Heavy Armor DPS

ereboz

So ZoS likes to pride themselves on having a game that you can play 'your way'. Well I would love to play a heavy armor 2h warrior monster dps. But that's just not viable in ESO due to the medium armor passives that are more suited to this play style. I would love for someone to correct me if I'm wrong, but is it even possible to do decent dps in pve, wearing heavy armor? I'm mostly referring to vet dungeons, don't really have any interest in trials

Doctordarkspawn

Welcome to ESO. Play your way is a lie.

Firstly, two handed is absolutely worst in PVE. It's horrible. Duel wield is superior in every single way. Superior AOE, superior single target potential. Secondly, medium armor is basicly all your gonna use.

Sad fact is, the only place where you can 'play how you want', is PVP. Because that's how the system was designed, it's a PVP system. Your setup is actually fairly popular in PVP and will continue to be until Twohander and heavy armor get nerfed into the ground and PVE suffers for it.

ereboz

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Welcome to ESO. Play your way is a lie.

Firstly, two handed is absolutely worst in PVE. It's horrible. Duel wield is superior in every single way. Superior AOE, superior single target potential. Secondly, medium armor is basicly all your gonna use.

Sad fact is, the only place where you can 'play how you want', is PVP. Because that's how the system was designed, it's a PVP system. Your setup is actually fairly popular in PVP and will continue to be until Twohander and heavy armor get nerfed into the ground and PVE suffers for it.

You make very valid points. Really is sad that this game has absolutely no balance. I'm not a fan of PvP but I know the vast majority of players are. So that's great for them, when it's not laggy AF. I really wish they could find a balance that allowed all players to play 'your way'

KochDerDamonen

ereboz wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Welcome to ESO. Play your way is a lie.

Firstly, two handed is absolutely worst in PVE. It's horrible. Duel wield is superior in every single way. Superior AOE, superior single target potential. Secondly, medium armor is basicly all your gonna use.

Sad fact is, the only place where you can 'play how you want', is PVP. Because that's how the system was designed, it's a PVP system. Your setup is actually fairly popular in PVP and will continue to be until Twohander and heavy armor get nerfed into the ground and PVE suffers for it.

Really is sad that this game has absolutely no balance.

@ereboz If your definition of "balance" is "everything is the same" then yes.

If you rock heavy armor you can get some damage out of it, but only if you get hit. You are also much much tankier. You won't do the same dps as a comparatively squishier medium armor build.

If you want to wear heavy armor in PvE, go right ahead. You can hold aggro and dps at the same time and take the "tank" role in group dungeons, though this won't make you too many fans in terms of people that expect utility and debuffs from their tanks, and it won't get you anywhere if you want to partake in veteran trials. You can absolutely do overworld(read:solo, or intended to be solo at least content) or try soloing dungeons in heavy armor and no one will be bothered in the least, it's even easy to recommend heavy armor here.

You can even just dps in heavy armor, with good sets you can pull acceptable numbers, but again if you play with randoms you can expect a fair number of them are going to be upset that you're sacrificing damage to wear heavy armor. You don't have this problem if you play with(or make some) friends that don't mind going a bit slower.


To reiterate: Yes, using a 2H weapon and full heavy armor is negative for PvE DPS. 2H has superior burst damage to DW and is more suited to PvP, heavy armor has great benefits to defense and unified damage and sustain(magicka AND stamina). This makes these choices distinct from Medium and DW, both of which sacrifice the benefits of Heavy and 2H to have their own identities.

Merlin13KAGL

You can absolutely play your way.

Expecting to be able to do so and have it be equivalent or better than other builds is far from realistic.

Everything should have downsides and advantages. Without there is neither diversity nor balance.

Anti_Virus

According to some people on the forums here Heavy armor somehow deals more damage than medium and light armor.

DschiPeunt

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Welcome to ESO. Play your way is a lie.

Firstly, two handed is absolutely worst in PVE. It's horrible. Duel wield is superior in every single way. Superior AOE, superior single target potential. Secondly, medium armor is basicly all your gonna use.

Sad fact is, the only place where you can 'play how you want', is PVP. Because that's how the system was designed, it's a PVP system. Your setup is actually fairly popular in PVP and will continue to be until Twohander and heavy armor get nerfed into the ground and PVE suffers for it.

No, it's not a lie. Every class can use all armor types and all types of weapons. You can play all classes as DD, Tank or Healer and use a magicka or stamina setup on all classes.
That is precisely, what "play how you want" means. Nobody said everything was equally viable. Some things synergize better than others (e.g. Templar - Magicka - Light Armor - Resto Staff).
Simple as that.

ElliottXO

ereboz wrote: »

So ZoS likes to pride themselves on having a game that you can play 'your way'. Well I would love to play a heavy armor 2h warrior monster dps. But that's just not viable in ESO due to the medium armor passives that are more suited to this play style. I would love for someone to correct me if I'm wrong, but is it even possible to do decent dps in pve, wearing heavy armor? I'm mostly referring to vet dungeons, don't really have any interest in trials

Ummm. Heavy armor had this characteristics in pretty much every RPG of the last 30 years.

And yes, vet dungeons can easily be done with such a built. Especially since you can mix in a medium set into your built but still have 7 heavy armor pieces.

I tank vet dungeons with 5 black rose (heavy), Selene Monster set (heavy) and 5 Viper (accessories, club and shield). Viper is actually a medium set, and yet I wear no medium piece.

zaria

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Welcome to ESO. Play your way is a lie.

Firstly, two handed is absolutely worst in PVE. It's horrible. Duel wield is superior in every single way. Superior AOE, superior single target potential. Secondly, medium armor is basicly all your gonna use.

Sad fact is, the only place where you can 'play how you want', is PVP. Because that's how the system was designed, it's a PVP system. Your setup is actually fairly popular in PVP and will continue to be until Twohander and heavy armor get nerfed into the ground and PVE suffers for it.

if they don't get smart and start balancing skills different in PvP and PvE.
PvP is all about burst, you want to kill the other guy before he can heal back up or kill you.
PvE is all about damage over time and sustain, you have to kill bosses with many million hp.

But yes in PvE tanks are wanted, an tank who can hold agro, stay alive and do good damage is very good in dungeons.

bowmanz607

You can, it just is not the optimal playstyle. Remember play as you want does not equal being optimal in what you are trying to accomplish. For open world pve you can really run anything. Even a restore in medium armor if you choose because the content is pretty easy. A bit more limited in dungeons, but many dungeons in game you can run the setup you speak of, it will just take longer to do. Heck, I healed a dungeon with a dps doing nothing but snipe haha.

You will not be competitive though. You will not be high in leader boards and a few of the difficult dungeons you might have some difficulty without a decent supporting cast, but in many cases you will be fine.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Welcome to ESO. Play your way is a lie.

Firstly, two handed is absolutely worst in PVE. It's horrible. Duel wield is superior in every single way. Superior AOE, superior single target potential. Secondly, medium armor is basicly all your gonna use.

Sad fact is, the only place where you can 'play how you want', is PVP. Because that's how the system was designed, it's a PVP system. Your setup is actually fairly popular in PVP and will continue to be until Twohander and heavy armor get nerfed into the ground and PVE suffers for it.

You saying system was designed for pvp???? Haha ok. Sure.

You just said 2h was not worth it in pvp and then said pvp will suffer when it's nerfed???? What???

ereboz wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Welcome to ESO. Play your way is a lie.

Firstly, two handed is absolutely worst in PVE. It's horrible. Duel wield is superior in every single way. Superior AOE, superior single target potential. Secondly, medium armor is basicly all your gonna use.

Sad fact is, the only place where you can 'play how you want', is PVP. Because that's how the system was designed, it's a PVP system. Your setup is actually fairly popular in PVP and will continue to be until Twohander and heavy armor get nerfed into the ground and PVE suffers for it.

You make very valid points. Really is sad that this game has absolutely no balance. I'm not a fan of PvP but I know the vast majority of players are. So that's great for them, when it's not laggy AF. I really wish they could find a balance that allowed all players to play 'your way'

Majority of players would likely fall into the pve category. In fact ZoS stated many players come back for a month when dlc drops to do that which would lend itself to the fact that many more people pve.

Anti_Virus wrote: »

According to some people on the forums here Heavy armor somehow deals more damage than medium and light armor.

Heavy does not deal more damage, but cp allows a player to use heavy and be viable in resources and damage. Just not top end damage.

notimetocare

A rough comparison: Equality and equity.
You can play any build you want, you are not going to perform the same as an optimized build.

raglau

'Play your way' does not mean 'put together totally preposterous build and expect to do as well as someone who's given it a little thought'.

Balance means trade-offs. If you want the survivability of heavy, you're clearly going to take a maneuvrability hit, which translates to less damage. You did not seriously think you could somehow have the heavy armour passives AND something analogous to the medium armour damage passives, I am sure.

You are playing your way in heavy, just don't expect your way to be as good as my way at damage dealing, when it comes to surviving the big hits however, your way is better than mine.

hmsdragonfly

ereboz wrote: »

So ZoS likes to pride themselves on having a game that you can play 'your way'. Well I would love to play a heavy armor 2h warrior monster dps. But that's just not viable in ESO due to the medium armor passives that are more suited to this play style. I would love for someone to correct me if I'm wrong, but is it even possible to do decent dps in pve, wearing heavy armor? I'm mostly referring to vet dungeons, don't really have any interest in trials

It's awesome in PvP.

If you think about it, end-game PvE has no build diversity, there's only 1 meta build because everyone wants to squeeze out the last bit of DPS. If you want build diversity, come to PvP. Yes there are builds that are stronger than others, and builds that are straightup cancerous, that's true, but your combination of heavy armor and 2H works.

If you want to PvE in heavy, you can be a Tank/DPS. It will work in all vet dungeons. Just don't forget to taunt things.

Anti_Virus

[Double post]

srfrogg23

Well, take solace in the fact that heavy armor is not a play style. It is just equipment.

bleedginmascarax

I know this is old, but you can use poisons to poison yourself and proc heavy armor passives to raise damage. use regen ring enchants and crit mundus stone. use 2 sharpened daggers too. and you should be fine

Inhuman003

Only way it can be done if ZoS make a new class that can wear heavy armor the Berserker.

timborggrenlarsenb16_ESO

ereboz wrote: »

So ZoS likes to pride themselves on having a game that you can play 'your way'. Well I would love to play a heavy armor 2h warrior monster dps. But that's just not viable in ESO due to the medium armor passives that are more suited to this play style. I would love for someone to correct me if I'm wrong, but is it even possible to do decent dps in pve, wearing heavy armor? I'm mostly referring to vet dungeons, don't really have any interest in trials

---

One big issue is that no you can't have HA and do dps, but you can have LA/MA and both been able to tank, solo. grp play and hand out tons of dps...See the point here
.........

Artis

You didn't expect to deal the same DPS as in medium armor given that you have way higher defense, right?

What's so special that you want about heavy armor DPS? Is it because of how you can do it in wow and how it looks badass? In that case, just wear whichever armor is better for DPS and use one of the costumes or disguises.

leepalmer95

Anti_Virus wrote: »

According to some people on the forums here Heavy armor somehow deals more damage than medium and light armor.

Pvp is completely different than pve.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

It's an MMO. There needs to be checks and balances.

Technically you can play how you want. I can easily switch between roles if I so choose. You have access to all armor and weapon lines.

jeremybrittain22b14_ESO

i know this is old but how far can i go in the game with 2h and heavy armor, like normal dungeons at max level, or possibly some vet ones, like at what point will the elitists start complaining or kick me from a group? I understand it wont be the highest dps of the group but, just how far can you push it before pugs care? * and i mean without trolling or playing poorly etc.

idk

ereboz wrote: »

So ZoS likes to pride themselves on having a game that you can play 'your way'. Well I would love to play a heavy armor 2h warrior monster dps. But that's just not viable in ESO due to the medium armor passives that are more suited to this play style. I would love for someone to correct me if I'm wrong, but is it even possible to do decent dps in pve, wearing heavy armor? I'm mostly referring to vet dungeons, don't really have any interest in trials

It is not possible to do the same level of dps wearing HA vs MA/LA, depending on the build. This is by design. When the devs added back a buff to HA for weapon/spell damage they stated that it was for those who chose to dps in HA, but that it is intended for HA to not be as good as dpsing in MA/LA.

And it should not be.

ESO is play as you want if one wants to push DPS then they will build for it.

Essentially, HA adds survivability, though many in PvE that wear it do it because they like the look. It is a choice.

Wifeaggro13

ereboz wrote: »

So ZoS likes to pride themselves on having a game that you can play 'your way'. Well I would love to play a heavy armor 2h warrior monster dps. But that's just not viable in ESO due to the medium armor passives that are more suited to this play style. I would love for someone to correct me if I'm wrong, but is it even possible to do decent dps in pve, wearing heavy armor? I'm mostly referring to vet dungeons, don't really have any interest in trials

it is not viable. Games in the past have circumvented the survivability issues with stances AOC used a stance system and it worked incredible you could take offensive or defensive , or go no stance depending on your stance it would alter your DPS and mitigation. a Dual wield Conq in offensive was a melee chainsaw and some of the best burst DPS in game but it came with a cost at being in close and needed a skilled player

leepalmer95

You can play as you want for 95% of pve.

For the end game you won't be able too because it's mean't to be difficult your mean't to out though into your build.

Play as you want does not equal be able to do everything on a sub par build.

Rex-Umbra

Medium is only 25% less armour for way higher DPS.

leepalmer95

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Medium is only 25% less armour for way higher DPS.

Not including heavy armor passives, healing passive, hp passive, heavy return passive etc..

Its not simply just 25% less armor.

Anti_Virus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

According to some people on the forums here Heavy armor somehow deals more damage than medium and light armor.

Pvp is completely different than pve.

How is there a different? If you can pull 35K- 40k dps in medium/light in PvP then it deals more damage in pvp.

Stop with the lunacy. Oh and to make you guys happy sis needed block and heavy sustain hopefully your happy that no one is an unkillable block build and no one runs heavy armor.

ADarklore

ereboz wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Welcome to ESO. Play your way is a lie.

Firstly, two handed is absolutely worst in PVE. It's horrible. Duel wield is superior in every single way. Superior AOE, superior single target potential. Secondly, medium armor is basicly all your gonna use.

Sad fact is, the only place where you can 'play how you want', is PVP. Because that's how the system was designed, it's a PVP system. Your setup is actually fairly popular in PVP and will continue to be until Twohander and heavy armor get nerfed into the ground and PVE suffers for it.

You make very valid points. Really is sad that this game has absolutely no balance. I'm not a fan of PvP but I know the vast majority of players are. So that's great for them, when it's not laggy AF. I really wish they could find a balance that allowed all players to play 'your way'

Hate to break it to you, but the majority of ESO players are PvE questers... PvP and PvE 'end game' are the minority players here in ESO and ZOS knows it. Just check who the majority of content is designed for, it's not PvP or 'end game' it's open-world quests... and there is a reason for that. ZOS has the data to show how many players are playing what content and they focus on the majority... sadly, it's the PvP aspect in this game that ends up hurting the majority because almost all nerfs are done due to PvP "balance"... since they refuse to separate PvE from PvP.

Avalon

And, also in the news:
You really can't have it your way, right away, at Burger King.

Valencer

Soooo, heavy armour gives you more survivability and you think it should also let you do as much damage as medium armour? And that would make the game more balanced... how? Sounds like you want heavy armour to be a no-brainer.

You can do ok damage in heavy armour if you really want to, but endgame PvE is about specialisation and medium armour let's you stack more crit and weapon damage, period. So knock yourself out and try a heavy armour DD build, but realise youre trading some damage for survivability. Funny how this balance thing works.