Does implosion need addressing? Or better yet, complete re-work!?

STEVIL

Replace implosion with Overtime which allows 3s/6s delay for toggles turning off when you bar swap to bar without toggle slotted.

Waffennacht

It's fine where it is.

STEVIL wrote: »

Replace implosion with Overtime which allows 3s/6s delay for toggles turning off when you bar swap to bar without toggle slotted.

Nice.

I'd also kill for an instant non pet based heal. Or a cheaper clannfear cost. At this point I'd trade overload for plenty of things. Oh I'd love a targeted dot, a few less toggles.

I actually never notice implosion as a thing.

Chilly-McFreeze

It's fine where it is.

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

How much base Health do you need that 6-10k implosion dmg + skill dmg is needed to kill you if you already sit below 15%?

Btw there are some nasty ravage health poisons + sets and torugs centered builds out there, but that doesnt contribute to the topic.

You're completely ignoring the fact that someone has to actually 'do something' to hit that execute, in the same time, I can react with something.

@NeillMcAttack
I quote myself here, maybe you missed my post:

"Uh, you now that Implosion procs on dmg dealt to enemies in execute range. Like i said before: 15% of 25k hp = 3.75k. Means if that sorc hits you with eg force pulse, mages wrath, curse etc ,as he HAS TO in order to proc Implosion, you would be dead anyway. If this happens due to a dot or aoe, you just had bad luck to be within these enormous 6%. Nothing different from any poison, enchant or proc set."

Emphasis the part "procs on dmg dealt".

Domander

It's fine where it is.

If you have 30k health, 15% is 4.5k

6% chance to proc below that.....

It's fine.

Lylith

It's fine where it is.

sometimes i think we really need a 'rolleyes' emoticon.

leave it be, please.

NeillMcAttack

Complete overhaul, change the passive already.

Lylith wrote: »

sometimes i think we really need a 'rolleyes' emoticon.

leave it be, please.

Please!? You're pleading for it to be left alone!? Is it your inability to come up with something a little more practical. Something that actually offers the class something rather than a free PvP kill every now and then? Is it helpful DPS in PvE? No! What is it that is fine about it that wasn't fine with procsets!? I'll urge them to "please" leave it alone if you can explain why "rolls eyes" adds something to this discussion.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

How much base Health do you need that 6-10k implosion dmg + skill dmg is needed to kill you if you already sit below 15%?

Btw there are some nasty ravage health poisons + sets and torugs centered builds out there, but that doesnt contribute to the topic.

You're completely ignoring the fact that someone has to actually 'do something' to hit that execute, in the same time, I can react with something.

@NeillMcAttack
I quote myself here, maybe you missed my post:

"Uh, you now that Implosion procs on dmg dealt to enemies in execute range. Like i said before: 15% of 25k hp = 3.75k. Means if that sorc hits you with eg force pulse, mages wrath, curse etc ,as he HAS TO in order to proc Implosion, you would be dead anyway. If this happens due to a dot or aoe, you just had bad luck to be within these enormous 6%. Nothing different from any poison, enchant or proc set."

Emphasis the part "procs on dmg dealt".

Yes, then should hurricane deal physical damage? It's their source of major resolve and ward. Then all they are required to have is a gap closer and this buff and eventually it's going to secure kills for just being in a fight and removing others chance to react.

Im sorry, and I should have been aware that everyone now has a stam sorc, but for a PvP community to support changes to proc sets and not a passive proc chance, available on one class, that executes, shows serious signs of bias.

Biro123

Complete overhaul, change the passive already.

I've mained both stamsorc and magsorc mainly in PVP.

I find that its too unreliable to actually make use of - and when it does proc, 90% of the time, the target was dead anyway from endless fury.

It only really serves to annoy people when they see it in their death recap..

Get rid of it! And gives us a more reliable passive instead - perhaps a little dmg boost for wrath/fury if the target is over 50% health maybe - make up a little for not having a class spammable.. idk..

cschwingeb14_ESO

Complete overhaul, change the passive already.

An FYI for everyone, implosion checks health after the damage is dealt. Tested by hitting a mob for 90% of it's health, then it died to implosion.

Implosion also can trigger from DoT damage

It's more or less balanced on a magicka sorc, because magicka damage does not proc it. But the DoTs from a stam sorc increase the % chance of proc to a high degree

jeskah

It's fine where it is.

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

An FYI for everyone, implosion checks health after the damage is dealt. Tested by hitting a mob for 90% of it's health, then it died to implosion.

Implosion also can trigger from DoT damage

It's more or less balanced on a magicka sorc, because magicka damage does not proc it. But the DoTs from a stam sorc increase the % chance of proc to a high degree

Does it not have some kind of cooldown? Something along like 6% per second chance, no matter, how many dots, aoe-s you run?

WalksonGraves

jeskah wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

An FYI for everyone, implosion checks health after the damage is dealt. Tested by hitting a mob for 90% of it's health, then it died to implosion.

Implosion also can trigger from DoT damage

It's more or less balanced on a magicka sorc, because magicka damage does not proc it. But the DoTs from a stam sorc increase the % chance of proc to a high degree

Does it not have some kind of cooldown? Something along like 6% per second chance, no matter, how many dots, aoe-s you run?

The things that trigger it aren't dots, hurricane and blade cloak are high rof small dmg individual hits. Either way as said before, you are already dead at 15% hp it's just overkill damage. Literally beating a dead horse on this.

NeillMcAttack

Complete overhaul, change the passive already.

WalksonGraves wrote: »

jeskah wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

An FYI for everyone, implosion checks health after the damage is dealt. Tested by hitting a mob for 90% of it's health, then it died to implosion.

Implosion also can trigger from DoT damage

It's more or less balanced on a magicka sorc, because magicka damage does not proc it. But the DoTs from a stam sorc increase the % chance of proc to a high degree

Does it not have some kind of cooldown? Something along like 6% per second chance, no matter, how many dots, aoe-s you run?

The things that trigger it aren't dots, hurricane and blade cloak are high rof small dmg individual hits. Either way as said before, you are already dead at 15% hp it's just overkill damage. Literally beating a dead horse on this.

If your already dead at 15% then why not want something useful!?

WalksonGraves

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

jeskah wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

An FYI for everyone, implosion checks health after the damage is dealt. Tested by hitting a mob for 90% of it's health, then it died to implosion.

Implosion also can trigger from DoT damage

It's more or less balanced on a magicka sorc, because magicka damage does not proc it. But the DoTs from a stam sorc increase the % chance of proc to a high degree

Does it not have some kind of cooldown? Something along like 6% per second chance, no matter, how many dots, aoe-s you run?

The things that trigger it aren't dots, hurricane and blade cloak are high rof small dmg individual hits. Either way as said before, you are already dead at 15% hp it's just overkill damage. Literally beating a dead horse on this.

If your already dead at 15% then why not want something useful!?

mag doesn't need a buff

Firerock2

Complete overhaul, change the passive already.

"It's fine where it is!" - People who main sorc

Why would anyone playing an OP class not attempt to keep it that way? Implosion is just one part of the problem with Sorcs over performing in every aspect

Xvorg

Complete overhaul, change the passive already.

I built a hybrid sorc around implosion sometime ago. Bow + lightning.

Using curse + Mages fury + poison injection and an eventual frag, you can get the enemy under 15% health quite fast.

Besides that, I paired bow light attack with a shock glyph.

Yes, 12% chances of getting the enemy with implosion, lightning and physical dmg. 12K each in tooltip. 6K each in cyro. Even with 50% mitigation they do dmg.

And Im' not counting endless fury and poison injection executes.

IMHO that's too much for a class that increases wpn and spell dmg just by slotting class skills.

ostrapz

Complete overhaul, change the passive already.

It's funny how Noone in eso including the users were fans of proc damage with the proc sets but Noone sees a problem with a procced execute. I feel stamsorc benefits more than magsorc simply because the way fury execute works is so similar, although I don't like the way that execute worKS either. To the point a stamsorc has hurricane which means a constant source of dmg to proc implosion at the moment your health drops. While hitting some of you make %15 health out to be dead I find that when using light or medium armor that even in fights you win you take mass dmg easily. Op took over 8k damage in a heavy Ransack weave, meaning if he is at literally full hp with 20k he's been brought down to barely half, dawnbreaker after that and you are now in implosion range with a combo any1 in this forum can do and takes like 2seconds total to pull off, not to mention the attacker is in swordandboard and probably heavy as well. I'd like to see them still maintain a passive with use but proc damage is not cool. Noone ever goes " wow he outplayed me with that implosion". Aren't we all tired of eso rng?

WalksonGraves

ostrapz wrote: »

It's funny how Noone in eso including the users were fans of proc damage with the proc sets but Noone sees a problem with a procced execute. I feel stamsorc benefits more than magsorc simply because the way fury execute works is so similar, although I don't like the way that execute worKS either. To the point a stamsorc has hurricane which means a constant source of dmg to proc implosion at the moment your health drops. While hitting some of you make %15 health out to be dead I find that when using light or medium armor that even in fights you win you take mass dmg easily. Op took over 8k damage in a heavy Ransack weave, meaning if he is at literally full hp with 20k he's been brought down to barely half, dawnbreaker after that and you are now in implosion range with a combo any1 in this forum can do and takes like 2seconds total to pull off, not to mention the attacker is in swordandboard and probably heavy as well. I'd like to see them still maintain a passive with use but proc damage is not cool. Noone ever goes " wow he outplayed me with that implosion". Aren't we all tired of eso rng?

It's essentially useless and serves only to post big numbers on deathcaps so people like you can rage in the forum. Not having a real execute sucks, you try relying on 6% under 15%hp instead of 100% at 50% hp.

Cathexis

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I feel this passive is just total nonsense. As a magblade main, dropping below 15% health is common place in any fight that goes longer than 20 seconds. In fact you can expect it to happen many times over in a fight. It's in that period I can use my only reliable heal/defensive spell healing ward, or harness whilst waiting on my HOT's.
People will say keep your health above the threshold. As a light armour magblade, that simply is not possible. It's a case now where so many stam sorcs can just run heavy, S&B and keep dropping players below that 15% over and over and it will proc eventually.

Look at this and tell me it's ok where it's at!?

Poll needs a "damage increase option."

I don't think its bad where it is, but its easily out done by basic strategies.

Stam sorc damage is pisspoor without proc sets and you have 0 defensive utilities, implosion is essentially the one redeeming quality of running a stam sorc - and only barely, its a tiny % chance to get a hefty damage proc when a player gets low health. The class spec is essentially preying to RNGsus for a kill.

FriedEggSandwich

Maybe a re-balance.

Firerock2 wrote: »

"It's fine where it is!" - People who main sorc

Why would anyone playing an OP class not attempt to keep it that way? Implosion is just one part of the problem with Sorcs over performing in every aspect

To be fair the passive has been the same since launch iirc. It had a name change from disintergration to implosion but I'm 90% sure it's always been 6% (it might have started out as 4% though). It only really became an issue because of the increased use of dots by stam sorcs; multiple dots ticking will increase the chance of a proc. Before the stam sorc meta magsorcs hardly used dots, I would get a lucky disintergration kill once in a blue moon because some poor soul got too close to my boundless storm while in execute range. It always struck me as a bit cheesy but I had no issue with it because of how infrequent it was. If the passive is to be changed I, as a magsorc, would like to see something like it can only proc from direct damage and not dots or secondary effects. I would also accept a reduction in proc chance to 4%. One or the other though, not both. Sorcs have always been built on rng procs, hell even our main damaging skill works off a 30% proc chance. The rng proc is not the issue imo, the frequency of the proc might well be an issue though.

Edit: why do people fail to see the root issues behind these problems? Pets aside, sorcs (as a class) have hardly changed for patches. Destro staff gets an 8% damage buff and suddenly "omgz nerf sorcs". I see very little effort from people to try to work out what makes something op. This thread is a prime example; imlplosion procs too much so people want it removed lol. How about understanding why it now procs too much and tackle that ffs.

Speed_Kills

It's fine where it is.

If they would just make the explosion recap the same as the hp you lose no one would complain. Drop below 15%, die, see a 3k implosion there.... you don't complain. See a 10k implosion you complain, even though no one has 10k health at 15%hp. It isn't actually doing all of the damage it says it does, because that much damage isn't needed to kill a target at 15%hp.

An edit to my original post, I don't know what I was thinking. People would still complain, because people come up with excuses as to why they die.

lucky_Sage

Complete overhaul, change the passive already.

there should be no proc executes like there shouldn't be any burst aoe

KramUzibra

Complete overhaul, change the passive already.

Cathexis wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I feel this passive is just total nonsense. As a magblade main, dropping below 15% health is common place in any fight that goes longer than 20 seconds. In fact you can expect it to happen many times over in a fight. It's in that period I can use my only reliable heal/defensive spell healing ward, or harness whilst waiting on my HOT's.
People will say keep your health above the threshold. As a light armour magblade, that simply is not possible. It's a case now where so many stam sorcs can just run heavy, S&B and keep dropping players below that 15% over and over and it will proc eventually.

Look at this and tell me it's ok where it's at!?

Poll needs a "damage increase option."

I don't think its bad where it is, but its easily out done by basic strategies.

Stam sorc damage is pisspoor without proc sets and you have 0 defensive utilities, implosion is essentially the one redeeming quality of running a stam sorc - and only barely, its a tiny % chance to get a hefty damage proc when a player gets low health. The class spec is essentially preying to RNGsus for a kill.

Agreed so let's push for a more useful passive.

Cathexis

STEVIL wrote: »

Replace implosion with Overtime which allows 3s/6s delay for toggles turning off when you bar swap to bar without toggle slotted.

What.... This isn't even in the summoning line.

This would basically gut the remaining perks of the class from a stam perspective.

This is a huge, stupid nerf.

Go hit another class with the nerf bat and gtf off sorcs. How about you learn to play against it instead of crying.

Cathexis

KramUzibra wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I feel this passive is just total nonsense. As a magblade main, dropping below 15% health is common place in any fight that goes longer than 20 seconds. In fact you can expect it to happen many times over in a fight. It's in that period I can use my only reliable heal/defensive spell healing ward, or harness whilst waiting on my HOT's.
People will say keep your health above the threshold. As a light armour magblade, that simply is not possible. It's a case now where so many stam sorcs can just run heavy, S&B and keep dropping players below that 15% over and over and it will proc eventually.

Look at this and tell me it's ok where it's at!?

Poll needs a "damage increase option."

I don't think its bad where it is, but its easily out done by basic strategies.

Stam sorc damage is pisspoor without proc sets and you have 0 defensive utilities, implosion is essentially the one redeeming quality of running a stam sorc - and only barely, its a tiny % chance to get a hefty damage proc when a player gets low health. The class spec is essentially preying to RNGsus for a kill.

Agreed so let's push for a more useful passive.

It IS a useful passive, you just clearly don't understand WHY it is useful. If you want a more useful passive, boost the damage and execute cap. Stam sorc burst damage is currently the only thing it has going and it BARELY has that going without procs. This thread is a disguised nerf sorc thread. You want to take probably the one redeeming damage passive we have and replace it with what... Pet buffs??? GTFO of here. 3-6s delay should just be already built into pets. We shouldn't have to give up things for something so basic.

Cathexis

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

"It's fine where it is!" - People who main sorc

Why would anyone playing an OP class not attempt to keep it that way? Implosion is just one part of the problem with Sorcs over performing in every aspect

To be fair the passive has been the same since launch iirc. It had a name change from disintergration to implosion but I'm 90% sure it's always been 6% (it might have started out as 4% though). It only really became an issue because of the increased use of dots by stam sorcs; multiple dots ticking will increase the chance of a proc. Before the stam sorc meta magsorcs hardly used dots, I would get a lucky disintergration kill once in a blue moon because some poor soul got too close to my boundless storm while in execute range. It always struck me as a bit cheesy but I had no issue with it because of how infrequent it was. If the passive is to be changed I, as a magsorc, would like to see something like it can only proc from direct damage and not dots or secondary effects. I would also accept a reduction in proc chance to 4%. One or the other though, not both. Sorcs have always been built on rng procs, hell even our main damaging skill works off a 30% proc chance. The rng proc is not the issue imo, the frequency of the proc might well be an issue though.

Edit: why do people fail to see the root issues behind these problems? Pets aside, sorcs (as a class) have hardly changed for patches. Destro staff gets an 8% damage buff and suddenly "omgz nerf sorcs". I see very little effort from people to try to work out what makes something op. This thread is a prime example; imlplosion procs too much so people want it removed lol. How about understanding why it now procs too much and tackle that ffs.

The root issue is that people scream nerf sorc because they want them to be juicy easy one button targets.
Derps need to put on their big boy pants and *** man up and learn to build.

BohnT

Complete overhaul, change the passive already.

Cathexis wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Replace implosion with Overtime which allows 3s/6s delay for toggles turning off when you bar swap to bar without toggle slotted.

What.... This isn't even in the summoning line.

This would basically gut the remaining perks of the class from a stam perspective.

This is a huge, stupid nerf.

Go hit another class with the nerf bat and gtf off sorcs. How about you learn to play against it instead of crying.

Cathexis wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I feel this passive is just total nonsense. As a magblade main, dropping below 15% health is common place in any fight that goes longer than 20 seconds. In fact you can expect it to happen many times over in a fight. It's in that period I can use my only reliable heal/defensive spell healing ward, or harness whilst waiting on my HOT's.
People will say keep your health above the threshold. As a light armour magblade, that simply is not possible. It's a case now where so many stam sorcs can just run heavy, S&B and keep dropping players below that 15% over and over and it will proc eventually.

Look at this and tell me it's ok where it's at!?

Poll needs a "damage increase option."

I don't think its bad where it is, but its easily out done by basic strategies.

Stam sorc damage is pisspoor without proc sets and you have 0 defensive utilities, implosion is essentially the one redeeming quality of running a stam sorc - and only barely, its a tiny % chance to get a hefty damage proc when a player gets low health. The class spec is essentially preying to RNGsus for a kill.

Agreed so let's push for a more useful passive.

It IS a useful passive, you just clearly don't understand WHY it is useful. If you want a more useful passive, boost the damage and execute cap. Stam sorc burst damage is currently the only thing it has going and it BARELY has that going without procs. This thread is a disguised nerf sorc thread. You want to take probably the one redeeming damage passive we have and replace it with what... Pet buffs??? GTFO of here. 3-6s delay should just be already built into pets. We shouldn't have to give up things for something so basic.

Butthurt stam sorc detected. Sorc is the strongest class both pve and pvp wise with both specs.
The only redeeming damage passive? I think this extra wpn and shock damage just for slotting abilities is crap why would you want this?
0 defensive utilities? Oh my this is ridiculous you have your build in defence in a huge aoe that is stupidly strong. Streak is awesome for cc and for defence just use Streak twice and the enemy needs ~3 seconds to catch you.
You have arguably the easiest resource management with dark deal you don't need enemies around you to heal back to full.
You have increased movement speed which is a passive defence as well as you can't hit a running stam sorc with light attacks as he simply walks out of range.

For the others I can't remember when I died at 15% health and rahkat seems to be still alive when he's at 15% live and still wipes our group.
When you are at 15% health you can still heal or go in defence mode and the other player has to use 1 Gcd to try to kill me and I can try to survive with this gcd.

idk

It's fine where it is.

It is a 3% chance so it does not need to be reworked.. OP was just unlucky.

NeillMcAttack

Complete overhaul, change the passive already.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

It is a 3% chance so it does not need to be reworked.. OP was just unlucky.

It's a 6% chance. And why should such a small, or large chance, (depends how you look at it I guess) decide fights!?

The argument that it doesn't happen often enough isn't an argument. It just makes the passive look even more ridiculous tbf.

Joy_Division

Complete overhaul, change the passive already.

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

It is a 3% chance so it does not need to be reworked.. OP was just unlucky.

It's a 6% chance. And why should such a small, or large chance, (depends how you look at it I guess) decide fights!?

The argument that it doesn't happen often enough isn't an argument. It just makes the passive look even more ridiculous tbf.

In a fight against any sorcerer, stam or magicka, you can't let your health drop below 20%. It's just a feature of the class. You need to keep this in mind. Your opponent got your health down to a critical state against the class best able to exploit it. Not a big deal. Rez at wayshrine and try to do better next time.

CyrusArya

Cathexis wrote: »

implosion is essentially the one redeeming quality of running a stam sorc.

hahahahahahaha.

I guess unlimited sustain, the best mobility in the game, a PBAOE DoT that gives 2 lucrative buffs, and a 3rd skill bar aren't redeeming qualities. Not to mention the highest possible damage output as far as the numbers go. Listen man, idk how you personally play stam sorc, but in competent hands its probably still one of, if not the strongest spec in the game for open world PvP.

Am I saying it needs to be nerfed? No. But stop downplaying its strengths.

Speed_Kills

It's fine where it is.

CyrusArya wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

implosion is essentially the one redeeming quality of running a stam sorc.

hahahahahahaha.

I guess unlimited sustain, the best mobility in the game, a PBAOE DoT that gives 2 lucrative buffs, and a 3rd skill bar aren't redeeming qualities. Not to mention the highest possible damage output as far as the numbers go. Listen man, idk how you personally play stam sorc, but in competent hands its probably still one of, if not the strongest spec in the game for open world PvP.

Am I saying it needs to be nerfed? No. But stop downplaying its strengths.

#stamsorcmeta