Undaunted Academy

Zyrudin

I have been thinking about an idea that @zaria brought up on a thread and believe it might be worth a shot, at least to discuss and bring it to ZOS' consideration.

The Undaunted Academy would be located in each of the alliance's capitals (or at least accessible from there) and completing each level would be a requirement to enter Veteran Group Dungeons and to use Group Finder for a certain level of Veteran dungeon. Normal dungeons would be accessible to all still.

It would have a Tank instructor, Healer instructor and two DD instructors (one stam-based, another magicka-based), to show tutorials, offer practice on certain moves and types of skill and then, at the end of the "course", run a small practice dungeon alongside the other instructor NPC's to use the taught material.

Level 1 of this academy would teach the real basics (block, dodge, buff, debuff, etc) and would allow you to access the tier 1 dungeons.
Level 2 would go further and address rotations, conjugations of skills, synergy importance, gear, etc, and would allow access to tier 2.
Level 3 would be all about working in a group, applying the knowledge of the previous two levels, and that would allow access to tier 3.

This is only an outline of an idea for us to discuss, so do go ahead and bring your own thoughts on the matter to this thread, for ZOS to consider.

James-Wayne

I've mentioned a tutorial for dungeons since Beta 2014.... Still not here.

NewBlacksmurf

Naaah it's not what many of you think.

People have no desire to play any restricted trinity roles and a tutorial isn't going to resolve what ppl don't want to do in the first place.

Nerfs and restrictions are not what ppl want to spend their free time with and this stuff adds to frustrations.
If the game is going to use the trinity, then it needs to be enforced and enhanced. That's where your idea makes sense.

If the trinity is not going to exist, then all these references need to be removed and that actually allows balance to take place. Then it's a flip of PvP and PvE skills.

The other thing is undaunted quests should be in the dailies activity queue not at a NPC unless those NPCs also queue you

LordGavus

Totally agree with the tutorials.
People can do whatever they want in normal dungeons, but to enter veteran dungeons they have to complete the tutorial for the role they want to queue as.

It's been mentioned that most of the players that can't perform their chosen role simply won't do the tutorials and will continue doing what they want.
That's fine as they will be locked out of veteran dungeons until they complete the tutorial.

Turelus

I think they could teach some basics, like understanding how a taunt works etc.

However I don't know if they're going to be able to teach enough of the games meta as it always evolves.

Other than very broad basic knowledge of "Tanking means to taunt a boss then stay alive, blocking big attacks and dodging others" they can't touch on builds or skills due to them changing.

LordGavus

Turelus wrote: »

I think they could teach some basics, like understanding how a taunt works etc.

However I don't know if they're going to be able to teach enough of the games meta as it always evolves.

Other than very broad basic knowledge of "Tanking means to taunt a boss then stay alive, blocking big attacks and dodging others" they can't touch on builds or skills due to them changing.

I always thought the basics would be enough.

All would cover avoiding red, blocking and interupts.

Dps would be an aoe dps check and single target dps check.

Healer would require use of HOTs and burst heal, maybe cover buffs too.

Tank would cover taunts and would include a damage spike that will one shot unless the player has sufficient health and resistances.

The bar wouldn't have to be set too high. Just high enough that players have to have reasonable gear and basic rotation.

Edit for spelling.

Everstorm

It existed at one point. It's now known as Crypt of Hearts.

xerikos

This Undaunted Academy idea sounds like what guilds should be doing: training their guild mates. Finishing a brief (automated) tutorial doesn't necessarily mean players know what to do after the NPC congratulates them and send them out to the next dungeon. (Doing some Pvp may be a good training ground too).

LordGavus

xerikos wrote: »

This Undaunted Academy idea sounds like what guilds should be doing: training their guild mates. Finishing a brief (automated) tutorial doesn't necessarily mean players know what to do after the NPC congratulates them and send them out to the next dungeon. (Doing some Pvp may be a good training ground too).

This is true however, the tutorial would contain a check that you have to pass. It wouldn't just be advice or a role description.

Using dps as an example (and some random numbers), ultimately you would need to do 20k dps on a mob and 10k dps on a single boss.

You may not be totally ready for vet dungeons but at least you'll have the basic skills to have a chance.

That's the idea anyway.

flizomica

it would be great for some quality control with pugs, but idk how it could be implemented without upsetting the filthy casuals who want to bring their rp build into a vet dungeon :P

Merlin13KAGL

While sound, in principle, that's what your fellow players are for.

The resulting content would have to be so generic as to be only semi-useful, as it would be difficult to cover anything but the basics, given how builds and skill evolve.

The academy is the dungeons themselves. You graduate by surviving, getting speed runs, no-death's, moving on to vet and eventually hard mode clears.

It's very difficult to evaluate a parse (showing early recasts or late, etc).

A gauntlet, if you will, something with less creatures, more mechanics could prove interesting. Think Maelstrom meets Sosha Sil minus OP adds. Things like roll dodge, timing, resource management could be practiced, and perhaps improved here.

I'm not opposed to the whole idea, but I think it would be difficult to implement to provide a proper 'score.' that would be useful to various groups.

zaria

Turelus wrote: »

I think they could teach some basics, like understanding how a taunt works etc.

However I don't know if they're going to be able to teach enough of the games meta as it always evolves.

Other than very broad basic knowledge of "Tanking means to taunt a boss then stay alive, blocking big attacks and dodging others" they can't touch on builds or skills due to them changing.

It would not be too complex,
First an focus on dungeon team play, healer keep in range of tank and dps in range of healer. Tank turning the boss.
Take down adds first preferable with AoE.
Second dungeon mechanisms, keep out of red, some typical boss mechanisms and how to handle them.

Next is role dependent but very general.
DD: Rotation as in DoT and spam able will be an requirement.
bar rotation would be an topic but not required, you might need it to pass the dps check however.
The DPS check will be you and 3 npc against an boss.

Much the same for healer and tank they will more point to skills for you build rater than recommend an bar.

Yes much of this should be covered in guilds but not all are in good guilds.

idk

What the "Undaunted Academy" would go over would be so basic I am unsure how effective it would be. The skills needed to tank, heal or dps the dungeons are really minimal.

Tank, teach them to block and taunt. Ok.

Healer, teach them do toss a heal. Umm, really challenging.

DPS, make sure they can hit a target with a dps skill.

Gear requirements are rather on the low side considering that most dungeons can be completed without issue as long as the group has about 20k dps. Further, ESO will continue to endorse play as you want including hybrids which makes covering gearing rather complicated.

Working with a group is really more about area awareness and this takes time for newer players to develop. A "class" will not instill it.

Especially considering a dps can toss on a taunt or an restaff with one or two heals and can heal dungeons just fine. Many like myself heal dungeons as a 50/50 healer and contribute to the dps since few fights require much healing to be done.

In the end, I would not care what the class said I should do and heal or tank dungeons they way I see fit and the group I am with will be just fine with it.

Rickter

people come into this game because of "play how you want"

They want to be a light armor, spell-archer

or a heavy armor 2 hander brawler.

thats the magic and allure of this game. The trinity roles dont even come into play until Veteran Mode DLC dungeons and Trials

a large part of ESO playerbase isnt even concerned with that crap. they just want to play the market, solo quest, dabble in pvp, RP, like, the tutorial is something not very featured in other MMORPGs, i think it would be wasted development funding/time to create something like that.

now if zos had 20 more developers on their tiny little team, and funding for the next 12 years, then SURE! but right now, its on the players to teach the lessons.

Zyrudin

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

What the "Undaunted Academy" would go over would be so basic I am unsure how effective it would be. The skills needed to tank, heal or dps the dungeons are really minimal.

Tank, teach them to block and taunt. Ok.

Healer, teach them do toss a heal. Umm, really challenging.

DPS, make sure they can hit a target with a dps skill.

Gear requirements are rather on the low side considering that most dungeons can be completed without issue as long as the group has about 20k dps. Further, ESO will continue to endorse play as you want including hybrids which makes covering gearing rather complicated.

Working with a group is really more about area awareness and this takes time for newer players to develop. A "class" will not instill it.

Especially considering a dps can toss on a taunt or an restaff with one or two heals and can heal dungeons just fine. Many like myself heal dungeons as a 50/50 healer and contribute to the dps since few fights require much healing to be done.

In the end, I would not care what the class said I should do and heal or tank dungeons they way I see fit and the group I am with will be just fine with it.

I see your point, but, as it has been proven several times in previous threads on this type of subject, the basics are usually the hardest to learn by new players. Some sort of incentive and gate must be put in place to help them be ready for Veteran content. Completely clueless players, that have ground their way to their CP cannot be easily helped by other community members and, in fact, hamper the community from playing the game as it is intended. They can and should be able to perform normal dungeon content at will, but Veteran requires, at the very least, sound knowledge of the basics.

Magdalina

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

What the "Undaunted Academy" would go over would be so basic I am unsure how effective it would be. The skills needed to tank, heal or dps the dungeons are really minimal.

Tank, teach them to block and taunt. Ok.

Healer, teach them do toss a heal. Umm, really challenging.

DPS, make sure they can hit a target with a dps skill.

You'd generally think so, but apparently...yes. Yes, it is really, really challenging for a rather large portion of the playerbase, as I've found out in my recent pugging experience.

I'm not sure if an "academy" like one suggested in OP would work but there definitely needs to be some kind of learning curve within the game. The skill gap is atrocious and it is no longer simply the skill gap between "new" and "old" players, it's a skillgap between good and bad players - I'm seeing huge number of absolutely clueless cp 300-600 in vet dungeons, that's NOT new players anymore.

hmsdragonfly

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Naaah it's not what many of you think.

People have no desire to play any restricted trinity roles and a tutorial isn't going to resolve what ppl don't want to do in the first place.

Nerfs and restrictions are not what ppl want to spend their free time with and this stuff adds to frustrations.
If the game is going to use the trinity, then it needs to be enforced and enhanced. That's where your idea makes sense.

If the trinity is not going to exist, then all these references need to be removed and that actually allows balance to take place. Then it's a flip of PvP and PvE skills.

The other thing is undaunted quests should be in the dailies activity queue not at a NPC unless those NPCs also queue you

I disagree. Veteran players who do 3DDs runs, 4 DDs runs already know everything anyway.

The tutorial will be designed for new players, which means tanks who don't know how to taunt, DDs who deal 5k DPS with bow light attack, healer who are templars using 2H and spamming BoL.

The tutorial can teach new players very basic things:

1) Tank: how to taunt, explain to them why taunting and holding aggro of mobs are important, how to position (keep the boss away from the group). For some reasons, some people think shield stacking with infernal guardian without having any taunt equipped is reasonable to queue as a tank.
What should not be taught: what gear to use, what class to play, what skills to use (except for taunting skills), be tanky or be supportive.

2) DD: what is a rotation, what is DOT, what is AOE, what a rotation should be like to maximize the DPS (apply DOTs, use spammable when all DOTs are up)
What should not be taught: how to spec your characters (the game cannot tell players that they should spec all into either stam or mag. It's what players should do, but this advice should come from other players, not the game), what class to use, what gear, skills to use etc
There should only be only one DD instructor.

3) Healer: what is HOT, what is burst heal, why both are important, what to do when the group is full health instead of standing there.
What should not be taught: what gear/skills/class to use. Be supportive or be offensive.

idk

@Zyrudin @Magdalina

I do random GF often. I don't have to. I can go with guilides almost anytime I want.

I've seen the full spectrum out they're. I've been with groups where most of all have never cleared the dungeon and didn't know the fights. Somehow all but three times we cleared the dungeon. Those three times I was a tank and could not meaningfully contribute to dps.

In other words, I've seen success almost every time.

Further, Zos doesn't determine how to tank heal or dps anything. Unless it was very basic all Zos could succeed at is to give mediocre advice. Zos sure as hell isnt telling me how to heal tank or dps and I'd hate to see how they would screw up other players but trying to tell them how to do it.

Magdalina

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

I do random GF often. I don't have to. I can go with guilides almost anytime I want.

I've seen the full spectrum out they're. I've been with groups where most of all have never cleared the dungeon and didn't know the fights. Somehow all but three times we cleared the dungeon. Those three times I was a tank and could not meaningfully contribute to dps.

In other words, I've seen success almost every time.

Further, Zos doesn't determine how to tank heal or dps anything. Unless it was very basic all Zos could succeed at is to give mediocre advice. Zos sure as hell isnt telling me how to heal tank or dps and I'd hate to see how they would screw up other players but trying to tell them how to do it.

Did you try dlc dungeons? Because every time I pug non dlc yeah we get through them, but 2/3 of the time it feels like it's not because group was anywhere near decent or coordinated but just because the dungeon was so damn easy it could've probably been soloed.
If it's some relatively simple but actually requiring mechanics fight like Planar in WGT, rip. 3/4 pugs fail, not for dps check or anything but simply due to being unable to follow mechanics. Well, and yeah, 5k dps a person doesn't help. Or hell even first WGT boss, I've seen plenty of groups manage to fail there.

Edit: of non dlc dungeons I have actually failed with pugs it's FG 2 on Gamyne or whatever her name is, it's not possible to carry the group if people refuse to break lightning and kill chaining ads. Also CoA 2 because dps checks.

Zyrudin

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@Zyrudin @Magdalina

I do random GF often. I don't have to. I can go with guilides almost anytime I want.

I've seen the full spectrum out they're. I've been with groups where most of all have never cleared the dungeon and didn't know the fights. Somehow all but three times we cleared the dungeon. Those three times I was a tank and could not meaningfully contribute to dps.

In other words, I've seen success almost every time.

Further, Zos doesn't determine how to tank heal or dps anything. Unless it was very basic all Zos could succeed at is to give mediocre advice. Zos sure as hell isnt telling me how to heal tank or dps and I'd hate to see how they would screw up other players but trying to tell them how to do it.

Understood.

However, imagine how much better the "Finder" community would be if people didn't have to be carried. If those people actually had a notion of how to contribute in Veteran.

Yeah, an idea like this wouldn't resolve everything, but at least it would provide with basics for those that do want to learn. Those who do not, will simply continue to do what they already do and will eventually give up on content they can't really play with.

There are bare minimums. A tank must have a taunt and must be able to take a hit somehow. A healer must be able to heal the group and give it at least one buff and synergy opportunity. A dd must be able to put out enough damage to clear mobs and bosses at an adequate pace and make it comfortable for his team mates.

I am not advocating, not would it be possible in that format, a NPC endgame hardcore academy. Quite the contrary, a basic level by level demonstration of the reasons for each role to be there.

Zypheran

What a super idea.
I really hope this suggestion gets taken onboard.

Tasear

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Naaah it's not what many of you think.

People have no desire to play any restricted trinity roles and a tutorial isn't going to resolve what ppl don't want to do in the first place.

Nerfs and restrictions are not what ppl want to spend their free time with and this stuff adds to frustrations.
If the game is going to use the trinity, then it needs to be enforced and enhanced. That's where your idea makes sense.

If the trinity is not going to exist, then all these references need to be removed and that actually allows balance to take place. Then it's a flip of PvP and PvE skills.

The other thing is undaunted quests should be in the dailies activity queue not at a NPC unless those NPCs also queue you

Do you follow everything you learn in school? At least it gave you a baseline though.

Fallen_Ray

Awesomely brilliant idea. Agree and support this. I hope they take this into consideration.

As a matter of fact is actually too good for the people in charge to actually take into consideration. Meaning this won't be passed as feedback and will be forgotten in a digital heap of posts. Like it always happens with every good feedback.

Cadbury

Sounds almost exactly like the Hall of the Novice in FFXIV.

In this regard it's a good starting off point in a game where running dungeons is mandatory and mechanics factor in heavily later on.

While it helps with the bare basics, it's a far cry from running the actual dungeons. And that is where the real challenge lies. Not every vet will be willing to give a newbie a chance and show them the particular nuances of a dungeon. Even today in FFXIV, most will just say "go watch a YT vid lol" and kick.

Tasear

Cadbury wrote: »

Sounds almost exactly like the Hall of the Novice in FFXIV.

In this regard it's a good starting off point in a game where running dungeons is mandatory and mechanics factor in heavily later on.

While it helps with the bare basics, it's a far cry from running the actual dungeons. And that is where the real challenge lies. Not every vet will be willing to give a newbie a chance and show them the particular nuances of a dungeon. Even today in FFXIV, most will just say "go watch a YT vid lol" and kick.

But.. I bet they teach... tanks... to get a taunt.

deleted008293

Somehow leveling make perfect sense. That way you can group with people on the same level as you.

But this game should also encourage playing with everyone not only with the best players in game.

Tasear

So honestly I think this a brilliant idea... now let me add my thoughts.

It's not ridiculous to add a school, even pokemon (easiest game in the world) has one. You don't have to necessary in force but if you made a quest there then it would be fantastic. Why don't we have one yet? The issues is "play as you want" how do we keep this freedom?

#library

In this regard, I think Zos @ZOS_GinaBruno allows for player made submissions and into a library of content for how to do x. Then again ... maybe there's $.$ to be made writing a book about this... best seller here I come. But no really, it would be useful for all players to come and read other players submissions on content. Sure they would need guidelines, but easily doable. Also can take inspiration from second life's in game books to reproduce player books. Back tracking a bit, maybe make the books sell able via gold (10% to academy(gold sink)) this would allow social guides to stay alive without raffles and such.

#request board

This could be inside the academy, but maybe allow a request board for tasks. Like skyreach leveling, find 4 nirnroot, craft me a bed, craft amour, help with world boss x, help with dugeon boss, help doing banished cells 1, help learning how to be good dps

#Trial Lobby

So we know random people are unlikely to work atm for trials, sometimes not even for pledges, so why not have a waiting room (maybe designed as the dinning area or tavern nearby) where people talk to npc about find a parnter for a trail or pledge.. and he says I can recommend a few people to you then shows a list of people waiting (online still) for trials. I would show prestige, and role, but not class as it could turn toxic for the community direction.

@ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel


NPC Professors

Now how to do this so it's still allows creativity and ingenuity. I think the teachers should speak like a politician, many people do it this way, but they are many ways to do it.. Mentioon the dangers of dugeons, how it's good to have food (npc gives free good sample) which can be bought guild traders or npcs, maybe some face speech mentioning soul gems give you a second chance or something to do it again, but use wisely or you will be trap forever in the dungeon

On wards for the holy trinity, I think it could be done with the npc teachers saying adventures usually go into dungeons at a group of four people , but some legendary figures have been more undaunted. Say undaunted usually go into dugeons with each person doing there part. It' useful a strong player to keep off aggro from bosse mentions taunting as the easiest way, but also other ways to do it (first to attack, crowd control, etc)


Test dummy

So some already exist in the game, but so do crafting stations. Just charge people to use the undaunted one , and use a queue system. This could be also useful if you have like 8 or something to test aoe damage too. Also have the instructors mention different type of mobs and characteristics. (maybe have a show case once a week)

X mob uses negate while having weakness to fires and etc. Have maybe a special are where people talk for it about hour on live while leave npc there after to talk about the mob.


Duel area

So many people complain about duels, but what if there was an area where you could practice and watch people duel. You can even have people pay. I also think this would be useful for the battleground and what not. Also npcs can sell consumbles like the fireworks and ice shards, maybe even temporary face faint

Amour

Like the test dummy why not explain some details about a piece of gear while saying there's probably even more uses out there. Have an area for discussion maybe on the forums or specialized zone. This would get people interested in trying x content. #hiresomegames or interns or volunteers.

Guild Zone area

Afterwards send them to area where they can visit guilds and etc to find more adventures and friends. Maybe you can do this by having an area where guilds pay like 10 million gold (I joking please no...) and have a yearly or monthy guy who stands there tills passerby about the guild, shows pictures maybe, sell limited amount of items , also offers you to join them maybe even gives a gift.

@Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert ... think about it please. Sincerly you fan and wish to volunteer or be employed for this project

Skayaq

Normal dungeons should be were you pick up the skills you need to be able to veteran dungeons. I hate mechanics like this, were the only purpose seems to be to be a barrier of entry for doing actual content.

Zyrudin

Tasear wrote: »

So honestly I think this a brilliant idea... now let me add my thoughts.

It's not ridiculous to add a school, even pokemon (easiest game in the world) has one. You don't have to necessary in force but if you made a quest there then it would be fantastic. Why don't we have one yet? The issues is "play as you want" how do we keep this freedom?

#library

In this regard, I think Zos @ZOS_GinaBruno allows for player made submissions and into a library of content for how to do x. Then again ... maybe there's $.$ to be made writing a book about this... best seller here I come. But no really, it would be useful for all players to come and read other players submissions on content. Sure they would need guidelines, but easily doable. Also can take inspiration from second life's in game books to reproduce player books. Back tracking a bit, maybe make the books sell able via gold (10% to academy(gold sink)) this would allow social guides to stay alive without raffles and such.

#request board

This could be inside the academy, but maybe allow a request board for tasks. Like skyreach leveling, find 4 nirnroot, craft me a bed, craft amour, help with world boss x, help with dugeon boss, help doing banished cells 1, help learning how to be good dps

#Trial Lobby

So we know random people are unlikely to work atm for trials, sometimes not even for pledges, so why not have a waiting room (maybe designed as the dinning area or tavern nearby) where people talk to npc about find a parnter for a trail or pledge.. and he says I can recommend a few people to you then shows a list of people waiting (online still) for trials. I would show prestige, and role, but not class as it could turn toxic for the community direction.

@ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel


NPC Professors

Now how to do this so it's still allows creativity and ingenuity. I think the teachers should speak like a politician, many people do it this way, but they are many ways to do it.. Mentioon the dangers of dugeons, how it's good to have food (npc gives free good sample) which can be bought guild traders or npcs, maybe some face speech mentioning soul gems give you a second chance or something to do it again, but use wisely or you will be trap forever in the dungeon

On wards for the holy trinity, I think it could be done with the npc teachers saying adventures usually go into dungeons at a group of four people , but some legendary figures have been more undaunted. Say undaunted usually go into dugeons with each person doing there part. It' useful a strong player to keep off aggro from bosse mentions taunting as the easiest way, but also other ways to do it (first to attack, crowd control, etc)


Test dummy

So some already exist in the game, but so do crafting stations. Just charge people to use the undaunted one , and use a queue system. This could be also useful if you have like 8 or something to test aoe damage too. Also have the instructors mention different type of mobs and characteristics. (maybe have a show case once a week)

X mob uses negate while having weakness to fires and etc. Have maybe a special are where people talk for it about hour on live while leave npc there after to talk about the mob.


Duel area

So many people complain about duels, but what if there was an area where you could practice and watch people duel. You can even have people pay. I also think this would be useful for the battleground and what not. Also npcs can sell consumbles like the fireworks and ice shards, maybe even temporary face faint

Amour

Like the test dummy why not explain some details about a piece of gear while saying there's probably even more uses out there. Have an area for discussion maybe on the forums or specialized zone. This would get people interested in trying x content. #hiresomegames or interns or volunteers.

Guild Zone area

Afterwards send them to area where they can visit guilds and etc to find more adventures and friends. Maybe you can do this by having an area where guilds pay like 10 million gold (I joking please no...) and have a yearly or monthy guy who stands there tills passerby about the guild, shows pictures maybe, sell limited amount of items , also offers you to join them maybe even gives a gift.

@Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert ... think about it please. Sincerly you fan and wish to volunteer or be employed for this project

Great insights, @Tasear! Great contribution!

I would disagree with the queue system for the trial dummy because adding another queue system wouldn't benefit the flow of the game. I am sure these can easily be instanced only per Undaunted Academy quest, with several lined up, like you have for the Cyrodiil siege target practice. If people or groups want to have a go at a trial dummy, they can always craft one

I am unsure if I got the Armour section. Wouldn't the NPC professors also address, in stages, the gear?

Merlin13KAGL

Cadbury wrote: »

Sounds almost exactly like the Hall of the Novice in FFXIV.

In this regard it's a good starting off point in a game where running dungeons is mandatory and mechanics factor in heavily later on.

While it helps with the bare basics, it's a far cry from running the actual dungeons. And that is where the real challenge lies. Not every vet will be willing to give a newbie a chance and show them the particular nuances of a dungeon. Even today in FFXIV, most will just say "go watch a YT vid lol" and kick.

Ironically, the normal dungeon progression pretty well took care of this on its own at one point, prior to super-scaling everyone and everything.

When you could pursue tier + 1 dungeons early, you knew you were getting the hang of things. If you couldn't you practiced those or the current tier.

Zyrudin

Skayaq wrote: »

Normal dungeons should be were you pick up the skills you need to be able to veteran dungeons. I hate mechanics like this, were the only purpose seems to be to be a barrier of entry for doing actual content.

Understood and partially agreed.

However, normal dungeons have two issues:

1) They assume that you are already familiar with what you need to do regarding your role, which is not always the case, especially for newer players (ex: I sign up as tank, but bring no taunt)

2) They are forgiving enough for players to get away with almost anything, while, therefore, learning very little.

Even when more knowledgable players try to convey some of the basics to a new player, this is not always either taken well or even taken into account.

Moreover, a player who gets away with anything in normal dungeons starts thinking he is ready for Vet. Well, you know what happens then he either catches up with what he missed earlier or gets frustrated with the content.

This, even if the Undaunted Academy quests were to become not only optional (as Cyrodiil's are) but also repeatable, would at least give these players a central point to focus on improving up to a certain level for vet group content.

EDIT: For clarity