Idea for Vigor/Forward Momentum

Avran_Sylt

So, the general concept is to take vigor, make it self instant heal rather than a AoE HoT. Reduce the cost and reduce the amount healed though.

then, the echoing vigor morph, make that an AoE instant heal.

Reasoning: A good reason that mages have an edge against stamina in prolonged fights is that when they see an incoming powerful attack they can mitigate a large amount of that with a shield, or they have the option of blocking/rolldodge. stamina can only block/rolldodge as stacked HoTs are less reliable than an instant cast 7K buffer, which allows them to be killed fairly easily when burst. So giving stam an instant HP boost I think would be beneficial.


Then, for Resolving Vigor, rather than increasing the heal, have it remove snares and grant brief immunity.
Then, for Forward Momentum, remove the snare removal and brief immunity. Instead have it grant minor expedition for the duration.


The reasoning: DW and 1HSB have no reliable built in way to remove snares/ grant snare immunity built into the class line. So, rather than having that fantastic PvP buff placed into one of the weapon skill lines (meaning that weapon would be greatly preferred in offensive PvP), have it placed in a skill line that is PvP focused. That way DW and 1HSB can have access to it without having to use the medium armor skill or backbarring a 2H.

thoughts?

IwakuraLain42

Removing the HoT from the skill would pretty much make it useless in solo PvE environments like vMSA where you need to have a HoT up to be able to approach enemies that are actively attacking you.

Avran_Sylt

@IwakuraLain42
Potion of lingering health
Troll King
Momentum

Those guys got your back.

Avran_Sylt

@IwakuraLain42
Also the snare removal would be great on the 3rd stage of vMA with the stranglers applying the snare on you if you're unaware.

IwakuraLain42

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@IwakuraLain42
Potion of lingering health

Lasts 10 sec with a cooldown of 45 sec, was nerfed due to be overpowered in PvP ....

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Troll King

Running 5*TFS and 5*VO would require the use of TFS/VO daggers (assuming you don't have the MSA daggers). These are virtually unobtainable, the drop rate is simply atrocious.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Momentum

Virtually all PvE players are using DW, not 2H due to the dps loss.

FlyLionel

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@IwakuraLain42
Also the snare removal would be great on the 3rd stage of vMA with the stranglers applying the snare on you if you're unaware.

You can one shot the stranglers if you're unaware, and VMA is a dps test; I've never seen anyone use Troll King in VMA. When Morrowind comes no one will use lingering health potions due to the sustain changes. Stamina in pvp already dominates; giving them an instant cast heal like BOL is not needed. If they were going to change vigor it would be reducing the cost to resolving and just making it a self heal HOT. Cool ideas though; but who would use momentum for minor expedition over rally?

Avran_Sylt

@IwakuraLain42
Was that changed in the most recent PTS? cause on live it's still 45 sec of ~868 hp per sec.
The Major Vitality bonus was nerfed to 12 sec though, if that's what you mean.

Instead of TFS or VO, you can use a crafted set which makes getting the needed weps a hell of a lot easier. you don't need the optimal BiS gear to run vMA. I ran it with torug's pact, infused weps, troll king, and Vipers. My hp sustain was so real with Rend, blood craze, essence of lingering hp, momentum, that I barely ever had to even use vigor and I could let those spinning blades hit me all day.

And backbar a 2H and DW frontbar, that snare removal is great for stage 3 (on live).

Avran_Sylt

@FlyLionel
No, it is not a dps test. It's only a dps test if you're running for top score. it can easily be done with other methods. you just have to learn the mechanics.

Well, the first boss is a dps test, i retract my statement. So is the 4th arena boss, cause if you can't kill those adds you're dead. I guess it's the same with the 8th arena boss as well, those rune stones should be killed before anything after the flameshooter guys spawns.

Izaki

Suggests a completely stupid suggestion of making Vigor an instant heal > tells everyone to use Lingering Health pots.
3.5k hp ticks > 800 hp ticks
WTF?

Izaki

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@FlyLionel
No, it is not a dps test. It's only a dps test if you're running for top score. it can easily be done with other methods. you just have to learn the mechanics.

Well, the first boss is a dps test, i retract my statement. So is the 4th arena boss, cause if you can't kill those adds you're dead. I guess it's the same with the 8th arena boss as well, those rune stones should be killed before anything after the flameshooter guys spawns.

You haven't done vMA that much, have you? Who kills adds when going for a score? The point of the arena is to go for a score. That's why there's a leaderboard attached to it.

Avran_Sylt

@IzakiBrotherSs

Nope, don't do vMA much. doesn't quite interest me, just went in and got the daggers. I wasn't doing it for score. hint hint, there are other reasons to run vMA.

Avran_Sylt

@IzakiBrotherSs

Also, I'm not disputing that 3.5K ticks are better than 800 some. buuut, 7K shields are better than 3.5K ticks come instant damage.

Izaki

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@IzakiBrotherSs

Also, I'm not disputing that 3.5K ticks are better than 800 some. buuut, 7K shields are better than 3.5K ticks come instant damage.

7k shields are not better than 3.5k ticks every second. Roll Dodge + Vigor = 0 damage taken + full health

Avran_Sylt

@IzakiBrotherSs

Soooo.... why add in vigor if you're gonna roll dodge the damage? That's just wasted stamina.

If you're going to get hit, shields are better.

.......Whiiiiiiich is playstyle diversity.... godamnit.

Izaki

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@IzakiBrotherSs

Soooo.... why add in vigor if you're gonna roll dodge the damage? That's just wasted stamina.

If you're going to get hit, shields are better.

.......Whiiiiiiich is playstyle diversity.... godamnit.

Yeah... If you have 4 people on you each doing 4k DPS (in PvP that's basically Surprise Attack or Force Pulse spam) you're going to be shielding up all the time. But if you roll dodge you avoid all the damage and don't even have to heal.
Roll dodge is the most powerful defense in the game.

FlyLionel

Look; stamina can dodge roll/block more consistent than a magicka toon; hot vigor plays into those things in dire situations. You don't have to go for leaderboard scores for VMA as well; you could be just farming for a couple weapons. An instant cast burst heal is not going to happen at least from what I can see, the most is the wardens stamina heal in the cone I believe.