Warden nerfs CP

ereboz

Based off a few of the abilities, morphs and passives shown in ESO live today, it looks like the warden is getting lots of stam/magicka sustain assistance, which is probably why we're losing warlord and magician. I'm sure changes will be made to other classes to compensate as well, but basically the warden is the reason for the nerf in the first place

WhiteMage

I don't believe there is sufficient information to support that claim.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

The planners at ZoS are not able to think of what the change will look like in six months so they change sets, powers, passives and mechanics with no thought for the future. If you look at every change they always have to do big tweaks to fit it.

No way in hell The Champion System was not getting needed the bonuses are too high. Something that was said week one on the PTS.

ADarklore

I don't see how Wardens are getting 'lots' of sustain assistance, what I saw in the presentation was the Netch which gives back a set amount over a significant period of time. Whereas right now in the game there is already Magickasteal which gives back 400 Magicka per second. And NO, they aren't going to make any changes to compensate because that would defeat their entire rationale for removing CR from CP... they want resource management to matter in ESO and no longer allow damage glyph stacking with virtually infinite resources.

Doctordarkspawn

I'd make sense.

Prepare for the 'warden only' healer meta.

Lynx7386

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I'd make sense.

Prepare for the 'warden only' healer meta.

Hardly, templars with channeled focus and radiant aura have a lot more resource recovery than what we've seen from the warden

Vaoh

No, not really lol. All classes have a method of sustain.

• DKs get sustain from ultimate casts
• Sorcs sustain from Dark Deal
• Nightblades sustain from Siphoning Attacks
• Templars sustain from Repentance (edit: and Restoring Focus)
• Wardens sustain from their Netch

Besides that Ele Drain, Necrotic Orb, Shards and Heavy Attacks provide all of the necessary sustain you find in Trials.

CP was not nerfed because of the one new class they're introducing to the four we already have. some ppl omg -_-

Alcast

ereboz wrote: »

Based off a few of the abilities, morphs and passives shown in ESO live today, it looks like the warden is getting lots of stam/magicka sustain assistance, which is probably why we're losing warlord and magician. I'm sure changes will be made to other classes to compensate as well, but basically the warden is the reason for the nerf in the first place

incorrect. Sustain just in general overperformed. And warden doesnt have good résource management at all.

Kay1

Vaoh wrote: »

No, not really lol. All classes have a method of sustain.

• DKs get sustain from ultimate casts
• Sorcs sustain from Dark Deal
• Nightblades sustain from Siphoning Attacks
• Templars sustain from Repentance
• Wardens sustain from their Netch

Besides that Ele Drain, Necrotic Orb, Shards and Heavy Attacks provide all of the necessary sustain you find in Trials.

CP was not nerfed because of the one new class they're introducing to the four we already have. some ppl omg -_-

No
Yes
No
No
I don't know they didn't released that class yet

Don't spread wrong information, that's not how those classes sustain and they all used to sustain with the CP.

That's why I'm making another Stamsorc, because they have another way to sustain and its called Dark Deal.

Waseem

first year warden will be superior to other classes, to boost expansion sales, a year after other classes may get buffed to be back on par

Chilly-McFreeze

Waseem wrote: »

first year warden will be superior to other classes, to boost expansion sales, a year after other classes may get buffed to be back on par

Problem is warden doesn't comes with the expansion only. It comes with the base game patch afaik.

SodanTok

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Waseem wrote: »

first year warden will be superior to other classes, to boost expansion sales, a year after other classes may get buffed to be back on par

Problem is warden doesn't comes with the expansion only. It comes with the base game patch afaik.

What he said was stupid "hurr durr they need dem moni so it will be OP"

but it will come with expansion only

ADarklore

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Waseem wrote: »

first year warden will be superior to other classes, to boost expansion sales, a year after other classes may get buffed to be back on par

Problem is warden doesn't comes with the expansion only. It comes with the base game patch afaik.

Actually, Warden is ONLY available with the purchase of the Morrowind chapter.

Troneon

ereboz wrote: »

Based off a few of the abilities, morphs and passives shown in ESO live today, it looks like the warden is getting lots of stam/magicka sustain assistance, which is probably why we're losing warlord and magician. I'm sure changes will be made to other classes to compensate as well, but basically the warden is the reason for the nerf in the first place

I will just leave this...here....

Troneon wrote: »

The fake expansion DLC will have all the bis sets / gear and warden will OP for 6 months on purpose until they nerf it....

This is ZO$ were dealing with remember...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0fBiCNiR1E

ADarklore

Kay1 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

No, not really lol. All classes have a method of sustain.

• DKs get sustain from ultimate casts
• Sorcs sustain from Dark Deal
• Nightblades sustain from Siphoning Attacks
• Templars sustain from Repentance
• Wardens sustain from their Netch

Besides that Ele Drain, Necrotic Orb, Shards and Heavy Attacks provide all of the necessary sustain you find in Trials.

CP was not nerfed because of the one new class they're introducing to the four we already have. some ppl omg -_-

No
Yes
No
No
I don't know they didn't released that class yet

Don't spread wrong information, that's not how those classes sustain and they all used to sustain with the CP.

That's why I'm making another Stamsorc, because they have another way to sustain and its called Dark Deal.

While some players may not utilize those noted abilities for sustain, they should and probably will have to after the changes to CP. The devs probably see that few people are utilizing those skills for sustain and want to push them into using them.

Chilly-McFreeze

ADarklore wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Waseem wrote: »

first year warden will be superior to other classes, to boost expansion sales, a year after other classes may get buffed to be back on par

Problem is warden doesn't comes with the expansion only. It comes with the base game patch afaik.

Actually, Warden is ONLY available with the purchase of the Morrowind chapter.

Oops, then I probably confused that with a former discussion about wardens and eso+. But good to know. Thanks for the info.

STEVIL

ereboz wrote: »

Based off a few of the abilities, morphs and passives shown in ESO live today, it looks like the warden is getting lots of stam/magicka sustain assistance, which is probably why we're losing warlord and magician. I'm sure changes will be made to other classes to compensate as well, but basically the warden is the reason for the nerf in the first place

or the exact opposite - the warden is the first peak at morrowind post-cp changed skill lines and so it shows they may be making changes to classes to move sustain from passives in CP to more active slotted abilities in the main skill lines from classes or from guilds.

personally, i would be just fine if guilds skill lines got some basic sustain functions added into them. heck, if they were shifted to be a sort of catch all for some well rounded utility function grab-bags and off the DPS focus that would be great IMO.

Would support more roles for any class but class utils could still outshine them.

But regardless, right now there is just nothing to establish your conclusion follows from your supporting evidence.

More to the point, the complaints about sustain were ongoing way before any of the warden info came to light.

TheForseti

This is just erroneous. ZoS has said for a very long time that they want resource management to be a core strategic element in the game, and the high CP cap has virtually negated the need for any strategy around managing resources.

psychotic13

Kay1 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

No, not really lol. All classes have a method of sustain.

• DKs get sustain from ultimate casts
• Sorcs sustain from Dark Deal
• Nightblades sustain from Siphoning Attacks
• Templars sustain from Repentance
• Wardens sustain from their Netch

Besides that Ele Drain, Necrotic Orb, Shards and Heavy Attacks provide all of the necessary sustain you find in Trials.

CP was not nerfed because of the one new class they're introducing to the four we already have. some ppl omg -_-

No
Yes
No
No
I don't know they didn't released that class yet

Don't spread wrong information, that's not how those classes sustain and they all used to sustain with the CP.

That's why I'm making another Stamsorc, because they have another way to sustain and its called Dark Deal.

Umm @Vaoh is exactly right in what he says, spreading misinformation? That's what you've just done lol..

Morons on these forums is getting out of hand

ADarklore

It's interesting how many people think that ZOS is going to remove Cost Reduction from CP because they want resource management to matter, and then turn around and add in easier ways to manage resources... it is NOT going to happen!! As noted above, there already are abilities in the classes/weapons to help manage sustain, just because you are choosing not to use them, doesn't mean ZOS is going to give you something else. Use what you already have. This is the problem ZOS is seeing, people throwing 100 pts into Cost Reduction CP and then running all damage glyphs in jewelry while not bothering to slot resource management abilities... yet doing high damage along with having high sustain. They've already said they want to LOWER the damage ceiling and want resource management to MATTER... thus they are going to force people to make a choice between higher damage or sustain... not have both.

Asgari

Vaoh wrote: »

No, not really lol. All classes have a method of sustain.

• DKs get sustain from ultimate casts
• Sorcs sustain from Dark Deal
• Nightblades sustain from Siphoning Attacks
• Templars sustain from Repentance
• Wardens sustain from their Netch

Besides that Ele Drain, Necrotic Orb, Shards and Heavy Attacks provide all of the necessary sustain you find in Trials.

CP was not nerfed because of the one new class they're introducing to the four we already have. some ppl omg -_-

You list these items but forget to mention all the classes except DK have cost reduction or regen passive for the class.

psychotic13

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

No, not really lol. All classes have a method of sustain.

• DKs get sustain from ultimate casts
• Sorcs sustain from Dark Deal
• Nightblades sustain from Siphoning Attacks
• Templars sustain from Repentance
• Wardens sustain from their Netch

Besides that Ele Drain, Necrotic Orb, Shards and Heavy Attacks provide all of the necessary sustain you find in Trials.

CP was not nerfed because of the one new class they're introducing to the four we already have. some ppl omg -_-

You list these items but forget to mention all the classes except DK have cost reduction or regen passive for the class.

Tbh the sustain you get from casting ults more than makes up for that

NordSwordnBoard

The Warden has enacted the fifth amendment, and is willing to testify if given immunity from prosecution.

Rewws

Perhaps ZOS only wants people to be able to costumize their characters more to their playstyle? since I mean everyone is taking warlord as stamina and magician as magicka anyway, so why have it as a CP option? They could just remove it entirely and lower the overall cost of all abilities while making the resource pools we have the same. Thoughts?

acw37162

Yeah the sustain is so overpowers that after internal testing and invinting players to ZOS for testing they gave the skill NO COST.

The only other skill in the game with no cost is repentance.

If you listened to what the developers on stream said,

"We found player were often to low on resources to even cast an ability with a 2500 magica or stamina cost to get resources back"

If that sounds like overpowered regen to you then your on the Warden OP hype train.

Anhedonie

Yeah, right.

paulsimonps

I played with the warden a in February when the Netch still had a cost to it, it was around 2000 mag or stam to get 4000 back over 25s. It was difficult to use and died a fair bit. I was testing it in a tanks perspective and I wanted it slightly changed to make the warden more viable for endgame Main tanking, not just off tanking which it is the king of in my opinion, and with this change I think the Warden gets a much better shot as a Main Tank. I still see where the DK still has some things to put it on top but the warden isn't bad either now. And I think in the situations where you want two tanks I would definitely go with one of each now. I like the change a lot.

The warden was in no way the cause of the CP changes. As someone mentioned above, with the exception of the DK's every class has at least one form of passive that grants them either cost reduction or regen, and some have both. Warden has Regen and it also has magicka back when healing allies with the classes healing tree. Its not more powerful than what other classes have. DK's gets left out a bit there with no regen or cost reduction but they get battle roar and helping hand. Most Stamina DK's don't get much help from Helping hand since most don't use Igneous weapons anymore in favor of power pots but Magicka, healer and tank does. So yea DK has it rough with resources a bit but the other classes, including warden, are in no way overpowered in that sense. The cost reduction classes, which the warden is not, would be the more powerful if anything.

EldritchPenguin

TheForseti wrote: »

This is just erroneous. ZoS has said for a very long time that they want resource management to be a core strategic element in the game, and the high CP cap has virtually negated the need for any strategy around managing resources.

Can we stop with the myth that CP gives us infinite sustain already? Trial runners have really high sustain because of Orbs and Elemental Drain and Worm Cult. CP helps, but saying that there's no need for any strategy for managing resources is not true, because high level players do put a lot into resource management. It just comes from the healers rather than the DPS.

Players who are in the middle, the competent players who want to get to endgame, but aren't quite there yet, already struggle a lot with resources. What's the sense in nuking their sustain to get at endgame players?

OneKhajiitCrimeWave

Apparently the sky appears to be falling on Tamriel. Run for your lives walkers!

The CP changes highlighted for removing cost reduction and reducing recovery are a means to stop people finding so called "infinite resource" builds in Cyrodiil.

Khajiit still thinks there is more to this story than this small bit of information and feels that this is the leaked bit of a large change aimed at making sustainability more of an issue so it is more focused on by walkers.

klowdy1

ADarklore wrote: »

Kay1 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

No, not really lol. All classes have a method of sustain.

• DKs get sustain from ultimate casts
• Sorcs sustain from Dark Deal
• Nightblades sustain from Siphoning Attacks
• Templars sustain from Repentance
• Wardens sustain from their Netch

Besides that Ele Drain, Necrotic Orb, Shards and Heavy Attacks provide all of the necessary sustain you find in Trials.

CP was not nerfed because of the one new class they're introducing to the four we already have. some ppl omg -_-

No
Yes
No
No
I don't know they didn't released that class yet

Don't spread wrong information, that's not how those classes sustain and they all used to sustain with the CP.

That's why I'm making another Stamsorc, because they have another way to sustain and its called Dark Deal.

While some players may not utilize those noted abilities for sustain, they should and probably will have to after the changes to CP. The devs probably see that few people are utilizing those skills for sustain and want to push them into using them.

The problem with the templar option you list, is only one player gets that benefit. Have you ever tried to repent after someone else does?

Vaoh

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

No, not really lol. All classes have a method of sustain.

• DKs get sustain from ultimate casts
• Sorcs sustain from Dark Deal
• Nightblades sustain from Siphoning Attacks
• Templars sustain from Repentance
• Wardens sustain from their Netch

Besides that Ele Drain, Necrotic Orb, Shards and Heavy Attacks provide all of the necessary sustain you find in Trials.

CP was not nerfed because of the one new class they're introducing to the four we already have. some ppl omg -_-

You list these items but forget to mention all the classes except DK have cost reduction or regen passive for the class.

Yeah I forgot to mention that Wardens are a bit different, but not in way that makes them stronger. In fact people are noticing they might actually be worse off than the other classes in terms of sustain

They only seem to have a passive in Green Balance that helps the sustain of healers and maybe tanks a bit, but not DPS.

DKs gain huge sustain from Ult casts. Dark Deal, Restoring Focus, Siphoning Attacks, Repentance..... these are all great and are more than fine when it comes to sustain. Wardens only have their Netch. Nothing more. It seems to restore less than 4K Magicka or 3K Stamina over 24 seconds. This is around the amount that two Dark Deals can get you in around 2 seconds....

A lot of people are bandwagoning on the idea that a new class *must* be OP to sell the expansion and Wrobel is inherently terrible so the it must be true. Those who actually look in depth at the class and compare it to what we already have are not seeing that anymore. It seems quite well balanced. Imagine if Sorc was the new class, and Crystal Frags was shown off. Or a Templar with their BoL. People who go crazy shouting OP.

The fact that we don't have constant threads opening which call Warden OP after every showing is enough to prove how balanced it is actually turning out to be.