Nightblade is dps class why the worst dps then?

dday3six · May 2017

ParaNostram wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

*eyerolls at the thought of a "DPS class"*

The point of ESO is you can build any class to do any role. Come on. Stop thinking this is a WoW clone

Yes. That should be the point... but in reality we have:
Dragonknight - best Tank
Templar - best healer
Sorcerer - best DPS
Nightblade - best ...... ? Doing thieves guild & dark brotherhood quests ? ? ? NB was supposed to have best "focus" dmg (single target dmg - just like a typical assassin have).

You can have a NB tank, healer or DPS but it will never be as good as other classes in their specific roles.

But soon we will have warden that probably will be best at everything....

Warden feedback is across the board. Some say it's OP some say it's just eh at everything at once, some say it's just right.

Yeah I mean people who don't know how to play to a class's strengths and be unique and creative about their character and just follows whatever build they see on youtube or what the Meta tells them is good, then of course things will always fall into those categories. My Magblade actually does have my best single target DPS and not insignificant AoE DPS. She's also just tricky for me to play.

I really think people underestimate the psychological effect of worshipping the Meta and listening to the priests of the Meta. You already believe that _____ is just better than you at that so that effects how you perform. There have been tests where simply reminding people of a stereotype beforehand can effect performances (a math test on women where one group was reminded of the stereotype of women being supposedly bad at math and thus performed worse as a result as compared to the control group that was told nothing at all).

If you learn your class and master it, you can do anything you want on it. Will there be others that might do it better than you? Sure, nature of competition some people will play better. However, as I have said, I've seen NB healers outheal Templar, I've seen Sorcs tank better than DKs, I've been personally reached out to and asked how I do such high DPS on my Magblade. I never look at the meta, I never take advice from others, I just sit down and look at the class and create something that suits how I play. Enjoying your play style and believing in yourself goes a long way to improving your performance.

What you're talking about is skill gap. Which has little to do with the meta that is formed based on what performs best after the skill gap is closed.

You seem salty that people don't respect your creativity. You'll have to get use to people preferring function over form.

exeeter702 · May 2017

GuyNamedSean wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

*eyerolls at the thought of a "DPS class"*

The point of ESO is you can build any class to do any role. Come on. Stop thinking this is a WoW clone

Yeah, the game is always being balanced for that purpose, but if they really wanted to set it up as something other than DKs as tanks, Sorcs as Magicka DPS, NBs as stamina DPS, and Temps as healer, then they should have made all four classes like the Warden is going to be. One skill tree expressly for tanking, one skill tree expressly for DPS with stamina morphs, and one skill tree expressly for healing.

You can build any class to any role, but it's blatantly apparent that this wasn't the original idea for the game.

How on earth you got 10 agrees is beyond me....

exeeter702 · May 2017

DivyathFyr wrote: »

Im curious stam is much better on other classes so its mag than a nb but a nb is a pure dps class how come its the worst then i dont understand

Your understanding if this games class / role design structure is terribly flawed..

exeeter702 · May 2017

Smmokkee wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

*eyerolls at the thought of a "DPS class"*

The point of ESO is you can build any class to do any role. Come on. Stop thinking this is a WoW clone

Yes. That should be the point... but in reality we have:
Dragonknight - best Tank
Templar - best healer
Sorcerer - best DPS
Nightblade - best ...... ? Doing thieves guild & dark brotherhood quests ? ? ? NB was supposed to have best "focus" dmg (single target dmg - just like a typical assassin have).

You can have a NB tank, healer or DPS but it will never be as good as other classes in their specific roles.

But soon we will have warden that probably will be best at everything....

Warden feedback is across the board. Some say it's OP some say it's just eh at everything at once, some say it's just right.

Yeah I mean people who don't know how to play to a class's strengths and be unique and creative about their character and just follows whatever build they see on youtube or what the Meta tells them is good, then of course things will always fall into those categories. My Magblade actually does have my best single target DPS and not insignificant AoE DPS. She's also just tricky for me to play.

I really think people underestimate the psychological effect of worshipping the Meta and listening to the priests of the Meta. You already believe that _____ is just better than you at that so that effects how you perform. There have been tests where simply reminding people of a stereotype beforehand can effect performances (a math test on women where one group was reminded of the stereotype of women being supposedly bad at math and thus performed worse as a result as compared to the control group that was told nothing at all).

If you learn your class and master it, you can do anything you want on it. Will there be others that might do it better than you? Sure, nature of competition some people will play better. However, as I have said, I've seen NB healers outheal Templar, I've seen Sorcs tank better than DKs, I've been personally reached out to and asked how I do such high DPS on my Magblade. I never look at the meta, I never take advice from others, I just sit down and look at the class and create something that suits how I play. Enjoying your play style and believing in yourself goes a long way to improving your performance.

Jesus, this is completely beside the point.

And I've never seen a nb outheal a templar. You must of seen a potatoplar.

Then you play with bad players. Healing output between a templar and a nb is actually nearly matched currently on live. It's the utility that Templars had control of that placed them in the healer role above the other 3 healers.

exeeter702 · May 2017

KingJ wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

RT_Frank wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Smmokkee wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

*eyerolls at the thought of a "DPS class"*

The point of ESO is you can build any class to do any role. Come on. Stop thinking this is a WoW clone

Are you kidding me?

The problem is mentality and lack of creativity. I've been here since the second wave of beta invites and I can tell you this is the way the game is. Some classes might have an inherent advantage in some roles but that doesn't mean they're a ___ class. I've seen NB healers outperform templar healers, I've been able to successfully offheal on my sorc since the changes to pets. Every class is capable of having solid DPS both stam and mag. Right now stam dk's might be king of the meta but that doesn't mean stamblades can't fill the role, that doesn't mean a solid magblade can't get ridiculous DPS (spoiler, that's what my magblade does)

Seriously? Are you telling me that when you look at a graph, you point to the outliers for results instead of the line of best fit? Just because there are a few exceptions (and the few is emphasized here) to a rule doesn't mean that they define it. I don't even remember the last time I had an non-templar healer and I'm sure most people here can say the same.

Templars have (or used to have) advantages in healing. Sorcs have advantages in dpsing. If someone can't compete with the meta, it doesn't mean that they are not creative it means that they are at a disadvantage. Just because you can overcome that doesn't mean it's fair that the other 90% or so magblades have to work 3x as hard to overcome a disadvantage that sorcs never have.

Templar DPS was the meta last patch (or the one before), not sorc, if I remember correctly. And they will still have the advantages in healing.

Templar wasn't meta they were just acceptable trial group comp were 2 magic dk 2 magplar 4 magic sorc. With the Nerf to RD which wasn't that big lower magplar execute DPS and the increase of Sorc AOE DPS made magplar DPS loss there place and teams to add more magsorc.Only reason teams still use 2 magdk is for VMol most teams us 7 magsorc 1 magdk for the flame damage buff.

The point still stands.. magplars were parsing competitive numbers as were stam dks not to long ago. The majority of people associated these 2 classes as dedicated healers and tanks respectively, yet no one says a damn word when they also perform well in the damage dealer role.

This community would be perfectly content with all 4 classes be it mag or stam produced viable dps number for end game, yet when a non templar healer or non dk tank is even suggested as a reasonable request..... *** forget about it. Its pathetic, ignorant, hilarious and misguided all at the same time.

To the OP....

The NB is not a dedicated damage dealing class.. So such thing exists on a fundamental level in this game. The sooner you realize that the better off you will be. The fact that you did not know any better speaks volumes about ZOS and how they actually educate players and convey their design philosophy. Do not for a second believe that a class is intentionally left gimped in role X because they excel in role Y and/or Z.

waterfairy · May 2017

ParaNostram wrote: »

*eyerolls at the thought of a "DPS class"*

The point of ESO is you can build any class to do any role. Come on. Stop thinking this is a WoW clone

They talked about it but that never really happened in this game and now the new patch is heading in the opposite direction of "play how you want".

Tommy_The_Gun · May 2017

Smmokkee wrote: »

Sometime ago we started getting nerfed and it hasn't stopped. Leading up to this patch some people were expecting a nb buff.. (Lol) instead we took a nerf to one of our class defining skills and now it's useless.

mb10 · May 2017

ParaNostram wrote: »

*eyerolls at the thought of a "DPS class"*

The point of ESO is you can build any class to do any role. Come on. Stop thinking this is a WoW clone

Nightblade is very clearly a damage class, dont lie to yourself.

STEVIL · May 2017

Smmokkee wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Smmokkee wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Smmokkee wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

*eyerolls at the thought of a "DPS class"*

The point of ESO is you can build any class to do any role. Come on. Stop thinking this is a WoW clone

Are you kidding me?

The problem is mentality and lack of creativity. I've been here since the second wave of beta invites and I can tell you this is the way the game is. Some classes might have an inherent advantage in some roles but that doesn't mean they're a ___ class. I've seen NB healers outperform templar healers, I've been able to successfully offheal on my sorc since the changes to pets. Every class is capable of having solid DPS both stam and mag. Right now stam dk's might be king of the meta but that doesn't mean stamblades can't fill the role, that doesn't mean a solid magblade can't get ridiculous DPS (spoiler, that's what my magblade does)

I highly doubt the problem with nightblades is the mentality and lack of creativity. It's rather the fact that we have been getting *** on patch after patch with nothing to compensate. It's take, take, take. You cant sit here and honestly tell me the siphoning strikes nerf was needed or even called for when class skills like dark exchange go untouched. Grim Focus was suppose to get changed and it never did.

If you want to act like everythings fine and, good because you enjoy the game, whatever. But I intend to defend the class I've loved since I started playing this game despite zos wanting me to hate it. Don't forget ZoS said they wanted this to be some kind of useless sneaking class so you're point to build every class to do every role is a little far fetched especially when there is a class out there that can do it all better then you.

Sorry but i must have kissed the part in the post you quoted where anything even close to "everythings fine and good" was even implied must lest stated or acted like.

Can you point it out or does anyone who doesn't agree with your crisis-de-jour just get thrown into that easy-to-not-think-hard box of yours?

Also can you please provide a cite where you can show ZOS saying they wanted NB to be useless or "some kind of useless sneaking class" or is the "useless" just a characterization you are working in there based on your bias as far as "sneaking class" goes?

pretty sure i have seen more than one thread about using Nb to sneak thru chest hunting some of the harder content. So maybe not everyone feels sneaking and useless are synonymous if indeed that reflects your bias and not a direct quote from ZOS.

Please recall, hyperbole is a choice, not a requirement and it is useful as a contrast element rhetorically not as a mainstay core premise/foundation to build an argument on.

His whole post pretty much implies NBs are fine and good. I think you need to re-read this whole thread, lul. He even suggests the problem is the playerbase creativity and mentality. Like.. What?

Last ESO live they said they wanted to make the class more useful through sneaking like in pvp.

First i did not get the implication you conjured.

Second, zos sayingbthey wsnted to give more sneskety pksy does not mean its useless as is or useless without sneak so... does serm like you inserted your views into zos words, maybe like you did with your creative spotting of the hidden implication.

Bet you kill at wheres waldo.

"There he is."
"No thats a plant"
"No really its waldo, i just know it."

exeeter702 · May 2017

mb10 wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

*eyerolls at the thought of a "DPS class"*

The point of ESO is you can build any class to do any role. Come on. Stop thinking this is a WoW clone

Nightblade is very clearly a damage class, dont lie to yourself.

Clearly, that's why they have a completely selfless aoe ultimate heal and the only form of major vitality to a group in the game. 2 Aoe heals and 1 smart casted hot which ticks for more that Rapid or mutagen. Passives that directly increase outgoing heal potency. And the single most strongest self exclusive mitigation buff in the game.

Interesting to note, the templar contains just as many damage skills and passives in relation to damage that a nightblade has. So please explain to me how strictly from a desgin stand point, a NB is "very clearly" a damage class whereas a templar is not?. It is only a damage class in that it's innate healing capabilities are tied to damage. And it's tanking tools come from the same philosophy as all the other tank tools from the other classes. Every class has the built in right to produce a damage dealing setup, a tanking setup and a Healing setup. This has nothing to do with wether or not said class/role combo is over or under tuned but really that each class in some way is provided the tools for each role period.

hmsdragonfly · May 2017

KingJ wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

RT_Frank wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Smmokkee wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

*eyerolls at the thought of a "DPS class"*

The point of ESO is you can build any class to do any role. Come on. Stop thinking this is a WoW clone

Are you kidding me?

The problem is mentality and lack of creativity. I've been here since the second wave of beta invites and I can tell you this is the way the game is. Some classes might have an inherent advantage in some roles but that doesn't mean they're a ___ class. I've seen NB healers outperform templar healers, I've been able to successfully offheal on my sorc since the changes to pets. Every class is capable of having solid DPS both stam and mag. Right now stam dk's might be king of the meta but that doesn't mean stamblades can't fill the role, that doesn't mean a solid magblade can't get ridiculous DPS (spoiler, that's what my magblade does)

Seriously? Are you telling me that when you look at a graph, you point to the outliers for results instead of the line of best fit? Just because there are a few exceptions (and the few is emphasized here) to a rule doesn't mean that they define it. I don't even remember the last time I had an non-templar healer and I'm sure most people here can say the same.

Templars have (or used to have) advantages in healing. Sorcs have advantages in dpsing. If someone can't compete with the meta, it doesn't mean that they are not creative it means that they are at a disadvantage. Just because you can overcome that doesn't mean it's fair that the other 90% or so magblades have to work 3x as hard to overcome a disadvantage that sorcs never have.

Templar DPS was the meta last patch (or the one before), not sorc, if I remember correctly. And they will still have the advantages in healing.

Templar wasn't meta they were just acceptable trial group comp were 2 magic dk 2 magplar 4 magic sorc. With the Nerf to RD which wasn't that big lower magplar execute DPS and the increase of Sorc AOE DPS made magplar DPS loss there place and teams to add more magsorc.Only reason teams still use 2 magdk is for VMol most teams us 7 magsorc 1 magdk for the flame damage buff.

The reason groups still use magdks because they have more single target DPS than sorcs, not just the flame damage buff.

Before the buff to sorc, templar was meta. Acceptable? At the moment Templar DDs are acceptable, they are like 1k DPS behind non-pet sorc.

hmsdragonfly · May 2017

mb10 wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

*eyerolls at the thought of a "DPS class"*

The point of ESO is you can build any class to do any role. Come on. Stop thinking this is a WoW clone

Nightblade is very clearly a damage class, dont lie to yourself.

There's no such thing as a damage class, or a tank class in ESO. DKs pull more single target DPS than sorcs, guess they are a damage class then?

Vaoh · May 2017

Magicka Nightblade is the worst DPS?

No no lol.

Meet the Magicka Warden

WildWilbur · May 2017

Dude, NBs ain't no dps class. NBs are *drumroll* A MOBILE CLASS!!! *standing ovations as Wrobel slowly starts to blush*

Dracindo · May 2017

A nightblade passive that increases a NB's overall damage output to enemies below a certain % of health would be nice.

Kay1 · May 2017

Because SypherPK builds

Fingolfinn01 · May 2017

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

*eyerolls at the thought of a "DPS class"*

The point of ESO is you can build any class to do any role. Come on. Stop thinking this is a WoW clone

Yes. That should be the point... but in reality we have:
Dragonknight - best Tank
Templar - best healer
Sorcerer - best DPS
Nightblade - best ...... ? Doing thieves guild & dark brotherhood quests ? ? ? NB was supposed to have best "focus" dmg (single target dmg - just like a typical assassin have).

You can have a NB tank, healer or DPS but it will never be as good as other classes in their specific roles.

But soon we will have warden that probably will be best at everything....

true I rolled a night blade just to be a thief and assassin. I hope they improve things for this class. Its a shame they are relegated to quest content. Though I don't doubt there are players extremely skilful that make it work. However I play from the east coast of Oz, its going to be hard to make it work unless they make it ranged.

F7sus4 · May 2017

ParaNostram wrote: »

Smmokkee wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

*eyerolls at the thought of a "DPS class"*

The point of ESO is you can build any class to do any role. Come on. Stop thinking this is a WoW clone

Are you kidding me?

The problem is mentality and lack of creativity.

And the lack of understanding of the endgame environment. "Any class any role" is one of the biggest bullskit-lies that were ever told to people.

KingJ · May 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

RT_Frank wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Smmokkee wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

*eyerolls at the thought of a "DPS class"*

The point of ESO is you can build any class to do any role. Come on. Stop thinking this is a WoW clone

Are you kidding me?

The problem is mentality and lack of creativity. I've been here since the second wave of beta invites and I can tell you this is the way the game is. Some classes might have an inherent advantage in some roles but that doesn't mean they're a ___ class. I've seen NB healers outperform templar healers, I've been able to successfully offheal on my sorc since the changes to pets. Every class is capable of having solid DPS both stam and mag. Right now stam dk's might be king of the meta but that doesn't mean stamblades can't fill the role, that doesn't mean a solid magblade can't get ridiculous DPS (spoiler, that's what my magblade does)

Seriously? Are you telling me that when you look at a graph, you point to the outliers for results instead of the line of best fit? Just because there are a few exceptions (and the few is emphasized here) to a rule doesn't mean that they define it. I don't even remember the last time I had an non-templar healer and I'm sure most people here can say the same.

Templars have (or used to have) advantages in healing. Sorcs have advantages in dpsing. If someone can't compete with the meta, it doesn't mean that they are not creative it means that they are at a disadvantage. Just because you can overcome that doesn't mean it's fair that the other 90% or so magblades have to work 3x as hard to overcome a disadvantage that sorcs never have.

Templar DPS was the meta last patch (or the one before), not sorc, if I remember correctly. And they will still have the advantages in healing.

Templar wasn't meta they were just acceptable trial group comp were 2 magic dk 2 magplar 4 magic sorc. With the Nerf to RD which wasn't that big lower magplar execute DPS and the increase of Sorc AOE DPS made magplar DPS loss there place and teams to add more magsorc.Only reason teams still use 2 magdk is for VMol most teams us 7 magsorc 1 magdk for the flame damage buff.

The reason groups still use magdks because they have more single target DPS than sorcs, not just the flame damage buff.

Before the buff to sorc, templar was meta. Acceptable? At the moment Templar DDs are acceptable, they are like 1k DPS behind non-pet sorc.

If that was the case Raid groups would run more than 1 magdk,at the very least 2-3. Hint they don't we only use one for a reason.The damage buff.

Majority of trials are Add pulls and majority of bosses have adds. Its why cleave damage is so important. There only a handful of bosses that do not have adds. Manticore ,Top boss of VHRC.Storm atro VAA and the serpent .4 Bosses that are mainly single target.On those 4 targets its matter but for the rest Cleave is important and why groups run 7 sorc.

There acceptable but score groups do not run them they run 7 sorc 1 magdk.

technohic · May 2017

These threads always trail off into the weeds. This one turned into what NBs are or are not as far as roles and why DKs get invited to raids. The simple fact of the matter is NBs are sub-par at everything except ganking stamblades and have been before this next patch. All thats changing there is ganking will be a bit less effective.

jlboozer · May 2017

I've always thought of them more of a sneak class than purely DPS. What other class can bar invisibility, you can't have invis and the highest DPS.

DivyathFyr · May 2017

For strictly PVP stam NB or stam DK for Battleground? Is better?

xeNNNNN · May 2017

ParaNostram wrote: »

*eyerolls at the thought of a "DPS class"*

The point of ESO is you can build any class to do any role. Come on. Stop thinking this is a WoW clone

Then please explain why nearly every other class is getting rail roaded except sorc?

ZoS knows a majority of tanks are DK's and a lot of DD's are DKs. Rare are the DK healers.
ZoS knows most NB's build damage because they dont really have much else anymore.
ZoS knows most templars spec for damage or heal.
ZoS knows Sorc is the disgusting result of their inability to not cave to crying sorc players when they get nerfed. I.e The curse changes. Sorc will be the only class that can do everything when morrowind goes live.

Seriously, I would Agree with you if the game was not in the state it is. Right now its not useful at all to run a sap tank or a NB healer anymore. Hybrids have mixed results and thats only in PvP. BiS Dominates not just gear but class and race.

So Please explain to us again how "you can build any class to do any role" because as soon as morrowind comes along yeah. The chances of NB's being even remotely useful outside of PvP is going to be 0%. THE only way they would be useful aswell is if they used the new trial sets and became buff *** like healers and tanks are currently and thats just sad.

You want your statement to be true? roll back "some" of the nerfs NB's have had. It might of been the point of ESO a while ago but not as it stands now.

Kodrac · May 2017

Smmokkee wrote: »

He even suggests the problem is the playerbase creativity and mentality. Like.. What?

Have you used group finder at all? There's definitely a problem with the playerbase's mentality.

Phatmattfu · May 2017

NB is the one class I can't bear to level.

I think the passives need some major love, they are pretty convoluted and not very good for dps from a #'s perspective.

As has been mentioned, they seem to be designed to complete your thieves and DB dailies, and maybe the occasional gank in pvp.

Violynne · May 2017

ParaNostram wrote: »

The point of ESO is you can build any class to do any role.

Sure, you can build any class for any role.

Still doesn't mean you should if the intent is actually enjoying it.

Galwylin · May 2017

About sneak and hide, I may be mistaken but all you give up is some cost (I think... no I'm sure...uh, little help). Which means you can slap some medium on any other class (and level it up) and be as good as the nightblade. Just more costly. Also lose the stun from attacking from sneak but you don't get that every time. They'll probably get rid of it all together since the stun is what people being ganked hate. So, the one thing a nightblade supposedly does better than anyone is watered down. It is better to take a dragonknight for the blocking, sorcerers for the damage or templay for the healer because a nightblade excels at nothing. Is it better at taking? No. Better at damage? No. Better at healing? No.

But just my opinion. I hope those that keep on with the song and dance of how nightblades are so good keep enjoying the nerfs. And may you have many more because it just doesn't sound like you have enough challenge

exeeter702 · May 2017

xeNNNNN wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

*eyerolls at the thought of a "DPS class"*

The point of ESO is you can build any class to do any role. Come on. Stop thinking this is a WoW clone

Then please explain why nearly every other class is getting rail roaded except sorc?

ZoS knows a majority of tanks are DK's and a lot of DD's are DKs. Rare are the DK healers.
ZoS knows most NB's build damage because they dont really have much else anymore.
ZoS knows most templars spec for damage or heal.
ZoS knows Sorc is the disgusting result of their inability to not cave to crying sorc players when they get nerfed. I.e The curse changes. Sorc will be the only class that can do everything when morrowind goes live.

Seriously, I would Agree with you if the game was not in the state it is. Right now its not useful at all to run a sap tank or a NB healer anymore. Hybrids have mixed results and thats only in PvP. BiS Dominates not just gear but class and race.

So Please explain to us again how "you can build any class to do any role" because as soon as morrowind comes along yeah. The chances of NB's being even remotely useful outside of PvP is going to be 0%. THE only way they would be useful aswell is if they used the new trial sets and became buff *** like healers and tanks are currently and thats just sad.

You want your statement to be true? roll back "some" of the nerfs NB's have had. It might of been the point of ESO a while ago but not as it stands now.

First of all a NB tank or Healer is not a hybrid.

Secondly, currently in the beta, NB healers and DK healers are performing on par with templar healers in both outgoing heals and utility. That is not an opinion.

DjMuscleboy02 · May 2017

ParaNostram wrote: »

*eyerolls at the thought of a "DPS class"*

The point of ESO is you can build any class to do any role. Come on. Stop thinking this is a WoW clone

Magblades are good for like solo overworld and vma. Literal garbage for trials on live, few to no passives that help and the damage is bad as well. Thought they'd be solid next patch until I saw the nerf to siphoning, but hey at least they're not dead last anymore!

jpeg · May 2017

stealth dps is best