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So why were stam DPS classes nerfed in PvE?

Albino_Dunmer
Albino_Dunmer
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Im really struggling to come up with a good reason for these nerfs. Many of them had virtually no effect or limited effect on PvP and stamina already have so many negatives. So why?

  • f047ys3v3n
    f047ys3v3n
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    Nobody can figure out the reason for the trap nerf. I think maybe it was just a case of a 9 month delay in ZOS reactions. 9 months ago stam was doing so much dps that it was ridiculous. I would litterally ask for stam dps's with vMA weapons in guild chats to set up runs because that was simply what worked. They nerfed them stam back into line and then just kept going. I think maybe they look at what we are playing and don't realize that we often don't totally abandon something until they haven't just balanced but totally broken it. Hell, I'm clinging to a mNB at the moment and it's numbers are not stellar.
    Yes I am deeply embarrassed to still be playing this game. I know better.
  • Albino_Dunmer
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    I'm right there with ya on it. I've come into the game relatively recently and was struck by the oddity of nerfing an already underperforming build type.
  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
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    Stam builds are still very viable for dps and still hold the highest orclose to highest single target dps. Stam sorcs in particular
    Edited by Vapirko on March 14, 2017 9:49AM
  • Beardimus
    Beardimus
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    If you've been here a while you'll know Stam has been pretty OP for a while - and in many circumstances still are so any nerfs were just to bring a bit of balance .
    Xbox One | EU | EP
    Beardimus : VR16 (810CP) Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
    Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
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    Xbox One | NA | EP
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    Nordimus : CP160+ Stamsorc
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  • OrphanHelgen
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    Like others also mentioned, the nerfs was planned long time ago.
    Also, when magicka came back in the game like never before with the new destruction staff passive, the gap between stamina and magicka was already closed.
    PC, EU server, Ebonheart Pact


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  • Arrchangell
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    It's not a dps problem for stamina, the utility is. That's the biggest reason why u don't see stamina in end game pve content. People then keep saying don't buff them, they are ok, and yet u barely even see someone playing them.
  • Pallio
    Pallio
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    So they could still be good in PvP but bad in PvE.
  • usmcjdking
    usmcjdking
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    Stam ultimately fell out because shields are more valuable than mitigation. Stam can mitigate a lot more damage over time and can DPS whilst self-healing with superb mitigation - but AOE DOT damage isn't a real threat in any trial making the unique defensive toolkit of stam pretty pointless. AOE burst is the real threat in trials towards DPS, and shields are significantly better suited for dealing with that than the mitigation and hots stam has.

    Now, the resource change will secure some stam bubbas spots in trials as stam is nowhere close to as reliant on warlord as mag is magician and where they have the naturally higher ST/DPS discounting raid buffs (to include sustain buffs), I expect most raid groups to incorporate stam back into the raid meta due to their sustained DPS. Current mag builds will be shoehorned into an AOE burst build due to the the huge increase in costs they will take come Morrowind. Mag toons will have to sacrifice far too much to be able to sustain DPS - enough to the point it's flat out better to just bring stam to the fight.

    The disparity in surviability still must be addressed though.
    0331
    0602
  • f047ys3v3n
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    Funny thing. I've been doing some questing stuff on my stam sorc lately. This has also ended up involving some killing of world bosses. Since nobody does these anymore, pretty much ever, I have been soloing them all. It gives an interesting perspective on stam, or rather stam sorc (which is really a different thing.) Surprisingly, I can solo world bosses with my stam sorc that I cannot complete on my magblade. The huge mitigation of medium armor plus hurricane and huge heals of power surge plus rend plus vigor are far superior on physical damage bosses to the higher dps of the mag blade, it's mediocre funnel heals, and harness magica. I was very surprised by this at first. However, when I saw my sorcs sustained heals per second was 6k compared to 2.5k on the magnb I totally get it. 6k heals per second sustained for a solo world boss. Isn't that insane?

    Anyhow. I say this much by way of illustrating that the biggest issue that we face in stam vs magica in trials is probably the issue that trials now requires such a totally narrow set of things. Basically, they all require the absolute maximum cleave (single target boss and cleave adds in your ground DOT's) dps from a basically stationary location while having a shield to mitigate big hits and to compensate for the fact healers are a bit busy running a million buffs and aren't really watching health bars. It's narrow, really, really, narrow. We may really be just complaining about the wrong thing. Yes, all stam dps and magblade are in no way competitive with the other 3 mag dps classes in trials. However, this has as much to do with how trials have been made rather than how the builds would perform relative to each other with more varied mechanics.

    In any case. I see no reason to believe that ZOS gives a rats ass about trials balance or trials in general at the moment. There is plenty of evidence for this. Our vMA staves, the most important and extremely hard to acquire piece of gear in the game have been broken for a month with no word at all. We all run add ons in vMoL because the animation for race change has actually never worked in more than a year. DPS scaling is so bizarre that vSO only requires about 7k average dps to complete hard mode but vAA requires 35k. Really, a 5x difference? vMoL is, and always has been, scaled such that the dps to complete without lunar phase is a hairs breadth from that required with lunar phase but the difficultly of doing lunar phase is at least 3x that of without. The sharp swords required for the BIS temlar build basically just can't be farmed do to some idiosyncrasy that makes sharp swords specifically drop at many times less the rate of any other sharp weapons. 5 peices of trials dps gear is essentially not best in slot for all but one build and that one is the relatively uncommon templar one. The grand total of what we get from trials to display in our houses is a couple crappy statues. What did PVP get? Siege equipment and a bloody elder scroll. Questing and such... Fishing got an awesome boat for Rahakats sake. I'm just saying. ZOS just wishes we would take our data, understanding, bug reports, balance comments, and competitive spirit and go get locked in some other realm of Oblivion.
    Yes I am deeply embarrassed to still be playing this game. I know better.
  • Albino_Dunmer
    Albino_Dunmer
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    Beardimus wrote: »
    If you've been here a while you'll know Stam has been pretty OP for a while - and in many circumstances still are so any nerfs were just to bring a bit of balance .
    My join date is from some of the first betas but I thought the game sucked ass then and only started playing it again about 4 months ago.

    I think stam damage is fine, they Just underperform in the positioning and survivability areas. They lose DPS while getting to position and while dealing with close up mechanics like boss centered AOEs because they do all their true DPS up close and personal where everything is a total mess with everything hitting the boss and them maintaining proper distance while accommodating the tank's position. There is a lot less footwork and downtime if you pewpew
  • Albino_Dunmer
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    Oh stamsorcs are an entirely different beast but for solo and dungeon play they are fantastic. But as you guessed, this was mostly aimed at Trials.
  • Edziu
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    usmcjdking wrote: »
    Stam ultimately fell out because shields are more valuable than mitigation. Stam can mitigate a lot more damage over time and can DPS whilst self-healing with superb mitigation - but AOE DOT damage isn't a real threat in any trial making the unique defensive toolkit of stam pretty pointless. AOE burst is the real threat in trials towards DPS, and shields are significantly better suited for dealing with that than the mitigation and hots stam has.

    Now, the resource change will secure some stam bubbas spots in trials as stam is nowhere close to as reliant on warlord as mag is magician and where they have the naturally higher ST/DPS discounting raid buffs (to include sustain buffs), I expect most raid groups to incorporate stam back into the raid meta due to their sustained DPS. Current mag builds will be shoehorned into an AOE burst build due to the the huge increase in costs they will take come Morrowind. Mag toons will have to sacrifice far too much to be able to sustain DPS - enough to the point it's flat out better to just bring stam to the fight.

    The disparity in surviability still must be addressed though.

    funny thing...magica build will place their 3-6 ground and single target dots and lighting staff heavy attack spam with adds on boss will be unfourtunatelly still better because of huge aoe from this heavy attack with no cos...but also with magica return, I now imagine how again elegant set is comming back into light/heavy attacks meta for magica build...mag dk will be much happier t this because of molten armaments buff to heavy attacks
  • MLGProPlayer
    MLGProPlayer
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    Beardimus wrote: »
    If you've been here a while you'll know Stam has been pretty OP for a while - and in many circumstances still are so any nerfs were just to bring a bit of balance .

    Is that why nobody brought stamina DPS into trials even before these nerfs?
    Edited by MLGProPlayer on March 28, 2017 1:27AM
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