Dk's need Escape Mechanics.

MrBeatDown_

Dk's are the least mobile character in the game right now and with all these sweeping changes it is crippling to players using this class. They didn't even speed up stamina Dk heavy attacks with s/b and 2 hander to compensate for the speed increases they gave everyone else with this new patch so were going to need skills and passives adjusted to compensate for being the worst class in the game to play in pvp. This game has way to many Roots, CC, Stuns, and Slows for a DK to even have a chance of survival in pvp. Stamina Dk only shines when you have a HUGE zerg behind you buffing you up and healing you. That's the illusion that people see when zerging and see a DK that they think is a bad ass. In reality its just not true. The DK has the lowest damage in the game, (Zos had to make proc sets to fix that) no escape mechanics (sorc got the aoe distrupting teleport and Dark Deal infinite heal and stamina while being more tanky than a DK and they even have speed buffs just for using armor skills While NB gets to teleport Stealth and also has cheap speed buffs which also buff defense which allows them to always be at full health when they cast rally while stealthed And Templars are not as strong with escape mechanics BUT they also have an AOE disrupt that slows and damages people and the radius is bigger than caltrops......... While they one click full heal and its very cheap allowing them to escape) , Healing just got nerfed, and the cost of Rapids and its morphs are way to excessive. You cast rapids one time while your engaged in combat and you might get 5 meters out of it before your completely out of resources. VERY BAD GAME DESIGN!

Dk's will no longer be able to stand there ground at all with this new update. We need better escape mechanics, better speed buffs, AOE disrupts, Something that is going to allow us to get away from this mess that zos is creating. We have been missing mobility since the game launched and that's one of the reason's why people don't like to play the DK.

And the excuse that DK's are tanky is just absolute garbage. Ive seen tankier Sorcs, Templars, and NB's that can heal better, Have escape mechanics, Have more defense, Deal more damage, and out sustain the DK and have it all wrapped in one package handed to them. DK's need Escape mechanics. Period!

Dk will still be able to do damage next patch with proc sets, but they are literally going to get mowed down like grass next update. Its terrible.

DeadlyRecluse

Just a couple things to note:

Root immunity being added next patch will make escaping a bit easier for everyone.

Mistform is, sadly, the go-to for templar and DK mobility. It works pretty well, if you don't mind biting necks.

MrBeatDown_

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Just a couple things to note:

Root immunity being added next patch will make escaping a bit easier for everyone.

Mistform is, sadly, the go-to for templar and DK mobility. It works pretty well, if you don't mind biting necks.

I missed that part of root immunity in the patch. Thanks for sharing that.

On Mistform though, That is really a crappy skill, You still get hit with slow and then your stuck with deciding if you should break mist form and lose the cost of casting , when the true reason you casted it in the first place is probably because your out of stamina and need to escape. So its really just a waste of resource to cast.

Mistform needs a buff too.

LonePirate

DKs don't need an escape mechanism. What they do need is for the DK melee class skills to do as much damage as the melee weapon skills and do more damage than the ranged class skills of other classes. Also, DKs need better shields than ranged classes such as Sorcs.

Only an idiot would devise a combat system where a ranged class has a higher DPS, more mobility and better shields than a melee class.

MaxwellC

DKs do not need a(n) escape ability, they are made to stand their ground. We do not need a speed buff but instead what we need is for changes to be reverted and also improved so we can finally stand our ground once more. I do not understand why I must stand my ground on mud, if we get some cool things back and updated passives that reflect the current game, then we will be able to flourish.

DeadlyRecluse

MrBeatDown_ wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Just a couple things to note:

Root immunity being added next patch will make escaping a bit easier for everyone.

Mistform is, sadly, the go-to for templar and DK mobility. It works pretty well, if you don't mind biting necks.

I missed that part of root immunity in the patch. Thanks for sharing that.

On Mistform though, That is really a crappy skill, You still get hit with slow and then your stuck with deciding if you should break mist form and lose the cost of casting , when the true reason you casted it in the first place is probably because your out of stamina and need to escape. So its really just a waste of resource to cast.

Mistform needs a buff too.

The key with mistform is to use it to get around a corner, juke in terrain, or scooting back to protective NPCs/group members/etc. If you use it when you are already out of stamina, yeah you are going probably to get nuked. I'd love a buff, but find it capable of some pretty great plays in it's current form.

MrBeatDown_

LonePirate wrote: »

DKs don't need an escape mechanism. What they do need is for the DK melee class skills to do as much damage as the melee weapon skills and do more damage than the ranged class skills of other classes. Also, DKs need better shields than ranged classes such as Sorcs.

Only an idiot would devise a combat system where a ranged class has a higher DPS, more mobility and better shields than a melee class.

Your not going to be able to stand your ground when everyone is light/ Heavy attacking you and you cant get out away from them. you will lose your regen and be out of resources before you can kill the bulk of them. The way your describing a Dk is that they should be able to just 1 shot people to compensate for not being able to stand your ground. And we know ZOS wont even consider that.

I'm all for increased dps though if that's how they want to compensate for not being able to stand your ground. We do not have enough utility and we need more skill slots per bar to give it to us. They wont do it.

Chilly-McFreeze

LonePirate wrote: »

DKs don't need an escape mechanism. What they do need is for the DK melee class skills to do as much damage as the melee weapon skills and do more damage than the ranged class skills of other classes. Also, DKs need better shields than ranged classes such as Sorcs.

Only an idiot would devise a combat system where a ranged class has a higher DPS, more mobility and better shields than a melee class.

Can't fully agree with that. The idea behind DK was to "stand your ground", so yes, an escape skill would circumvent that idea.
But if you give something more dps than others, it will become the go-to-thing. Take a look at familiar's pulse for an example. Also, while I see where you're coming from with that "ranged vs melee" from an PvE perspective, it's barely a thing in PvP where gap closers negate kiting too great extend.

So, what do DK really need? Either better heal options than what's sheduled for the next update to counter the loss of major mending/ block cost increase or better mitigation as e.g. in bigger shields. Also, a lot of passives need improvement.

Adernath

LonePirate wrote: »

Only an idiot would devise a combat system where a ranged class has a higher DPS, more mobility and better shields than a melee class.

In World of Warcraft that is just the case, but there ranged classes are usually confined to wearing leather and cloth armor.

Khaos_Bane

MaxwellC wrote: »

DKs do not need a(n) escape ability, they are made to stand their ground. We do not need a speed buff but instead what we need is for changes to be reverted and also improved so we can finally stand our ground once more. I do not understand why I must stand my ground on mud, if we get some cool things back and updated passives that reflect the current game, then we will be able to flourish.

I know the problem, @Wrobel just needs to give them a house like he did the Templar. STAY OUT OF MY HOUSE !

MrBeatDown_

I didn't even bring up the Armor's. If your a DK DO NOT WEAR MEDIUM/LIGHT ARMOR, YOU WILL BE INSTA OBLITERATED.

Were pigeon holed into heavy. with maybe 2 medium or you can go with undaunted passive but even that is nerfing yourself.

You will get blowed up so fast if your not in heavy next patch LOL

Ishammael

DYNAMIC ULTIMATE

D0ntevenL1ft

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

DKs do not need a(n) escape ability, they are made to stand their ground. We do not need a speed buff but instead what we need is for changes to be reverted and also improved so we can finally stand our ground once more. I do not understand why I must stand my ground on mud, if we get some cool things back and updated passives that reflect the current game, then we will be able to flourish.

I know the problem, @Wrobel just needs to give them a house like he did the Templar. STAY OUT OF MY HOUSE !

I'd welcome a DK house, give me 8% reduced damage inside it too so I can be a tank like I'm forced into.

LonePirate

MrBeatDown_ wrote: »

I didn't even bring up the Armor's. If your a DK DO NOT WEAR MEDIUM/LIGHT ARMOR, YOU WILL BE INSTA OBLITERATED.

Were pigeon holed into heavy. with maybe 2 medium or you can go with undaunted passive but even that is nerfing yourself.

You will get blowed up so fast if your not in heavy next patch LOL

In PVP, DKs are still "INSTA OBLITERATED" even in heavy armor. My heavy armored Magicka DK routinely has 3 or more 8K+ non-ultimate skill entries on my death recaps.

lunalitetempler

I think templer are in a worse place for mobility don't you? At least you have roots I mean cmon...

Dreyloch

I'd like a better escape mechanic too. Now we do have crit rush, shield charge, chains and leaps. But all of it needs a target and all of it is bugged. Chains are unreliable, ANY charge ability runs the risk of falling thru the world, and leaps are unpredictable on how far you will travel if going into a crowd. You also have times where the animation starts, your wings get stuck and you don't even move at all! (typically in lag situations).

So our choices are stand our ground and get pummeled by 3734382385 zerglings from range. Try to get creative with charge,leap, or chain abilities running the risk of bugging out, or going with an "80kHP build that does zero damage". Oh, and then there's going the magicka pseudo Sorc route. But why not just play a sorc then? /boggle

Some people may think they are helping their faction laughing as zerglings beat on them with that 80khp build. But all your really doing is giving me a target to gain Ultimate so I can go destroy your friends on my Sorc. It's come to a point the devs had to make armor sets to combat this and increase stam on blocking which in turn screws the PvE tanks that really need it.

I have a stam and mDK. What the OP says is true. You pretty much need a group to run them in Cyro. I also understand there has to be a balance between being too tanky, and being able to do at least "good" damage. ZoS has yet to find a way =/...

MrBeatDown_

LonePirate wrote: »

MrBeatDown_ wrote: »

I didn't even bring up the Armor's. If your a DK DO NOT WEAR MEDIUM/LIGHT ARMOR, YOU WILL BE INSTA OBLITERATED.

Were pigeon holed into heavy. with maybe 2 medium or you can go with undaunted passive but even that is nerfing yourself.

You will get blowed up so fast if your not in heavy next patch LOL

In PVP, DKs are still "INSTA OBLITERATED" even in heavy armor. My heavy armored Magicka DK routinely has 3 or more 8K+ non-ultimate skill entries on my death recaps.

You wont be able to duel wield after this thing goes live too. You will be forced to use a stave to regenerate resources and heavy attack. You might be able to get away with S/B on swap since magica damage shields don't work for DK's the way they work for sorcs, I would highly recommend not using a resto staff. A sorc can have 60k magica and insane damage shields. You put 60k magica on a Dk ( I don't even know if its possible) and you might get a 10k shield LOL

MrBeatDown_

lunalitetempler wrote: »

I think templer are in a worse place for mobility don't you? At least you have roots I mean cmon...

roots are poop, only work 20% of the time you cast it, choose targets at random, don't last long, easy to get out of, and are just a waste of magica, WAY TO EXPENSIVE for little to no benefit with a very short duration.

At least the Templars has (maybe not after patch) or had a House. But they still get cheap heals, purge, aoe slow bigger than caltrops that deals damage.

Khaos_Bane

lunalitetempler wrote: »

I think templer are in a worse place for mobility don't you? At least you have roots I mean cmon...

NERF THEM MORE @Wrobel !

CavalryPK

MrBeatDown_ wrote: »

On Mistform though, That is really a crappy skill, You still get hit with slow and then your stuck with deciding if you should break mist form and lose the cost of casting , when the true reason you casted it in the first place is probably because your out of stamina and need to escape. So its really just a waste of resource to cast.

Mistform needs a buff too.

Amen to that.

Khaos_Bane

D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

DKs do not need a(n) escape ability, they are made to stand their ground. We do not need a speed buff but instead what we need is for changes to be reverted and also improved so we can finally stand our ground once more. I do not understand why I must stand my ground on mud, if we get some cool things back and updated passives that reflect the current game, then we will be able to flourish.

I know the problem, @Wrobel just needs to give them a house like he did the Templar. STAY OUT OF MY HOUSE !

I'd welcome a DK house, give me 8% reduced damage inside it too so I can be a tank like I'm forced into.

Then ask for it, you will get it added to your class and removed from ours.

Minno

CavalryPK wrote: »

MrBeatDown_ wrote: »

On Mistform though, That is really a crappy skill, You still get hit with slow and then your stuck with deciding if you should break mist form and lose the cost of casting , when the true reason you casted it in the first place is probably because your out of stamina and need to escape. So its really just a waste of resource to cast.

Mistform needs a buff too.

Amen to that.

That's cause you turkeys hold mist form like it's going to save you from the world ending. Even if you use it to break snares, you'll be snared again and snare poisons still hit mist along with those terrible gap closer snares. Use it to get 75% DMG mitigation, that's it.

Backbar two hander, and use forward momentum. You temps/DKs will thank me later.

NBrookus

MrBeatDown_ wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

MrBeatDown_ wrote: »

I didn't even bring up the Armor's. If your a DK DO NOT WEAR MEDIUM/LIGHT ARMOR, YOU WILL BE INSTA OBLITERATED.

Were pigeon holed into heavy. with maybe 2 medium or you can go with undaunted passive but even that is nerfing yourself.

You will get blowed up so fast if your not in heavy next patch LOL

In PVP, DKs are still "INSTA OBLITERATED" even in heavy armor. My heavy armored Magicka DK routinely has 3 or more 8K+ non-ultimate skill entries on my death recaps.

You wont be able to duel wield after this thing goes live too. You will be forced to use a stave to regenerate resources and heavy attack. You might be able to get away with S/B on swap since magica damage shields don't work for DK's the way they work for sorcs, I would highly recommend not using a resto staff. A sorc can have 60k magica and insane damage shields. You put 60k magica on a Dk ( I don't even know if its possible) and you might get a 10k shield LOL

Best I could do was 53k.

Seeing a 15k whip was really awesome... right before I insta-died from ranged attacks because I was in pajamas and wings don't work for diddly despite their high cost.

I've been trialing "next patch" builds this week in Cyro; i.e. light armor, harness instead of igneous. They are all very underwhelming; we just don't have enough defense or mobility. Unless the meta shifts radically to light/medium -- which I doubt, since proc sets can keep stamplars and stamsorcs in heavy, and magplars need defense -- light armor DK only works with a solid pocket healer, a meat shield and someone who can put out more dps. In other words, the last kid to get picked for the team.

Minno

NBrookus wrote: »

MrBeatDown_ wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

MrBeatDown_ wrote: »

I didn't even bring up the Armor's. If your a DK DO NOT WEAR MEDIUM/LIGHT ARMOR, YOU WILL BE INSTA OBLITERATED.

Were pigeon holed into heavy. with maybe 2 medium or you can go with undaunted passive but even that is nerfing yourself.

You will get blowed up so fast if your not in heavy next patch LOL

In PVP, DKs are still "INSTA OBLITERATED" even in heavy armor. My heavy armored Magicka DK routinely has 3 or more 8K+ non-ultimate skill entries on my death recaps.

You wont be able to duel wield after this thing goes live too. You will be forced to use a stave to regenerate resources and heavy attack. You might be able to get away with S/B on swap since magica damage shields don't work for DK's the way they work for sorcs, I would highly recommend not using a resto staff. A sorc can have 60k magica and insane damage shields. You put 60k magica on a Dk ( I don't even know if its possible) and you might get a 10k shield LOL

Best I could do was 53k.

Seeing a 15k whip was really awesome... right before I insta-died from ranged attacks because I was in pajamas and wings don't work for diddly despite their high cost.

I've been trialing "next patch" builds this week in Cyro; i.e. light armor, harness instead of igneous. They are all very underwhelming; we just don't have enough defense or mobility. Unless the meta shifts radically to light/medium -- which I doubt, since proc sets can keep stamplars and stamsorcs in heavy, and magplars need defense -- light armor DK only works with a solid pocket healer, a meat shield and someone who can put out more dps. In other words, the last kid to get picked for the team.

If you run light armor, run dampen Magicka and 10% in bastion. Run a health bonus monster helm. You should have 23k health, 37k mag and a 9k shield/20% physical DMG mitigation to help offset the lack of physical resistance.

MrBeatDown_

The current Dk house before and after patch. Been this way for a long time now.

Minno

MrBeatDown_ wrote: »

The current Dk house before and after patch. Been this way for a long time now.

Why need a house if you can Sprint around an enemy?


[img][/img]

Xvorg

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

DKs do not need a(n) escape ability, they are made to stand their ground. We do not need a speed buff but instead what we need is for changes to be reverted and also improved so we can finally stand our ground once more. I do not understand why I must stand my ground on mud, if we get some cool things back and updated passives that reflect the current game, then we will be able to flourish.

I know the problem, @Wrobel just needs to give them a house like he did the Templar. STAY OUT OF MY HOUSE !

There's an old joke about templars, DKs and houses... it ends up with the DK invading the house...

MrBeatDown_

Minno wrote: »

MrBeatDown_ wrote: »

The current Dk house before and after patch. Been this way for a long time now.

Why need a house if you can Sprint around an enemy?


[img][/img]

Dk cannot afford to lose any damage to put on a sub standard set. The stamina DK damage is already at the very bottom of the barrel. And proc sets are required to do any type of damage that doesn't tickle the enemy.

Xvorg

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

DKs do not need a(n) escape ability, they are made to stand their ground. We do not need a speed buff but instead what we need is for changes to be reverted and also improved so we can finally stand our ground once more. I do not understand why I must stand my ground on mud, if we get some cool things back and updated passives that reflect the current game, then we will be able to flourish.

I know the problem, @Wrobel just needs to give them a house like he did the Templar. STAY OUT OF MY HOUSE !

I'd welcome a DK house, give me 8% reduced damage inside it too so I can be a tank like I'm forced into.

Then ask for it, you will get it added to your class and removed from ours.

Saddly, ZoS has taken everything we had and replaced it with poor choices.

I want my cinder storm back...

MrBeatDown_

Xvorg wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

DKs do not need a(n) escape ability, they are made to stand their ground. We do not need a speed buff but instead what we need is for changes to be reverted and also improved so we can finally stand our ground once more. I do not understand why I must stand my ground on mud, if we get some cool things back and updated passives that reflect the current game, then we will be able to flourish.

I know the problem, @Wrobel just needs to give them a house like he did the Templar. STAY OUT OF MY HOUSE !

I'd welcome a DK house, give me 8% reduced damage inside it too so I can be a tank like I'm forced into.

Then ask for it, you will get it added to your class and removed from ours.

Saddly, ZoS has taken everything we had and replaced it with poor choices.

I want my cinder storm back...

They could probably make a stamina morph of that and use poison, increase the radius, damage and give major expedition to it, and it would be a decent start.

Xvorg

Minno wrote: »

MrBeatDown_ wrote: »

The current Dk house before and after patch. Been this way for a long time now.

Why need a house if you can Sprint around an enemy?


[img][/img]

mDKs wearing that set can run 10 steps before going OOS...