cost reduction before Morrowind (17%) for basically no gear/enchant change. You also get Regen stats, penetration, and a Max mag boost all of which the Breton needs for missing damage stats/sustain.
- drop vampire. That extra 20% fire DMG will make your spell resistance passive useless which is a core for breton templars. We have purge for snares, can slot two hander for forward momentum, and still be combat effective. Not to mention all that Dawnbreaker DMG running around; ouchies!
- just offset physical resistance missing from LA. If you pick the right items, you should be at 32k spell resistance and 24k physical easily buffed. Add defending, and you'll see 34k/27k. Not as sexy as stacking HA resists, but you'll have 10k penetration without sharpened, 52% crit chance, and 1400 minimum Regen plus the 17% cost reduction which the HA Templars need from gear.

Welcome to the LA Templar meta.

Please Inform me of the light armor set up that gives that resistance without making you hit like a noodle.

Do you mean with focus and blood spawn procd?

Drop vamp? Blasphemy. This is a templar we are talking about right?

You think 1400 regen is enough? I can't play with less than 1800, even in light armor.

Sounds like a zerg build to me actually, no offense. Specifically, what gear are you taking about.

Well I actually get 1650k Regen plus another 1k through Sprint. I dropped vampire after looking at the passives; only thing I was using it for was 10% Regen. I run prisoners+trans or prisoners+smugglers.

Unstable core+purfying light + jabs and it's extra DMG proc are more than enough for some builds. With my resistance levels, I can wait for those bursts to hit since they take 4- 6 seconds to laydown.

I think 1400 is the minimum. I'm comfortable running that amount, but others won't be comfortable with that.

Chudan+pirate buffs give 500 resistance less than bloodspawn. With Dawn's wraith passive, you don't need the ulti gen therefore its combat inferior waiting for procs of bloodspawn. Best part is, You can still run an offensive set/Regen or defensive/Regen if you want. It's more flexible to swap out. Pirate set is not optimal either, you'll take more damage before it procs (resto ulti gives more uptime). Defensive trait on backbar, templars have the healing boosts they need without needing powered or percise for PvP.

And with how unblockable/undodgeable valkyn procs are, it's better to get that sweet 34k spell resistance (without vampire) for 28% mitigation after 15280 penetration.

In combat, my BoL goes for more plus my hot with restoring rune keep me offensive more consistently which for me was more important.