Remove training and prosperous drops?

Gordon906

Remove it.

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

If training and prosperous won't drop any more... how we will be supposed to research it ...?

Dolmens and zones.

STEVIL

Keep it.

Traits need to be fixed not removed. getting powered or charged for your DPS char is not really that much better than training or prosperous. Getting sturdy on your BSW set not much better either.

As for drops, i would like to see (as part of a significant trait redesign) the player to be able to select "drop preference" ranking trait groups (dps, healer, tank) in priority 1-2-3 and that significantly influencing the drop rates within a category. Say a 60-30-10% split.

For the traits themselves - no trait should be best everywhere and every trait should be best somewhere.

EDIT to add food for thought - at least a chicken nugget's worth:
DPS-Healer-Tank = 3 roles
Solo-Group-PVP = 3 content types
3x3=9 traits.

Gordon906

Remove it.

STEVIL wrote: »

Traits need to be fixed not removed. getting powered or charged for your DPS char is not really that much better than training or prosperous. Getting sturdy on your BSW set not much better either.

As for drops, i would like to see (as part of a significant trait redesign) the player to be able to select "drop preference" ranking trait groups (dps, healer, tank) in priority 1-2-3 and that significantly influencing the drop rates within a category. Say a 60-30-10% split.

For the traits themselves - no trait should be best everywhere and every trait should be best somewhere.

EDIT to add food for thought - at least a chicken nugget's worth:
DPS-Healer-Tank = 3 roles
Solo-Group-PVP = 3 content types
3x3=9 traits.

Sturdy and powered traits are important for tanks and healers. And prosperous plus training serves no role in builds nor combat. So you are tellng me that you would go training and prosperous in your monster sets?

Mystrius_Archaion

Remove it.

Gordon906 wrote: »

All dungeon set drops and undaunted chest will no longer have prosperous and training traits.

They used to be good, when they affected all xp or gold and, as for training, was nice to affect the specific skill line more.

I would go one further and say a lot of the traits are useless and should be removed. For example:

Sturdy: reduces block cost by 4% per item at gold quality. This is pitiful as each block costs the same amount not based on damage so that a bunch of weak enemies blow through your stamina like it was nothing while you wait for the big hit you really want to block that is winding up. Not to mention nobody chooses this over other more useful or more desirable traits, if they know what they are doing.

Well-fitted: reduce the cost of roll dodging and sprinting by 5% per piece at gold. About the only thing this is used for is either out of combat(pointless as you can't switch gear as soon as you or your group get aggro) or perma-roll builds that are being balanced against such that this ends up being too weak to be of use.

Nirnhoned vs Reinforced for armor: this number varies but definitely provides the exact same bonus to resistances as reinforced does but reinforced is a percentage bonus that actually affects overall resistance more.
2 traits doing the exact same thing, but needing to be different, never works. One is always inferior. I've done the calculations since I was considering it.

Sharpened vs Nirnhoned for weapons: supposedly sharpened gives about 8% more damage to attacks striking that enemy, but nirnhoned gives 11% since weapon damage total affects the base spell/weapon damage and thus all damage by the same amount. The only isseu is sharpened falls off on weaker enemies without enough resistances to dig into. Zero is zero after all.
2 traits doing nearly the exact same thing again with one being superior in almost every situation.

Charged: increase chance to apply status affects by ? How much does this really work? We don't even know the base statistic outright to evaluate it properly. Status affects aren't even useful against the enemies we really need things like that against anyway, bosses or other tough guys. Sure it works for burning, but if you're counting on anything like that then you have a guaranteed way of making it happen with a skill anyway, and it still is less useful than a direct damage buff.


A lot of stats are "binary" in this game, like any other game, where they aren't useful enough until a certain point where they become useful and then you may not need anymore after that. An example of this is any random chance that is rather uncommon until you build it up enough that it somehow switches over to guaranteed. Flip a coin. It will always be heads or tails but if you can control the odds of heads vs tails then switching it from 50% heads to 60% heads doesn't have as great an effect as up to 66% heads. The first would even out at 3 out of 5 for 60% while 66% manages to push it to 2 out of 3, practically guaranteed nearly twice as common. Sure, they may be nearly equal mathematically at 9/15 vs 10/15, but sample size also affects it as if all you need is 3 heads to win then you win faster for 66%.
Status effects are the worst offender. Who cares about stuns and knockbacks and disorient when most enemies are so weak that it doesn't matter and the ones tough enough to matter are immune. I miss control actually being stackable and mattering in City of Heroes. Oh well.


The whole stat system needs a remake anyway, in my opinion.
I don't know how many times I've wanted to throw on a big axe and run in with it flaming, or conjure an axe made of fire, to run in and "wreck face" then realized that most of my healing and defense, and just flashy cool powers I need or want to use, are magicka based, and axes don't regenerate magicka, which made me sad and drop that idea.

Why do we even have 2 stat pools to draw from for skill attacks?
I can understand a mechanical difference between physical and magic attacks, but wouldn't the energy for the character come from the same place, their willpower(be it mental or physical effort), and drive their abilities based on that focus anyway?
I always liked games where you weren't just dead once you ran out of resources also. You should still have a fighting chance given the right tactics even if you're drained of your "kill'em faster juice".

Something just seems wrong with allowing us to weapon swap without allowing that weapons to benefit us as much as it needs to(since we can't switch gear entirely also) and forcing us to change skills and stop using our most fun ones.
It's also very funny that ranged weapons provide the magicka needed for powers such as the dragonknight "inhale" skill that then breaths fire out 2.5 seconds later, requiring decent time "in the death zone" for ranged characters.

Build and "play as you want"? Not in this game. You have to choose magicka or stamina, ranged or mostly melee(bows being the anomaly).
Where are the one-handed magicka weapons and the melee magicka weapons? Where are the one-handed ranged stamina weapons or thrown melee weapons? What if we were to dual-wield a ranged and a melee weapon? Could we have our gamepad triggers change from blocking with the left trigger to attacking with the left weapon like old games such as Halo 2?
That sounds like a lot of fun and a drastically different play style option.

TL;DR Wishful thinking.

Mystrius_Archaion

Remove it.

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

As unpopular this sounds but the traits need to stay in the loot table. They are there to bring the average chance to get a "good" trait to a specific value. It's meant to keep us playing the game.

If every trait was good then the average would still be the same.

Why are people justifying "trash" as if it is necessary to get the good stuff?
Sure, the saying is "how would you know the light if not for the dark", but each has different value to each person, like a rainbow. We can have different colors without needing to have the absence of color.
The more is good the more we play the game. It's like multiple sticks with carrots rather than one long stick with a carrot that takes longer to reach but we still reach it. And if we have multiple carrots with our limited storage then we have to choose which to keep and if we change our minds we have to get the other carrot again. That's how to keep people playing.

There are way too many "justified by nostalgia" systems and themes that need to be updated or replaced.
Do we ride horses everywhere anymore? No, we have cars to replace them.
Do we carry calculators or wear watches or carry cameras anymore? For the most part, no, because we have smartphones that do it all.

Do we need 6(9) stats on one side and 8 stats on the other to determine one final number, how long it takes to "whittle down an unmoving tree"(dumb AI enemy)? That is max magicka/stamina, spell/weapon damage, crit damage and crit chance to determine the damage done per hit with the magicka/stamina recovery and animation time to determine how many hits resulting in one number that governs all, "damage per second". Then the other side, armor, resistance, shields, dodge chance, crit resistance, health recovery, heals and health, all to represent just health and "health per second recovered".
No, the same could be accomplished with much fewer numbers. Just condense all the weapon/spell and "stamina/magicka stats into one overall "resource buff" to cut a lot of the extras out. Combine armor and resistance into just resistance, no middle-man stat. Heals probably are too powerful to really exist, and don't make sense that you can magically replace a hacked off limb in an instant either.


If I had designed the combat system:
I would have had health be a sort of magical shield. This shield regenerates over time like any first person shooter these days with regenerating health, like health recovery. The shield's strength is affected by armor quality/level. When this health/shield is gone it teleports you back to a safe point, either with your group(maybe requiring them to be safe or have a wait time if not) or at the wayshrine/fallback point.
As for damage, I would have only a few necessary components. Obviously need a base damage level affected by the weapon quality/level. The weapon type's animation speed, and whether it is held/charged or just clicked, would modify the damage output.

Now to make it more interesting:
Give a way for other players to add shielding to each other by way off something like the current siege shields and pull off a "shield jumpstart"/magical transfer as a resurrect.
For damage, status effects would actually mean something. This would require a little coordination to focus fire on specific enemies and stack stuns or debuffs to bring down a single enemy quicker, either the most threatening enemy or just to reduce the amount of foes.
Players would still have the option to "gear up" for either straight up higher shields and damage or shield regeneration and status effects or any combination of the 4 main focus stats.

We really could play as we want then. We could build for all damage or multiple hybrids or all defense. The side effect of this is much easier balance.

Mystrius_Archaion

Remove it.

Sharee wrote: »

Prosperous is debatable, because (someone did the math) you actually save more money on gear repairs using impenetrable than you gain extra money using prosperous.

But training is actually useful. Not everyone in this game has everything maxed out.

Actually, they could replace prosperous with ornate so we can gain the same gold by selling the items to a vendor. That would be better.
Training is useless as it is only xp from enemy kills. Quest xp is the majority of xp when you actually need xp, far exceeding enemy kills, unless you have a really good farm but then you're likely being efficient not using training and wasting damage/survivability.