Damage shields?

Xenofex

Hello,
Have not been playing for half a year. I have a questions about damage absorbing shields (daedric ward, harness magicka, etc..)

1) These shields still cannot be critically hit?
2) Resistance and penetration works the same way as for classical health bar?

Thanks!

Waffennacht

1.they cannot be critically hit, however splash damage can.
Example: You have a 5k Ward, Opponent uses 6k attack and it's a crit. The 5k from ward will not crit, but the remaining 1k dmg will. So in total you'll take 1.5k damage after ward (ignoring buffs etc)

2. For wards, no, absolutely 0 armor resistance or mitigation (from resistance) is applied to wards. Your 5k damage attack will deal a full 5k to ward.
However things like Pirate skeleton will prevent damage done to shields, only armor resistance is not applied to wards.

Xenofex

So the damage reduction effects from champion system (hardy, elemental defender, thick skinned) will apply on shields, correct?

paulsimonps

@Xenofex Read this. It will help you understand how resistance and mitigation works around damage shields.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-and-list-of-options/p1

Minalan

Xenofex wrote: »

So the damage reduction effects from champion system (hardy, elemental defender, thick skinned) will apply on shields, correct?

Yes, but so does the enemy damage CP (elemental expert, mighty, etc). So it's a wash.

So, Damage reduction is just bad not to have.

paulsimonps

Minalan wrote: »

Xenofex wrote: »

So the damage reduction effects from champion system (hardy, elemental defender, thick skinned) will apply on shields, correct?

Yes, but so does the enemy damage CP (elemental expert, mighty, etc). So it's a wash.

More than just CP effects damage taken before damage shields are effected. And having the CP there to eliminate the CP of others is worth it.

Minno

Xenofex wrote: »

So the damage reduction effects from champion system (hardy, elemental defender, thick skinned) will apply on shields, correct?

@paulsimonps posted the best link about how dmg is calculated.

Short answer: dmg reduction from champion points is calculated before hitting the shield. If a physical attack for 5k hits you, And you have 16% reduction from hardy, that attack will do 16% less dmg on your Shield.

Blocking/resistance values are calculated after your Shield. The resistance values get calculated with a specific equation to determine your dmg mitigation after an enemy penetrates some armor. This dmg mitigation is a percentage value, and I believe this gets multiplied with the dmg mitigation percentage from block.

dpencil

So considering the reduction of damage to shields via cp, what would be the optimal distribution between Bastion and the resistance stars?

paulsimonps

dpencil wrote: »

So considering the reduction of damage to shields via cp, what would be the optimal distribution between Bastion and the resistance stars?

Noooo, the resistance stars are really really bad. 100p into spell shield for example gives you 5281 resistance which equals 7.977% mitigation. 100p into elemental defender gives you 25% mitigation. I would never recommend anyone to go into the resistance stars. Even if they nerf the Elemental Defender and Hardy to like 15% or something(just an example not a rumor or fact). It gives more. I think in a PvP build its more important to lower the amount of damage your damage shield will be forced to absorb rather than lowering the damage taken after it is depleted.

dpencil

Sorry, I was talking about Elemental Defender and Hardy. Like...50 Ele, 50 Hardy, 100 Bastion?

Waffennacht

dpencil wrote: »

Sorry, I was talking about Elemental Defender and Hardy. Like...50 Ele, 50 Hardy, 100 Bastion?

100 bastion isn't efficient for most players. I think somewhere in the 40s low 50s is typically recommend.

Minno

Waffennacht wrote: »

dpencil wrote: »

Sorry, I was talking about Elemental Defender and Hardy. Like...50 Ele, 50 Hardy, 100 Bastion?

100 bastion isn't efficient for most players. I think somewhere in the 40s low 50s is typically recommend.

27 into bastion gets you a nice little shield boost of 10%. I'd say a minimum of 27 into bastion if you are thinking about using harness mag/hardened ward but maybe no points if you are a DK?

I know past 71 points into bastion didn't make sense since you lose out on the Hardy/defender stars.

Jsmalls

I've always done 45 into ele and Hardy and 90 into bastion personally. And it feels VERY strong. Reason being you have to split points between Hardy and Ele for general damage where points into Bastion shield you from all damage. I didn't run the numbers but that's what I always have felt comfortable running.

dpencil

What I mean is where do diminishing returns begin to favor spreading points out? Yes Bastion covers all dmg, but doesn't help when shields are down.

FriedEggSandwich

Minno wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

dpencil wrote: »

Sorry, I was talking about Elemental Defender and Hardy. Like...50 Ele, 50 Hardy, 100 Bastion?

100 bastion isn't efficient for most players. I think somewhere in the 40s low 50s is typically recommend.

27 into bastion gets you a nice little shield boost of 10%. I'd say a minimum of 27 into bastion if you are thinking about using harness mag/hardened ward but maybe no points if you are a DK?

I know past 71 points into bastion didn't make sense since you lose out on the Hardy/defender stars.

Agree. I pvp with 30cp in bastion, about 70 each in hardy and ele defender and about 30 in thick skinned. The way I see it 100cp in bastion = 2-3k more shield which I really don't feel is good value. At least 20% damage reduction from all sources at all times seems like much better value.

Waffennacht

dpencil wrote: »

What I mean is where do diminishing returns begin to favor spreading points out? Yes Bastion covers all dmg, but doesn't help when shields are down.

All the math was done before. I remember the thread, I specifically remember @Thelon stating an exact bastion number. You're correct there are diminishing returns.

Lord-Otto

Are you sure, @Waffennacht?

Every point in Bastion gives you spell and physical mitigation and stacks on top of your already given shield strength. Hardy and Elemental Defender only affect one damage type and get much worse the more you already invested, thanks to number-reduction diminishing returns.

Granted, H/ED are always active, but shields also give 100% crit resist, so the little bit increased shield can potentially mitigate an additional ~50%.

Can you find the thread, pretty please? =3 It'd be interesting to see Thelon's reasoning and evaluation of CP distribution.