Criminality is overpowered, boring. A justice system suggestion.

theslynx

TL;DR - Criminal actions are profitable, and there's no reason to stick with being a 'good guy.' Recommending a buff you gain for not getting any bounties for a while that lets you complete dailies for the guards, earning a bit less than you would as a perfect criminal, but giving you another option. This ups the ante for criminals to avoid detection and gives people a reason to side with the law.

Originally, the justice system was going to feature ways for players to align themselves with or against the law. That was largely scrapped, and the bits of it that remain are underwhelming.

Stealing is simple and profitable, with most players doing it prior to logging out, meaning they never have to face impactful penalties as bounties decay. There's no cost to the decision, no reason not to be law abiding. You would simply leave money on the table.

The result is that stealing manages to be both powerful and feel almost pointless. I don't just mean this from a 'RP' perspective; I mean it undermines both those who want stealing to feel thrilling, like you're actually a crafty criminal taking big risks for gain, and those who want to stay within certain moral boundaries as they play. Stealing right now just feels rather like harvesting: an amoral 'choice' you make if you want to keep up with the cost of in-game life. (You don't have to RP to feel the difference between something that's a pure mechanic and something given some perfunctory justification in-game, or you'd happily skip the dialogue from every quest and see no complaints here about things like writing, voice acting and so on. Even if you are that kind of player, there's little of interest in the current mechanics, which amount to 'steal or miss out on income.')

I think that what ought to happen is some sort of reward accruing to those who forego bounties entirely. This will improve engaging in both criminal and lawful behaviour.

My recommendation would be that players who have not received a bounty for a certain amount of time get a constant 'buff' (e.g., 'Respected,' gives some tiny statistical benefit). The buff should have a minor and major form, such that a day without bounties gives you a small buff, and two days or more without gives you a stronger one. When your character has the major buff, you would have access to a new daily activitiy from the city guard which gives good gold (but not quite as good as you'd get from flawless thieving - crime should pay when done properly!); you'd be charged with going to some delve in which various bandits hide out, and asked to retrieve trinkets from them to claim a bounty on a gang. Every fifth bounty you turn in without losing at least the minor buff (e.g. grabbing a random apple when you meant to talk to the guild trader), you get a bonus merits package from the guard, with chances for things like motifs, furniture plans, etc. If you get a bounty, your counter to bonus packages gets reduced or reset.

The notion here is that you have a tough choice to make, and some in-game justification for making it beyond the mechanical concerns of gold acquisition. If you wanted to play as law-abiding, but saw no reason to do so, now you have a rationale, but you'll have to balance that against the fact that you can potentially make more money as a criminal.

This makes thievery and criminal behaviour more interesting, too. Getting a bounty now has an actual cost, even if you just end up hiding and logging out: the guard dailies are off-limits to you until you prove your respectability. Moreover, if you're a good enough criminal to pull of crimes without incurring a bounty at all, you can do both - until you screw up and someone notices you, and you lose out on dailies for a while. There would an actual sense of risk in pulling off jobs, and ability is emphasized.

MarkusLiberty

Oh no, I thought I was the only one with that avatar

As for the topic at hand. I'm not sure if making thieving harder, or more uncomfortable is really that great of an idea. There's plenty of better ways to make money in the game as it is. I do like a lot of what you're saying though, especially the part of rewarding flawless theavery, and the dailies

AzraelKrieg

I like the idea though setting it behind a buff is the only thing I disagree with as good thieves can avoid getting a bounty and so would be able to do both. Have it open to anyone without a bounty, no buff needed or as a way to pay off a bounty by working with the guards.

WalksonGraves

You try making a profit picking pickpockets with 40% success rates and constant bribes. It's a pain to level.

Tasear

I like the idea of changes to justice system, but don't support this plan

Kiralyn2000

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

I like the idea though setting it behind a buff is the only thing I disagree with as good thieves can avoid getting a bounty and so would be able to do both. Have it open to anyone without a bounty, no buff needed or as a way to pay off a bounty by working with the guards.

Yeah, this. There's plenty of "thievery" you can do without any risk of bounty.

(I know a bunch of buildings with "steal" containers that have no NPCs. Heck, most of my low-level crafting writ alts do a robbery run through the Lydia in Daggerfall harbor after turning in their writs for the day. Get 50+ ingredients to launder, ~1-2k in stolen goods, and periodic furniture & provisioning recipes. Bounty? What bounty?)

theslynx

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

I like the idea though setting it behind a buff is the only thing I disagree with as good thieves can avoid getting a bounty and so would be able to do both. Have it open to anyone without a bounty, no buff needed or as a way to pay off a bounty by working with the guards.

If anyone could do it without a bounty, thieves would do the daily prior to stealing a bunch of stuff before logging out, then repeating the cycle the next day.

I was hoping that the bounty being available for undetected thieves encourages a tension when stealing that isn't really there now, and makes it harder to engage in both activities simultaneously. Maybe it needs tweaks, though.

Drummerx04

Thieving is boring and I can make 2x+ as much gold in half the time with more engaging activities. Any buff you suggest for not getting caught is pretty much going to be a permanent addition to my character.

Having said that...

Honestly the most boring part about the justice system is the guards. As soon as I get any bounty they can just force a dialog stun and the only option upon being engaged by guards is to just run away. Don't get me wrong, I understand if the guards were made killable in a patch then it would immediately be open season on guards, but having the only option being to run if they engage you... is pretty lame.

STEVIL

right now the base justice thieving system is if you know what you are doing about as difficult and profitable as other casual repeatable content - less than some and more than others.

So while i am all for adding more injustice content and even adding harder injustice content, the main system does not need to be made harder no any buffs given for it or for those who do not do it or do it this way or that way.

Add new - sure - but add-on ot takeaway - not so much.

DaveMoeDee

Maybe they can have a special skill line for those who don't want to steal. Like knitting, or stamp collecting.

STEVIL

WalksonGraves wrote: »

You try making a profit picking pickpockets with 40% success rates and constant bribes. It's a pain to level.

i reccomend...

Dont level it by pickpocket but by fencing - find good cellars or storerooms and if you have db find routes with solo victims lined up for you and let the fencing of the goods level up your legerd and get your pickpocket to very good. Also of course chest locks kick in for legerd if i recall. but no -fencing is the speedy way.

For tg line itself, yeah can take a bit but if you get the ledger up by fencing you are good to go.

MrBetadine

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Thieving is boring and I can make 2x+ as much gold in half the time with more engaging activities. Any buff you suggest for not getting caught is pretty much going to be a permanent addition to my character.

Having said that...

Honestly the most boring part about the justice system is the guards. As soon as I get any bounty they can just force a dialog stun and the only option upon being engaged by guards is to just run away. Don't get me wrong, I understand if the guards were made killable in a patch then it would immediately be open season on guards, but having the only option being to run if they engage you... is pretty lame.

Agree. Current stealth/guard system is pretty bad. Feels arbitrary and forced. Inferior to games like Thief that came 20 years ago. It is not worthwhile to have a full-fledged reward/punish system around broken things.

Kiralyn2000

STEVIL wrote: »

Dont level it by pickpocket but by fencing - find good cellars or storerooms and if you have db find routes with solo victims lined up for you and let the fencing of the goods level up your legerd and get your pickpocket to very good. Also of course chest locks kick in for legerd if i recall. but no -fencing is the speedy way.

Yeah, my low level crafting writ/mule alts have around 16-18 Legerdemain right now, just from stealing stuff from the holds of the Lydia & fencing it, and unlocking the chests near the bridge outside Daggerfall. No pickpocketing at all. And they've never had a bounty.

BenLocoDete

The main game makes your character fairly good already = you save the day for 99.99% of the NPCs.

Despite you being able to murder/pickpocket your way through there are very few options for evil aligned characters. Don't get me wrong, it is not a matter of being inherently evil and finding exercises within the game, but to roleplay your way through the world, being it a good or an evil character. Makes for diversity, replaybility, offers new paths to enjoy the game and the story.

The game really lacks to present even a more neutral side for mercenaries most of the time i.e. a farmer wants to kill his wife but is facing a hard time by their protectors. Of course you can turn against him, but what if you don't? Or to side with the cultists, be a daedra worshiper = kill the king, or a closer advisor to have it replaced with one under the cult's influence... every story should have its con option AT LEAST so maybe instead of returning that sack of gold you are out to find to a given farmer, keep it and find that character in the next village cursing your wealth.

Make that quest sack an activator(you can open it but if you loot, no return).

There are reasons for you to go full good guy but these are RolePlay reasons or conceptual reasons. The game is huge and you don't have to do everything you are asked if you do not intend to max out your char. If you do then you wouldn't be asking for harder stuff right?).

Also, if something in the game is really easy because of "this", then don't do it, people sure will do but well they will do anything they can, some won't, it comes to a personal taste really.

To my understanding it is very reasonable to be unsatisfied with the current implementation but leave all the work to the devs is useless. You have to "limit" and create rules for your gameplay that will affect it in a beneficial way for you.

Mattock_Romulus

So, a nerf crime thread, nice. At least fishing hasn't been nerfed yet.

TheShadowScout

Personally I would much rather see the guards learn how to read and write, so they'd write down your bounty, and never forget it. Aka, bounty not reduced by time in the world...

Then... split it, so bounty acquired in daggerfall would not follow you to morrowind... but remain in covenant lands, ever waiting for you. Three "reputation" meters, so you could be an upstanding citizen in the pact while being public enemy number one over in dominion lands...


And finally... better punishments. Not just the "pay up, dead or alive" we have now, but things that may have more of an impact, so that criminal characters in ESO might actually prefer to avoid facing the punishment, because it'd be annoying...


Like, for a small bounty, spend some time locked in the stocks (at which point your bounty would start going down). Not like now, where you just move over to a different character or hide in cyrodil for a bit... but have your character in stocks for (depending on bounty) five, ten or fifteen minutes of your daily gametime... timer paused if you log off, so you could not cut it short.
And naturally, this should come with an "throw rotten eggs & veggies" emote/item (mudballs will do in a pinch) for bystanders...


Or for a bigger bounty, a public whipping or other medieval-style corporal punishment - and an annoying "just whipped" debuff that stays with you for hours, or different debuffs depending on punishments; but definitely debuffs you would really avoid. Like... half movement when you just had your footsoled caned, or reduced max health for a back whipped raw, or attack miss chance for just being out of the thumbscrews, or whatever... stuff that would make your fighting chance in PvE and PvP much less then it would be, and thus something players really would not want to happen...


And finally, for those who live a life of crime... a prison isle public dungeon, where they can reduce their bounty by mindless repetetive tasks like breaking rocks, sewing jute sacks, or whatever. While in prison rags and unarmed. With lots of "prison clichee" more or less random encounters, where the characters speechcraft skills might become helpful... like persuade to convince that sadistic guard not to pick on you, or use your thieves guild contacts to get into the good graces of the local cell bloc boss, or use intimidate to preserve your... pride... during that obligatory shower encounter involving the dropped soap...

Naturally any such prison isle would only have two ways out - serving your time (aka, reducing youir bounty back to zero through the prison tasks), or a jailbreak. Latter meaning you'd have to find the hidden prison escape plan (hidden meaning no flaoters telling you where to go, it would all be follow the hints and find out on your own), and then making it succeed (meaning, find enough of the again hidden contributing miniquests to raise your escape chance to enjoy success - classic clichee stuff, like get the parts for making a rope, make sure that guard will be distractred at the right time, collect enough spoons for digging, get rid of the dug earth without anyone noticing, get that old pirates peg leg, whatever; if you don't find enough, you may fail and get thrown right back in, with a heft addition to your bounty as well)

And of course, any such prison isle should come with a load of nifty new justice achievements to unlock dependiong on your success or failure in prison... Titles depending on how you get out like "Ex-con" or "Escapee". A "prisoner rags" costume. Prison tatoos.

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

So, a nerf crime thread, nice. At least fishing hasn't been nerfed yet.

...nerf fishing nao!
And nah, we are not exactly taking nerf crime, we are thinking about how it could be more interesting! Since right now... it all too often isn't. So, forget the "neft it" ideas, and start thinking up more ways to make crime in ESO interesting again!

KingKush

I like the changes you suggested but I don't like the idea of ZOS using their very limited resources on attempting to implement such changes.

There's a long list of bug fixes/features that should take first priority imo.

theslynx

STEVIL wrote: »

Add new - sure - but add-on ot takeaway - not so much.

I'm not sure I totally understand. I don't see my suggestion as a way of subtracting any current content.

MarkusLiberty wrote: »

Oh no, I thought I was the only one with that avatar

I was going to suggest you copied me, but your account is older. Today I'm the sheeple.

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

So, a nerf crime thread, nice. At least fishing hasn't been nerfed yet.

I'm legitimately confused about the bit where I suggested a nerf to crime. I get not wanting to read the post. It's verbose. But why comment on things you evidently haven't read?

KingKush wrote: »

I like the changes you suggested but I don't like the idea of ZOS using their very limited resources on attempting to implement such changes.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Like, for a small bounty, spend some time locked in the stocks (at which point your bounty would start going down). Not like now, where you just move over to a different character or hide in cyrodil for a bit... but have your character in stocks for (depending on bounty) five, ten or fifteen minutes of your daily gametime... timer paused if you log off, so you could not cut it short.

And nah, we are not exactly taking nerf crime, we are thinking about how it could be more interesting! Since right now... it all too often isn't. So, forget the "neft it" ideas, and start thinking up more ways to make crime in ESO interesting again!

A bit hardcore for me. But I agree that crime feels kind of rote, insubstantial and listless right now despite being an easy way to make quick gold. (Also, I'm tired of dead townie NPCs everywhere, and think that might go down if there were additional options.) I would also like there to be some lawful method to counter it; it gives weight to your decision, whichever one you choose.

I suggested what I did in OP because (I suspect) it would be easier to implement than other solutions. There are already about a dozen bandit factions in-game that would work for bounty hunting, and dailies are the kind of content that let your repurpose existing assets. Perhaps the 'buff' needs work. Maybe accepting any thieves guild jobs removes it on account of unsavoury associations?


Anyways, thanks for reading and suggesting everyone.

Rainwhisper

This is an Elder Scrolls game. Pickpocketing and stealing are time-honored, well-established, and very popular ways to make money in Elder Scrolls games.

Including them isn't as much about replicating some sense of "reality," but rather part of the ongoing process of making ESO feel like a traditional Elder Scrolls game, but with friends.

coop500

I agree, the game is horrible about giving the finger to players who want to be good, while rewarding the players who steal. There is literally no reason to be good and it is a little morally questionable but most of all it's unfair to people who want to play good and not a thief.

It's so saddening to me when a noob asks about mounts and I tell him he can buy one for 10K then first thing everyone does is tell him to go steal a bunch of stuff so he can buy the horse. Like so casual and simple, just go steal.

To me all the justice system did was reward people for being bad while saying FU to players who want to play good. And nowadays everyone just assumes everyone wants to steal and if you don't then you are misisng out on the gold and thus, a lesser player. The community+the game almost forces/encourages you to be a thief or forever earn less.

And don't even get me started on the Dark Brotherhood and the murder/thieft....

Queo

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Personally I would much rather see the guards learn how to read and write, so they'd write down your bounty, and never forget it. Aka, bounty not reduced by time in the world...

Then... split it, so bounty acquired in daggerfall would not follow you to morrowind... but remain in covenant lands, ever waiting for you. Three "reputation" meters, so you could be an upstanding citizen in the pact while being public enemy number one over in dominion lands...


And finally... better punishments. Not just the "pay up, dead or alive" we have now, but things that may have more of an impact, so that criminal characters in ESO might actually prefer to avoid facing the punishment, because it'd be annoying...


Like, for a small bounty, spend some time locked in the stocks (at which point your bounty would start going down). Not like now, where you just move over to a different character or hide in cyrodil for a bit... but have your character in stocks for (depending on bounty) five, ten or fifteen minutes of your daily gametime... timer paused if you log off, so you could not cut it short.
And naturally, this should come with an "throw rotten eggs & veggies" emote/item (mudballs will do in a pinch) for bystanders...


Or for a bigger bounty, a public whipping or other medieval-style corporal punishment - and an annoying "just whipped" debuff that stays with you for hours, or different debuffs depending on punishments; but definitely debuffs you would really avoid. Like... half movement when you just had your footsoled caned, or reduced max health for a back whipped raw, or attack miss chance for just being out of the thumbscrews, or whatever... stuff that would make your fighting chance in PvE and PvP much less then it would be, and thus something players really would not want to happen...


And finally, for those who live a life of crime... a prison isle public dungeon, where they can reduce their bounty by mindless repetetive tasks like breaking rocks, sewing jute sacks, or whatever. While in prison rags and unarmed. With lots of "prison clichee" more or less random encounters, where the characters speechcraft skills might become helpful... like persuade to convince that sadistic guard not to pick on you, or use your thieves guild contacts to get into the good graces of the local cell bloc boss, or use intimidate to preserve your... pride... during that obligatory shower encounter involving the dropped soap...

Naturally any such prison isle would only have two ways out - serving your time (aka, reducing youir bounty back to zero through the prison tasks), or a jailbreak. Latter meaning you'd have to find the hidden prison escape plan (hidden meaning no flaoters telling you where to go, it would all be follow the hints and find out on your own), and then making it succeed (meaning, find enough of the again hidden contributing miniquests to raise your escape chance to enjoy success - classic clichee stuff, like get the parts for making a rope, make sure that guard will be distractred at the right time, collect enough spoons for digging, get rid of the dug earth without anyone noticing, get that old pirates peg leg, whatever; if you don't find enough, you may fail and get thrown right back in, with a heft addition to your bounty as well)

And of course, any such prison isle should come with a load of nifty new justice achievements to unlock dependiong on your success or failure in prison... Titles depending on how you get out like "Ex-con" or "Escapee". A "prisoner rags" costume. Prison tatoos.

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

So, a nerf crime thread, nice. At least fishing hasn't been nerfed yet.

...nerf fishing nao!
And nah, we are not exactly taking nerf crime, we are thinking about how it could be more interesting! Since right now... it all too often isn't. So, forget the "neft it" ideas, and start thinking up more ways to make crime in ESO interesting again!

This is awesome!

I really all of it... but if i had to settle for one thing on this list its the bounties dont go away, BUT are faction locked... that be fun. That would add a lot more to roll playing aspect. I would love to see all of this though as a DLC, sooner then later. (With the bounty bit being a update to the whole game.)

Daemons_Bane

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Personally I would much rather see the guards learn how to read and write, so they'd write down your bounty, and never forget it. Aka, bounty not reduced by time in the world...

And finally... better punishments. Not just the "pay up, dead or alive" we have now, but things that may have more of an impact, so that criminal characters in ESO might actually prefer to avoid facing the punishment, because it'd be annoying...


Like, for a small bounty, spend some time locked in the stocks (at which point your bounty would start going down). Not like now, where you just move over to a different character or hide in cyrodil for a bit... but have your character in stocks for (depending on bounty) five, ten or fifteen minutes of your daily gametime... timer paused if you log off, so you could not cut it short.
And naturally, this should come with an "throw rotten eggs & veggies" emote/item (mudballs will do in a pinch) for bystanders...


Or for a bigger bounty, a public whipping or other medieval-style corporal punishment - and an annoying "just whipped" debuff that stays with you for hours, or different debuffs depending on punishments; but definitely debuffs you would really avoid. Like... half movement when you just had your footsoled caned, or reduced max health for a back whipped raw, or attack miss chance for just being out of the thumbscrews, or whatever... stuff that would make your fighting chance in PvE and PvP much less then it would be, and thus something players really would not want to happen...


And finally, for those who live a life of crime... a prison isle public dungeon, where they can reduce their bounty by mindless repetetive tasks like breaking rocks, sewing jute sacks, or whatever. While in prison rags and unarmed. With lots of "prison clichee" more or less random encounters, where the characters speechcraft skills might become helpful... like persuade to convince that sadistic guard not to pick on you, or use your thieves guild contacts to get into the good graces of the local cell bloc boss, or use intimidate to preserve your... pride... during that obligatory shower encounter involving the dropped soap...

Naturally any such prison isle would only have two ways out - serving your time (aka, reducing youir bounty back to zero through the prison tasks), or a jailbreak. Latter meaning you'd have to find the hidden prison escape plan (hidden meaning no flaoters telling you where to go, it would all be follow the hints and find out on your own), and then making it succeed (meaning, find enough of the again hidden contributing miniquests to raise your escape chance to enjoy success - classic clichee stuff, like get the parts for making a rope, make sure that guard will be distractred at the right time, collect enough spoons for digging, get rid of the dug earth without anyone noticing, get that old pirates peg leg, whatever; if you don't find enough, you may fail and get thrown right back in, with a heft addition to your bounty as well)

And of course, any such prison isle should come with a load of nifty new justice achievements to unlock dependiong on your success or failure in prison... Titles depending on how you get out like "Ex-con" or "Escapee". A "prisoner rags" costume. Prison tatoos.

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

So, a nerf crime thread, nice. At least fishing hasn't been nerfed yet.

...nerf fishing nao!
And nah, we are not exactly taking nerf crime, we are thinking about how it could be more interesting! Since right now... it all too often isn't. So, forget the "neft it" ideas, and start thinking up more ways to make crime in ESO interesting again!

So once again, people want to interfere in other people's playstyle and time.. So your next suggestion, I take it, will be that the more you die in PvP, the longer you will have to wait before you can respawn? Because of course you have to be punished each time you die, since you engaged in a fight for territory? Let's say that at your 10th death, you must remain a ghost for 1 hour, which only counts down when standing near a graveyard.. Leaving cyrodill will not affect the timer

max_only

I like the OP's suggestion because I can participate in one side, both, or neither. Also it isn't unrealistically punitive for casuals (like the other sadistic suggestion in this thread). Also it doesn't suggest a pvp aspect like most of these threads do. Also a "hidden" quest line "Guard Dailies" would be an awesome surprise for new players.

I just don't like that the rewards are recipes/plans. Make it like the fighters' guild daily where they give ornate armor and a few crafting mats. Or give out the "treasure" items we usually find and fence but in an already cleaned state.

Wreuntzylla

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Thieving is boring and I can make 2x+ as much gold in half the time with more engaging activities. Any buff you suggest for not getting caught is pretty much going to be a permanent addition to my character.

Having said that...

Honestly the most boring part about the justice system is the guards. As soon as I get any bounty they can just force a dialog stun and the only option upon being engaged by guards is to just run away. Don't get me wrong, I understand if the guards were made killable in a patch then it would immediately be open season on guards, but having the only option being to run if they engage you... is pretty lame.

I am not a RPer buy any stretch of the imagination, but I do like a game that's immersive. The guard system continues to be the only reason I can't recommend this game to others. The clash between your ascension towards godhood and ordinary city guards being more powerful than you is too much.

They shoudl have either stuck with the original plan of making it a PvP system or made it so that if you exceeded certain bounty levels, different things come after you. An archmage, an aspect of the 3, etc.

Daemons_Bane

Drummerx04 wrote: »

As soon as I get any bounty they can just force a dialog stun and the only option upon being engaged by guards is to just run away. Don't get me wrong, I understand if the guards were made killable in a patch then it would immediately be open season on guards, but having the only option being to run if they engage you... is pretty lame.

Well, there are other options of you have the right perks

Sallington

It's unbalanced and boring because it's only half completed. The enforcer system would have been amazing, but noooooooooooo. Can't have a PvP element because blah blah blah whatever stupid reasons people complain for..

Daemons_Bane

Sallington wrote: »

It's unbalanced and boring because it's only half completed. The enforcer system would have been amazing, but noooooooooooo. Can't have a PvP element because blah blah blah whatever stupid reasons people complain for..

Says you But the PvP crowd whines just about as much as the PvE crowd..

coop500

Sallington wrote: »

It's unbalanced and boring because it's only half completed. The enforcer system would have been amazing, but noooooooooooo. Can't have a PvP element because blah blah blah whatever stupid reasons people complain for..

I actually don't even like PVP but would support if players could go after thieves, it adds that sense of danger both thieves and PVP players want, while us PVE players either just need to get good and not be caught, or just be good and not steal~ (Note, I would just be good, I barely steal anyway and it's only on my Evil toon.)

But yes, everyone is equal whiners, one side is not more whiny then the other.

theslynx

Sallington wrote: »

It's unbalanced and boring because it's only half completed. The enforcer system would have been amazing, but noooooooooooo. Can't have a PvP element because blah blah blah whatever stupid reasons people complain for..

The enforcer system being PvP made it kind of an awkward fit for a PvE activity. It'd be great for those who opt in, but I'd still like to see a PvE-focused system for the many who just don't enjoy PvP.

Brictoria

Another option would be to allow guards to perform random "stop and search" with the chance of this occurring increased if noticed "sneaking" and/or based on previous bounties[1], or if an NPC has noticed a theft/murder, or a body is found in the area (regardless of whether THEY were the thief/killer or not).

Maybe also have guards run towards NPC's complaining about someone stealing or attacking/killing NPC's, instead of continuing on their paths just outside detect/arrest range.

Guards detection radius could also vary based on the frequency or recent level of theft/killings in the area, to prevent the killing fields in areas like Vulkel Guard (On a side note, I still can't work out why that guard near the thieves guild entrance there hasn't got suspicious of the number of people traveling back and forth past them, and investigated where they are heading to/from, as there is no obvious reason for that being such a high traffic area (Or, for that matter, how there can still be grass with the amount of foot traffic it receives)).

[1] Regardless of whether paid off or waited out, but decreases gradually in the background while character is logged in and in zones where bounty system operates, to make the bounty have unavoidable consequences.

Tholian1

No thank you. I like the system the way it is. It is also one of the easiest ways for new players to make some gold so they can participate in the game economy.