Why were the class based sustain changes not equal?

aeowulf

I am trying to figure out why the class based sustain changes were not equal. Given each class is roughly as powerful as each other (they aren't but bare with me) why did:

My DK tank get an increase in stamina/magician return from battle roar and an increase in stamina return from helping hands. (My dk tank is a health stacker)
My sorc remain roughly unchanged, although I can only see the extra 0.2 sec cast time helping drain a PVP bashing attacker of his stamina rather than actually being noticeable by me. I don't pvp anymore so not sure on this.
My NB (tank) get decimated in resource return, baring in mind this is already the weaker of the three classes especially in trials.

Silver_Strider

Because ZOS has no idea what the term "balance" means.

Because Wrobel plays a Sorc and was tired of being ganked by NBs.

Because NB is the red headed stepchild that ZOS abuses to vent out frustration about their new crown item not selling as well as they'd hoped.

I have more but my phone's almost dead.

STEVIL

Classes have different skill costs, different levels of sustain snd different kinds of rotations available to them internally so the removal of "lower cost by %" trees have different impacts just like cutting seafood out of the diets in Colorado and Washington have different impacts on their populations.

Rinmaethodain

aeowulf wrote: »

I am trying to figure out why the class based sustain changes were not equal. Given each class is roughly as powerful as each other (they aren't but bare with me) why did:

My DK tank get an increase in stamina/magician return from battle roar and an increase in stamina return from helping hands. (My dk tank is a health stacker)
My sorc remain roughly unchanged, although I can only see the extra 0.2 sec cast time helping drain a PVP bashing attacker of his stamina rather than actually being noticeable by me. I don't pvp anymore so not sure on this.
My NB (tank) get decimated in resource return, baring in mind this is already the weaker of the three classes especially in trials.
[/quote

Uh, Are we reading the same patch notes? Where do you see any mention of "increase in stamina/magicka return fn from battle roar and helping hands"?

For a proper tanking builds they are all nerfs. They are giving a numbers above which this changes are nerfs. For helping hands it was like 19800 which is far below what stam tanks have. For battle roar its a tiny buff for magicka but massive nerf for health and slight nerf to stamina (depending on build).

Not to mention all these changes that turn resource gains into depended on lvl are just runing build diversity, making people stat pools look same, limiting space for creative theorycrafting and optimising resource pools for passives/abilities.

Qbiken

IMO ZoS shouldn´t have touched the class specific stuff when it comes to sustain. The CP changes is ok (don´t like them but will most likely survive them) but the changes to all classes and races was a bit to much.

Or put it this way: If ZOS was to first do their changes to nerf sustain by adjusting CP, and then evaluate how it affected gameplay/sustain etc. If the sustain still was "too good" (whatever that´s supposed to be) THEN they could´ve started to tweak race/class specific skills. But by changing them both at the same time, you can´t evaluate which one was the "source" of the "unlimited sustain" (<----which is a myth btw, no such thing as unlimited sustain, not in PvE or in PvP, just players that have no clue what they´re talking about). Was it the CP, were some classes/race skills to strong?? or whatever.....

I´m not against changes, but I have some issues with the way ZOS carry them out. It´s better to take small "baby steps" (at least it´s much easier to correct a small "bad" change than a huge one) than doing many major ones. I think more people would be more ok with the changes zos makes if they do many but small changes from time to time (and more important let people test them before letting them going live) than doing huge major changes that are to "gamebreaking".

F7sus4

There is no such thing as balance in asymmetric gameplay by definition.

aeowulf

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Uh, Are we reading the same patch notes? Where do you see any mention of "increase in stamina/magicka return fn from battle roar and helping hands"?

aaah you need to click the 'spoiler' button, which is prob why you missed it. Essentially it's right here: (the lines starting 'this will be a buff')

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Dragonknight

• Earthen Heart
  • Battle Roar: This passive ability now restores an equal amount of Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you use an Ultimate ability, and the amounts are now based on your character level instead of your Max Resource(s).
    Developer Comments:
    This will be a buff for each particular resource if your maximum is below 26,000, and a reduction if it is above. This will generally result in a buff to overall resources restored, but a reduction to the specific resource you are stacking.
  • Helping Hands: This passive ability now restores Stamina based on your character level instead of your Max Stamina.
    Developer Comments:
    This will be a buff if your Maximum Stamina is below 19,800 and a reduction if it is above.

I tried to avoid any confusion by specifying my exact build with the phrase 'my dk tank' - he is a shield stacker with a 70k health pool, no stats in to stam or magicka. he is basically unkillable as long as i can withstand the boredom of playing him & he now restores more stamina/magicka from these abilities.