The Warden and it's Stamina Morphs

flipeled

Since some content creators were allowed to show the class for us, I would like to say one thing:
The class seems to be lacking some stamina morphs.
As I usually play a damage-dealer type of character, that's what I'll be talking about.



Let's take a look at it's skills:


Animal Companions:

1) Dive - While this is an awesome skill, in my opinion, the magicka morph is miles ahead of the stamina one. It need some other special effect to it other than just scaling off of your physical damage.

2) Scorch - This ability is great. It has a nice effect to it's stamina morph (Major Breach and Major Fracture) and good damage. I like it.

3) Swarm - In my opinion, this is one of the two abilities that needs to have a stamina morph, badly, to make the class good overall. It's a long-ranged damage-over-time ability that I would say is essential for a damage-dealer build, but only have magicka morphs.

4) Betty Netch - Although this ability restores a very little ammount of stamina overall, it's ok because it's a free ability. No complaints here.

5) Falcon's Swiftness - I think this is the other ability of the two that needs to have a stamina morph to make the class good. I really think Bird of Prey should have a stamina cost instead of a magicka one. I mean, the ability is already target to stamina builds with it's stamina recovery effect. It would be a nice touch to the class overall.

stevepdodson_ESO888

further to this, I feel the Warden is lacking a melee skill...sure you can get up close and personal and spam your Cliff Racer, but it needs something else, otherwise as a Stam Warden you are back to the old Bow/DW PvE-build like every other stam class

Sugaroverdose

flipeled wrote: »

Since some content creators were allowed to show the class for us, I would like to say one thing:
The class seems to be lacking some stamina morphs.
As I usually play a damage-dealer type of character, that's what I'll be talking about.



Let's take a look at it's skills:


Animal Companions:

1) Dive - While this is an awesome skill, in my opinion, the magicka morph is miles ahead of the stamina one. It need some other special effect to it other than just scaling off of your physical damage.

2) Scorch - This ability is great. It has a nice effect to it's stamina morph (Major Breach and Major Fracture) and good damage. I like it.

3) Swarm - In my opinion, this is one of the two abilities that needs to have a stamina morph, badly, to make the class good overall. It's a long-ranged damage-over-time ability that I would say is essential for a damage-dealer build, but only have magicka morphs.

4) Betty Netch - Although this ability restores a very little ammount of stamina overall, it's ok because it's a free ability. No complaints here.

5) Falcon's Swiftness - I think this is the other ability of the two that needs to have a stamina morph to make the class good. I really think Bird of Prey should have a stamina cost instead of a magicka one. I mean, the ability is already target to stamina builds with it's stamina recovery effect. It would be a nice touch to the class overall.

And how stamina should create magic stuff? If warden magicka skill line will not have any superiority over stamina (who already have not that bad amount of abilities even without class-one) who the hell will play it?

FlyLionel

I disagree about falcons swiftness, think of it like how relentless focus use to be costing magicka but boosting stam regen+minor berserk and all of that. Power Surge/Siphoning strikes/extended ritual, stamina users benefit from having magicka dumps like cloak/igneous. What magicka utility ability will the Warden use in PVP? Falcon's looks absolutely amazing (major expedition=no need for bow). Opens up a lot of cool builds, sustain will be harder now so it is a good thing. Dive should stay the same; stam will forever have higher burst plus that's something you cannot dodge(I heard it has a higher tool tip than surprise attack..). Everything else I agree with, having a swam stamina morph would spice things up for stamwarden in PVE as a DPS instead of having to always use that DW dot(Rending slash I believe). Scorch looks amazing in trash fights, and AOE debuff for mag/stam woo..

Stamden

I agree completely. At the very least, they really need to add some effects on the stam morphs for Dive and Feral Guardian. Though I would also really like to see a stam morph for Swarm too as that would make bow builds way more viable.

DeadlyRecluse

flipeled wrote: »

5) Falcon's Swiftness - I think this is the other ability of the two that needs to have a stamina morph to make the class good. I really think Bird of Prey should have a stamina cost instead of a magicka one. I mean, the ability is already target to stamina builds with it's stamina recovery effect. It would be a nice touch to the class overall.

This skill would be kinda worse if it cost stamina (for stamina builds). As it is, it's a great off-resource dump.

flipeled

Thanks for the response, guys.

Thinking about it now, Falcon's Swiftness is great the way it is, costing magicka. My only real problem is with the Swarm ability and the lack of a stamina morph to it.

Alp

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

flipeled wrote: »

5) Falcon's Swiftness - I think this is the other ability of the two that needs to have a stamina morph to make the class good. I really think Bird of Prey should have a stamina cost instead of a magicka one. I mean, the ability is already target to stamina builds with it's stamina recovery effect. It would be a nice touch to the class overall.

This skill would be kinda worse if it cost stamina (for stamina builds). As it is, it's a great off-resource dump.

Welcome to how all the nightblades stamina regen abilities work. Wardens are unique in that their regen ability costs makes sense.

FlyLionel

Alp wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

flipeled wrote: »

5) Falcon's Swiftness - I think this is the other ability of the two that needs to have a stamina morph to make the class good. I really think Bird of Prey should have a stamina cost instead of a magicka one. I mean, the ability is already target to stamina builds with it's stamina recovery effect. It would be a nice touch to the class overall.

This skill would be kinda worse if it cost stamina (for stamina builds). As it is, it's a great off-resource dump.

Welcome to how all the nightblades stamina regen abilities work. Wardens are unique in that their regen ability costs makes sense.

Lol slowly thinking about it how they all use to cost magicka...they slowly crept up and made them stamina. Toothpick nerfs at it's best. They were going to make leeching give a flat sum of stamina at the end of the duration though, like betty netch which is good.

Alp

FlyLionel wrote: »

Alp wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

flipeled wrote: »

5) Falcon's Swiftness - I think this is the other ability of the two that needs to have a stamina morph to make the class good. I really think Bird of Prey should have a stamina cost instead of a magicka one. I mean, the ability is already target to stamina builds with it's stamina recovery effect. It would be a nice touch to the class overall.

This skill would be kinda worse if it cost stamina (for stamina builds). As it is, it's a great off-resource dump.

Welcome to how all the nightblades stamina regen abilities work. Wardens are unique in that their regen ability costs makes sense.

Lol slowly thinking about it how they all use to cost magicka...they slowly crept up and made them stamina. Toothpick nerfs at it's best. They were going to make leeching give a flat sum of stamina at the end of the duration though, like betty netch which is good.

A betty netch that costs stamina to get stamina instead of being free though.

FlyLionel

Alp wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

Alp wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

flipeled wrote: »

5) Falcon's Swiftness - I think this is the other ability of the two that needs to have a stamina morph to make the class good. I really think Bird of Prey should have a stamina cost instead of a magicka one. I mean, the ability is already target to stamina builds with it's stamina recovery effect. It would be a nice touch to the class overall.

This skill would be kinda worse if it cost stamina (for stamina builds). As it is, it's a great off-resource dump.

Welcome to how all the nightblades stamina regen abilities work. Wardens are unique in that their regen ability costs makes sense.

Lol slowly thinking about it how they all use to cost magicka...they slowly crept up and made them stamina. Toothpick nerfs at it's best. They were going to make leeching give a flat sum of stamina at the end of the duration though, like betty netch which is good.

A betty netch that costs stamina to get stamina instead of being free though.

$$$

Alp

I just wish they would apply the same logic to all classes as they do with the wardens stamina regen abilities. Give me something to use my magicka for.

Dracane

Stamina Warden is extremely unique and effective. It has a ranged spammable, it has a stamina burst heal and more and very very very strong magicka dumps.
Stamina Warden will be the dominating stamina class in pvp, I'm certain. Plus his strong potential to restore all kinds of ressources.

manny254

Dracane wrote: »

Stamina Warden is extremely unique and effective. It has a ranged spammable, it has a stamina burst heal and more and very very very strong magicka dumps.
Stamina Warden will be the dominating stamina class in pvp, I'm certain. Plus his strong potential to restore all kinds of ressources.

Stamina warden has less damage then a stamina templar and much less survivability. So I really don't think this will be the case. Yes there are a lot of strong magicka skill, but trying to fit them on your bar while still dealing damage is another thing. The burst heal opens up weapon combos, but it is less effective than rally and vigor. Weapon combinations and bar set up then feel limited by the fact that you don't have a class CC.

Stamina warden more than anything needs a class CC, and for the shalk to be completely redesigned. As it stands I see stam warden just being something people play in group or try to 100 to 0 cheese people. The preload of the shalk just makes the class completely feel like it is about only doing burst, and the game does not need more of this. This skill just encourages me to cast it -> hit dive-> charge a heavy/medium attack-> crit rush-> execute if still alive. Only being built around doing that will get boring very fast.

Dracane

manny254 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Stamina Warden is extremely unique and effective. It has a ranged spammable, it has a stamina burst heal and more and very very very strong magicka dumps.
Stamina Warden will be the dominating stamina class in pvp, I'm certain. Plus his strong potential to restore all kinds of ressources.

Stamina warden has less damage then a stamina templar and much less survivability. So I really don't think this will be the case. Yes there are a lot of strong magicka skill, but trying to fit them on your bar while still dealing damage is another thing. The burst heal opens up weapon combos, but it is less effective than rally and vigor. Weapon combinations and bar set up then feel limited by the fact that you don't have a class CC.

Stamina warden more than anything needs a class CC, and for the shalk to be completely redesigned. As it stands I see stam warden just being something people play in group or try to 100 to 0 cheese people. The preload of the shalk just makes the class completely feel like it is about only doing burst, and the game does not need more of this. This skill just encourages me to cast it -> hit dive-> charge a heavy/medium attack-> crit rush-> execute if still alive. Only being built around doing that will get boring very fast.

Less damage ? No.
Screaming Cliff racer and Subterranian Assault are really good (UNDODGEABLE)damage. Deep fissure is burst that cannot be purged and does not require storing up damage like power of light + it can be used 2 times in the 6 seconds. So the damage is at the very least equal.

And survivability. The only thing Templar has in terms of that is purifying ritual. Stamina warden has a burst heal with Soothing Spores and Deceptive predator, giving him more dodge chance. And then of course Bond of nature passive. I don't see, where stamina templar is superior in any way.

Strider_Roshin

Stam wardens are disgustingly strong in PvP.

manny254

Dracane wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Stamina Warden is extremely unique and effective. It has a ranged spammable, it has a stamina burst heal and more and very very very strong magicka dumps.
Stamina Warden will be the dominating stamina class in pvp, I'm certain. Plus his strong potential to restore all kinds of ressources.

Stamina warden has less damage then a stamina templar and much less survivability. So I really don't think this will be the case. Yes there are a lot of strong magicka skill, but trying to fit them on your bar while still dealing damage is another thing. The burst heal opens up weapon combos, but it is less effective than rally and vigor. Weapon combinations and bar set up then feel limited by the fact that you don't have a class CC.

Stamina warden more than anything needs a class CC, and for the shalk to be completely redesigned. As it stands I see stam warden just being something people play in group or try to 100 to 0 cheese people. The preload of the shalk just makes the class completely feel like it is about only doing burst, and the game does not need more of this. This skill just encourages me to cast it -> hit dive-> charge a heavy/medium attack-> crit rush-> execute if still alive. Only being built around doing that will get boring very fast.

Less damage ? No.
Screaming Cliff racer and Subterranian Assault are really good (UNDODGEABLE)damage. Deep fissure is burst that cannot be purged and does not require storing up damage like power of light + it can be used 2 times in the 6 seconds. So the damage is at the very least equal.

And survivability. The only thing Templar has in terms of that is purifying ritual. Stamina warden has a burst heal with Soothing Spores and Deceptive predator, giving him more dodge chance. And then of course Bond of nature passive. I don't see, where stamina templar is superior in any way.

Good luck hitting an aware player who has any idea what they are doing with the shalk. Potl is also a spammable skill that can be placed on multiple target, and unless that target is a templar it is going to hit. If you don't think it will hit the damage cap on that target you can also recast the skill, and the damage will carry over to help you hit the cap on the next cast. If you are unaware jabs is higher damage skill that is undodgeable with a damage proc and snare.

That burst heal will be rarely used unless warden gets some preorder bonus that gives them extra bar slots. Once again vigor and rally are more effective skills. As the game stands purify is one of the strongest defensive skills in the game. I would take it over any of the wardens defensive skills in a heart beat. When you factor in the practicality of what you can actually slot on a build I would trade the entire warden defensive kit for it in PVP.

Dracane

manny254 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Stamina Warden is extremely unique and effective. It has a ranged spammable, it has a stamina burst heal and more and very very very strong magicka dumps.
Stamina Warden will be the dominating stamina class in pvp, I'm certain. Plus his strong potential to restore all kinds of ressources.

Stamina warden has less damage then a stamina templar and much less survivability. So I really don't think this will be the case. Yes there are a lot of strong magicka skill, but trying to fit them on your bar while still dealing damage is another thing. The burst heal opens up weapon combos, but it is less effective than rally and vigor. Weapon combinations and bar set up then feel limited by the fact that you don't have a class CC.

Stamina warden more than anything needs a class CC, and for the shalk to be completely redesigned. As it stands I see stam warden just being something people play in group or try to 100 to 0 cheese people. The preload of the shalk just makes the class completely feel like it is about only doing burst, and the game does not need more of this. This skill just encourages me to cast it -> hit dive-> charge a heavy/medium attack-> crit rush-> execute if still alive. Only being built around doing that will get boring very fast.

Less damage ? No.
Screaming Cliff racer and Subterranian Assault are really good (UNDODGEABLE)damage. Deep fissure is burst that cannot be purged and does not require storing up damage like power of light + it can be used 2 times in the 6 seconds. So the damage is at the very least equal.

And survivability. The only thing Templar has in terms of that is purifying ritual. Stamina warden has a burst heal with Soothing Spores and Deceptive predator, giving him more dodge chance. And then of course Bond of nature passive. I don't see, where stamina templar is superior in any way.

Good luck hitting an aware player who has any idea what they are doing with the shalk. Potl is also a spammable skill that can be placed on multiple target, and unless that target is a templar it is going to hit. If you don't think it will hit the damage cap on that target you can also recast the skill, and the damage will carry over to help you hit the cap on the next cast. If you are unaware jabs is higher damage skill that is undodgeable with a damage proc and snare.

That burst heal will be rarely used unless warden gets some preorder bonus that gives them extra bar slots. Once again vigor and rally are more effective skills. As the game stands purify is one of the strongest defensive skills in the game. I would take it over any of the wardens defensive skills in a heart beat. When you factor in the practicality of what you can actually slot on a build I would trade the entire warden defensive kit for it in PVP.

I think you are too theoretical. Have you actually duelled on a warden for example ?
It's true, purifying ritual is unreachable and completely over the top, you need nothing else when you have that. But considering how unique the Stamward is and how he compensate for usual stamina weaknesses, I think he will be dominating them all. Because he has close to no weaknesses.

manny254

Dracane wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Stamina Warden is extremely unique and effective. It has a ranged spammable, it has a stamina burst heal and more and very very very strong magicka dumps.
Stamina Warden will be the dominating stamina class in pvp, I'm certain. Plus his strong potential to restore all kinds of ressources.

Stamina warden has less damage then a stamina templar and much less survivability. So I really don't think this will be the case. Yes there are a lot of strong magicka skill, but trying to fit them on your bar while still dealing damage is another thing. The burst heal opens up weapon combos, but it is less effective than rally and vigor. Weapon combinations and bar set up then feel limited by the fact that you don't have a class CC.

Stamina warden more than anything needs a class CC, and for the shalk to be completely redesigned. As it stands I see stam warden just being something people play in group or try to 100 to 0 cheese people. The preload of the shalk just makes the class completely feel like it is about only doing burst, and the game does not need more of this. This skill just encourages me to cast it -> hit dive-> charge a heavy/medium attack-> crit rush-> execute if still alive. Only being built around doing that will get boring very fast.

Less damage ? No.
Screaming Cliff racer and Subterranian Assault are really good (UNDODGEABLE)damage. Deep fissure is burst that cannot be purged and does not require storing up damage like power of light + it can be used 2 times in the 6 seconds. So the damage is at the very least equal.

And survivability. The only thing Templar has in terms of that is purifying ritual. Stamina warden has a burst heal with Soothing Spores and Deceptive predator, giving him more dodge chance. And then of course Bond of nature passive. I don't see, where stamina templar is superior in any way.

Good luck hitting an aware player who has any idea what they are doing with the shalk. Potl is also a spammable skill that can be placed on multiple target, and unless that target is a templar it is going to hit. If you don't think it will hit the damage cap on that target you can also recast the skill, and the damage will carry over to help you hit the cap on the next cast. If you are unaware jabs is higher damage skill that is undodgeable with a damage proc and snare.

That burst heal will be rarely used unless warden gets some preorder bonus that gives them extra bar slots. Once again vigor and rally are more effective skills. As the game stands purify is one of the strongest defensive skills in the game. I would take it over any of the wardens defensive skills in a heart beat. When you factor in the practicality of what you can actually slot on a build I would trade the entire warden defensive kit for it in PVP.

I think you are too theoretical. Have you actually duelled on a warden for example ?
It's true, purifying ritual is unreachable and completely over the top, you need nothing else when you have that. But considering how unique the Stamward is and how he compensate for usual stamina weaknesses, I think he will be dominating them all. Because he has close to no weaknesses.

I have played with it plenty, and I have actually played stamina in open world PVP. Considering you think purify is over the top I know that you have never player templar in open world. Considering you are a sorc I am almost certain that you feel like this because they have a reflect. So this entire conversation makes sense to me now. Warden can duel, but any class can be built to duel. Take those dueling specs into actual open world pvp and it is a whole other story.

Dracane

manny254 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Stamina Warden is extremely unique and effective. It has a ranged spammable, it has a stamina burst heal and more and very very very strong magicka dumps.
Stamina Warden will be the dominating stamina class in pvp, I'm certain. Plus his strong potential to restore all kinds of ressources.

Stamina warden has less damage then a stamina templar and much less survivability. So I really don't think this will be the case. Yes there are a lot of strong magicka skill, but trying to fit them on your bar while still dealing damage is another thing. The burst heal opens up weapon combos, but it is less effective than rally and vigor. Weapon combinations and bar set up then feel limited by the fact that you don't have a class CC.

Stamina warden more than anything needs a class CC, and for the shalk to be completely redesigned. As it stands I see stam warden just being something people play in group or try to 100 to 0 cheese people. The preload of the shalk just makes the class completely feel like it is about only doing burst, and the game does not need more of this. This skill just encourages me to cast it -> hit dive-> charge a heavy/medium attack-> crit rush-> execute if still alive. Only being built around doing that will get boring very fast.

Less damage ? No.
Screaming Cliff racer and Subterranian Assault are really good (UNDODGEABLE)damage. Deep fissure is burst that cannot be purged and does not require storing up damage like power of light + it can be used 2 times in the 6 seconds. So the damage is at the very least equal.

And survivability. The only thing Templar has in terms of that is purifying ritual. Stamina warden has a burst heal with Soothing Spores and Deceptive predator, giving him more dodge chance. And then of course Bond of nature passive. I don't see, where stamina templar is superior in any way.

Good luck hitting an aware player who has any idea what they are doing with the shalk. Potl is also a spammable skill that can be placed on multiple target, and unless that target is a templar it is going to hit. If you don't think it will hit the damage cap on that target you can also recast the skill, and the damage will carry over to help you hit the cap on the next cast. If you are unaware jabs is higher damage skill that is undodgeable with a damage proc and snare.

That burst heal will be rarely used unless warden gets some preorder bonus that gives them extra bar slots. Once again vigor and rally are more effective skills. As the game stands purify is one of the strongest defensive skills in the game. I would take it over any of the wardens defensive skills in a heart beat. When you factor in the practicality of what you can actually slot on a build I would trade the entire warden defensive kit for it in PVP.

I think you are too theoretical. Have you actually duelled on a warden for example ?
It's true, purifying ritual is unreachable and completely over the top, you need nothing else when you have that. But considering how unique the Stamward is and how he compensate for usual stamina weaknesses, I think he will be dominating them all. Because he has close to no weaknesses.

I have played with it plenty, and I have actually played stamina in open world PVP. Considering you think purify is over the top I know that you have never player templar in open world. Considering you are a sorc I am almost certain that you feel like this because they have a reflect. So this entire conversation makes sense to me now. Warden can duel, but any class can be built to duel. Take those dueling specs into actual open world pvp and it is a whole other story.

I presume few will choose the reflect morph of crytallized shield, but the ultimate morph. my problem with this ability, is that it is basically reflective scales, just better in any aspect. It's almost a free cast and can be cast infinitely even by stamina builds and of course that the game really didn't need yet another reflect. As if projectiles wouldn't already be so easily countered.

And I have only played magicka Templar. In fact, my only stam class is a stamina Sorc I don't like the playstyle.
Luckily, I'm going to reroll Magicka Warden anyway. So who cares for Sorcs anyway

acw37162

I will fall out of my chair if Wardens get a stamina based DoT not only does it not fit into the deign of the class so far it would be disgustingly over powered IMO.

olsborg

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Stam wardens are disgustingly strong in PvP.

This, they do not need a buff.
Look at stamblade and stamplar, they are up *** creek and have been so the entire 1T patch.

Dracane

acw37162 wrote: »

I will fall out of my chair if Waedens get a stamina based DoT not only does it not fit into the deign of the class so far it would be disgustingly over powered IMO.

If they make the fester flies become a stamina morph, then gg. It's such an extremely powerful dot (at least that one morph is)

Mettaricana

Ok ima say it again the skills doesnt need to cost stamina it makes no sense.

Just like sorcs bound armaments how the hell am i to conjure armor from stamina? Was just a dumb idea same for hurricaine am i ising all my stam to fart so hard it creates an up draft?

Leave warden skill cost types alone

Strider_Roshin

Mettaricana wrote: »

Ok ima say it again the skills doesnt need to cost stamina it makes no sense.

Just like sorcs bound armaments how the hell am i to conjure armor from stamina? Was just a dumb idea same for hurricaine am i ising all my stam to fart so hard it creates an up draft?

Leave warden skill cost types alone

Ferocious leap slams the ground, and deals fire damage. Stone fist throws a rock, and deals magic damage. It's best to not try to rationalize these things.

SirCritical

olsborg wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Stam wardens are disgustingly strong in PvP.

This, they do not need a buff.
Look at stamblade and stamplar, they are up *** creek and have been so the entire 1T patch.

Now here is the problem with these whole nerf-train: some people think if it's okay in PvP, then everything is okay, and if it generates problem in PvP, it has to be changed. Guys, wake up, there's PvE also, not just PvP in this game! I don't know how sustain ruins your game in Cyro, but it's quite good now for us PvEers!

Do not ruin our game out of Cyro, just because you can't defeat someone in PvP! You have the solution: dress like the opponent; but I just can't *** dress up like the Warrior in vHRC or can't wear an axe-disguise like in vAA!!!

SirCritical

Eh, sry for being rude, calmed down for now.

For being some kind of constructive: I think the Warden class should get some love PvE-wise, on stam regen (that netch...), mass-chaining (that frozen gate should be usable on groups) etc. There are some ideas, partially covered by the Warden-skills, but not enough. Those wasps should be hitting with poison attack also, besides physical, for a longer lasting DoT. The fracturing bugs should be instant, not 3 secs after cast. Warden needs some group buff also, maybe resistance-based (like the DK provides major damage-buffs). Warden needs bigger damage bonus based on maxHP, and overall: more use of the high maxHP, like DKs Igneous Shield, which depends on maxHP.

Go on guys, and one day Warden will be more needed, because now it's just near meh.

F7sus4

flipeled wrote: »

3) Swarm - In my opinion, this is one of the two abilities that needs to have a stamina morph, badly, to make the class good overall. It's a long-ranged damage-over-time ability that I would say is essential for a damage-dealer build, but only have magicka morphs.

This! This! This! This! This! This! This! This! This!

Stamden

I think they just need to give Swarm a stamina morph, and give the cliff racer and bear an actual effect on their morphs.