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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
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100% Nightblade (Patch Notes)
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zuto40✭✭✭✭✭IcyDeadPeople wrote: »GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »The stealth damage modifier that is being removed is a nerf to an invisible mechanic nobody really knew about. There were a ton of rumours to what this mechanic really was. It amplified the initial strike from being in stealth by a significant margin. Some say 10% others say 50%.... all we know it was a boost of some sort. Some people also say for a duration of 0.5 seconds after striking, others say only for 1 source of damage. This bonus is more apparent on PvE monsters. Thats why you see 100k wrecking blow's from stealth and things like that.
This bonus is honestly negligible. It will hurt the players that spec'd more so into the "1shot" type of gameplay with heavy attacks/wrecking blow/onslaught/snipe. Any ganker who uses "combo's"... for example, heavy att>incap>light att>execute... will hardly even notice the damage loss. It will still be a loss on your initial hit but from a ganking perspective, you should not be killing someone in "1 hit" which was the issue. Using a full combo rotation executed perfectly while your opponent is to slow to break free is what ganking is about. Its about opportunity and all that... not really going to get into what ganking is because its not a favoured playstyle in any community in any game.
Interesting, and good point. I think the 100k wrecking blows and crazy onslaught numbers are using the massive flanking bonus, though, which if I understand correctly is not being removed.GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »I think what stealth truly needs to flourish is a way to return to "hidden" and not be stuck in combat for 5 minutes. If i engage on someone for example and it fails... if i escape and go behind a rock out of sight i should be able to go back into the "hidden" status and try again if i choose. This is what stealth gameplay lacks for classes outside of nightblade. Stealth needs to have more cat and mouse elements in it. Nightblades already do that pretty well but if any other class tries and fails.. well it takes ages to get outta combat. I know zos is looking into the in-combat status situation and i hope it gets resolved.
From your forum signature, I wonder if you have played ESO recently? Stealth mechanic was altered with Homestead patch so that everybody goes back into hidden state very quickly. Certainly this makes it much easier to gank on magicka DK at least.
.
what is this flanking bonus i keep hearing about?Stamblade- Legate
Tank/Heals Templar- Sergeant
Magic DK- Corporal
Stam DK- Sergeant
Stamplar- Corporal
YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCy8uqORxhlrMh8oz2230s9g0 -
t3hdubzy✭✭✭✭IcyDeadPeople wrote: »GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »The stealth damage modifier that is being removed is a nerf to an invisible mechanic nobody really knew about. There were a ton of rumours to what this mechanic really was. It amplified the initial strike from being in stealth by a significant margin. Some say 10% others say 50%.... all we know it was a boost of some sort. Some people also say for a duration of 0.5 seconds after striking, others say only for 1 source of damage. This bonus is more apparent on PvE monsters. Thats why you see 100k wrecking blow's from stealth and things like that.
This bonus is honestly negligible. It will hurt the players that spec'd more so into the "1shot" type of gameplay with heavy attacks/wrecking blow/onslaught/snipe. Any ganker who uses "combo's"... for example, heavy att>incap>light att>execute... will hardly even notice the damage loss. It will still be a loss on your initial hit but from a ganking perspective, you should not be killing someone in "1 hit" which was the issue. Using a full combo rotation executed perfectly while your opponent is to slow to break free is what ganking is about. Its about opportunity and all that... not really going to get into what ganking is because its not a favoured playstyle in any community in any game.
Interesting, and good point. I think the 100k wrecking blows and crazy onslaught numbers are using the massive flanking bonus, though, which if I understand correctly is not being removed.GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »I think what stealth truly needs to flourish is a way to return to "hidden" and not be stuck in combat for 5 minutes. If i engage on someone for example and it fails... if i escape and go behind a rock out of sight i should be able to go back into the "hidden" status and try again if i choose. This is what stealth gameplay lacks for classes outside of nightblade. Stealth needs to have more cat and mouse elements in it. Nightblades already do that pretty well but if any other class tries and fails.. well it takes ages to get outta combat. I know zos is looking into the in-combat status situation and i hope it gets resolved.
From your forum signature, I wonder if you have played ESO recently? Stealth mechanic was altered with Homestead patch so that everybody goes back into hidden state very quickly. Certainly this makes it much easier to gank on magicka DK at least.
.
what is this flanking bonus i keep hearing about?
Additional damage for attacking someone from behind0 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Has anyone confirmed if the nightblade passives and race passives are being nil, or are they talking about the world increase in damage from stealth?
Heres the patchnote for ya. Theres no numbers in the actual patchnote, so what this bonus actually was is still a mystery.
Developer Comments:Sneak attacks no longer grant a bonus to Critical Damage when used against other players. Sneak attacks will continue to guarantee a Critical Strike and stun the target, and will also still grant a bonus to Critical Damage when used against monsters.Even though Sneak attacks currently have a lower Critical Damage bonus against players than against monsters, they still allow you to burst another player down in a matter of seconds without granting them enough time to react. Removing the Critical Damage bonus against players grants victims of sneak attacks more counterplay.Edited by GreenSoup2HoT on April 21, 2017 12:15AMPS4 NA DC0 -
IcyDeadPeople✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IcyDeadPeople wrote: »GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »The stealth damage modifier that is being removed is a nerf to an invisible mechanic nobody really knew about. There were a ton of rumours to what this mechanic really was. It amplified the initial strike from being in stealth by a significant margin. Some say 10% others say 50%.... all we know it was a boost of some sort. Some people also say for a duration of 0.5 seconds after striking, others say only for 1 source of damage. This bonus is more apparent on PvE monsters. Thats why you see 100k wrecking blow's from stealth and things like that.
This bonus is honestly negligible. It will hurt the players that spec'd more so into the "1shot" type of gameplay with heavy attacks/wrecking blow/onslaught/snipe. Any ganker who uses "combo's"... for example, heavy att>incap>light att>execute... will hardly even notice the damage loss. It will still be a loss on your initial hit but from a ganking perspective, you should not be killing someone in "1 hit" which was the issue. Using a full combo rotation executed perfectly while your opponent is to slow to break free is what ganking is about. Its about opportunity and all that... not really going to get into what ganking is because its not a favoured playstyle in any community in any game.
Interesting, and good point. I think the 100k wrecking blows and crazy onslaught numbers are using the massive flanking bonus, though, which if I understand correctly is not being removed.GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »I think what stealth truly needs to flourish is a way to return to "hidden" and not be stuck in combat for 5 minutes. If i engage on someone for example and it fails... if i escape and go behind a rock out of sight i should be able to go back into the "hidden" status and try again if i choose. This is what stealth gameplay lacks for classes outside of nightblade. Stealth needs to have more cat and mouse elements in it. Nightblades already do that pretty well but if any other class tries and fails.. well it takes ages to get outta combat. I know zos is looking into the in-combat status situation and i hope it gets resolved.
From your forum signature, I wonder if you have played ESO recently? Stealth mechanic was altered with Homestead patch so that everybody goes back into hidden state very quickly. Certainly this makes it much easier to gank on magicka DK at least.
.
what is this flanking bonus i keep hearing about?
It's a large bonus to crit damage when attacking from stealth in a spot directly behind the target (outside their field of vision), around 200-300% modifier if I recall correctly. Also you can't be using cloak or invis potion, only works if you are crouching and not invisible.
Not sure exactly why, but it only works with certain attacks like flame whip, surprise attack, some weapon abilities like onslaught and dizzying swing. Pretty sure it doesn't work with fire staff heavy attack, or at least I haven't been able to do it yet.
.
Edited by IcyDeadPeople on April 21, 2017 12:14AM1 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IcyDeadPeople wrote: »IcyDeadPeople wrote: »GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »The stealth damage modifier that is being removed is a nerf to an invisible mechanic nobody really knew about. There were a ton of rumours to what this mechanic really was. It amplified the initial strike from being in stealth by a significant margin. Some say 10% others say 50%.... all we know it was a boost of some sort. Some people also say for a duration of 0.5 seconds after striking, others say only for 1 source of damage. This bonus is more apparent on PvE monsters. Thats why you see 100k wrecking blow's from stealth and things like that.
This bonus is honestly negligible. It will hurt the players that spec'd more so into the "1shot" type of gameplay with heavy attacks/wrecking blow/onslaught/snipe. Any ganker who uses "combo's"... for example, heavy att>incap>light att>execute... will hardly even notice the damage loss. It will still be a loss on your initial hit but from a ganking perspective, you should not be killing someone in "1 hit" which was the issue. Using a full combo rotation executed perfectly while your opponent is to slow to break free is what ganking is about. Its about opportunity and all that... not really going to get into what ganking is because its not a favoured playstyle in any community in any game.
Interesting, and good point. I think the 100k wrecking blows and crazy onslaught numbers are using the massive flanking bonus, though, which if I understand correctly is not being removed.GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »I think what stealth truly needs to flourish is a way to return to "hidden" and not be stuck in combat for 5 minutes. If i engage on someone for example and it fails... if i escape and go behind a rock out of sight i should be able to go back into the "hidden" status and try again if i choose. This is what stealth gameplay lacks for classes outside of nightblade. Stealth needs to have more cat and mouse elements in it. Nightblades already do that pretty well but if any other class tries and fails.. well it takes ages to get outta combat. I know zos is looking into the in-combat status situation and i hope it gets resolved.
From your forum signature, I wonder if you have played ESO recently? Stealth mechanic was altered with Homestead patch so that everybody goes back into hidden state very quickly. Certainly this makes it much easier to gank on magicka DK at least.
.
what is this flanking bonus i keep hearing about?
It's a large bonus to crit damage when attacking from stealth in a spot directly behind the target (outside their field of vision), around 200-300% if I recall correctly.
Not sure exactly why, but it only works with certain attack like flame whip, surprise attack, some weapon abilities like onslaught and wrecking blow. Pretty sure it doesn't work with heavy fire staff.
The flanking bonus is an actual gear set that just grants extra weapon damage while behind a target.
The set in spoiler.
PS4 NA DC0 -
IcyDeadPeople✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »IcyDeadPeople wrote: »IcyDeadPeople wrote: »GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »The stealth damage modifier that is being removed is a nerf to an invisible mechanic nobody really knew about. There were a ton of rumours to what this mechanic really was. It amplified the initial strike from being in stealth by a significant margin. Some say 10% others say 50%.... all we know it was a boost of some sort. Some people also say for a duration of 0.5 seconds after striking, others say only for 1 source of damage. This bonus is more apparent on PvE monsters. Thats why you see 100k wrecking blow's from stealth and things like that.
This bonus is honestly negligible. It will hurt the players that spec'd more so into the "1shot" type of gameplay with heavy attacks/wrecking blow/onslaught/snipe. Any ganker who uses "combo's"... for example, heavy att>incap>light att>execute... will hardly even notice the damage loss. It will still be a loss on your initial hit but from a ganking perspective, you should not be killing someone in "1 hit" which was the issue. Using a full combo rotation executed perfectly while your opponent is to slow to break free is what ganking is about. Its about opportunity and all that... not really going to get into what ganking is because its not a favoured playstyle in any community in any game.
Interesting, and good point. I think the 100k wrecking blows and crazy onslaught numbers are using the massive flanking bonus, though, which if I understand correctly is not being removed.GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »I think what stealth truly needs to flourish is a way to return to "hidden" and not be stuck in combat for 5 minutes. If i engage on someone for example and it fails... if i escape and go behind a rock out of sight i should be able to go back into the "hidden" status and try again if i choose. This is what stealth gameplay lacks for classes outside of nightblade. Stealth needs to have more cat and mouse elements in it. Nightblades already do that pretty well but if any other class tries and fails.. well it takes ages to get outta combat. I know zos is looking into the in-combat status situation and i hope it gets resolved.
From your forum signature, I wonder if you have played ESO recently? Stealth mechanic was altered with Homestead patch so that everybody goes back into hidden state very quickly. Certainly this makes it much easier to gank on magicka DK at least.
.
what is this flanking bonus i keep hearing about?
It's a large bonus to crit damage when attacking from stealth in a spot directly behind the target (outside their field of vision), around 200-300% if I recall correctly.
Not sure exactly why, but it only works with certain attack like flame whip, surprise attack, some weapon abilities like onslaught and wrecking blow. Pretty sure it doesn't work with heavy fire staff.
The flanking bonus is an actual gear set that just grants extra weapon damage while behind a target.
The set in spoiler.
That's an entirely different bonus from wearing the flanking gear.
This flanking sneak attack bonus crit damage does not require any special gear and is open to all classes. I'm not even sure if it is technically considered a crit, but it appears this way in combat log.Edited by IcyDeadPeople on April 21, 2017 12:17AM1 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IcyDeadPeople wrote: »GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »IcyDeadPeople wrote: »IcyDeadPeople wrote: »GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »The stealth damage modifier that is being removed is a nerf to an invisible mechanic nobody really knew about. There were a ton of rumours to what this mechanic really was. It amplified the initial strike from being in stealth by a significant margin. Some say 10% others say 50%.... all we know it was a boost of some sort. Some people also say for a duration of 0.5 seconds after striking, others say only for 1 source of damage. This bonus is more apparent on PvE monsters. Thats why you see 100k wrecking blow's from stealth and things like that.
This bonus is honestly negligible. It will hurt the players that spec'd more so into the "1shot" type of gameplay with heavy attacks/wrecking blow/onslaught/snipe. Any ganker who uses "combo's"... for example, heavy att>incap>light att>execute... will hardly even notice the damage loss. It will still be a loss on your initial hit but from a ganking perspective, you should not be killing someone in "1 hit" which was the issue. Using a full combo rotation executed perfectly while your opponent is to slow to break free is what ganking is about. Its about opportunity and all that... not really going to get into what ganking is because its not a favoured playstyle in any community in any game.
Interesting, and good point. I think the 100k wrecking blows and crazy onslaught numbers are using the massive flanking bonus, though, which if I understand correctly is not being removed.GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »I think what stealth truly needs to flourish is a way to return to "hidden" and not be stuck in combat for 5 minutes. If i engage on someone for example and it fails... if i escape and go behind a rock out of sight i should be able to go back into the "hidden" status and try again if i choose. This is what stealth gameplay lacks for classes outside of nightblade. Stealth needs to have more cat and mouse elements in it. Nightblades already do that pretty well but if any other class tries and fails.. well it takes ages to get outta combat. I know zos is looking into the in-combat status situation and i hope it gets resolved.
From your forum signature, I wonder if you have played ESO recently? Stealth mechanic was altered with Homestead patch so that everybody goes back into hidden state very quickly. Certainly this makes it much easier to gank on magicka DK at least.
.
what is this flanking bonus i keep hearing about?
It's a large bonus to crit damage when attacking from stealth in a spot directly behind the target (outside their field of vision), around 200-300% if I recall correctly.
Not sure exactly why, but it only works with certain attack like flame whip, surprise attack, some weapon abilities like onslaught and wrecking blow. Pretty sure it doesn't work with heavy fire staff.
The flanking bonus is an actual gear set that just grants extra weapon damage while behind a target.
The set in spoiler.
That's an entirely different bonus from wearing the flanking gear.
This flanking sneak attack bonus crit damage does not require any special gear and is open to all classes.
This bonus your referring to is the one were talking about in this thread no? The extra crit damage from initial stealth attacks?Edited by GreenSoup2HoT on April 21, 2017 12:21AMPS4 NA DC0 -
t3hdubzy✭✭✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »Has anyone confirmed if the nightblade passives and race passives are being nil, or are they talking about the world increase in damage from stealth?
Heres the patchnote for ya. Theres no numbers in the actual patchnote, so what this bonus actually was is still a mystery.
Developer Comments:Sneak attacks no longer grant a bonus to Critical Damage when used against other players. Sneak attacks will continue to guarantee a Critical Strike and stun the target, and will also still grant a bonus to Critical Damage when used against monsters.Even though Sneak attacks currently have a lower Critical Damage bonus against players than against monsters, they still allow you to burst another player down in a matter of seconds without granting them enough time to react. Removing the Critical Damage bonus against players grants victims of sneak attacks more counterplay.
It still doesnt specify, i have a hard time believeing that they would nerf racial and class passives as it gives an unfair advantage to all other classes in pvp unless.they replace it with something else.0 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »Has anyone confirmed if the nightblade passives and race passives are being nil, or are they talking about the world increase in damage from stealth?
Heres the patchnote for ya. Theres no numbers in the actual patchnote, so what this bonus actually was is still a mystery.
Developer Comments:Sneak attacks no longer grant a bonus to Critical Damage when used against other players. Sneak attacks will continue to guarantee a Critical Strike and stun the target, and will also still grant a bonus to Critical Damage when used against monsters.Even though Sneak attacks currently have a lower Critical Damage bonus against players than against monsters, they still allow you to burst another player down in a matter of seconds without granting them enough time to react. Removing the Critical Damage bonus against players grants victims of sneak attacks more counterplay.
It still doesnt specify, i have a hard time believeing that they would nerf racial and class passives as it gives an unfair advantage to all other classes in pvp unless.they replace it with something else.
ZOS i believe is taking away some critical damage modifier all sneak attacks had, regardless of passives that may grant more critical damage. Everywhere i look on the forums, i cannot find what this % modifier was or had been, like how i mentioned earlier.. the patch note doesn't even list the value.
Edited by GreenSoup2HoT on April 21, 2017 12:27AMPS4 NA DC0 -
mrdankles✭✭✭Stamblade is my main. Played since ps4 launch... I mean nbs suck bad as it is. I mean that's a little chunk of extra damage from stealth. Half the time
I'm lucky to even break 9k on anyone without incap. Too squishy to fight face to face without running heavy meta1 -
IcyDeadPeople✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It still doesnt specify, i have a hard time believeing that they would nerf racial and class passives as it gives an unfair advantage to all other classes in pvp unless.they replace it with something else.
I imagine any changes to racial and class passives would have been listed in the patch notes sections for that specific race and class.GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »IcyDeadPeople wrote: »GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »IcyDeadPeople wrote: »IcyDeadPeople wrote: »GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »The stealth damage modifier that is being removed is a nerf to an invisible mechanic nobody really knew about. There were a ton of rumours to what this mechanic really was. It amplified the initial strike from being in stealth by a significant margin. Some say 10% others say 50%.... all we know it was a boost of some sort. Some people also say for a duration of 0.5 seconds after striking, others say only for 1 source of damage. This bonus is more apparent on PvE monsters. Thats why you see 100k wrecking blow's from stealth and things like that.
This bonus is honestly negligible. It will hurt the players that spec'd more so into the "1shot" type of gameplay with heavy attacks/wrecking blow/onslaught/snipe. Any ganker who uses "combo's"... for example, heavy att>incap>light att>execute... will hardly even notice the damage loss. It will still be a loss on your initial hit but from a ganking perspective, you should not be killing someone in "1 hit" which was the issue. Using a full combo rotation executed perfectly while your opponent is to slow to break free is what ganking is about. Its about opportunity and all that... not really going to get into what ganking is because its not a favoured playstyle in any community in any game.
Interesting, and good point. I think the 100k wrecking blows and crazy onslaught numbers are using the massive flanking bonus, though, which if I understand correctly is not being removed.GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »I think what stealth truly needs to flourish is a way to return to "hidden" and not be stuck in combat for 5 minutes. If i engage on someone for example and it fails... if i escape and go behind a rock out of sight i should be able to go back into the "hidden" status and try again if i choose. This is what stealth gameplay lacks for classes outside of nightblade. Stealth needs to have more cat and mouse elements in it. Nightblades already do that pretty well but if any other class tries and fails.. well it takes ages to get outta combat. I know zos is looking into the in-combat status situation and i hope it gets resolved.
From your forum signature, I wonder if you have played ESO recently? Stealth mechanic was altered with Homestead patch so that everybody goes back into hidden state very quickly. Certainly this makes it much easier to gank on magicka DK at least.
.
what is this flanking bonus i keep hearing about?
It's a large bonus to crit damage when attacking from stealth in a spot directly behind the target (outside their field of vision), around 200-300% if I recall correctly.
Not sure exactly why, but it only works with certain attack like flame whip, surprise attack, some weapon abilities like onslaught and wrecking blow. Pretty sure it doesn't work with heavy fire staff.
The flanking bonus is an actual gear set that just grants extra weapon damage while behind a target.
The set in spoiler.
That's an entirely different bonus from wearing the flanking gear.
This flanking sneak attack bonus crit damage does not require any special gear and is open to all classes.
This bonus your referring to is the one were talking about in this thread no? The extra crit damage from initial stealth attacks?
According to @waitwhat it is a different sneak attack crit damage modifier that is being removed and the change does not remove the sneak flanking attack bonusIcyDeadPeople wrote: »
But is it all crit damage from stealth attacks or just the extra damage bonus from flanking attacks when you are directly behind the target?
Any bonus to critical damage provided by the bonus to crit damage from stealth will be removed. All crit damage from stealth attacks will suffer accordingly. The extra damage bonus from flanking attacks is not (as of yet) involved.
Edited by IcyDeadPeople on April 21, 2017 12:37AM0 -
zuto40✭✭✭✭✭IcyDeadPeople wrote: »GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »The stealth damage modifier that is being removed is a nerf to an invisible mechanic nobody really knew about. There were a ton of rumours to what this mechanic really was. It amplified the initial strike from being in stealth by a significant margin. Some say 10% others say 50%.... all we know it was a boost of some sort. Some people also say for a duration of 0.5 seconds after striking, others say only for 1 source of damage. This bonus is more apparent on PvE monsters. Thats why you see 100k wrecking blow's from stealth and things like that.
This bonus is honestly negligible. It will hurt the players that spec'd more so into the "1shot" type of gameplay with heavy attacks/wrecking blow/onslaught/snipe. Any ganker who uses "combo's"... for example, heavy att>incap>light att>execute... will hardly even notice the damage loss. It will still be a loss on your initial hit but from a ganking perspective, you should not be killing someone in "1 hit" which was the issue. Using a full combo rotation executed perfectly while your opponent is to slow to break free is what ganking is about. Its about opportunity and all that... not really going to get into what ganking is because its not a favoured playstyle in any community in any game.
Interesting, and good point. I think the 100k wrecking blows and crazy onslaught numbers are using the massive flanking bonus, though, which if I understand correctly is not being removed.GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »I think what stealth truly needs to flourish is a way to return to "hidden" and not be stuck in combat for 5 minutes. If i engage on someone for example and it fails... if i escape and go behind a rock out of sight i should be able to go back into the "hidden" status and try again if i choose. This is what stealth gameplay lacks for classes outside of nightblade. Stealth needs to have more cat and mouse elements in it. Nightblades already do that pretty well but if any other class tries and fails.. well it takes ages to get outta combat. I know zos is looking into the in-combat status situation and i hope it gets resolved.
From your forum signature, I wonder if you have played ESO recently? Stealth mechanic was altered with Homestead patch so that everybody goes back into hidden state very quickly. Certainly this makes it much easier to gank on magicka DK at least.
.
what is this flanking bonus i keep hearing about?
Additional damage for attacking someone from behind
how muchStamblade- Legate
Tank/Heals Templar- Sergeant
Magic DK- Corporal
Stam DK- Sergeant
Stamplar- Corporal
YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCy8uqORxhlrMh8oz2230s9g0 -
waitwhat✭✭✭✭✭IcyDeadPeople wrote: »It still doesnt specify, i have a hard time believeing that they would nerf racial and class passives as it gives an unfair advantage to all other classes in pvp unless.they replace it with something else.
I imagine any changes to racial and class passives would have been listed in the patch notes sections for that specific race and class.GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »IcyDeadPeople wrote: »GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »IcyDeadPeople wrote: »IcyDeadPeople wrote: »GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »The stealth damage modifier that is being removed is a nerf to an invisible mechanic nobody really knew about. There were a ton of rumours to what this mechanic really was. It amplified the initial strike from being in stealth by a significant margin. Some say 10% others say 50%.... all we know it was a boost of some sort. Some people also say for a duration of 0.5 seconds after striking, others say only for 1 source of damage. This bonus is more apparent on PvE monsters. Thats why you see 100k wrecking blow's from stealth and things like that.
This bonus is honestly negligible. It will hurt the players that spec'd more so into the "1shot" type of gameplay with heavy attacks/wrecking blow/onslaught/snipe. Any ganker who uses "combo's"... for example, heavy att>incap>light att>execute... will hardly even notice the damage loss. It will still be a loss on your initial hit but from a ganking perspective, you should not be killing someone in "1 hit" which was the issue. Using a full combo rotation executed perfectly while your opponent is to slow to break free is what ganking is about. Its about opportunity and all that... not really going to get into what ganking is because its not a favoured playstyle in any community in any game.
Interesting, and good point. I think the 100k wrecking blows and crazy onslaught numbers are using the massive flanking bonus, though, which if I understand correctly is not being removed.GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »I think what stealth truly needs to flourish is a way to return to "hidden" and not be stuck in combat for 5 minutes. If i engage on someone for example and it fails... if i escape and go behind a rock out of sight i should be able to go back into the "hidden" status and try again if i choose. This is what stealth gameplay lacks for classes outside of nightblade. Stealth needs to have more cat and mouse elements in it. Nightblades already do that pretty well but if any other class tries and fails.. well it takes ages to get outta combat. I know zos is looking into the in-combat status situation and i hope it gets resolved.
From your forum signature, I wonder if you have played ESO recently? Stealth mechanic was altered with Homestead patch so that everybody goes back into hidden state very quickly. Certainly this makes it much easier to gank on magicka DK at least.
.
what is this flanking bonus i keep hearing about?
It's a large bonus to crit damage when attacking from stealth in a spot directly behind the target (outside their field of vision), around 200-300% if I recall correctly.
Not sure exactly why, but it only works with certain attack like flame whip, surprise attack, some weapon abilities like onslaught and wrecking blow. Pretty sure it doesn't work with heavy fire staff.
The flanking bonus is an actual gear set that just grants extra weapon damage while behind a target.
The set in spoiler.
That's an entirely different bonus from wearing the flanking gear.
This flanking sneak attack bonus crit damage does not require any special gear and is open to all classes.
This bonus your referring to is the one were talking about in this thread no? The extra crit damage from initial stealth attacks?
According to @waitwhat it is a different sneak attack crit damage modifier that is being removed and the change does not remove the sneak flanking attack bonusIcyDeadPeople wrote: »
But is it all crit damage from stealth attacks or just the extra damage bonus from flanking attacks when you are directly behind the target?
Any bonus to critical damage provided by the bonus to crit damage from stealth will be removed. All crit damage from stealth attacks will suffer accordingly. The extra damage bonus from flanking attacks is not (as of yet) involved.
@IcyDeadPeople @GreenSoup2HoT
Yes the bonus we're talking about isn't the Stealthy racial passive, which increases damage done from stealth by 10%. The damage we're talking about is a global bonus to just critical damage when attacking from stealth. This damage bonus does not depend on the attacker's positioning vis-a-vis the target (i.e. flanked or no), but rather upon the eye indicator of the stealthed attacker (i.e. the mechanics that provide this critical guarantee and the extra damage are different from the critical guarantee provided by the cloak morph and the assassin tree passives; not all stealthed states are equivalent).
From the patch notes themselves:
"Sneak attacks no longer grant a bonus to Critical Damage when used against other players. Sneak attacks will continue to guarantee a Critical Strike and stun the target, and will also still grant a bonus to Critical Damage when used against monsters."
Again, it is a global bonus to critical damage, but we must note that the racial passive stealthy provides a bonus to all damage from stealth. Whether or not Stealthy--and for Khajiit, Carnage--provides a mitigation or suffers due to this change will largely depend upon the ganker's damage composition prior to the change. Those who stack critical damage, as perhaps many khajiit do, may find this change more difficult, but those who largely rely on high weapon damage and penetration may not see as much a change. If the latter group are not already bosmer or khajiit stamblades, they may find a race change to one of those races mitigation enough.
For the other walkers out there that do stack critical damage, and are looking for a way to adapt: try befoul. Healing reduction will be much more viable now, and with a shift away from weapon damage, we can probably afford to put more into health and resistance to make the fight last longer. Befoul won't let you one or two shot someone, but now we stamblades may be able to afford to sacrifice enough raw damage in favor of surviving to the fifth and sixth shots.PS4 NA AD ScourgeVivec Loading Screen Simulator 2017
Khajiit stamblade main - Walking the Two-Moons Path and robbing cute Breton boys.
Breton magplar vet Trial Healer - Promoting wellness through self-reflection.
Argonian Tripot DK Cyrodiil Tank - One with the Hist and guarding cute Breton boys.
Altmer magsorc PvE DPS - Scamp tramp and unrepentant lush.
"30s to eval"
"Read the ******* lorebook."1 -
waitwhat✭✭✭✭✭Also the absence of the modifier's number (the one being set to 0% per the notes) is frustrating, but perhaps they omitted it to lessen the blow (or they were just busy).
Anyway, let me see if I can find it. It'll be connected to general combat mechanics I think.PS4 NA AD ScourgeVivec Loading Screen Simulator 2017
Khajiit stamblade main - Walking the Two-Moons Path and robbing cute Breton boys.
Breton magplar vet Trial Healer - Promoting wellness through self-reflection.
Argonian Tripot DK Cyrodiil Tank - One with the Hist and guarding cute Breton boys.
Altmer magsorc PvE DPS - Scamp tramp and unrepentant lush.
"30s to eval"
"Read the ******* lorebook."1 -
scorpiodog✭✭✭✭✭My primary is a Stamblade and she used to be a wood elf until I realized the damage bonus from sneak was pretty worthless except in a few special circumstances. Sure I could 1-shot from sneak the first thing I hit or severely damage them but then you are out of sneak and the bonus doesn't apply for the rest of the combat. Constantly going into crouch was a pain in the rear and impractical stamina-wise unless you are a vampire - which adds a whole other list of problems just to be able to stay in sneak to get the damage bonus against one opponent.
Basically I race changed and my Stamblade is more powerful overall now that I don't rely on the wood elf sneak damage bonus.
I'm also not entirely sure if the Racial damage bonus stacks on the NB class bonus. My damage now on my imperial from sneak is way higher than on my wood elf was. Same build and same skills and playstyle but somehow my wood elf was still weaker despite the supposed additional 10% damage bonus from sneak.0 -
waitwhat✭✭✭✭✭@IcyDeadPeople @GreenSoup2HoT @t3hdubzy
Put the word out to search for the modifier Gina's talking about. I can't find documentation on it.
To be specific: we're looking for a modifier that increases critical damage from stealth, but that also already operates differently against players than it does against monsters, per the developer comments.
Given that the modifier already operates differently (i.e. it's lower) against players, I think we can rule out changes to the Hemorrage passive and the Shadow mundus, which would both actually be disastrous for us.
We might find the answer to what this exact modifier is in some of the 2015, or perhaps early 2016 patch notes, assuming that the modifier was ever introduced or changed after game release.
This whole discussion brings to mind an important point: Until we know exactly what this modifier is (and confirm what it isn't), we really don't know how impactful this change will be. On one hand, it could be awful (i.e. a change to Hemorrage that harms nightblades wrongly), or it could be some 5% modifier that's already multiplicatively applied in the beginning or middle of the huge crit damage calculation formula in Cyrodiil.
We might have a red herring on our hands.PS4 NA AD ScourgeVivec Loading Screen Simulator 2017
Khajiit stamblade main - Walking the Two-Moons Path and robbing cute Breton boys.
Breton magplar vet Trial Healer - Promoting wellness through self-reflection.
Argonian Tripot DK Cyrodiil Tank - One with the Hist and guarding cute Breton boys.
Altmer magsorc PvE DPS - Scamp tramp and unrepentant lush.
"30s to eval"
"Read the ******* lorebook."0 -
Orbital✭✭✭Theoldsalem wrote: »Yea ive did the math and I'll be losing about 7500 on my soul teather from stealth. I love this game but if they nerf crit damage from stealth and nerf the speed while in stealth i will unsubscribe and find another game. Im tired of having to change my playstyle and re gold my gear every patch
MMO's change every patch mate! its how they keep it fresh so to speak
annoying i know but what else we gonna do? pick flowers?Axphykz.
Tank
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They did not remove the sneak attack critical attacks. They still guarantee a crit. It was the bonus damage that was removed.
So, why is that bonus damage so important to you? Is it so you can one shot someone before they even know you are there?
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geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭reading through this thread at work...reminds me a bit of being back in high school stuck in class and having sex on your mind the whole time...
a good bit older now, sitting at my desk - and, I now have nightblades on my mind while trying to process paperwork and compose emails
PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »IcyDeadPeople wrote: »IcyDeadPeople wrote: »GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »The stealth damage modifier that is being removed is a nerf to an invisible mechanic nobody really knew about. There were a ton of rumours to what this mechanic really was. It amplified the initial strike from being in stealth by a significant margin. Some say 10% others say 50%.... all we know it was a boost of some sort. Some people also say for a duration of 0.5 seconds after striking, others say only for 1 source of damage. This bonus is more apparent on PvE monsters. Thats why you see 100k wrecking blow's from stealth and things like that.
This bonus is honestly negligible. It will hurt the players that spec'd more so into the "1shot" type of gameplay with heavy attacks/wrecking blow/onslaught/snipe. Any ganker who uses "combo's"... for example, heavy att>incap>light att>execute... will hardly even notice the damage loss. It will still be a loss on your initial hit but from a ganking perspective, you should not be killing someone in "1 hit" which was the issue. Using a full combo rotation executed perfectly while your opponent is to slow to break free is what ganking is about. Its about opportunity and all that... not really going to get into what ganking is because its not a favoured playstyle in any community in any game.
Interesting, and good point. I think the 100k wrecking blows and crazy onslaught numbers are using the massive flanking bonus, though, which if I understand correctly is not being removed.GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »I think what stealth truly needs to flourish is a way to return to "hidden" and not be stuck in combat for 5 minutes. If i engage on someone for example and it fails... if i escape and go behind a rock out of sight i should be able to go back into the "hidden" status and try again if i choose. This is what stealth gameplay lacks for classes outside of nightblade. Stealth needs to have more cat and mouse elements in it. Nightblades already do that pretty well but if any other class tries and fails.. well it takes ages to get outta combat. I know zos is looking into the in-combat status situation and i hope it gets resolved.
From your forum signature, I wonder if you have played ESO recently? Stealth mechanic was altered with Homestead patch so that everybody goes back into hidden state very quickly. Certainly this makes it much easier to gank on magicka DK at least.
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what is this flanking bonus i keep hearing about?
It's a large bonus to crit damage when attacking from stealth in a spot directly behind the target (outside their field of vision), around 200-300% if I recall correctly.
Not sure exactly why, but it only works with certain attack like flame whip, surprise attack, some weapon abilities like onslaught and wrecking blow. Pretty sure it doesn't work with heavy fire staff.
The flanking bonus is an actual gear set that just grants extra weapon damage while behind a target.
The set in spoiler.
No, there's at least three modifiers that apply during a sneak attack.
Are you in stealth when you launch the attack? (Yes/No)
Are you behind the target when you launch the attack? (Yes/No)
Is the target in combat? (Yes/No)
If the target is not in combat, (for example, they'll show up as an eligible Blade of Woe target if you have the passive and they're a humanoid NPC) then you get an additional damage bonus. That is what no one's quite sure about, it is also (probably) what's going away when you hit another player.
Hitting from behind while in stealth has a damage bonus. I want to say this is the rear 180 degrees, but I could be wrong. This is (to the best of my knowledge) staying. I have no idea what the modifier actually is. It's also possible the arc is different for players as opposed to PvE mobs, I don't generally engage like this in PvP, so I don't have this info internalized in the same way.
If you're in stealth, some of the passives related to attacking from stealth will apply (no, I don't know which ones off hand), for example, vampire feeding only requires you're in stealth. You can trigger this state with cloak, or any other invisibility effect. Some passives actually cue off the target being in combat. I want to say this includes the wood elf bonus, but I'm not 100% certain. I want to say the nightblade "from stealth" abilities cue off of this, but I suspect some of them are actually cuing off of the target being in combat.1 -
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The extra critical dmg from sneak is only on the opening shot, aka the gankmove. While in open combat you really wont feel this "nerf". And I support this because getting ganked mid fight or while not suspecting it for 15k snipes etc just isnt fun.
Nightblades is more then just fighting from stealth imo, what we need more is ways to survive/sustain our health (stamblade) and getting better healing would help that issue, if we got minor mending
Love the idea, but minor mending is not very nightblady (it's a word!).
I would prefer more access to life-steal, or whatever it's called to siphon health from my enemies. That's what I rolled a nightblade for.1 -
Glamdring✭✭✭✭✭
MMO's change every patch mate! its how they keep it fresh so to speak
annoying i know but what else we gonna do? pick flowers?
Ofc they change, but removing things from a class that is signature skills/abilitys. things that made you choose the class in the first place is nothing i can just let go. I choosed nightblade for the assassin gameplay. We live in the shadows, we hit hard and dissapear. We choose our victims carefully and always make sure we can retreat, because if we fail and are caught in open world its almost certain death.
What ZoS is doing now, not just for nightblades is killing the uniquness of each class by removing our class strengths. I invested countless hours into my nightblade because i love the playstyle and now bit by bit im forced to play in a way i dont enjoy. And we all play games to enjoy ourselfs arent we?
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The extra critical dmg from sneak is only on the opening shot, aka the gankmove. While in open combat you really wont feel this "nerf". And I support this because getting ganked mid fight or while not suspecting it for 15k snipes etc just isnt fun.
Nightblades is more then just fighting from stealth imo, what we need more is ways to survive/sustain our health (stamblade) and getting better healing would help that issue, if we got minor mending
Swallow Soul already has a stacking mending effect...0 -
QuebraRegra✭✭✭✭✭
✭Honestly, I don't understand why they keep punishing NB. I don't really play mine other than stealthy stuff for fun, but they seem to get beat up every patch, my main is(was) a healing Templar and I still say the NB stuff was too much.
because ZOS is still overreacting to the crying about NBs from years ago...0 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Y'all are talking about pvp stamblades.
What about pve magblades? Siphoning has been gutted.
I have to spend stamina to gain stamina?
They admit it's a significant reduction to resource restore. I have health restore via all my leeching skills I need siphoning to give me resources not health.* Siphoning
* Leeching Strikes (Siphoning Strikes morph): This morph now converts the ability into a Stamina ability and causes your Light and Heavy Attacks to restore Stamina based on your character level.
* Siphoning Attacks (Siphoning Strikes morph): This morph now causes your Light and Heavy Attacks to also restore Magicka based on your character level.
* Siphoning Strikes:
* This ability now causes your Light and Heavy Attacks to restore Health instead of Magicka or Stamina.
* Increased the duration of this ability and its morphs to 20 seconds from 15 seconds.
Developer Comments: Spoiler
This is a significant reduction to the Magicka and Stamina restored by these abilities, but the addition of Health restore should give Nightblades more healing to improve their survivability.Edited by max_only on April 23, 2017 6:54PM#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom0 -
PlagueSD✭✭✭✭✭
✭scorpiodog wrote: »Constantly going into crouch was a pain in the rear and impractical stamina-wise unless you are a vampire - which adds a whole other list of problems just to be able to stay in sneak to get the damage bonus against one opponent.
Then you're sneaking wrong. Get 5pc Night's Silence set and you can sneak at full speed. put "well fitted" on 2 or 3 pieces and you won't have stamina problems sneaking. Got me through the Thief and Dark Brotherhood quest line with ease.1 -
QuebraRegra✭✭✭✭✭
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[/quote]
what is this flanking bonus i keep hearing about?[/quote]
It's a large bonus to crit damage when attacking from stealth in a spot directly behind the target (outside their field of vision), around 200-300% if I recall correctly.
Not sure exactly why, but it only works with certain attack like flame whip, surprise attack, some weapon abilities like onslaught and wrecking blow. Pretty sure it doesn't work with heavy fire staff.
[/quote]
The flanking bonus is an actual gear set that just grants extra weapon damage while behind a target.
The set in spoiler.[/quote]
UNTRUE.
The flanking bonus has been in the game loooong before there was ever a set to boost it further. It has always been a game basic mechanic since the very beginning.1
