help with nb tank build

Lynx7386

Swapping my nightblade to a tank now that I've farmed up the gear to go dps on my dragon knight, wanting to run an ultimate generating sap tank. This is what I've got planned right now, would appreciate any pointers:

Head: blood spawn
Shoulders: blood spawn
Chest: Tavas
Hands: tavas
Waist: ebon
Legs: tavas
Feet: ebon

Amulet: ebon
Ring1: ebon
Ring2: ebon

1h: tavas
Shield: tavas
1h: tavas
Shield: tavas

Front bar:
[] - pierce
/\ - flex spot
() - funnel health
L1 - structured entropy
R1 - siphoning attacks
U - aggressive warhorn

Back bar:
[] - heroic slash
/\ - refreshing path
() - Sap essence
L1 - structured entropy
R1 - mirage
U - flex ultimate

Flex spot:
Lotus fan for gap closer
Blood altar for aoe packs (primarily in blessed crucible)
Proximity detonation for aoe
Cripple for major expedition

Ultimate flex spot:
Veil of blades for aoe/protection
Spell wall
Soul tether for aoe and healing
Soul harvest for ultimate generation

Probably going with atronach and red frothgar for magicka regen so I can keep strife/sap spam up for siphoning attacks resource recovery.

Jitterbug

/follow

Blake6332

I definitely reccomend Swarm Mother monster set over anything else for anything other than sorc/dk tank (because they both have immobilize) in dungeons. With no immobilize and no pulls your dps will hate you. NB tank is okay because Sap spam will pretty much ensure AoE aggro for whatever reason. My nb tank always has aggro in AoE because of that. Other than that im sure those sets are fine, though the Dragon set would further your ultimate generation even MORE. Ebon/dragonguard is awesome. Also, slot Soul Harvest on one bar for the ultimate, its awesome.

Lynx7386

I might swap ebon for dragonguard eventually. I have ebon already from what my dk tank was using, and tavas is easy enough to craft. I'll see if I can get swarm mother, but what's wrong with blood spawn for ultimate gen?

Autolycus

This setup is solid as it is from a gear/skill perspective for pretty much all pve content. The one thing I note that you could benefit from the most is having Absorb Magic on your primary tanking bar, or both if you can afford the second spot. I don't use it on my back bar, giving it up in favor of group utility (like Mystic Orb).

You can generate more ultimate with Akaviri Dragonguard, but honestly I don't see the point in doing so for dungeons anymore. We really don't care about ults on trash pulls, and there are very few (none, with practice) situations where your ult won't be ready with this setup for every boss fight. Ebon is better for your group, especially for pug runs where dps and survivability may be lower.

You don't need Structured Entropy as far as your max health is concerned, as you can hit the necessary max health threshold via glyphs and passives. That being said, I recommend 10-20 attribute points in health if you're building just for tanking. Instead, use Mystic/Energy orb to boost your group's sustain, or if you have no magicka dps, simply double-slot your Swallow Soul or Absorb Magic here. You can keep Funnel, but the increased healing received as a main tank in vet trials is worth it, and your outbound healing is sufficient (albeit less convenient and less burst) for everything, so you may find Swallow Soul to be more efficient in tougher content.

Soul Harvest is a good flex ult for dungeons, but for trials I would use Bolstering Darkness. It's quite difficult to survive Rhakkat's chaingun mechanic in full medium armor (as an off-tank), and BD allows you to survive this mechanic while the main tank is rezzed, when worse comes to worst. You rarely need to use it, but it's also extremely valuable for your group if your War Horn is ready, but someone just cast it. Some mobs (like Shadowguards in vMoL) are extremely punishing for your group, and BD allows them to get in close without dying. Also, passive health for being slotted, and it procs your Major Ward and Resolve.

Atronach is definitely a good choice for Mundus and is the go-to option for most tanks. If you can do without the recovery, though, I would go Thief. The extra crit makes your self-healing and group-healing a lot more potent, and thus useful. In an off-tank setup with Powerful Assault, the Thief is your single best choice, because you aren't doing a lot of tanking, but doing a lot of healing, and the extra crit helps your group more than most people realize.

Mirage is a great choice and I wouldn't ever criticize someone for choosing it if that's their preference, but I don't consider it to be necessary. The major expedition from Double Take makes it a universally beneficial skill. There's not a single dungeon, trial, or open world situation where Major Expedition isn't helpful. Even just for getting into the center of enemies before they spread out (followed by Sap Essence) makes a significant difference in the efficiency of your pulls, and limits the amount of "grouping up" you have to do thereafter. Double Take also eliminates the need for Lotus Fan if you use it properly.

Also, as someone mentioned above, Swarm Mother is a good option for many different dungeons, but don't waste your slots on this in trials. There are few things in trials that aren't immune to chains anyway, and the mobs that you would really want to chain, are best left to the DKs in the group (it's simply much faster to chain than to use Swarm Mother).

Judging solely from your post, it doesn't look like you need much help finalizing the build. You're on the right track and most of what I've recommended above can be chalked up to preference (tempered with experience, but still a matter of preference). If you'd like additional sight, you can check out my guide. Otherwise, keep it up! It's good to see more NB tanks around these days.

WalksonGraves

Leki, Reactive, Pirate skeleton.

You can aggro everything all day and never risk getting overwhelmed. It's roughly between 65%-92% mitigation.

You can ignore swarm mother it's a trash set. Takes far too long to aggro a target and wait for them to fire a projectile for you to block. It only applies to ranged npcs which don't ever matter.

You don't need ult gear as a nb you have enough sources from passives and skills, dks have barely any thats why it's so commonly used. Warhorn isn't what it once was for a lot of reasons so keeping it up is counter productive.

kylewwefan

NB builds ultimate quick with potions. On your flex spot, I use S/B skill absorb magic. I use Bow on back bar with venom arrow for ranged interrupt; double take, shades, blood alter and ring of preservation I think and veil. I usually run Barrier on front bar. In 4 man it helps out a lot more than warhorn ever has.....not saying I wouldn't run warhorn with a good group.


Something has been not quite right with the S/B Ultimates. Sometimes it reflects back at the caster and heals them. A lot.

You look to have a sap tank bar setup, it good to use armor that has healing taken. I use one that adds resistance and one for healing taken. That swarm mothers might be good also. Nightblade CC mass hysteria send mobs running everywhere. This is not so good all the time.

Lynx7386

I don't have blood spawn yet so I'm using kraghs for the moment until I can farm for it. With the setup though, I'm at 35k health, 19k magicka, and 9-10k stamina. magicka regen is at just over 2k, and resistances are both at 28-29k self buffed.

I'm at 4 points into health and 60 into magicka, I'd have to adjust that if I dropped structured entropy to remain at 35k hp. The extra magicka from mages guild passives is kinda nice too tbh.

I'll give it a shot in dungeons tonight, need to try and get a better monster set and better traits on my ebon pieces.

Autolycus

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I don't have blood spawn yet so I'm using kraghs for the moment until I can farm for it. With the setup though, I'm at 35k health, 19k magicka, and 9-10k stamina. magicka regen is at just over 2k, and resistances are both at 28-29k self buffed.

I'm at 4 points into health and 60 into magicka, I'd have to adjust that if I dropped structured entropy to remain at 35k hp. The extra magicka from mages guild passives is kinda nice too tbh.

I'll give it a shot in dungeons tonight, need to try and get a better monster set and better traits on my ebon pieces.

You don't need 35k for anything, as far as I know. I tank vMoL with around 30k, and with a proper War Horn rotation, I'm at 34k for basically the whole fight.

Lynx7386

Ah, I had heard 35 was the benchmark, guess I heard wrong. My last tank was the dk shielding build, so I ran 60k hp, tanking ad a nightblade is definitely different

Autolycus

There are NB builds out there that make use of Bone Shield, and that scales from max health too. It's not "wrong," just a different setup.

I would at least use Absorb Magic though. It will increase the amount of damage you can block (therefore you need less health to cushion against the blows), reduce your block cost (fewer light attacks, or maybe recovery glyphs instead of shieldplay), and plays a really valuable part on Rhakkat specifically. His chaingun mechanic can be absorbed this way, shielding a lot of the damage and healing you instead. Even if you never cast it for the absorb mechanic, the passive benefits are really good.

WalksonGraves

imo bone shield isn't worth it even at 50k hp. The morphs are broken/worthless and it's expensive for a short duration.

paulsimonps

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Ah, I had heard 35 was the benchmark, guess I heard wrong. My last tank was the dk shielding build, so I ran 60k hp, tanking ad a nightblade is definitely different

yea the "standard" health that a large majority of end game tanks use is around 30k give or take a few k, but the preferred is over 30k but not by much.

paulsimonps

Is the build for Trials? Cause in my opinion ultimate generation builds don't give all that much to a group. You have 3-4 people, on harder content usually 4, that does warhorns. The downfalls of a rotation is the Healers lack of ulti gen and not the tanks. Using Powerful assault or Alkosh will give your team more damage than you going with slightly faster warhorns. Its why people have started moving away from Bloodspawn a bit, though many also feel like there isn't a good replacement for it but that's another discussion. Doing Ebon+Alkosh or Ebon+Powerful Assault I think will gain you more in the long run. And this btw is regardless of class. The 4 man Warhorn rotation will work just fine and spending 2-3 full sets to try and up your own time but just a few seconds while everyone else still has bad ulti gen won't give as much as the buffs or debuffs from the previously mentioned sets.

Lynx7386

It's mostly for vet dungeons and pledges. I don't run trials too often and when I do its usually as a dps (that's the one place in the game dps can get an easy spot, lol).

I'm thinking about trying to get lord Warden instead of blood spawn since my resistances are only at 28k. It seems like a more reliable set. It's either that or 1pc pirate Skeleton and 1pc Chudan for the resists passively. After looking at blood spawn the 6% chance seems pretty low for what it gives.

paulsimonps

Lynx7386 wrote: »

It's mostly for vet dungeons and pledges. I don't run trials too often and when I do its usually as a dps (that's the one place in the game dps can get an easy spot, lol).

I'm thinking about trying to get lord Warden instead of blood spawn since my resistances are only at 28k. It seems like a more reliable set. It's either that or 1pc pirate Skeleton and 1pc Chudan for the resists passively. After looking at blood spawn the 6% chance seems pretty low for what it gives.

I tank vet trials with less resistance than that. Don't worry about resistance. Most overrated stat for a tank to max out. You are completely fine with what you have. 7 Heavy armor is all you need. No reinforced, no Nirnhoned or other things to buff it. Just heavy armor and Major Ward and Resolve and you are golden. Might I suggest 1p Chokethorn and 1p Shadowrend for a nice combined bonus of 258 magicka recovery that of course gets buffed by CP and other magicka recovery precentage buffs. Its what I run on my DK.

Autolycus

I tend to agree with most of what @paulsimonps suggests when it comes to tanking, as I find we often reach the same conclusion about how best to serve the group (insert respectful nod here). The gear he suggests and the recommendation to go all 7 heavy armor are both accurate for a NB tank too.

The magicka recovery is probably not needed as a NB, however. If you find that it works really well for you, then you should definitely keep using it. If not, then take a look at the Sentinel of Rkugamz.

For dungeons specifically, Swarm Mother is a good option as a NB tank. The key to making Swarm Mother work for you efficiently (rather than it taking too long to pull enemies) is simple: at the start of the pull, taunt ranged adds first, then use Sap Essence immediately to draw the attention of melee, then business as usual. You needn't taunt every ranged add immediately; taunt one or two and proceed with managing the stack, then go back to taunting what remains after you have control.

paulsimonps

Autolycus wrote: »

I tend to agree with most of what @paulsimonps suggests when it comes to tanking, as I find we often reach the same conclusion about how best to serve the group (insert respectful nod here). The gear he suggests and the recommendation to go all 7 heavy armor are both accurate for a NB tank too.

The magicka recovery is probably not needed as a NB, however. If you find that it works really well for you, then you should definitely keep using it. If not, then take a look at the Sentinel of Rkugamz.

For dungeons specifically, Swarm Mother is a good option as a NB tank. The key to making Swarm Mother work for you efficiently (rather than it taking too long to pull enemies) is simple: at the start of the pull, taunt ranged adds first, then use Sap Essence immediately to draw the attention of melee, then business as usual. You needn't taunt every ranged add immediately; taunt one or two and proceed with managing the stack, then go back to taunting what remains after you have control.

Kerioko

For my dungeon sap tank I run:

- 5 Ebon Armor - sturdy belt, gloves, feet/ infused chest, legs/ all tri-stat
- 5 Worm/SPC/Spinner - jewelry, SnB (this set all depends on what gear the pug healer has)
- 2 Sentinel/Swarm Mother/Warden - both heavy or both light (depends on cost/regen balance)
- Master Resto -run on back bar for emergency springs

I try for 30K health, 30K magicka, 15K stam, 2K spell damage and 1500 regen with food.
I usually run between 25K and 28K resist when fully buffed.

Bars:
SnB - pierce, funnel, sap, shades, absorb magic, soul harvest
resto - inner fire, refreshing path, siphoning strikes, mirage, springs, warhorn (or veil)

Reason I run a damage set as a tank is because most of the NB heals are based on damage and also a sap tanks main source of sustain is spamming damage skills and light attack weaves.

I have been able to complete all HM dungeons with this set-up, running with 3 dps and no healer (SotH dungeons I usually have a templar dps with BoL).

I have also tanked all normal trials and regular vet trials with it (excluding vMOL, DK's are pretty much required for the twins).
For vet trials, I run ebon, dragon, bloodspawn. We have a medium armor DK dps/offtank that wears alkosh and powerful assault.

WalksonGraves

Autolycus wrote: »

I tend to agree with most of what @paulsimonps suggests when it comes to tanking, as I find we often reach the same conclusion about how best to serve the group (insert respectful nod here). The gear he suggests and the recommendation to go all 7 heavy armor are both accurate for a NB tank too.

The magicka recovery is probably not needed as a NB, however. If you find that it works really well for you, then you should definitely keep using it. If not, then take a look at the Sentinel of Rkugamz.

For dungeons specifically, Swarm Mother is a good option as a NB tank. The key to making Swarm Mother work for you efficiently (rather than it taking too long to pull enemies) is simple: at the start of the pull, taunt ranged adds first, then use Sap Essence immediately to draw the attention of melee, then business as usual. You needn't taunt every ranged add immediately; taunt one or two and proceed with managing the stack, then go back to taunting what remains after you have control.

What an amazing use of a monster set slot, making a single npc approach sometimes while clearing trash. You might as well run Infernal.

Stannum

1. Highly recommend you to use swarm mother and inner rage skill that gives you an oppotunity to gather all the ranged adds/trash for group AoE (as for me i allways use inner rage instead of puncture). So you you use inner rage instead of DK chains and sooner or later all the rangers will be pulled to you. On solo boss fights it's a good idea to change monster set for engine guardian that will give you incredible sustain. So you can solo almost any boss where mechanics allows to do it (i have soloed vhm Tempest island last boss when grouping tool gave me dying-all-the time group and i gave up to res them).
2. Resource managment. I used to play sap tank and can advise you to have 2k+ magika regen (with siphoning attacks tha will allow you to spam all the time getting stamina back even with permablocking). Orgoza drink (HP buff + magicka regen buff is very usefull for that). And i use 3stat armour enchants.
3. I tried to go 1h&sh/resto and double 1h&sh and found that double 1h&sh is more usefull (and i also dropped all the dmg shields from the setup as permablocking with healing (refreshing path + swallow soul) much more effective). I also use defencive tance on both bars for further dmg mitigation and reduce block cost.

Lynx7386

After running several dungeons last night I had to change this build, around a little. I went ahead and got rid of structured entropy (and somehow only lost 1k hp from it, still at 34k).

I tend to have some issues with builds that require frequent bar swapping. I either get confused in the middle of a fight which bar I'm on, or lag causes me to be firing off the wrong abilities.

In light of those issues, I changed my bars to have pierce, sap, strife, mirage, and siphoning attacks on my front bar, so all the tools I need for most encounters were readily available.
On the back bar I kept heroic slash and refreshing path, and tried out adding dark shades, blood altar, and impale. The groups I was running with were lower cp players that were having some issues with damage and healing, so adding shades and impale helped when bosses got lower on hp. Blood altar added some extra healing, primarily for me, so the healer could focus on keeping the dps alive.

In a better group I'll drop impale and shades for something else, maybe defensive posture and inner fire

Lynx7386

So tonight I put on the grothdar monster set because all I had to use otherwise was kraghs, and omg it meshes so will with a sap tank. Apparently sap essence spam and whirling firestorms were meant to be paired. I actually feel like I'm playing a damage dealer despite being the tank