Auto-Leveling (One Tamriel) = Labotomy PvE Combat IMHO

Boboli

Well I imagine this topic has been beat to death but I just wanted to mention it since it’s why I just cancelled my Sub. The main reason is “One Tamriel” or basically Global Auto-Leveling for PvE.

I have read threads and see the majority of players seem to love “One Tamriel”, I am not one of them. I hate auto-leveling in any form. I vastly prefer a game world constructed with varying levels in spatial regions that are true open world accessible. That way you can wander around, explore and test your meddle, die quickly in areas too hard which inspires motivation to farm, craft, quest and improve your character and then build up your character to come back and clean house with a well-crafted build. I LOVE that scenario and to me it is the heart and soul of truly great RPGs.

Auto-Leveling turns the entire game into a mind numbing past time where it simply doesn’t matter what you do or where you go, you are always going to face equally matched foes that match your charcter level and gear. It’s like the game gets a serious Lobotomy and the remaining fun to be had is mostly aesthetics but not skillful game play, character building or strategy.

I am honestly surprised why the vast majority of players seem to love auto-leveling in the “One Tamriel” system…is it due to a new type of RPGs mindset or what?

Anyway, I apologize if this has been hashed out endlessly on this forum, it is just my sincere intent was to “adapt” to the “One Tamriel” system, to the inherently boring combat of auto-leveling and I was hoping for more fun with the new DLC release coming in June, but paying $15/month just isn’t worth waging the exact same battles against dynamically matched enemies based on my current stats over and over and over. I am sure I will check out the new DLC (I think), but the sameness of combat is really an issue IMHO.

Awesome quality MMO with boring combat and meaningless build strategy mainly for PvE.

Khenarthi

I guess you hated Oblivion too (TES IV, 2008). I am happy to have the zone scaling to my character (or scaling my character to the zone).

Bartdude

I've said it again and again, it was done to please the PVP crowd that were forever moaning about having to grind PVE (Cadwells) to get skyshards. now they can just jump to an area and get them.

ZiRM

Nice opinions...

IcyDeadPeople

One reason I like the level scaling is because enemies in 90% of the zones were way too easy and boring without it.

Another reason is the game feels less linear.

Also I can finally get useful rewards anywhere.

Boboli

Khenarthi wrote: »

I guess you hated Oblivion too (TES IV, 2008). I am happy to have the zone scaling to my character (or scaling my character to the zone).

I love games, especially the Elder Scrolls games, but am always disappointed when a "scaling" system is used in any game in a way the dynamically matches enemies to your stats. I really enjoy the freedom of challenge possible when you are free to test yourself against higher level enemies or decimate lower level baddies that used to own you. It adds depth to combat and it provide a ton of incentive to carefully build a character. It's a great feeling to easily best an enemy that once easily kicked your arse the last time you meant them and it's equally rewarding to visit lower level locations and easily dispatch the bad guys as you witness the glory of your hard work of questing, leveling and crafting your character to higher stats/abilities.

I realize I might be in the minority here which is one reason I posted, I really am curious why other people don't feel that auto-leveled encounters makes combat feel the same?

Chilly-McFreeze

Overland content is a joke anyway and "real" (...) progression sets in beyond CP160. But I get you, OP. But try to see the beneficial side of battlescaling:

- You can run so much content with all your friends, no matter at which level you or they are
- You now can go back to Stonefalls, Glenumbra, Auridon etc. or whereever you like and still have "formidable" foes, get loot you can use etc.
- The overland content + delves wasn't any harder before

Spaghettiknight

One thing I don't like about One Tamriel is there's no sense of progression for me. I really don't like being able to do literally anything at any time (which is probably why my favorite open world game is Xenoblade Chronicles). But it's nice to be able to do quests at any level and not just get 100 exp when you're already champion 160+.

Enslaved

Thing why scaling is good - once you hit max lvl and get to CP cap, all zones would be meh but cp 160 ones. Also, that would result in a lot of completely dead zones, as we had back before 1T. Please, do use brain a bit before posting.

IcyDeadPeople

Kinda wish it had been this way at launch.

With One Tamriel and the much better class balance we have now, plus fast leveling to 50, etc, I suspect we might have retained all those millions of active players who quit.

Fortunately some are returning, and there will be many new players in June.
.

alephthiago

k ty

Lake

The main reason I decided to come back to this game was One Tamriel, so the pros significantly outweigh the cons for me personally.

cdobratz

I can't remember the last time I went to Malabal Tor before One Tamriel...

Sigma957

One Tamriel is good in that I can take my max level into say Stonefalls, do a delve, world boss etc with low level players and still get xp, gold and loot. Before 1 Tamriel in these zone you could pretty much 1 shot world bosses and get nothing in return also a lot of the zones were dead when they were faction based. Now every zone feels alive with people

ifDoubtNerfIt

It's not about us players, it's how ZoS wants ESO to be. They said many times that they want ESO (early game and mid game) to be more casual friendly and in the same time end-game to be for the veteran players. But, imo, they failed end game (I'm looking at you veteran dungeons) which you can mostly run with 3 dd's, and 1 tank with Tava's and Powerful Assault.

Magdalina

Bartdude wrote: »

I've said it again and again, it was done to please the PVP crowd that were forever moaning about having to grind PVE (Cadwells) to get skyshards. now they can just jump to an area and get them.

...that's a joke, right? PvP players couldn't care less about the level of mobs in PvE. Also stealing skyshards from lvl 5 mobs is much easier than from lvl cp 160.

OP, it's probably because this game has an amazingly huge "casual solo player/rp-er" crowd and a lot of them don't care for combat, they just wanna do quests, and do them naked and fist fighting if that's what they prefer. They find having to theorycraft/research builds boring and not what they came here for, and they seem to feel it unfair that someone who spent a longer time on the game has an ultimate advantage over them just because of that. You may or may not like it but it's such a vast number of people that ZOS has to cater to them and that's fine - issues start when the "naked fist fighting"(I'm exaggertaing but not by much) crowd gets to even remotely challenging grop content and SUDDENLY they're kicked from groups and raged at and whatnot. There's 0 learning curve whatsoever.

Personally I don't think One Tam is bad, it did some great things - it brought life to low level zones which were previously 98% empty, and it did enable people to play with any of their friends, anywhere. A friend of yours picking up the game? Awesome, you can help them with world bosses and whatnot without being 600 levels too high for his zone and oneshotting everything you sneeze at(although...well WB don't die from sneezing at least lol), and you might even get some decent loot for yourself out of it, not just nothing because you're >5 levels higher than the monster. It also made a whole great number of sets relevant (again) because now all of them scale to max level, and that's far from being bad.

I don't think battle leveling is bad on its own, it did bring life to Tamriel which is cool. Personally I just think it should be about skill, not leveling, but sad thing is we get neither atm.

LordGavus

I vastly prefer a game world constructed with varying levels in spatial regions that are true open world accessible. That way you can wander around, explore and test your meddle, die quickly in areas too hard which inspires motivation to farm, craft, quest and improve your character and then build up your character to come back and clean house with a well-crafted build. I LOVE that scenario and to me it is the heart and soul of truly great RPGs.

The problem with this is, before 1T the world wasn't truly open. There were only a few zones that could provide any sort of challenges at max level. Now I can at least go anywhere and get loot with out killing everything just by looking at it.

It sounds to me that you liked to challenge yourself by going into higher level zones. That's cool and I did it too, the issue is you will out level everything eventually. In the old model you are then left with most zones having zero reason to go back to as you get no loot and can insta kill every thing with a light attack.

If you want to challenge yourself you need to be doing dungeons and trials. Overworld is not the place for that.

JinMori

ZiRM wrote: »

Nice opinions...

What, do you think that your opinions matters more then his?
Who the hell do you think you are?

Sharee

This is not necessarily a problem of one Tamriel, more like there simply isn't a big enough gap between the difficulty of a weak mob and one that is supposed to be a hard fight.

Ideally the difficulty of mobs would be varied depending on where you go. On the road and near it you would find relatively easy bandits and wolves, but near a snowy mountain top there would be frost trolls that would be a serious challenge even for a very well equipped player. So as you improve your character, more areas open up for you as viable adventuring spots.

The problem is that the land in TESO simply isn't big enough for this to work. Moving from southeast to northwest, I can cross glenumbra in seconds. If the mob difficulty was in layers of land like i described above, you would get from one layer to the more difficult one after just a few steps. Until the whole gameworld gets rescaled, im afraid we're stuck with easy overland PvE fighting generic bags of hitpoints that you know will be easy kills even if you never saw that particular kind before.

xeNNNNN

Boboli wrote: »

Khenarthi wrote: »

I guess you hated Oblivion too (TES IV, 2008). I am happy to have the zone scaling to my character (or scaling my character to the zone).

I love games, especially the Elder Scrolls games, but am always disappointed when a "scaling" system is used in any game in a way the dynamically matches enemies to your stats. I really enjoy the freedom of challenge possible when you are free to test yourself against higher level enemies or decimate lower level baddies that used to own you. It adds depth to combat and it provide a ton of incentive to carefully build a character. It's a great feeling to easily best an enemy that once easily kicked your arse the last time you meant them and it's equally rewarding to visit lower level locations and easily dispatch the bad guys as you witness the glory of your hard work of questing, leveling and crafting your character to higher stats/abilities.

I realize I might be in the minority here which is one reason I posted, I really am curious why other people don't feel that auto-leveled encounters makes combat feel the same?

Then go into dungeons by yourself i.e like vaoh on consoles he does a great job of challenging himself and why dont you solo some of the craglorn content that is still considered "group" based.

Seriously.

This entire thread wreaks of "The challenges just arent there ready for me so im upset :(:("

You should be finding the challenges yourself no just expecting them to be there for you. If you want to challenge yourself, try different builds in more difficult environments and yes there is plenty of them.

Sharee

xeNNNNN wrote: »

This entire thread wreaks of "The challenges just arent there ready for me so im upset :(:(".

I don't see it that way. It is more like "The overland PvE in general is so easy it bores me to tears". And he has a point.

Yes, he can go solo group content, but that's not a solution, that's just avoiding the problem.

Meryyl

I like it. Played off and on after release and finally left. Returned after the change and I've been playing non-stop ever since.

Different strokes.......

pieratsos

Boboli wrote: »

Well I imagine this topic has been beat to death but I just wanted to mention it since it’s why I just cancelled my Sub. The main reason is “One Tamriel” or basically Global Auto-Leveling for PvE.

I have read threads and see the majority of players seem to love “One Tamriel”, I am not one of them. I hate auto-leveling in any form. I vastly prefer a game world constructed with varying levels in spatial regions that are true open world accessible. That way you can wander around, explore and test your meddle, die quickly in areas too hard which inspires motivation to farm, craft, quest and improve your character and then build up your character to come back and clean house with a well-crafted build. I LOVE that scenario and to me it is the heart and soul of truly great RPGs.

Auto-Leveling turns the entire game into a mind numbing past time where it simply doesn’t matter what you do or where you go, you are always going to face equally matched foes that match your charcter level and gear. It’s like the game gets a serious Lobotomy and the remaining fun to be had is mostly aesthetics but not skillful game play, character building or strategy.

I am honestly surprised why the vast majority of players seem to love auto-leveling in the “One Tamriel” system…is it due to a new type of RPGs mindset or what?

Anyway, I apologize if this has been hashed out endlessly on this forum, it is just my sincere intent was to “adapt” to the “One Tamriel” system, to the inherently boring combat of auto-leveling and I was hoping for more fun with the new DLC release coming in June, but paying $15/month just isn’t worth waging the exact same battles against dynamically matched enemies based on my current stats over and over and over. I am sure I will check out the new DLC (I think), but the sameness of combat is really an issue IMHO.

Awesome quality MMO with boring combat and meaningless build strategy mainly for PvE.

1. The previous system didnt include more difficulty. The only reason u found it difficult to face mobs that outlevel u was because most of ur attacks were missing and not because ur gear wasnt good enough. Thats not difficult content. Thats dumb content decided by RNG and whether ur attacks land or miss.

2. Now, your gear does not stay updated. You still have to update ur gear otherwise it will become useless at some point. If you want challenge stay with outdated gear till it becomes hard and then update to come back and clean house which is precisely what u want. So if anything, one tamriel patch is what offers u the levelling u want and not the previous updates.

3. If u still dont find it difficult its because PVE zones are incredibly easy and thats not something that came with one tamriel. Thats how it is for some time now. Hard content died a long long time ago with Doshia. If u want to "test ur meddle" these days u solo world bosses and group dungeons, not mudcrabs and zombies.

4. This is an MMO. The whole point of one tamriel was to be able to find players to group with and do whatever content u like without level restrictions. Not to make the solo experience better. Its not a single player game. Before one tamriel all silver and gold zones were ghost towns. You couldnt even find a person in zone chat, let alone group with people. Even the zones of ur alliance were not populated apart from the capital cause there was simply no reason to be there. Now every single zone is populated. In fact they are overpopulated.

pema

It has been boring because of the nerf endgamers got. CP might as well be to blame. Capping resources as mentioned on eso live will only frustrate not improve.
The scaling is good for those still working on cp, but not for those who are at the end point. So the system.is flawed, but there is little feedback on it so do let your voices be heard.

LordGavus

Sharee wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

This entire thread wreaks of "The challenges just arent there ready for me so im upset :(:(".

I don't see it that way. It is more like "The overland PvE in general is so easy it bores me to tears". And he has a point.

Yes, he can go solo group content, but that's not a solution, that's just avoiding the problem.

That problem was even more prevalent before 1T. If I took my VR character anywhere apart from max VR zones it was even easier than it is now.
1T took a big step in addressing this issue, so now I'm not killing level 10 enemies with a VR14 character.
Yes overworld content is easy, but it's there for questing and casual players. There are still plenty of players that find the content challenging enough.
If OP wants a challenge they need to do dungeons and trials. That's the endgame content. If that's still too easy on vet then it's time to get creative.

Boboli

Spaghettiknight wrote: »

One thing I don't like about One Tamriel is there's no sense of progression for me. I really don't like being able to do literally anything at any time (which is probably why my favorite open world game is Xenoblade Chronicles). But it's nice to be able to do quests at any level and not just get 100 exp when you're already champion 160+.

Yes I do get that, thanks for the input, the problem for me is the downside is a constant feeling of "sameness" when in combat, from start to finish, the effort put into crafting and things is moot in most cases since the game is matching your current build/stats so I don't feel compelled to take the time and effort to buff my character at all. I fully appreciate that scaling adds tons of options and also coding and design efficiency for the devs, it is the trade off for the benefits I see many identifying, which I too enjoy. So I do get it, but I feel it is also a steep price to pay since scaling removes that motivating force (aka survival) that fuels the reason I play in the first place from so many activities related to character development.

As I mentioned I was really trying to adapt, I enjoy supporting ESO, it's a classy MMO, the best IMHO and I am certain I will be playing the new content in June. I just wish there was a reason (such as basic survival) to spend time and effort to "build well". If there was then just about every other stinking activity would take on so much more meaning/importance and in turn enjoyment.

All that whining aside, I really appreciate the feedback, thanks!

Urza1234

One Tamriel makes 100% of the world accessible to players, whereas before 90% of the world was useless and pointless to 90% of characters(because they were max level).

While I agree that the game could be more challenging while quest-leveling, challenging content does still exist, you just cant get your jollies simply by going to a zone that outlevels you. Skipping zones has never been worth the time in any MMO anyway, because the difficulty of monsters is almost always enforced by a stupid and hard-scaling mechanic like auto-evade, separate from a monster's normal stats, and the exp rewards almost never exceed the exp from monsters at your level by any appreciable amount. While skipping zones and defeating the hard-scaling mechanic might be novel once in a while, its a complete waste of time and not the measure of a good MMO.

Almost all content in the game is more challenging than just fighting open-world monsters, something has to be the easiest thing in the game and open-world monsters are that thing. All 1T does is make it so that mudcrabs in Auridon are the same as mudcrabs in Reapers march, instead of arbitrarily being orders of magnitude less difficult.

I dont know if the OP has a max level character or not, but if they dont, and if they havent tried the vet dungeons etc, then they really should not be talking about what is and is not challenging. If they dont find vet content challenging then well... sorry bud but ESO isnt here to challenge you actually, its here to sell crown crates.

Boboli

[/quote]

...

This entire thread wreaks of "The challenges just arent there ready for me so im upset :(:("

You should be finding the challenges yourself no just expecting them to be there for you. If you want to challenge yourself, try different builds in more difficult environments and yes there is plenty of them.[/quote]

That's not what I am saying at all WRT to the Challenge aspect. I am saying that the Challenge is SET by the game, that the player controls/affects very little of the difficulty of each battle with the quality or level of their build. The scaling problem makes it impossible to improve your character to win more difficult battles as well. It basically takes the Player Build out of the game for PvE when it comes to how difficult any given battle is. In set level zoned designs the player controls their strength relative to the enemies, in ESO you do not. That's all.

Everstorm

One Tamriel is a great way to prevent content from going obsolete. We all know devs can't create content as fast as the players can consume so creating content that will not stand the test of time by design is a huge waste.
The implementation of One Tamriel could have been beter but I praise them for daring to do it.
There is however a problem with the difficulty of the solo content. Making stuff challenging for cp600s and doable for new players at the same time will be a challenge. And there also has to be some sense of progression. If a lvl 25 can do the same content as a 50/cp600 then progress becomes pointless.

Urza1234

Boboli wrote: »

That's not what I am saying at all WRT to the Challenge aspect. I am saying that the Challenge is SET by the game, that the player controls/affects very little of the difficulty of each battle with the quality or level of their build. The scaling problem makes it impossible to improve your character to win more difficult battles as well. It basically takes the Player Build out of the game for PvE when it comes to how difficult any given battle is. In set level zoned designs the player controls their strength relative to the enemies, in ESO you do not. That's all.

I mean, the player literally does control how difficult the battle is even in the open world. Sure its difficult to have a build so bad that you have trouble fighting mudcrabs, but there is a mathematical difference between a drawn out exhausting fight with a single mudcrab, and using Radiant Aura to pull every mudcrab within 28m and fight them all at once.

If you're saying that as a player you are denied the ability to challenge yourself ingame because you cant skip zones then you are wrong, you just have to leave the open world and do literally any other content in the game. The challenge is still there, you just have to stop fighting mudcrabs.

SickDuck

One Tamriel is great in many ways especially for lvl 50 people. Opening up the world and scaling up lowbies gives great opportunities. The problem is the single difficulty of all overland content. Everything is scaled to the same level without a choice or option for progression. This is very bad in a game where the difference in skilled and unskilled dps can be a factor of 10. When we look at all pve content (overland, dungeons and trials), this leaves frustrated casuals and bored elite. Not to mention that this is a trigger for nerfs (dat ceiling...) to desperately try fitting everyone to the same single content.