Love these changes

ArgoCye

Thanks ZoS. This game was becoming a simple, button-mash as a result of unlimited resources and unlimited damage mitigation. Power creep had to be addressed and you have addressed it well. Ignore the complaints. Like all balancing, the good players will remain good players and the bad players will become worse. Totally fine with that.

SirMewser

ArgoCye wrote: »

Thanks ZoS. This game was becoming a simple, button-mash as a result of unlimited resources and unlimited damage mitigation. Power creep had to be addressed and you have addressed it well. Ignore the complaints. Like all balancing, the good players will remain good players and the bad players will become worse. Totally fine with that.

The game was getting very boring/easy, these changes will force players to put points into resource management which means item sets that don't provide full DPS benefits will become more necessary.

Was running 63K max magic, 3K spell damage, CP system and armor passives was my effortless sources of sustain, how silly.

That's right, I am okay with my setup getting nerfed.

F7sus4

ArgoCye wrote: »

Thanks ZoS. This game was becoming a simple, button-mash as a result of unlimited resources and unlimited damage mitigation. Power creep had to be addressed and you have addressed it well. Ignore the complaints. Like all balancing, the good players will remain good players and the bad players will become worse. Totally fine with that.

With the incoming heavy-attack meta you won't be smashing 1 button but holding 1 mouse-button instead. There's a similar difference between 1 dollar and 100 cents.

Drummerx04

SirMewser wrote: »

ArgoCye wrote: »

Thanks ZoS. This game was becoming a simple, button-mash as a result of unlimited resources and unlimited damage mitigation. Power creep had to be addressed and you have addressed it well. Ignore the complaints. Like all balancing, the good players will remain good players and the bad players will become worse. Totally fine with that.

The game was getting very boring/easy, these changes will force players to put points into resource management which means item sets that don't provide full DPS benefits will become more necessary.

Was running 63K max magic, 3K spell damage, CP system and armor passives was my effortless sources of sustain, how silly.

That's right, I am okay with my setup getting nerfed.

63k with 3k spell damage? I'm wearing necro, full mag everything enchants, bound aegis, inner light, meteor, and a master staff... and I have 55k... could probably push it up another 2 k with two 1 piece monster sets and getting a set with 2-3 piece max mag instead of just 2 piece. I guess I could take the mage stone for another 2k, but still...

Oh, and I only have 2k spell damage.

What the hell are you wearing?

Xvorg

Drummerx04 wrote: »

SirMewser wrote: »

ArgoCye wrote: »

Thanks ZoS. This game was becoming a simple, button-mash as a result of unlimited resources and unlimited damage mitigation. Power creep had to be addressed and you have addressed it well. Ignore the complaints. Like all balancing, the good players will remain good players and the bad players will become worse. Totally fine with that.

The game was getting very boring/easy, these changes will force players to put points into resource management which means item sets that don't provide full DPS benefits will become more necessary.

Was running 63K max magic, 3K spell damage, CP system and armor passives was my effortless sources of sustain, how silly.

That's right, I am okay with my setup getting nerfed.

63k with 3k spell damage? I'm wearing necro, full mag everything enchants, bound aegis, inner light, meteor, and a master staff... and I have 55k... could probably push it up another 2 k with two 1 piece monster sets and getting a set with 2-3 piece max mag instead of just 2 piece. I guess I could take the mage stone for another 2k, but still...

Oh, and I only have 2k spell damage.

What the hell are you wearing?

Cheat Engine... maybe

Strider_Roshin

Oh I love these changes as well. I have an issue with Siphoning Strikes, but overall it's a fantastic patch!

Zarrakon

SirMewser wrote: »

ArgoCye wrote: »

Thanks ZoS. This game was becoming a simple, button-mash as a result of unlimited resources and unlimited damage mitigation. Power creep had to be addressed and you have addressed it well. Ignore the complaints. Like all balancing, the good players will remain good players and the bad players will become worse. Totally fine with that.

The game was getting very boring/easy, these changes will force players to put points into resource management which means item sets that don't provide full DPS benefits will become more necessary.

Was running 63K max magic, 3K spell damage, CP system and armor passives was my effortless sources of sustain, how silly.

That's right, I am okay with my setup getting nerfed.

No, you were not running 63k max magicka and 3k spell damage, unless you're looking at your screen with a bar stacked with mages guild abilities buffed with warhorn and aegis, or you were an emperor at the time, or had an abysmal (<40%) crit chance, or used food with no health bonus, or some combination of these.

wimhwimladimf

SirMewser wrote: »

ArgoCye wrote: »

Thanks ZoS. This game was becoming a simple, button-mash as a result of unlimited resources and unlimited damage mitigation. Power creep had to be addressed and you have addressed it well. Ignore the complaints. Like all balancing, the good players will remain good players and the bad players will become worse. Totally fine with that.

The game was getting very boring/easy, these changes will force players to put points into resource management which means item sets that don't provide full DPS benefits will become more necessary.

Was running 63K max magic, 3K spell damage, CP system and armor passives was my effortless sources of sustain, how silly.

That's right, I am okay with my setup getting nerfed.

You look at it only from end game point of view. Try to think about players who aren't even lvl50 and believe me, even with full MP passive and all Light Armor parts you will still have mana problems.

Turelus

wimhwimladimf wrote: »

SirMewser wrote: »

ArgoCye wrote: »

Thanks ZoS. This game was becoming a simple, button-mash as a result of unlimited resources and unlimited damage mitigation. Power creep had to be addressed and you have addressed it well. Ignore the complaints. Like all balancing, the good players will remain good players and the bad players will become worse. Totally fine with that.

The game was getting very boring/easy, these changes will force players to put points into resource management which means item sets that don't provide full DPS benefits will become more necessary.

Was running 63K max magic, 3K spell damage, CP system and armor passives was my effortless sources of sustain, how silly.

That's right, I am okay with my setup getting nerfed.

You look at it only from end game point of view. Try to think about players who aren't even lvl50 and believe me, even with full MP passive and all Light Armor parts you will still have mana problems.

But I thought players were not viable for any content until they were CP600 (soon CP630) that's what all the forums posts keep telling me.

Beardimus

I agree, things had got silly. making everything a bit harder, means more content to keep the top end happy.
Shaking up the status quo is a good thing - BUT you are right, the good players will still be the good players, its all relative.

Ocelot9x

Yeah a lot of zerglings will be happy after this patch (: how can you think that those changes will get skill back in game? Good luck doing 1vX and small scaling after this s***t,but I guess people here just zergs...

Pallio

Make believe stats, based on an imaginary awesome sorc. People who don't play a Sorc, sure think they are great.

The grass is always green, chance that dream!

Dracane

On the first glance, it looks like damage was heavily buffed. You can gain so much more damage from Cp now, it's unreal.
You only need to invest 50 into your major trees and will gain a huge bonus. I for example spent 50 into elemental expert and 50 into master at arms and 50 into spell erosion.

I now have 29% more damage to my crystal shard as opposed to 25% on the live server. On live, i had no points left for spell erosion at all. Now I get 3900 spell penetration as well and my light and heavy attacks are even better, they gain another 15% on top. I feel buffed and am happy about it (remember that this applies to everyone and any class, so everyone should be dealing much more damage) Well, this is for pve though. In pvp, everyone will have 50% into Iroclad and this will reduce incoming damage by way more than we gain.

The sustain part however is pretty disgusting. Though I think, applying one cost reduction glyph to my yewelry, should keep me on a compareable level of sustain as I have on live.

clocksstoppe

Yeah, thanks ZOS, now only sorcs will have the privilege of one button mash. Great class balance..

Dracane

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Yeah, thanks ZOS, now only sorcs will have the privilege of one button mash. Great class balance..

Nothing changes. These Cp changes actually favor Nightblades the most, if anything. But really everyone profits equally from them.

SirMewser

wimhwimladimf wrote: »

SirMewser wrote: »

ArgoCye wrote: »

Thanks ZoS. This game was becoming a simple, button-mash as a result of unlimited resources and unlimited damage mitigation. Power creep had to be addressed and you have addressed it well. Ignore the complaints. Like all balancing, the good players will remain good players and the bad players will become worse. Totally fine with that.

The game was getting very boring/easy, these changes will force players to put points into resource management which means item sets that don't provide full DPS benefits will become more necessary.

Was running 63K max magic, 3K spell damage, CP system and armor passives was my effortless sources of sustain, how silly.

That's right, I am okay with my setup getting nerfed.

You look at it only from end game point of view. Try to think about players who aren't even lvl50 and believe me, even with full MP passive and all Light Armor parts you will still have mana problems.

Well that's quite the adorable assumption.

This is PTS, where ZoS refers to their goal "raise the floor and lower the ceiling" motto, the CP system is for end-game players only, this isn't even applicable to new players (but not limited to new characters) so this is not of relevance, therefore, the statement made was implied to those who benefit from the CP system as that has received major changes (discussing it is appropriate because that is what PTS is for).

The only thing new players are getting in terms of the sustainability reduction is the modifications to armor passives on PTS.

That is the contextual comprehension given the patch notes, not legitimate testing as this would be a breach of the non-disclosure agreement (NDA) of the PTS server.

As of live, the CP system can sustain players' resources without them having to allocate any sustainability from other resources, this is very apparent in dungeon runs when other effects such as; procs, magicka steal, and other effects are active, therefore, allowing people to maximize resources with little sacrificial decisions.

This change is unarguably good for new players as this will lessen the margin between new and min/maxing players.

Using yourself as an example is just bias as we are all blind-slighted to ourselves and cannot account all others' experiences and state as your statement suggests using terms like "...you will still have mana problems" as if this is an interpersonal conversation, having said that, there is no deny that new players are not suffering from some sort of sustain problem.

Also consider new players are ignorant of what is available and are still learning as this has nothing to do with "sustain" itself but a development process of the players' awareness of the game's mechanical attributes.

You're welcome.

Mihael

SirMewser wrote: »

wimhwimladimf wrote: »

SirMewser wrote: »

ArgoCye wrote: »

Thanks ZoS. This game was becoming a simple, button-mash as a result of unlimited resources and unlimited damage mitigation. Power creep had to be addressed and you have addressed it well. Ignore the complaints. Like all balancing, the good players will remain good players and the bad players will become worse. Totally fine with that.

The game was getting very boring/easy, these changes will force players to put points into resource management which means item sets that don't provide full DPS benefits will become more necessary.

Was running 63K max magic, 3K spell damage, CP system and armor passives was my effortless sources of sustain, how silly.

That's right, I am okay with my setup getting nerfed.

You look at it only from end game point of view. Try to think about players who aren't even lvl50 and believe me, even with full MP passive and all Light Armor parts you will still have mana problems.

Well that's quite the adorable assumption.

This is PTS, where ZoS refers to their goal "raise the floor and lower the ceiling" motto, the CP system is for end-game players only, this isn't even applicable to new players (but not limited to new characters) so this is not of relevance, therefore, the statement made was implied to those who benefit from the CP system as that has received major changes (discussing it is appropriate because that is what PTS is for).

The only thing new players are getting in terms of the sustainability reduction is the modifications to armor passives on PTS.

That is the contextual comprehension given the patch notes, not legitimate testing as this would be a breach of the non-disclosure agreement (NDA) of the PTS server.

As of live, the CP system can sustain players' resources without them having to allocate any sustainability from other resources, this is very apparent in dungeon runs when other effects such as; procs, magicka steal, and other effects are active, therefore, allowing people to maximize resources with little sacrificial decisions.

This change is unarguably good for new players as this will lessen the margin between new and min/maxing players.

Using yourself as an example is just bias as we are all blind-slighted to ourselves and cannot account all others' experiences and state as your statement suggests using terms like "...you will still have mana problems" as if this is an interpersonal conversation, having said that, there is no deny that new players are not suffering from some sort of sustain problem.

Also consider new players are ignorant of what is available and are still learning as this has nothing to do with "sustain" itself but a development process of the players' awareness of the game's mechanical attributes.

You're welcome.

New players or people who play no cp pvp are not just getting the armor nerf but also the increase cost to all stamina abilities and if they are dks they also got battle roar and helping hands sustain nerf plus if they are resguarda they might as well rave change

SirMewser

As for people requesting to know what my setup is, I am willing to share it as it will be dropped with the changes being made to the game when it hits live, to adjust.

Race: Altmer (Max magic 10% gives about 5k max magic, magic regain is nice, and the elemental damage is a good multiplier).
Boon: The Mage (Pets scale to max magic, spell damage was nice, however, this increases all aspects including ward strength, divines improve this, and magic multipliers bring this up-to but not limit to approximately 3k max magic).

Gear;
[Maw of the Infernal](x2); medium infused max magic enchanted helmet, heavy divine shoulders (for 6% max resource from undaunted passive for wearing one of each armor type, the weights on these are good as they are the most resistance potent pieces of armor), the daedroth benefits from the; crushing enchant, minor vulnerability, major breach, and major fracture that this build provides.

[Necropotence](x5); Infused; legs, and shirt. Divine; belt, shoes, and gloves (infused on potent enchanting pieces of armor has an overhaul greater max magic value opposed to divines, but not when applied to lesser pieces).

[Grace of the Ancients](x3); Jewelry, arcane, spell damage enchant (the 4% max magic 3 piece bonus is approximately 1.8k).

[Willpower](x2); Defending powered sword (I will swap this to an infused prismatic onslaught in pvp IC sometimes, or hardening sword based on what I am doing), with an infused magic enchanted shield (total max magic is ~4k, hence, the first bonus is more potent than any other 2 piece max magic bonus and on an enchanted shield), I use shields because heavy attack weaving sustains stamina, allowing me to keep CC breaking against groups of players and block more in dungeons, the extra enchant, trait, and bonus piece helps.

[Endurance](x2); Infused sword of crushing (I use piece armor to apply a total ~7100 penetration in one press, because enchantments don't have a universal cooldown and carry over to front-bar I can proc the other enchant right away, this adds very nicely with the pets as they deal more damage and stacks well with vulnerability (8% more damage) which pet's shock damage applies), the shield is infused max health (when I swap to backbar, I have less max magic of course, so I do not stay on this bar very long, just to apply debuffs. The reason why I use endurance is that I get ~3K max health, if I get healed while on this bar, player's will generate ultimate (support) and I can take up-to ~3k damage that will disappear when I swap back to my main-bar, as if the health never existed for the damage to apply).

I have another infused endurance sword enchanted with weakening for when I use deep-slash in pvp to reduce other's outputted damage further, the snare is nice against groups when I solo because it ensures the scamp's damage and they can't run away as easily.

Front-bar;
1/Bound armor
2/Inner Light
3/Empowered Ward
4/Volatile Scamp (I hate calling it a familiar)
5/Twilight Matriarch
U/Shooting Star (Sometimes I use Barrier)

Back-bar;
1/Bound Armor
2/Pierce Armor / Deep-Slash
3/Daedric Prey
4/Volatile Scamp
5/Twilight Matriarch
U/Greater Storm Atronach

I could use a boss helmet with max magic as 2nd bonus for even more as Maw of the Infernal provides health, however, I have a duo buddy who synergizes with my build quite well and uses war-horn so I jump to 67k max magic at times, plus I love the daedroth.

CP allocation is;
[Warrior];
[/Lord/Bastion]:100 in stronger barriers,
[/Lady/Hardy]:50 in physical damage mitigation,
[/Lady/Elemental Defender]:40 in spell damage mitigation,
[/Lady/Thick Skinned]:10 in DoT damage mitigation.

[Mage];
[/Apprentice/Elemental Expert]:100 elemental damage,
[/Apprentice/Elfborn]:70 in spell critical damage bonus,
[/Apprentice/Blessed]:30 in stronger heals.

[Thief];
[/Lover/Arcanist]:100 in magic recovery,
[/Lover/Tenacity]:20 in recovery for heavy attacking,
[/Tower/Magician]:50 in spell cost reduction,
[/Shadow/Shadow Ward]:30 in block cost reduction.

Also a vampire.

SirMewser

Mihael wrote: »

SirMewser wrote: »

wimhwimladimf wrote: »

SirMewser wrote: »

ArgoCye wrote: »

Thanks ZoS. This game was becoming a simple, button-mash as a result of unlimited resources and unlimited damage mitigation. Power creep had to be addressed and you have addressed it well. Ignore the complaints. Like all balancing, the good players will remain good players and the bad players will become worse. Totally fine with that.

The game was getting very boring/easy, these changes will force players to put points into resource management which means item sets that don't provide full DPS benefits will become more necessary.

Was running 63K max magic, 3K spell damage, CP system and armor passives was my effortless sources of sustain, how silly.

That's right, I am okay with my setup getting nerfed.

You look at it only from end game point of view. Try to think about players who aren't even lvl50 and believe me, even with full MP passive and all Light Armor parts you will still have mana problems.

Well that's quite the adorable assumption.

This is PTS, where ZoS refers to their goal "raise the floor and lower the ceiling" motto, the CP system is for end-game players only, this isn't even applicable to new players (but not limited to new characters) so this is not of relevance, therefore, the statement made was implied to those who benefit from the CP system as that has received major changes (discussing it is appropriate because that is what PTS is for).

The only thing new players are getting in terms of the sustainability reduction is the modifications to armor passives on PTS.

That is the contextual comprehension given the patch notes, not legitimate testing as this would be a breach of the non-disclosure agreement (NDA) of the PTS server.

As of live, the CP system can sustain players' resources without them having to allocate any sustainability from other resources, this is very apparent in dungeon runs when other effects such as; procs, magicka steal, and other effects are active, therefore, allowing people to maximize resources with little sacrificial decisions.

This change is unarguably good for new players as this will lessen the margin between new and min/maxing players.

Using yourself as an example is just bias as we are all blind-slighted to ourselves and cannot account all others' experiences and state as your statement suggests using terms like "...you will still have mana problems" as if this is an interpersonal conversation, having said that, there is no deny that new players are not suffering from some sort of sustain problem.

Also consider new players are ignorant of what is available and are still learning as this has nothing to do with "sustain" itself but a development process of the players' awareness of the game's mechanical attributes.

You're welcome.

New players or people who play no cp pvp are not just getting the armor nerf but also the increase cost to all stamina abilities and if they are dks they also got battle roar and helping hands sustain nerf plus if they are resguarda they might as well rave change

[Non-repudiation]: "Using yourself as an example is just bias as we are all blind-slighted to ourselves and cannot account all others' experiences and state as your statement suggests using terms like "...you will still have mana problems" as if this is an interpersonal conversation, having said that, there is no deny that new players are not suffering from some sort of sustain problem."

If you care so much, make a discussion, but don't go around trying to imply that people said/believe something by putting it down their throat because quite honesty, I don't care, I can't resolve your problem, I only know that the issue does exist for some players. I am fine with the subject derailing itself a little, but way to give me the middle-finger and not read/care what you quoted on.

Tasear

I like people will be forced to work together, use synergies and less brute Force. It was getting boring.

Arenguros

I fully agree.

These were (almost) the changes we were hoping for:
Ressource management will (hopefully) play a role again and static rotations will be gone.
Hard content should be actually hard, not just require 600CP and max gear.