Are these changes going to make it easier for casual players to transition to Vet Content?

HugeMuffin

Poll time. I constantly hear about "raising the floor" and "lowering the ceiling", I.E. making it so that a casual player is not significantly worse off than an expert player who is on their game. However, as a casual player, I feel like the on-ramp to vet content is being closed off. As I run around PTS, the base content is only more challenging if the fight drags on for longer than 20 seconds, but I feel that the non-vet content is a walled garden that I won't escape from. Some people say that there was power creep, but others saw it as a wave that was carrying players ahead.

So I'm putting up a poll to quantify what impact the recent PTS changes will have on casual progression.

I'm sure the devs would appreciate specific examples and stories if you have them.

Edziu

PTS Changes create a significant barrier to entering veteran level content for casual players

those changes as I see now on pts are creating more difficult simple veteran conter....this basic vet content like dung etc...will be much harder for casuals than now because they wont be able to use more often skills like now and they will be less efficient in dung because they dont know that much like experienced player who will know what he need to do to keep his dps while its siginificant lower....for casual player who is not experienced everything will be much harder than now because of nerf mostly to sustain about what he has no idea

Rohamad_Ali

PTS Changes create a significant barrier to entering veteran level content for casual players

100%

Gilvoth

PTS Changes make no difference on casual players chances of moving to end game or veteran content

eso needs to be rebuilt. the only thing that should remain is the ground.
all houses trees npc's, the stories, the maps, the skills weapons armor clothing mounts ... everything just delete and start over.
it is the truth.
i'm sorry.

KingJ

PTS Changes create a significant barrier to entering veteran level content for casual players

In my honest opinion if you can't complete the content now you won't be able to next patch.Save your money and dont buy the expansion.

TheFall3nAngel

PTS Changes create a significant barrier to entering veteran level content for casual players

It's the casual players who can juuuust barely clear content now that are going to get hit hardest with the PTS changes. The best players are going to stay the best. Casual players who couldn't clear content before still aren't going to clear after the patch. But the players and casual guilds who can just scrape their vSO HM or vMOL clears now are going to be hurt the most because they won't be able to clear anymore after the patch hits.

Silver_Strider

IDK if it'll be harder or not because usually it's the player that's heavy attack bow spamming in Vet Dungeons that is currently holding the team back on live.

Now, everyone will be heavy attacking just like them just to get by.

ofSunhold

PTS Changes create a significant barrier to entering veteran level content for casual players

God no.

greylox

PTS Changes create a significant barrier to entering veteran level content for casual players

It's obviously going to be much harder in all ways unless they make content easier (which they won't).

Eweroun

PTS Changes create a significant barrier to entering veteran level content for casual players

It's going to be harder, 'cause of the sustain.
The game didn't become harder, but you'll have to learn to adapt to the new sustain changes

MyKillv2.0

PTS Changes make no difference on casual players chances of moving to end game or veteran content

People need to stop over reacting....The good players will learn to adapt. They always have. The rest will still not figure it out but most do not resize they haven't figured it out. That's life for this patch, all the others that have preceded and all others to follow.

The ones I really feel sorry for are the PC macro players. They won't be able to post YouTube videos on how great they are, maybe that's why some are leaving and joining "Ashes"

Yes, that's sarcasm

Sydria

PTS Changes create a significant barrier to entering veteran level content for casual players

"Raising the floor" and "lowering the ceiling" are the two things they are going for which is a good thing in my opinion.

BUT it seems they are only "lowering the ceiling" with the current PTS changes. The floor is not raised, quite the opposite: the floor is nerfed just as much as the ceiling if not more.

I do welcome the sustain changes so that resources might be important again. But we need a counterbalance so the floor does not suffer that much.

---

Problem shown in numbers:
Minimum DPS number to participate in most content: 20k DPS

Live Server
Ceiling DPS Player: 50k DPS
Floor DPS Player: 20k DPS

PTS Server
Ceiling DPS Player: 30k DPS
Floor DPS Player: 10k DPS

Goal
Ceiling DPS Player: 30k DPS
Floor DPS Player: 20k DPS

As you can see the floor player that could still participate in the content before is not able to do so anymore.
The ceiling player also suffers but can still participate without a problem.

The goal would be to cap/reduce the ceiling to similar numbers they are getting on PTS right now but hold that 20k DPS for floor players.

---

Possible ways to raise the floor: (PVE Perspective)
- Remove Animation Canceling or reduce it's effect:
Animation Canceling is not very intuitive for new players and also makes the combat animations look silly and distorted.
Everyone that refers to it as "player skill" is not completely wrong, but ESO is not a rhythm game and players with a bad latency and FPS suffer from this more than they should.
It also turns away older or disabled players that can compete in casual content of other MMOs just fine.
- Balance all Sets:
There will always be best in slot sets, but the current differences between sets are simply to high. This renders almost all sets except 3 or 4 per role useless. Floor players are punished for picking up the wrong ones and can't farm new ones that fast.
- Balance Weapons:
While it's OK for some weapon combinations to be BIS there should not be only one acceptable weapon combination e.g. DW/Bow right now for Stamina Players. All combinations that make sense should be able to compete. (e.g. DW/DW, Bow/2h, Bow/Bow etc)
- Balance Races:
Races should grant small bonuses but a floor player should not be rendered useless because they picked the wrong race e.g. Khajiit for a Magicka DD.
- Balance Magicka VS Stamina DD:
They can play differently but in the end they should be able to perform the same.

My main characters are all healers and tanks but I got some DD Twinks, so from the DD perspective I am still a floor player and can relate to both sides.

theamazingx

PTS Changes make no difference on casual players chances of moving to end game or veteran content

tinbromide wrote: »

Poll time. I constantly hear about "raising the floor" and "lowering the ceiling", I.E. making it so that a casual player is not significantly worse off than an expert player who is on their game. However, as a casual player, I feel like the on-ramp to vet content is being closed off. As I run around PTS, the base content is only more challenging if the fight drags on for longer than 20 seconds, but I feel that the non-vet content is a walled garden that I won't escape from. Some people say that there was power creep, but others saw it as a wave that was carrying players ahead.

So I'm putting up a poll to quantify what impact the recent PTS changes will have on casual progression.

I'm sure the devs would appreciate specific examples and stories if you have them.

The wording is very important here. Are you asking about the ability for a casual player to transition to an endgame raider? If so, no, little will change in that respect. The same gear progression will exist. Endgame builds and trial strats will be thrown out of wack for a while, so the barrier for entry in that respect will likely be even lower than it is now.

If you're just asking about a change in casual players' ability to complete content with "veteran" in the title, sure, things are going to be generally harder to complete.

Uriel_Nocturne

PTS Changes create a significant barrier to entering veteran level content for casual players

No.

The changes ZOS is making to the game will make completing Vet content a nigh impossibility for new players and players who haven't completed it yet.

Players who have completed it and have been grinding out the BiS gear in the game, should still be able to do it, and only because of that BiS gear and near-perfect timing on all of their Skill/Abilities.

(though it's only fair to note that even Vet-Content-players are having doubts about their ability to complete the content after the changes even with that BiS gear)

Players who have not been able to complete it and grind out that BiS gear, are going to find these challenges impossible to complete.

Their changes go completely against their stated goal of "raising the floor, lowering the ceiling, and making all content easier to complete for new/casual players.

Their planned changes are abhorrent, and will be a massive strike against players of all caliber in ESO.

crobarXIII

PTS Changes create a significant barrier to entering veteran level content for casual players

Using the dungeon finder to tank for random pugs. I have seen it all, sorc's that just keep hard casting frags, stamblades that just spam flurry, dk's spamming wb, stamplars that spam pierce armor & keep stealing my taunt, templars healers that just keep heavy attacking & only use bol when their own heatlh gets low. I can tell you from witnessing these types of players that they too run out of resources (except maybe the heavy attacking templar lol). These changes are greatly going to affect these types of players that don't understand the mechanics of the game.

spiiros

Their heart is in the right place, their execution is going to make the gap even larger, unfortunately. So, no.

theamazingx

PTS Changes make no difference on casual players chances of moving to end game or veteran content

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

No.

The changes ZOS is making to the game will make completing Vet content a nigh impossibility for new players and players who haven't completed it yet.

Players who have completed it and have been grinding out the BiS gear in the game, should still be able to do it, and only because of that BiS gear and near-perfect timing on all of their Skill/Abilities.

(though it's only fair to note that even Vet-Content-players are having doubts about their ability to complete the content after the changes even with that BiS gear)

Players who have not been able to complete it and grind out that BiS gear, are going to find these challenges impossible to complete.

Their changes go completely against their stated goal of "raising the floor, lowering the ceiling, and making all content easier to complete for new/casual players.

Their planned changes are abhorrent, and will be a massive strike against players of all caliber in ESO.

Do you not recognize that anyone who wants to move on to vet content has the ability to do so? This isn't a game where you have to do vet content to get the gear you need to do vet content. There's no wall as you're implying. With the sole exception of maelstrom weapons, the best gear in the game can be farmed by your average zone pug (nCoA, nMoL, normal craglorn trials). The biggest grind is undaunted keys for good monster pieces, but thats not a skill barrier, it's just as time consuming for anyone.

If your issue is that very casual players who want to stay casual won't be able to complete "vet" content, there's not much fo be said for that. Anyone who just wants to enjoy the sights and fights of Tamriel still have normal content quite accessible to them, and anyone who want to challenge themselves will still have the same opportunity to do so.

Elsonso

PTS Changes make no difference on casual players chances of moving to end game or veteran content

Until they nerf Veteran content into the ground, or add normal content to provide a bridge to that content, this update changes nothing.

Bowser

PTS Changes make no difference on casual players chances of moving to end game or veteran content

Durham

PTS Changes create a significant barrier to entering veteran level content for casual players

Again why would a company do something that it's customers DO NOT want... Streamers even people that I know that always support this games direction are just bewildered by the actions of late....

ThePonzzz

Bowser wrote: »

I always adapat.

HugeMuffin

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Bowser wrote: »

I always adapat.

That's my secret captain, I'm always adapating.

Elsonso

PTS Changes make no difference on casual players chances of moving to end game or veteran content

Durham wrote: »

Again why would a company do something that it's customers DO NOT want... Streamers even people that I know that always support this games direction are just bewildered by the actions of late....

That is just it, as near as I can tell, ZOS is making changes that should be acceptable to the broader customer base, and hopefully make the game a little less easy-mode. That should make the game more interesting for players. I honestly think that most players will only hate this update if they are told to hate it.

ThePonzzz

tinbromide wrote: »

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Bowser wrote: »

I always adapat.

That's my secret captain, I'm always adapating.

Hey now, watch where you adapat, pal!!

rustic_potato

PTS Changes make no difference on casual players chances of moving to end game or veteran content

People who want to play the game will find ways to adapt and improve.

Haters gonna hate. Potatoes gonna potate.

VinyParsley2016

PTS Changes create a significant barrier to entering veteran level content for casual players

Kick all lowbies and noobs from vet dungeon!