Gold Sellers popping up in Facebook

rotaugen454

I liked the ESO Facebook page, and now I've had gold sellers pop up in my feed.

"Buy ESO Gold from the most trustworthy store. The best prices guaranteed and safely delivered to your elite character. Quit grinding all the time and partner with the best shop for The Elder Scrolls Online gold. Buy on the Xbox, PlayStation and PC. 100,000 Gold for $9.99!"

Isn't this not only against TOS, but illegal? Would Facebook remove this if I reported it? Or is it legal and just against ZoS rules, so Facebook would leave it?

RapidUrsa

No Illegal but highly frowned upon.

Turelus

The countries which sell it normally fall outside of the jurisdiction of the countries which make the games.

If it's a site like eBay they have rules against it (though they're too lazy to enforce it even when reported because it makes them money).

rotaugen454

Turelus wrote: »

The countries which sell it normally fall outside of the jurisdiction of the countries which make the games.

If it's a site like eBay they have rules against it (though they're too lazy to enforce it even when reported because it makes them money).

That's what I was afraid of. ZoS can't go after the sellers but can go after the buyers. Ya really wanna risk losing that account you poured all those hours into?

Elsonso

Against the ToS, for both the seller and the buyer.

Turelus

rotaugen454 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

The countries which sell it normally fall outside of the jurisdiction of the countries which make the games.

If it's a site like eBay they have rules against it (though they're too lazy to enforce it even when reported because it makes them money).

That's what I was afraid of. ZoS can't go after the sellers but can go after the buyers. Ya really wanna risk losing that account you poured all those hours into?

If they wanted to stop this they should act in game to do so. Remove purchased gold from players, ban accounts of buyers.

CCP Games does this and even goes so far as to take your wallet into the negatives if you've already spent the money. There is a general fear of buying/selling ISK (gold) in EVE Online because of how on the ball CCP is.

Sadly I've been over this many times and ZOS has no interest in a security team like CCP employs.

rotaugen454

lordrichter wrote: »

Against the ToS, for both the seller and the buyer.

Yeah, but the sellers don't care about losing the account, they just get another one. I've read articles where they talked to people who grind gold in games for money. You'd think it would be easier to just get a real job considering what they showed them making in the end.

Elsonso

rotaugen454 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Against the ToS, for both the seller and the buyer.

Yeah, but the sellers don't care about losing the account, they just get another one. I've read articles where they talked to people who grind gold in games for money. You'd think it would be easier to just get a real job considering what they showed them making in the end.

The buyer should care. My purpose in mentioning this is that people who buy gold from a website need to realize that they can run into trouble with the ToS Enforcement Team. Transfers of gold are logged. It is not possible to hide from ZOS.

Lexxypwns

lordrichter wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Against the ToS, for both the seller and the buyer.

Yeah, but the sellers don't care about losing the account, they just get another one. I've read articles where they talked to people who grind gold in games for money. You'd think it would be easier to just get a real job considering what they showed them making in the end.

The buyer should care. My purpose in mentioning this is that people who buy gold from a website need to realize that they can run into trouble with the ToS Enforcement Team. Transfers of gold are logged. It is not possible to hide from ZOS.

Its not possible to hide it, but its possible ZoS doesn't really care.

Not the most recent DDoS, but the one a few months ago came after a large amount of bots(most likely gold sellers) were banned... Since then bots have been back worse than ever with no apparent action.

kyle.wilson

Turelus wrote: »

The countries which sell it normally fall outside of the jurisdiction of the countries which make the games.

If it's a site like eBay they have rules against it (though they're too lazy to enforce it even when reported because it makes them money).

If you are on the US server, it would be under the jurisdiction of the US Government. Any data that passes through a US server is considered on American property.
It is against the TOS, but catching them is difficult.

DRXHarbinger

100k for that much? I can make 100k in 20 mins daily questing. Damn. Need to start a new business.

rotaugen454

Lexxypwns wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Against the ToS, for both the seller and the buyer.

Yeah, but the sellers don't care about losing the account, they just get another one. I've read articles where they talked to people who grind gold in games for money. You'd think it would be easier to just get a real job considering what they showed them making in the end.

The buyer should care. My purpose in mentioning this is that people who buy gold from a website need to realize that they can run into trouble with the ToS Enforcement Team. Transfers of gold are logged. It is not possible to hide from ZOS.

Its not possible to hide it, but its possible ZoS doesn't really care.

Not the most recent DDoS, but the one a few months ago came after a large amount of bots(most likely gold sellers) were banned... Since then bots have been back worse than ever with no apparent action.

So, would it be feasible to speculate that a gold selling group from another country sent ZoS a threatening e-mail saying don't ban our bots or else, and that's why we see so many?

ADarklore

Gold Seller transactions are crystal clear to ZOS... if you have Master Merchant, it shows you the 'price' of what an item sold, and if a low level white item sells for 50K+ in gold, you KNOW it was a gold seller. ZOS can see this, all they'd have to do is run a query of highest items sold and they can tell what item was sold and WHO bought it. From what I've heard, the Gold Sellers have you place a low level item for sale in a Guild Store for a high price, then they buy that item. For any item directly traded, ZOS would have records for that as well. I just don't think they want to pursue it because they are making money off people being in the game... the more people they ban, the more revenue they lose, or so they probably believe.

Also, what someone mentioned above about the botting ban tied to a DDoS attack, this could be possible. Perhaps after a mass botting ban and subsequent DDoS attack, ZOS determined it was better not to rock the boat.

Elsonso

Lexxypwns wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Against the ToS, for both the seller and the buyer.

Yeah, but the sellers don't care about losing the account, they just get another one. I've read articles where they talked to people who grind gold in games for money. You'd think it would be easier to just get a real job considering what they showed them making in the end.

The buyer should care. My purpose in mentioning this is that people who buy gold from a website need to realize that they can run into trouble with the ToS Enforcement Team. Transfers of gold are logged. It is not possible to hide from ZOS.

Its not possible to hide it, but its possible ZoS doesn't really care.

Not the most recent DDoS, but the one a few months ago came after a large amount of bots(most likely gold sellers) were banned... Since then bots have been back worse than ever with no apparent action.

Interesting accusation, implied, against ZOS. It is plausible that DDoS attacks could be retaliation, even for banning bots. Saying that ZOS bowing to them because of it is just the same refrain, in a different song. Seems to pop up in all of the "ZOS does nothing about ______" conversations. ZOS is in bed with them, helping them perpetuate the evilness that they do. This song is more of a "ZOS is afraid of them" jingle, though.

Cadbury

lordrichter wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Against the ToS, for both the seller and the buyer.

Yeah, but the sellers don't care about losing the account, they just get another one. I've read articles where they talked to people who grind gold in games for money. You'd think it would be easier to just get a real job considering what they showed them making in the end.

The buyer should care. My purpose in mentioning this is that people who buy gold from a website need to realize that they can run into trouble with the ToS Enforcement Team. Transfers of gold are logged. It is not possible to hide from ZOS.

Its not possible to hide it, but its possible ZoS doesn't really care.

Not the most recent DDoS, but the one a few months ago came after a large amount of bots(most likely gold sellers) were banned... Since then bots have been back worse than ever with no apparent action.

Interesting accusation, implied, against ZOS. It is plausible that DDoS attacks could be retaliation, even for banning bots. Saying that ZOS bowing to them because of it is just the same refrain, in a different song. Seems to pop up in all of the "ZOS does nothing about ______" conversations. ZOS is in bed with them, helping them perpetuate the evilness that they do. This song is more of a "ZOS is afraid of them" jingle, though.

Hackers on steroids.

Kneighbors

Don't see such a big deal with it. It boosts ESO economy, brings more players, makes them put more effort. The only downside I see is bots, but this problem is easy to deal with, if only ZoS try.

Banning players who buy eso gold is same like pimp restricting alcoholics to buy drugs from him.. Do you realize that playera who invest money in ESO gold also like to invest money in crown store?

Turelus

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

The countries which sell it normally fall outside of the jurisdiction of the countries which make the games.

If it's a site like eBay they have rules against it (though they're too lazy to enforce it even when reported because it makes them money).

If you are on the US server, it would be under the jurisdiction of the US Government. Any data that passes through a US server is considered on American property.
It is against the TOS, but catching them is difficult.

Catching them is a lot easier than many thing, if you're willing to invest in it. Again I go back to CCP Games, they show this very well.

Turelus

Kneighbors wrote: »

Don't see such a big deal with it. It boosts ESO economy, brings more players, makes them put more effort. The only downside I see is bots, but this problem is easy to deal with, if only ZoS try.

Banning players who buy eso gold is same like pimp restricting alcoholics to buy drugs from him.. Do you realize that playera who invest money in ESO gold also like to invest money in crown store?

Many of the people selling gold (when it's websites, not eBay) have no interest in you. They will attempt to brute force customer accounts with info they have gained from transactions, use credit card information if they can and much more.

These people just want money, they don't give a damn about you or the game.

Here are some very interesting talks about it if you have the time to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDSNd_w86Hw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG13u9KKtzE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vd-CpnjvAM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CZR9w3ftjY&t=2s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBD7CL9oQqE

kyle.wilson

It's never ben about the people buying gold. It's always been the sellers.
Gold sellers are often backed by bots, and with the cost of the game being so low the risk is low for the botter.

Even Blizzard is having a hard time keeping up with the bots.
http://www.craveonline.com/entertainment/1231311-blizzard-seek-8-5-million-damages-cheaters-ruining-overwatch-wow
http://mmoexaminer.com/blizzard-cracks-world-warcraft-bot-users/

And this is from a couple years ago, when Blizzard banned 100,000 accounts for botting.
http://www.pcgamer.com/blizzard-bans-more-than-100000-world-of-warcraft-accounts/

SaRuZ

Just msg any GM in any guild in Rawl'ka, Mournhold, Elden Root & Wayrest on Xbox NA, they will hook you up cheap and have you put up a white lvl 1 Dagger for 500k that they will buy

phairdon

Might go some way to explaining, why more groups of bots are appearing in different zones.

BRogueNZ

phairdon wrote: »

Might go some way to explaining, why more groups of bots are appearing in different zones.

I'm sure there are probably those lvld accounts for sale somewhere too

KochDerDamonen

Aye aye, don't think of these people as poor dudes in a room of barely-running computers scraping up gold because it's the only job they can find...

As someone who's had the experience firsthand of all his stuff being vendored and gold taken by someone in the phillipines that broke into his e-mail (heck with Yahoo), it's not all farmed. And what is farmed, is done in huge droves to the expense of all players trying to access those resources normally. Gold sellers aren't your friend, they only like your game as much as the money they make off of it, the worse they trash the economy the better for them.

ZOS would be making a grand example to their players, and the industry as a whole if they would take a strong stance on this. Sure, the folks out there that would rather drop $100 than spend an hour grinding to get some gold might be butthurt, but they're just as happy playing any game that lets them bruteforce forward with money in hand...

MLGProPlayer

This is what happens when botting goes unchecked.

kyle.wilson

If ZOS was more direct and public about the bans like some mmo's, I think we might feel like something was being done.

Some games have publicly humiliated players caught hacking. (i.e. Guild Wars 2)
http://kotaku.com/hackers-mmo-character-publicly-stripped-killed-banne-1702670398
Does it stop hackers? No.
But, maybe it would convince someone trotting down that path to reconsider.

phairdon

kyle.wilson wrote: »

If ZOS was more direct and public about the bans like some mmo's, I think we might feel like something was being done.

Some games have publicly humiliated players caught hacking. (i.e. Guild Wars 2)
http://kotaku.com/hackers-mmo-character-publicly-stripped-killed-banne-1702670398
Does it stop hackers? No.
But, maybe it would convince someone trotting down that path to reconsider.

Second one of those gw2 bans I've seen. Both done the same way, at the same place.

LadyDestiny

Noticed them popping up in text chat up in craglorn yesterday. I mean what real player names their character jxddjhnk?

mtwiggz

Turelus wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

The countries which sell it normally fall outside of the jurisdiction of the countries which make the games.

If it's a site like eBay they have rules against it (though they're too lazy to enforce it even when reported because it makes them money).

That's what I was afraid of. ZoS can't go after the sellers but can go after the buyers. Ya really wanna risk losing that account you poured all those hours into?

If they wanted to stop this they should act in game to do so. Remove purchased gold from players, ban accounts of buyers.

CCP Games does this and even goes so far as to take your wallet into the negatives if you've already spent the money. There is a general fear of buying/selling ISK (gold) in EVE Online because of how on the ball CCP is.

Sadly I've been over this many times and ZOS has no interest in a security team like CCP employs.

CCP is by far the best game company. They actually listen and care about their playerbase, not just the money.

Elsonso

kyle.wilson wrote: »

If ZOS was more direct and public about the bans like some mmo's, I think we might feel like something was being done.

Some games have publicly humiliated players caught hacking. (i.e. Guild Wars 2)
http://kotaku.com/hackers-mmo-character-publicly-stripped-killed-banne-1702670398
Does it stop hackers? No.
But, maybe it would convince someone trotting down that path to reconsider.

This is actually a fair point. ZOS keeps everything Utter Top Secret, double NSA grade, when it comes to ToS violations. We can see the bots and cheaters in the game. Every day. All anyone hears from ZOS is whatever Jessica says when she runs out and makes a statement a couple times per year. It is understandable why people might be led to believe that ZOS does not care about cheating and botting.

A steady stream of evidence that ZOS bans cheaters and botters is cheaper than the cost of the extra employees that have to do that work because people think ZOS doesn't care. Police sit at the side of the road when working on reports for a reason. Just seeing them is a deterrent.

I am also hearing that when ZOS does bother to take action, it is a joke. The punishment for earning thousands, or millions, of XP, AP, Gold... whatever... is a 3 day vacation and they wag their finger at them and warn that bad things will happen if they don't stop. I get that they probably do this because it is easier to fix mistakes, which I guess they also make on a fairly regular basis, but the punishment is hardly a deterrent when you get to keep everything. It is like robbing a bank and getting a few days in the local jail, plus you get to keep the money. Again, this is my perception, and ZOS is doing nothing to counter that.

What I expect is that, rather than just making a steady stream of ban and suspension that create an atmosphere of enforcement, they will go for the few-and-far-between "PR events" and hope that some blogger picks it up.

AFrostWolf

rotaugen454 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Against the ToS, for both the seller and the buyer.

Yeah, but the sellers don't care about losing the account, they just get another one. I've read articles where they talked to people who grind gold in games for money. You'd think it would be easier to just get a real job considering what they showed them making in the end.

I forgot what I was watching but it was an interview with a Chinese guy who was a prisoner for some petty theft and they forced him and other inmates to farm WoW gold all day to sell. They would run a bit and have 1 guy watch multiple accounts at a time. It cost them nothing so it's all pure profit. The solution is to have no one buy anything from them so then it IS wasted effort and time.

Turelus

kyle.wilson wrote: »

It's never ben about the people buying gold. It's always been the sellers.

It's all about these people. They're the ones who bring the business to the "companies" which do this. Those people who buy gold should be punished as well.

1st strike: remove gold (if they spent some send them negative and make them earn it back)
2nd strike: remove gold month ban
3rd strike: perma-ban.

Selling gold: perma-ban.

The community should be coming together to report RMT.

ZOS should be getting off their butts and acting on reports.