Why can't we get a public auction house?

TalonKnight

The main reason is cause all the greedy guild leaders that screw their members over with raffles would be pissed if there were a 1 AH.

Tryxus

Auction House, a new player home coming soon with Homestead

Elsonso

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

"Auction House. There's been some questions about whether that's something we're ever going to consider. It's not something that we plan on considering. While global auction houses would be convenient, they are not ideal for the economy of the game, so it's not something that we're planning to do."
--Jason Leavey, ESO Live #15, April 10, 2015

"No. Sorry."
--Gina Bruno, ESO Live #15, April 10, 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D0_q6cfhsE

I think we all agree on this though : Where is Jason and his amazing hair?

Last I saw, he was off in Bethesda Land wreaking havoc with forum denizens over there. Edit: Yup, still over there.

DaveMoeDee

Yoga.isDrunk wrote: »

Every mmo I have played has public auction houses except this one which seems determined to cater to theElitists most of which transferred from pc and destroyed the economy on console. You treat people the same way our Government does, to hell with the little guy as long as the Elitist rich are happy.

Some might say that the problem is people blaming the system instead of learning the system and using it to their own advantage.

stevesherpa

RedWarrior72 wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

TheStealthDude wrote: »

The "elites" can manipulate a central auction house much easier than the guild trader system.

Not really, it's the same either way. It's actually better for the "Elites" to take advantage of this system than an open auction house cause they have the rights to sell in the most populated areas as the rest of the game does not.

Anyone can sell. There is a reason that there are always traders that don't get bid on. There is a reason that there are always spots open in the prime location trade guilds I am in. So no, anyone can participate in the current system if they choose to.

By the open spots in the prime location trade guild I am in it is obvious that everyone doesn't wish to sell in the main trade locations.

Yeah, but how does one new person manage to give a guild bank 30-50k a week as payment for the trader if they just started?

New players / returning players would have a much better time using a server wide market place to do business than to upkeep a guild trader like that in a prime location. Not sure why everyone's against this auction house idea its working in every single MMO to date, and not one has changed it.

New and returning players that do not have a couple of hundred thousand are the ones hurt by not having at least a central auction hub. This game has gone from a few hundred thousand die hard lovers of it in which the guild system worked, to over 3 million with the release of the console version, and every one of those new players had to either join a guild or grind their behinds off, or both, in order to even get the basic stuff needed to level any profession or have just a little better gear to work with.

I used to play WoW, 9 years in it in fact, and I was not an elite AH person, but yet in the first few months I had well over a million gold. It was not because their were no elite AH masters, but because they always stuck to the rarest stuff, unlike in ESO, that the low end stuff was cheap and easy to get for either crafting or flipping. There it was just that instead of having to go all over the world to find a good deal, (and lets face it, most people do not want to do that), WoW had centralized AH that allowed people to play the game and just buy the low priority stuff they needed in stead of having to spend hours looking for it like they have to in ESO. Not saying that ESO needs to be more like WoW, but dang.........at least it was easy to get the stuff that you needed and quickly.

OMG, the very concept of a world where there is not intermet inside of it, where materials had to be farmed and not found in a :globally connected auction house" - why not just have electricity instead of fires or nuclear weapons to kill the world bosses? It would be easier

I_killed_Vivec

cspinasdf wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

TheStealthDude wrote: »

The "elites" can manipulate a central auction house much easier than the guild trader system.

Not really, it's the same either way. It's actually better for the "Elites" to take advantage of this system than an open auction house cause they have the rights to sell in the most populated areas as the rest of the game does not.

Anyone can sell. There is a reason that there are always traders that don't get bid on. There is a reason that there are always spots open in the prime location trade guilds I am in. So no, anyone can participate in the current system if they choose to.

By the open spots in the prime location trade guild I am in it is obvious that everyone doesn't wish to sell in the main trade locations.

Yeah, but how does one new person manage to give a guild bank 30-50k a week as payment for the trader if they just started?

New players / returning players would have a much better time using a server wide market place to do business than to upkeep a guild trader like that in a prime location. Not sure why everyone's against this auction house idea its working in every single MMO to date, and not one has changed it.

I'm in 4 guilds that consistently get traders(each has higher than 75% weekly). Two require a sales of 5k and 10k a week, only donations if you can't make that amount. That's not hard. Nirnroot goes for about 300 each, so that's 17, and 34 a week. Columbine is about 200 so that's 25, and 50 a week. Raw iron ore goes for about 30 each, so that's 1 or 2 stacks a week. Even for a new player that isn't a huge requirement, and are amounts you can easily get questing. My other two guilds without dues have worse locations, an outlaws refuge and hollow city. Still any trader is better than no trader, and they can afford it without dues or sales requirement. Though I'm on PC NA, so probably the prices are a little different based on where you play.

I'm in two trading guilds.

One is a "casual" outfit, not interested in trying too hard, but always getting one of the lesser traders. No subs.

The other is more ambitious and usually gets a capital city trader. They run a 1000 gold a week lottery, winner gets 250k, the rest goes to trading funds.

Neither of these guilds has any conditions on minimum sales.

The idea that guilds are for the elite so that they can manipulate prices is not what I have experienced.

ookami007

CapnPhoton wrote: »

Yes this. In 2 other games I played with a global auction system it was heavily manipulated and hard to make any money. With 1000 of the same item in one place, you make pennies on the dollar for things. Plus, the booths are more realistic for the technology represented in the ESO game world. A global one stop shopping location connecting multiple vendors is a modern day thing, and not at all realistic for tamriel. I don't see any department stores, computers, or linked inventory with point of sale systems, therefore a global auction house would be lore breaking, would it not?

PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! Do not even TRY to use the "realistic" or "immersive" argument. They FAIL horribly considering how many things in the game are neither realistic NOR immersive.

Case in point, how does EVERY SINGLE FREAKING GUARD immediately know my bounty, my description (even when in polymorph) IN ALL OF TAMRIEL?!

So please... realistic and immersive ARE NOT VALID ARGUMENTS.

Absalon

Because, the current Trading Shop system protects the economy, lets see why:

Things that matters on General Auction Houses:
- Price (the one with the lowest price wins).

Things that matters on the current Trading Shop system:
- Price;
- Time (to look for shops);
- Patience (to keep looking for shops);
- Convenience (guilds you belong to);
- Shop location (closiest to shrine or in most populated areas)

So, as you can see, the current system has many factors the contribute to avoid market manipulation. Also, it's kind of cool if you look from a roleplaying perspective as you need to travel to another regions looking for the stuff you need.

ThePonzzz

I do find it funny that the reasoning we won't have a global auction house is to safeguard the economy... But BoP and the lack of a crafter's market kills it far more.

Kodrac

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Yeah, but how does one new person manage to give a guild bank 30-50k a week as payment for the trader if they just started?

Are you just pulling this stuff out of your ass or what? There are zero (0) guilds recruiting newbs and demanding 30k a week in donations. You've been consistently wrong on these things and you consistently exaggerate. We get it - you have an agenda. You want to park your butt in front of a kiosk so you can buy low and sell high with no effort all day long like you do in SWTOR. You can do that here too you just have to put effort into it, It's the effort you don't like.

Demycilian

Trade guilds are one of the least desireable ESO features. Sadly, ZoS chose to ignore our opinion on the matter.

Tandor

Artemiisia wrote: »

was wondering if the one week of posting this was gone, havent seen a new thread about it in two weeks !!!

its quite simple, this game has a unique and special trading system, that stands out from other mmos, which makes this game so great and special, that it dont follow the same way all the time of other mmos.

The fact that the trading system is unique and special doesn't, unfortunately, necessarily mean that it is better. As such, the game would be even greater and more special if it had a more effective trading system open to all. That doesn't have to be a public auction house, it just needs to be an opened-up version of the existing system with a NPC trader in each main trading location open to those not in the few successful trading guilds and through whom players could list a few items at a higher commission rate shared between the guilds trading in that location. For sellers, the present system's exclusivity is its main disadvantage while for buyers the lack of a proper search function and the need to travel the world to find what you want could be simply remedied by having a global search function coupled with the option to travel to the seller to make your purchase, or at a significantly higher charge to have it automatically mailed to you.

The present system makes a lot of money for the few, and serves no purpose to the many. Any half-decent MMO needs a proper working economy at the heart of which is an effective trading system open to all. The fact that this game is so much more than a half-decent MMO makes it all the more disappointing and frustrating that it has a broken economy barely propped up by a restricted trading system.

stevesherpa

ThePonzzz wrote: »

I do find it funny that the reasoning we won't have a global auction house is to safeguard the economy... But BoP and the lack of a crafter's market kills it far more.

The BoP is exactly what can make a crafters market - if the market allowed you to list entire sets...the trader guilda work well in concept - but there are no search variable for say "deaths wind set" which will allow you to tailor your "packaged" set based on trait and pieces. Hell, you cant even list your piece as a Helm of Deaths Wind , it just says "rubedite helm"
THAT is the part they need to fix, to make the trader guild market more searchable and use able

CromulentForumID

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

TheStealthDude wrote: »

The "elites" can manipulate a central auction house much easier than the guild trader system.

Not really, it's the same either way. It's actually better for the "Elites" to take advantage of this system than an open auction house cause they have the rights to sell in the most populated areas as the rest of the game does not.

Anyone can sell. There is a reason that there are always traders that don't get bid on. There is a reason that there are always spots open in the prime location trade guilds I am in. So no, anyone can participate in the current system if they choose to.

By the open spots in the prime location trade guild I am in it is obvious that everyone doesn't wish to sell in the main trade locations.

You actually can't make that argument until there is a way for a player to search for guilds with open spots, or a "Guild finder" for lack of a better term. Open spots right now don't speak to anything other than the guild recruitment messages did not reach the players who would want to join.

Your guild may recruit on the forums, but does every guild with open spots? Do those guilds with open spots use zone chat to recruit? If so, which zone?

It's very possible that someone who wants to be in a trade guild just has no idea how to go about joining that guild. It's not obvious whom to message. Not all players use the forum. So, really, you can try to boil it all down to "they choose not to trade." But you'd be wrong.

I'll head your probable next argument off now. I am not saying it is too hard, or impossible, or anything else. I'm saying you can't point to open spots and say they are not filled because no one is interested in filling them.

Ask yourself this: if you were not in these guilds so you could see the open spots, how would you know there is room? As a player not in the guild, how would it be obvious?

Dragonking06

TheStealthDude wrote: »

The "elites" can manipulate a central auction house much easier than the guild trader system.

This. THIS is why there isn't a central auction house. With the guild traders the market is more competitive.

Now for the love of The Eight, stop asking.


TL;DR: Guild Traders > Central Auction House.

CromulentForumID

stevesherpa wrote: »

RedWarrior72 wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

TheStealthDude wrote: »

The "elites" can manipulate a central auction house much easier than the guild trader system.

Not really, it's the same either way. It's actually better for the "Elites" to take advantage of this system than an open auction house cause they have the rights to sell in the most populated areas as the rest of the game does not.

Anyone can sell. There is a reason that there are always traders that don't get bid on. There is a reason that there are always spots open in the prime location trade guilds I am in. So no, anyone can participate in the current system if they choose to.

By the open spots in the prime location trade guild I am in it is obvious that everyone doesn't wish to sell in the main trade locations.

Yeah, but how does one new person manage to give a guild bank 30-50k a week as payment for the trader if they just started?

New players / returning players would have a much better time using a server wide market place to do business than to upkeep a guild trader like that in a prime location. Not sure why everyone's against this auction house idea its working in every single MMO to date, and not one has changed it.

New and returning players that do not have a couple of hundred thousand are the ones hurt by not having at least a central auction hub. This game has gone from a few hundred thousand die hard lovers of it in which the guild system worked, to over 3 million with the release of the console version, and every one of those new players had to either join a guild or grind their behinds off, or both, in order to even get the basic stuff needed to level any profession or have just a little better gear to work with.

I used to play WoW, 9 years in it in fact, and I was not an elite AH person, but yet in the first few months I had well over a million gold. It was not because their were no elite AH masters, but because they always stuck to the rarest stuff, unlike in ESO, that the low end stuff was cheap and easy to get for either crafting or flipping. There it was just that instead of having to go all over the world to find a good deal, (and lets face it, most people do not want to do that), WoW had centralized AH that allowed people to play the game and just buy the low priority stuff they needed in stead of having to spend hours looking for it like they have to in ESO. Not saying that ESO needs to be more like WoW, but dang.........at least it was easy to get the stuff that you needed and quickly.

OMG, the very concept of a world where there is not intermet inside of it, where materials had to be farmed and not found in a :globally connected auction house" - why not just have electricity instead of fires or nuclear weapons to kill the world bosses? It would be easier

This idea kind of falls apart when we jump into magical portals to move around the world on a regular basis. And where our personal bank is accessible no matter which banker we talk to.

Given the game world, would it really be that ridiculous if we used a portal to get to one giant building that was the centralized auction house?

Note: This post is not advocating for a change to the trading system. I am merely commenting on the interesting arguments used against it.

alexkdd99

ookami007 wrote: »

CapnPhoton wrote: »

Yes this. In 2 other games I played with a global auction system it was heavily manipulated and hard to make any money. With 1000 of the same item in one place, you make pennies on the dollar for things. Plus, the booths are more realistic for the technology represented in the ESO game world. A global one stop shopping location connecting multiple vendors is a modern day thing, and not at all realistic for tamriel. I don't see any department stores, computers, or linked inventory with point of sale systems, therefore a global auction house would be lore breaking, would it not?

PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! Do not even TRY to use the "realistic" or "immersive" argument. They FAIL horribly considering how many things in the game are neither realistic NOR immersive.

Case in point, how does EVERY SINGLE FREAKING GUARD immediately know my bounty, my description (even when in polymorph) IN ALL OF TAMRIEL?!

So please... realistic and immersive ARE NOT VALID ARGUMENTS.

Maybe they are telepathic guards? Just because 1 thing isn't immersive doesn't mean we should make more, after all some people enjoy their immersion.

Rohamad_Ali

It's time for an Auction Horse .

Heroeric1337

Sure, a auction house would benefit buyers, but would hurt sellers. If anything, seeing you can't simply buy something cheap or perhaps take some time to find a decent seller might often give you drive to try to earn it the hard way, which increases liveliness of the game.

idk

Yoga.isDrunk wrote: »

Every mmo I have played has public auction houses except this one which seems determined to cater to theElitists most of which transferred from pc and destroyed the economy on console. You treat people the same way our Government does, to hell with the little guy as long as the Elitist rich are happy.

Omg lol. A thread either has to say the game caters to elitists or to casuals. Obviously a laughable way to try to get attention.

What is even funnier is how does a game cater to elitists. Elitists os an artitude often held by average or sub average players.

Anyhow, stepping aside to permit the vocal minority to voice their oppinion against the highly successful and enjoyed guild traders keep going strong.

Katahdin

Demycilian wrote: »

Trade guilds are one of the least desireable ESO features (FOR SOME PEOPLE). Sadly, ZoS chose to ignore (THOSE THAT FAVOR A GAH) opinion on the matter.

Fixed that for you.

You do not speak for the whole playerbase.
Not every one wants a global auction house, SOME do. Lots of people like the current system.

I know people that hugely manipulated the AH in GW2 and made millions..

austinwalter87ub17_ESO

Yoga.isDrunk wrote: »

Every mmo I have played has public auction houses except this one which seems determined to cater to theElitists most of which transferred from pc and destroyed the economy on console. You treat people the same way our Government does, to hell with the little guy as long as the Elitist rich are happy.

As someone who studies history and government power. All tyrannical systems come to be due to centralized money and power. A centralized location or hub results in a monopoly of resources and power.

ESO'S guild trader system is a decentralized trading system. It prevents a monopoly of both power and resources. All those past Mmos with a centralized auction system allows certain individuals to achieve a monopoly on specific resources and even location. It inflates the market economy, and many gold sellers want an inflated economy. As the price of goods becomes so expensive players lose incentive to grind gold for the items in question. So they turn to gold sellers. Initially the gold sellers will deflate the economy through undercutting everyone, until the competition fades away. Then they jack up prices.

ZOS chose this trading system primarily to combat gold sellers

smackysmacks

I'm new to the game and i'm really struggling with the whole AH system. How does one join a good trade guild? I mean seriously. I joined a few that were advertised in local chat but none of them win/get a trader spot so I cant even trade with them. They want everyone to donate money to score the trade spot but it doesn't happen for whatever reason. I don't have much money because im new. I've yet to be in a trade guild that actually gets a spot so I reasoned that any money i give is literally just going straight into someones new house. It's been a painful road to try to sell my stuff and despite trying i still haven't actually been able to even put up something to sell, let alone sell it.

I'm sure the system works great for those fortunate enough to be in whatever trade group you are in. But for noobs like me the whole system sucks balls. Not saying a global AH is the answer but having a system where you have to somehow find a way to join some secret cult to sell your stuff is meh. I have pretty much given up and just vendor my stuff because i'm over it.

The_Smilemeister

Yoga.isDrunk wrote: »

Every mmo I have played has public auction houses except this one which seems determined to cater to theElitists most of which transferred from pc and destroyed the economy on console. You treat people the same way our Government does, to hell with the little guy as long as the Elitist rich are happy.

Hey dude, how about you focus on making amendments to a system that works instead of ask for something else that can throw the whole economy into crisis? It it ain't broke don't fix it.

And what do you mean the current system caters to elitists? Any system can be exploited by elitists, moron! The big difference being that you can take out elitists with the guild trader kiosk system by out bidding them. Players have more power as the system is less centralised, allowing independent guilds to directly compete with these so called "elitists" much more effectively.

Unless you have an answer to combat elitism in an auction house, or you want to bring forward suggestions to improve the current system...

bitels wrote: »

For everyone else, I say we sit back, relax, grab some popcorn and an empty salt shaker and prepare for the inevitable triggered responses.

djdc1234

ITS VERY SIMPLE NOW! DO NOT BUY EXPENSIVE ITEMS.. INSTEAD SHOP AROUND. now that you dont have to manually type in what you are looking for at each guild trader prices will come down and they have. i just have to type what im looking for once and i can port to each trader, so now i dont have to settle for that one guy selling xp pots for 4000+ gold.

thanks to the new system when i shop around i find things often for half price. Example- Health Essence Tri Pots the good ones in stacks of 100 i see people trying to sell for up to 20k.. i shop around and find them for 5k. or ask my guild mates to make them discounted even more or free.

Perfect row is much cheaper now too like 4k in some spots. im on xbox.

johu31

I was wondering when the weekly auction house post was going to come up.. no thanks though.

AlnilamE

Yoga.isDrunk wrote: »

Every mmo I have played has public auction houses except this one which seems determined to cater to theElitists most of which transferred from pc and destroyed the economy on console. You treat people the same way our Government does, to hell with the little guy as long as the Elitist rich are happy.

If this is the only MMO out there that doesn't have an Auction House, why do you want to take that away from me?

I like the trader system with all its quirks (though I think the interface needs an overhaul, which would greatly help console players).

thisisScoMan

Why does every MMO have to have what every other MMO has? Why can't each MMO be its own game?



I'm in 2 trading guilds, neither of which has been able to secure a spot for the last two weeks, and I still don't see the need for an auction house.

I don't know why we all just have to play "follow the leader" and do what everyone else is doing.

I like that ESO has a trading system that requires a bit of time and effort. If you don't want to put the time & effort if, if you want to spend your time questing or doing trials, that's fine, that's your choice.

But some people like to play the trading game, and that is their choice.

And you are not entitled to take that away from them.

AlnilamE

stevesherpa wrote: »

I am hoping this helps explain things a little bit. Since I played WoW for a lot of years and proved how easy it is to ruin an economy of scale in an MMO just by doing it, there was obviously quite a bit of thought into the idea of guild traders in this one.

First, economies of scale (I am sure after my first 140 characters, this is a TL;DR one) - all that really means is the economies scale to the society. We, in ESO, are trying to apply western style economics of a real good based system, into a virtual world. Those AH's in games like WoW and evercrack. Why this doesnt work - because those economies can be ruined very easily. Lets take leather scraps for example - applying the "free market" economic rules to it, the one who sells at the lowest price will always get picked first and it follows supply and demand theory. Then the next lowest, then the next. And so on. Generally, these prices stay very close to one another....A stack of 200 scraps for 1000 gold....next one is 1100, and so on. Well, this is all fine if everyone follows that trend - but what is stopping me from getting on and farming 10 stacks of 200 and selling it at 100 per stack?

The immediate answer is what I invested in it, right? No. Because we cant applie a real goods economy of scale into a virtual one. We arent talking about skinning real animals, putting real work inm investing in real tools, etc. In a virtual world, the only true investment is the time. What I am losing by spending 3 hours farming those scraps on a cartoon character? Nothing...but I can sure as hell kill the economy and the whole craft system (because now everyone can afford scraps to make them master crafts and sell the best gear" everyone is now equal. At that point, there really is no point in selling anymore because the market was flooded - and no real work was put in.

How do guild traders resolve that? because the market is dispersed. You have to invest the time into "finding the best prices for virtual goods and materials" which often results in "screw it, I dont feel like wasting time running around to every guild trader to save a few gold" - so you cannot severely undercut the market because they market isn't that connected (well imagine that, tamerial has no internet, so we can search an entire world for the best price - hmm, neat concept). The guild traders are ultimately "store fronts" and in fact, help tamper the the accumulation of wealth to corner the markets - which ultimately makes gold farming of these gold selling leeches, very hard to do and not profitable. How? Making guild compete at 3, 4 and 5 million a piece per week, keeps the currency "moving" in the virtual economy. So it doesnt behoove anyone to acquire so much wealth to where it is worth to sell it to one person. And items that cost a lot, cant be horded and the price controlled because it is too much of a hassle to see who is selling what and for how much. Again - this is designed as such in a virtual world where we dont have sales force software (or any electronics).

So in essence, this works 3exactly how an economy of scale should work in a virtual medieval fantasy world should.

I would like to have this post framed.

Yetizai

Personally I hate the guild trader system as it currently is. I get the ideas behind it (supposedly but they don't seem to work in practice.) For me I have a job, family, etc. I already need to spend time on crafting dailies and dungeons etc which are great. But to spend hours on end to travel around the map to look for some single item I might need because the game RNG hates me makes this system even less appealing. Ok it actually makes it appalling. Much less finding a guild, paying weekly dues, etc/

The laughable "reasons" aside (like it's not realistic, show me a single orc throwing fireballs in real life). There is a very real way I think we could all be happy. That is keep the local traders as is and add a global "black market" auction house. Make it available in say the thieves guild locations. Say the same 30 slots per person but the house takes 10% of list price and another 15% if it sells. Also no ending sales early. Thus you pay for the ease of use through loss of gold but you also don't have to be part of a trade guild and have "worldwide" market.

No matter what though the current system search needs some attention as it is a horribly broken part or a bad feature. Ohh and before you say its fine remember XBox has no add-ons that address fixing the crap system.