ZOS: If you care about ESO, PLEASE TAKE TIME TO READ

MacCait

Thanks for all the comments guys, much appreciated, and nice to know others are thinking and feeling the same way.

zaria wrote: »

And why nerf the poor redguards, not many of them around anyway, yes i guess it's the melee restore stamina bonus they don't like. Then replace it with an damage bonus or something.
Same with the nightblades, give something back even if just an small bonus.

One obvious race who needs an nerf.
This one will not name it but its in the same alliance as Khajiit and Bosmer and is very popular because its so OP combined with an class who will become OP after the patch.

Actually I hope they don't nerf any other races. My second main is a Highe Elf. I really don't think any races needed a nerf. Though I've always thought Nords were in need and a viable buff as they seem to be the one race that gets left behind. People always choose the Imperial over the Nord. The Nords 6% reduction has never been a true 6% reduction but seems to come out AFTER all other deductions

bareheiny wrote: »

Generally, I avoid massive walls o text. This one is an exception.


But really Mac, there's no room for thoughfulness and logic on these here forums! We need doom, gloom and rage.

Haha I know right. So glad the 'lets all **** on Deltia' thread was closed. People do seem to prefer rage and drama in these forums

Bombashaman

I may not agree with all the points, but great post.

zaria

MacCait wrote: »

Thanks for all the comments guys, much appreciated, and nice to know others are thinking and feeling the same way.

zaria wrote: »

And why nerf the poor redguards, not many of them around anyway, yes i guess it's the melee restore stamina bonus they don't like. Then replace it with an damage bonus or something.
Same with the nightblades, give something back even if just an small bonus.

One obvious race who needs an nerf.
This one will not name it but its in the same alliance as Khajiit and Bosmer and is very popular because its so OP combined with an class who will become OP after the patch.

Actually I hope they don't nerf any other races. My second main is a Highe Elf. I really don't think any races needed a nerf. Though I've always thought Nords were in need and a viable buff as they seem to be the one race that gets left behind. People always choose the Imperial over the Nord. The Nords 6% reduction has never been a true 6% reduction but seems to come out AFTER all other deductions

I'm not asking for an Altmer nerf, however if I had to nerf one it would be Altmer, not redguard.

IwakuraLain42

Long but awesome post that exactly describes my current feeling after reading the patch notes and everything in PTS forum. The massive changes announced just left me completely depressed, I usually logged on every day doing different stuff but know I need to force myself doing at least the crafting dailies.

I've played the game for nearly 2 years now and I've been able to get gradually better and been able to collect better gear. But from all I read these changes require from us massive changes in gear and gameplay just to continue playing content I could play before. Any why these changes? Just because there is a miniuscle minority of players that have infinite sustain? In my experience that is not true for a lot of players.

It's really depressing how these notes changed the positive mood for Morrowind to dread.

Glass

Great post, I agree with almost everything but the p2w part, I have 12 toons and play/played every class and style and at this moment if sorcs were introduced to the game we would be talking about p2w for certain. I tried warden and I'm not gonna say that is a balanced class by any means but just because there are so many changes that I can't say for sure.
IMO the idea of crippling decisive skills for classes like templars and dragonknights and sustain overall in the game is only just once again the inability to listen to the community. Previous patches were the same, changes that nobody asked for, like the change (nerf for me) of blazing spear or buffing daedric curse. Those two things come in mind right now and I know there are several more and at that moment they weren't trying to promote any paid expansion or new class, just trying to rebalance the game completely missing what the community asks.
They made a huge circus about taking players to their HQ and showing that they really care what the client has to say and we ended up with something totally different.
All in all I keep what the op said, i don't know if changes are so re tarded as they sound we would need to see it in live but we are far from that and the feeling of not logging in and keep progressing everyday is constant, very poor marketing in their behalf.

Narvuntien

They still have a chance not to make these changes... seriously ZOS Listern to us!... I know you had this plan and you though you nailed it... but you didn't.... we are certain of it.

The community has moved past the rage, we are making these thoughtful posts with well thought out arguements. This is more than a knee jerk rage to nerfs.

You honestly did improve the game with One Tamerial, it seemed like you finally got what your game could be, what niche it fit in, you didn't have to complete directly with other MMOs.You could have this hybridy action MMO, with very simiple mechaincs making it easy to pick up and start adventuring like any other ES title. From there you start learning what you could do with better knowleadge of the game. These changes are a step back from that back to having to "learn to play" to even play.

I get it you created something horrifyingly difficult to balance, the simpler the game is the less levers you can pull to deal when things get out of hand. But you pulled too many levers too fast with this patch, you are wiping out peoples progression in the game and therefore thier motovation to work on anything in game.

PVP is a basket case, but it is strangely charming for those for the stomach to repeated death and the unfair. Let PVP be unfair, it is hard to explain but fairness is not required (and I don't think possible). You apperently deem animation cancelling okay, so you apperently don't think fairness is required.... Let people play cheese, people have to put time and effort into cheese not just do it on a whim for the day.

brandonv516

Read each of the OPs threads. Well thought out and written. I hope the people making decisions at ZOS read this post.

If you don't like the direction this game is going, this thread needs to stay at the top!

The one thing ZOS has an advantage over us as the players is that they can actually track the % of players using infinite sustain. This hurts your thread OP about the 1% vs. 99%. Other than this, everything else looks good.

angelncelestine

The worst part is even though they clearly seen the reaction to the loss of reduce cost to begin with on the forums they decided to really stick it to there players and nerf passives, classes, and gear sets! Talk about a kick in the teeth! Here's where I am at.. I will play through the chapter because I payed for it and I like questing! If they make it so bad where vet dungeons aren't fun I will be taking a break! The next dlc is another 2 dungeons so it could be a long break!I have 0 interest in running dungeons that we could breeze through and after the new patch it will take us an hr of heavy attacks in vet fungal grotto 1!Not interested in having 30 k dps now and knocked down to 13 k! I have played the game for years and put in my time. Things should be easier! This hurts us the average player. It's like real life the middle class gets boned! The best thing they could do is separate pvp and pve and quit beating a dead horse so to speak! There will never be balance with the two shared. Oh and I wanna add my main is a poor Templar and she has been drunk and has given up on life since she read the patch notes ;-)

kakarot482_ESO

Great post, very well said, I can only hope that the devs listen.

DuckNoodles

Thank you for taking the time to post such a detailed post!

I to was one of those DCUO players, who left because of the drastic changes the company implemented.

Iv played ESO from day 1 and have stuck through some really stupid patch changes but ZoS kinda started listening to the player base and they started going in the right direction, witch i was pleased about but this new patch notes/the changes are ridiculous!

I dont mind the CP changes all for that but the skill changes are horrible!

Iv cancelled my pre order of morrowwind.

I will reconsider if ZoS startes listining to the player base again.

Vapirko

You put into words what we've all been thinking or posting in bits and pieces. ZOS, you want to know how we feel about your new game? Have a look at this.

Westo77

Great post, was very enjoyable to read everything you wrote (and I did read it all), really hope they reconsider some of their proposed ideas, I also unsubbed yesterday after being a 2 year subber

MacCait

brandonv516 wrote: »

Read each of the OPs threads. Well thought out and written. I hope the people making decisions at ZOS read this post.

If you don't like the direction this game is going, this thread needs to stay at the top!

The one thing ZOS has an advantage over us as the players is that they can actually track the % of players using infinite sustain. This hurts your thread OP about the 1% vs. 99%. Other than this, everything else looks good.

Yeah I agree that the 1% vs 99% surely can't be an accurate figure as in when I say:

"I’ve tried to establish an exact figure on what percentage of players actually do this, but can only see references to an elite 1% of PvP specific players."

and where I ask: "You speak about ‘infinite sustain’… Who exactly uses infinite sustain? What exact percentage of your players use infinite sustain?"

It would be great if someone with some official actual data could give us this figure. However, I think the point still stands either way, as I am quite sure the figure is significantly lower than the amount of players who do NOT use 'infinite sustain'. I don't actually know anyone who is able to use it.

Deep_01

I don't care about CP, Sustain or Skill changes as much as I am scared of the game going P2W [Don't think the warden is P2W] (OP gave a good picture of one possible future scenario) ESO has an amazing feel, especially for/by not being P2W. If it goes to stage 3 as per OP statement, "almost" all players who are here till now, would insta quit. No matter what the content is.

Also worried about if we get might more self-centered casuals this new expansion.

Paneross

I've already canceled my pre order and got my money back for Morrowind.

Paneross

jlboozer wrote: »

Very well thought out, I totally agree with you. ZoS needs to read this...I hope they don't destroy this game because Destiny 2 isn't that far away and I will go back to Destiny if my character plays like crap after morrowind patch. I quit Destiny for ESO for similar issues after playing Destiny since launch....

Same I left Destiny for this game and D2 will bring me back of Morrowind stays the course.

zuto40

i used to play pirate101, and i thought i had found the worst devs possible there, updates and bug fixes years apart, incomplete pvp system years after release, P2W, but this games devs found a way to be worse, no seperation of pvp and pve, garbage endgame system, blatantly nerfing classes to force players to buy warden, which doesnt make any sense cause a ton of people were gonna buy it anyway forcing people to buy it only hurts you id like to meet the marketing *** who came up with that, whoever he is should be fired pronto, but at least the 101 devs(when they updated) listened to the playerbase, when they butchered the swashbuckler class they fixed it, when they butchered the privateer class they fixed it, when they overbuffed privateers they fixed it, when cheat engine came to their attention they fixed the exploiting problem with it, you can still use it in the game and they know it but all it does is make pve battles faster, you still have to win normally

Ruinhorn

Soleya wrote: »

Really well said.

I found myself the past few days logging in, doing writs and horse training and then logging out and playing something else. Normally I would play a few hours a night, but I just feel what's the point trying to get any gear, it's most likely going to be worthless in a few weeks.

I have more hours in this game than any other I've played...in the 1000's. And lately every patch is just nerfing my character(s) into the ground. Last patch my Stam Sorc was hit so hard I don't even want to play her anymore. Doesn't feel like progression.

I consider myself average or above average, and I can't sustain indefinitely on most of my characters and get decent dps numbers.

I'd give you 1000 "agrees" if I could.
Absolutely the same situation. I do writs everyday in hope to get nice quest with a lot of vauchers, but get nothing instead. Yes, with that event I've got a lot of motifs from dailies, but that was the only reason I was doing them. This helped me to get extra 200k of gold or so on.

About a week ago I read patch notes for Morrowind. And haven't log in since I did it. Because when you realise that all you will do now in game is absolutely pointless, you simply have no desire to play. Like making guillotine knowing you're gonna be executed there after you'll finish.

We just started doing end-game Hardmodes in trials (missed vMoL and personally I vHRa HMs). And now everything is ruined. Some people left the game, some just took pause as me, some still playing.

I have stamblade and *** sorc I can't play properly (because I'm playing stamblade since beta). sNB is my main and the only one playable character. All the achievements, all motifs, researches, EVERYTHING is on him. I tried to play with other characters, but failed after you realise you don't have leveled up mount, you can't teleport anywhere you want and so on. While my sNB completed almost everything (except Goald Coast, DB was too boring for me).

And what sould I do now? Play as always? Knowing that in a month I'll become even worse than nothing? My dream was to complete this end-game content, like vMoL HM, recieve Flawless from vMA on my stam. Just to prove that I did it! Yes, I did it on the weakest class, on stam, not on mSorc everybody is playing with. I really grateful my guildmates because they allowed me to go as stam character in vet trials. Basically I'm (or was) the only one stamina melee in the group. And I was doing my best. They simply couldn't realise I can't pull much more. My rotation was perfect, timing was perfect. My fingers remember this rotation just like I remember my name.

And now... What's the point is playing for me? For other NB for example? Everyone who is telling this nerfing and absolute ignoring from ZOS is okay, these persons are just roleplayers. Once they get kicked from dungeon of trial because of lack of dps, once they get rejected from inviting into normal Trial because they don't have cp500+, once they won't be allowed even to try vet trial because they pull 20k dps on dummy, they will understand us. Collecting flowers, roleplaying with friends and so on is good, but you don't need any skills for this. You will never know what is the fun of doing vet trials with people you know. With guildmates. Maybe for Hodor and same guild such runs just a part of boring job. You come, kill and get reward. I don't know. But end-game content is a huge part of ESO. Interesting, inspiring and funny.

From this patch my the only available character is dead. ZOS forcing us to play as THEY want? Huh. There many other things and games I can do or play, really. ESO is extremely high potencially and quality game. The best for now, I'd say. But it's like with guild: if your leader is bad, guild won't do much. If your boss is bad, your company won't get much.

What I see, is that ESO leaders are bad. To bury such a nice game... This is an example for me for the whole life how you MUST NOT work with people. Yes, money are doing their job. For now. And there're many people are ready to buy 20-50k crowns just "for fun" or "support ZOS". But this won't lasts forever. You're not the first, and not the last who wants money and gives in return nothing. I've spent money. Real life time. Nerves (hello, vMA). And after 3 years as loyal player got this. Nothing. Vacuum.

Good job. Now, buy 10k of crowns, that's all we, meat-players, are need to do. Because we're not expected to do something else.

brandonv516

Going to try my magicka NB tank tonight without any cost reduction cp and no siphoning attacks.

I'll make an infused sword with magicka return, 2 magicka cost reduction glyphs and 1 magicka recovery glyph.

I'm thinking armor master and maybe lich.

This is what it has come to in being prepared for the doom. Oh and this thread needs to go back to the front so here you go.

Cerridwen

This really should be the top article on the forum. You won't find anyone who can identify and explain the issues with Eso better. There's no hate or trolling, just detailed facts which is worth the read from top to bottom.
I find it very odd that ZOS seems to have selective hearing with its fan base. It took a lot of shouting from players to even get a crown store sale from ZOS recently. The timing couldn't be worse after many loyal members have spent a lot of money on crowns to invest into the game. Many already pay for the ESO plus member subscription but will have to purchase this new "expansion" which is puzzling in its self. We pay for ESO plus for the purpose of having all future DLC content, however, as you have decided to describe it as an expansion, it doesn't count and we must pay extra.
Adding a new class which appears to dominate all over classes just from face value of reading the patch notes. Then on top of that, just to be sure, it seems that you're nerfing all other classes as well (apart from sorcs) to really make sure this new classes dominates all others. A new class is really not needed! Prehaps, working towards balancing the classes would have been a better investment into the game rather than regularly nerfing classes.
I find it demotivating to play and I feel sorry for the players who really invest some much money, time and energy into the game like MacCait has since the start. I wonder... there any point in playing when 6 out of 7 of my characters will be nerfed to the bare bones and become void? I was going to buy a home in the game but why should I invest money into a game where the developers appear to be more about profit than player satisfaction. The game is a wonderful game to play as it is although it isn't without its faults.... so why not address the critical issues that affect the game on a daily basis (such a guild traders and unbalanced classes) with a view of making the game better.

Anyway, speaking to the ESO community who are passionate about this game, I think it's in ALL our best interests to keep this thread current and popular as the devs really need to read this and take in the message of thread. It could save them from a disaster and save the game.

From The Little Panda x

MacCait

brandonv516 wrote: »

Going to try my magicka NB tank tonight without any cost reduction cp and no siphoning attacks.

I'll make an infused sword with magicka return, 2 magicka cost reduction glyphs and 1 magicka recovery glyph.

I'm thinking armor master and maybe lich.

This is what it has come to in being prepared for the doom. Oh and this thread needs to go back to the front so here you go.

I would be interested in hearing how you get on without the cost reduction cp and siphoning!

I was thinking of also trying this, but together with a reduction to the points in Heavy armour Constitution, Medium Armour Windwalker, and Light Armour Recovery and Evocation, as well as reducing the CP in Magicka recovery to 15%, and reducing Hardy, Thick skinned, Elemental defender, Blessed, and Quick recovery all to reflect the nerfs to those CP. I really can't see how my Magicka Nightblank Tank can continue to survive with that amount of drastic reduction

brandonv516

MacCait wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Going to try my magicka NB tank tonight without any cost reduction cp and no siphoning attacks.

I'll make an infused sword with magicka return, 2 magicka cost reduction glyphs and 1 magicka recovery glyph.

I'm thinking armor master and maybe lich.

This is what it has come to in being prepared for the doom. Oh and this thread needs to go back to the front so here you go.

I would be interested in hearing how you get on without the cost reduction cp and siphoning!

I was thinking of also trying this, but together with a reduction to the points in Heavy armour Constitution, Medium Armour Windwalker, and Light Armour Recovery and Evocation, as well as reducing the CP in Magicka recovery to 15%, and reducing Hardy, Thick skinned, Elemental defender, Blessed, and Quick recovery all to reflect the nerfs to those CP. I really can't see how my Magicka Nightblank Tank can continue to survive with that amount of drastic reduction

I'll let you know how it works out when I fine tune it. Didn't get to test it much last night.

Balamoor

I disagree on a few points understanding the customer base and the pay to win, those can be argued all day depending on your perspective and your authoritative base with the industry.

BUT

This is a very well thought out post and makes some valid points, and I will never bash a well thought out post. It is a breath of fresh air when after all the hair pulling and incoherent gibberish we have been getting over this.

sirston

as a person who uses satire as comedy relief/PVPer. I'm going to agree with your post, these changes hit majority of PVP negativity and smash's PVE horribly. it makes it seem like wardens will only be tanks and healers in the game which to me is a freaking dumb as hell Idea. Ive PVE'ed for "Valka scoria" and have done trails and only believe these coming changes will Hurt it horribly.

playsforfun

usually posts this long I don't read as they usually are just people whining for the sake of it but i read this one and have to say though i don't agree with all points but the majority i do agree with.

also a former dcuo player and what happened in that game was disgusting just to sell class change tokens.

Ch4mpTW

Honestly? To hell with ESO until Morrowind launches. I can't be bothered to play ESO anymore, unless doing a guide or helping someone with something. I don't even care about writs or mount upgrades anymore. Besides, how why waste my time with bs RNG and bugs that have been around for ages when there are demons to kill? Persona5 is out, and a new Ace Combat and Cyber Sleuth is in the works. Plus Dark Souls 3 just had new content go live a few days ago, and Destiny 2 is coming sooooon. I have demons to kill. Deuces.

Calandrae

Great post. I am going to highlight and quote some parts that I can 100% relate to.

"However, there are also many other gamers that will find a game they just love so much, they will invest much time and money in that game as a hobby."
This is me, because I have a family and a fulltime job I wouldn't even have time for another MMO. I also value a hobby like ESO and spend regularly money (crowns) on it. Not huge amounts, but since I don't have many hobbies I am willing to invest in the one I enjoy the most. And so far it's been ESO.

"The class nerfs you have added to the PTS in effect cripple 3 of the 4 classes... This is dangerous ground as you are possibly destroying something that many of us loyal players have invested a lot of time and energy into."
I don't know if I will choose to stay with the game if I'm being forced to start over with a new character class (Warden) after investing three years of my play-time into my main (Templar). My game-time is limited. It would take me literally months, maybe even a full year, to get to state where I am now with my main. As much as I enjoy and even "love" the game, investing time in it becomes too risky if this is the way things are going to be in the future. Not to mention I do feel cheated, and it's not a positive/encouraging feeling at all:
"In this case it can and does appear the real reason for these changes are that you want to force people to buy Morrowind and play the Warden."

"As a consumer I was very excited to pre-order and play the Morrowind content and discover the new class. However, these drastic changes to the core game directly affecting PvE have completely unsettled me and created such uncertainty that it has now had the complete opposite affect on me."
I even arranged my summer holiday so that I could enjoy the first weeks of Morrowind. I was looking forward to it so much. But I was looking forward of experiencing the new content with my current main character. It's the Templar that has done all the achievements, questing, exploring etc this far. I wasn't looking forward grinding a Warden though. I would have made one eventually to test it, but I don't want to make a new main character after three years with the original one. Needless to say, I'm not looking forward to Morrowind anymore. Instead I'm thinking whether I should try a new MMO if I need to start over anyway and because I'm really disappointed how things have turned out with this game. (ESO has tought me that a MMO is a great hobby to have!)

"The entire environment is turning negative and causing a negative emotional state, which in turn is causing some players to not feel like even logging on, with some players saying they’re ‘off to play another game for a while’."
I am still logging on, because I want to say hi to my friends and play with them. But most people are making jokes and statements like: Better enjoy/do this now, because June will be here very soon etc. I don't know what to do while in-game atm. I won't try to collect any achievements with my main until I can be sure she will be effective/useful also after June. Farming gear doesn't seem very sensible either. For certain I won't spend any crowns until I know if I'm going to stay with the game or not.

There is this huge uncertainty hanging above our heads like some sort of "sword of Damokles". I have never witnessed enthusiasm turning sour this fast. I can't understand why any company that wants to sell their product and keep their customers happy would do this. I'm not saying ZoS isn't allowed to do this. Sure they are. But do they really count on people to stay "loyal" and suddenly just switch to Wardens and/or a totally different playstyle instead of possibly leaving the game? I haven't decided what to do yet. I guess I'm waiting to see how the patch notes will change. If the Templar nerfs go through, it's pretty likely I might just stop playing for now and maybe return if the class is restored at some point.

I want to have fun while playing. It is not fun to potentially loose this much character progression, useful/unique abilities etc. There should be another way to seek balance - or sell the expansion and Warden. This is just depressing and disappointing.

Shadeaux

I pretty much agree with most of this post...

My guild is expressing the exact sentiments that the OP is witnessing.

Froil

This is such a well thought out piece. I'm glad someone was able to address the problems and give some solutions to them.

I can understand that ZO$ was trying to balance the game for battlegrounds, preventing unkillable perma-block tanks and 1% to 100% BoL spam healbots, but in doing so it severely hurts PvE. A lot of dungeons and trials have DPS checks that will be harder to hit if your group is always out of resources.

angelncelestine

Shadeaux wrote: »

I pretty much agree with most of this post...

My guild is expressing the exact sentiments that the OP is witnessing.

I feel the same way you do right now :-(