Things that break cloak

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Just wondering what new/old things everyone has found that breaks NB cloak (not counting actual legit counters like mage light, etc.) I'll start.

Sheer venom DoT. A guildie and I tested it out awhile back. He used poison injection to apply the 5 pc bonus from sheer venom and it breaks cloak lol. We tested poison injection without sheer venom and it did not break cloak.

What other fun ways are you breaking NB cloak that isn't technically intended?

cjthibs

Chasing someone while wearing the Sentry set used to work quite well for this.
Was great fun. Not sure if it still works since I haven't used the set in a while.

psychotic13

Pretty much everything, I don't even bother using it for pvp

joe.smith21b14_ESO

Wall of elements, curse when it is cast at the same time as cloak and the Templar ability vampires bane. Although I need more testing on the Templar ability

QuebraRegra

psychotic13 wrote: »

Pretty much everything, I don't even bother using it for pvp

I'm pretty sure a fart will break cloak in it's busted azz current nerfed form.

Give me back my non ganking DOT removal version.

LeifErickson

joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »

Wall of elements, curse when it is cast at the same time as cloak and the Templar ability vampires bane. Although I need more testing on the Templar ability

Wall of elements is suppose to take you out of cloak though.

joe.smith21b14_ESO

LeifErickson wrote: »

joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »

Wall of elements, curse when it is cast at the same time as cloak and the Templar ability vampires bane. Although I need more testing on the Templar ability

Wall of elements is suppose to take you out of cloak though.

Have your boy cast it and stand behind it and cast cloak you'll see

Toast_STS

Silver sharts

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Toast_STS wrote: »

Silver sharts

Lol

arkansas_ESO

Vampire's Bane/Reflective Light (this has been a thing since Dark Brotherhood first released)
You can be hit by the splash damage from Reverse Slice (ex. the user is hitting somebody else with it and you're nearby) while in Cloak
Gap closers
2H Forceful passive
Crushing Shock (sometimes)
Dragon Leap
Inferno

Then there's the intended stuff like Hurricane, Haunting Curse, Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweeps, Inhale, DK Talons, Fiery Breath/Noxious Breath, Piercing Mark, Magelight, etc. Every class should already have an ability on their bar that will also counter Cloak.

zuto40

dizzying swing, poison inject, radiant when the lags bad

Lord_MK

TBH I actually feel cloak is better than it's ever been.

technohic

It pretty much functions as speeding up crouch for me. if I am getting damaged by anything, it will pop me out usually but I kind of expect that.

Cinbri

Curse:

Lord-Otto

The tears of players not realizing Cloak is supposed to get you INTO a fight, not out of it.
No one can just run away from an already started fight, gapclosers make sure of that. NBs are no exception, as aren't sorcs. You got Shade for repositioning, use it.

Poison Injection most certainly breaks stealth.
Life steal from Entropy, too.

thankyourat

Lord-Otto wrote: »

The tears of players not realizing Cloak is supposed to get you INTO a fight, not out of it.
No one can just run away from an already started fight, gapclosers make sure of that. NBs are no exception, as aren't sorcs. You got Shade for repositioning, use it.

Poison Injection most certainly breaks stealth.
Life steal from Entropy, too.

If those things are breaking cloak it's not working as intended. I have had entropy break cloak I haven't really had poison injection break cloak unless it's laggy. Gap closers aren't suppose to break cloak either. Cloak for me has been working decently now as a escape though. Which is finally letting me run light armor in cyrodiil it's not as good as it's suppose to be, but it's alot better than its been. If you want to play magblade open world in light armor you are going to have a bad time if cloak doesn't work. One damage shield isn't enough.

H4RDFOX

Lord-Otto wrote: »

The tears of players not realizing Cloak is supposed to get you INTO a fight, not out of it.
No one can just run away from an already started fight, gapclosers make sure of that. NBs are no exception, as aren't sorcs. You got Shade for repositioning, use it.

Poison Injection most certainly breaks stealth.
Life steal from Entropy, too.

Stealth gets you into a fight, and I don't think Cloak is only meant for that. You have two morphs, one that guarantees a crit, and the other gives you minor protection. So I would guess that minor protection is a get-away morph. You can just stealth into a fight most cases. Signature abilities of other classes enable them to either take damage, heal very well, or streak out of the area. Cloak needs to be up to par when compared with other classes signature abilities. Maybe allow cloak to remain, but still take the damage.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Lord-Otto wrote: »

The tears of players not realizing Cloak is supposed to get you INTO a fight, not out of it.
No one can just run away from an already started fight, gapclosers make sure of that. NBs are no exception, as aren't sorcs. You got Shade for repositioning, use it.

Poison Injection most certainly breaks stealth.
Life steal from Entropy, too.

The whole point of cloak in this game and literally ever game that utilizes a similar skill is to actually go in AND get out if needed.

Plus, we aren't talking about escaping and running away from the fight. If by your standards the skill is to get you into a fight you would use it once to get into said fight and never use it again until the fights over. Clearly this is not the skills purpose.

The skills purpose has been defined BY ZoS in patch notes and early skill demonstrations.

The skill is to be used for repositioning and to get aggro/damage off for a moment, whether it be PvE or PvP. It's a nightblades main defense, considering the lack there of. Though shadow image is a good skill, good players see where you dropped the shade and easily gap close to its position unless you happened to put the shade out of LoS.

There are many skills right now that are breaking cloak and it's UNINTENDED. This post was made to find those skills to bring them to light so other NB's can educate themselves and be ready to expect their main defensive ability to fail so they can properly plan for a counter and not over rely on a broken skill.

Lord-Otto

No. Healing is a NB's main defense. Then comes block/dodge/shield/cloak.

The skill does exactly what was described. You get in fast, without crouch speed penalty. You can even be faster with Concealed. You then get to choose a guaranteed strong opening attack or a bit damage mitigation, which helps bring in a long combo.
It does indeed take heat off of you mid-combat, just not the full duration. Even if it takes me one second to break your cloak, that's one second with inferior damage output on my side and might screw my combo. If it takes me more time, which is likely, you gained an advantage.

I'm with you to fix certain unintended skills pulling you out of it. But I'm strongly against making it work reliably all the time, that would be stupidly OP. I remember very well Cloak purging off my MagDK's DoTs, resetting the fight whenever the NB pleased. This is what would happen to all other classes, if Cloak didn't have numerous counters.

Lokey0024

Sneezing, coughing, moving, breathing, thinking. Lag tho is whats breaking stealth.

Lettigall

It's easier to list things that doesn't break cloak! That ability is broken as F!

DannyLV702

Every mother *** thing in this game breaks cloak

mtwiggz

That mysterious blade of grass that always seems to break your cloak...

arkansas_ESO

Lord-Otto wrote: »

No. Healing is a NB's main defense. Then comes block/dodge/shield/cloak.

The skill does exactly what was described. You get in fast, without crouch speed penalty. You can even be faster with Concealed. You then get to choose a guaranteed strong opening attack or a bit damage mitigation, which helps bring in a long combo.
It does indeed take heat off of you mid-combat, just not the full duration. Even if it takes me one second to break your cloak, that's one second with inferior damage output on my side and might screw my combo. If it takes me more time, which is likely, you gained an advantage.

I'm with you to fix certain unintended skills pulling you out of it. But I'm strongly against making it work reliably all the time, that would be stupidly OP. I remember very well Cloak purging off my MagDK's DoTs, resetting the fight whenever the NB pleased. This is what would happen to all other classes, if Cloak didn't have numerous counters.

If healing is our main defense, like how healing is the main defense for DK and Templar, then why don't we have Major Mending like DK and Templar?

Lord-Otto

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

No. Healing is a NB's main defense. Then comes block/dodge/shield/cloak.

The skill does exactly what was described. You get in fast, without crouch speed penalty. You can even be faster with Concealed. You then get to choose a guaranteed strong opening attack or a bit damage mitigation, which helps bring in a long combo.
It does indeed take heat off of you mid-combat, just not the full duration. Even if it takes me one second to break your cloak, that's one second with inferior damage output on my side and might screw my combo. If it takes me more time, which is likely, you gained an advantage.

I'm with you to fix certain unintended skills pulling you out of it. But I'm strongly against making it work reliably all the time, that would be stupidly OP. I remember very well Cloak purging off my MagDK's DoTs, resetting the fight whenever the NB pleased. This is what would happen to all other classes, if Cloak didn't have numerous counters.

If healing is our main defense, like how healing is the main defense for DK and Templar, then why don't we have Major Mending like DK and Templar?

Because you have Minor Berserk, unlike anyone else.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

What heals? We are talking class abilities now, since you bring up minor berserk. Considering all NB heals are Hots or purely situational (like having to kill the person to get the heal) this makes healing a secondary defense. There is a reason you see zero NB tanks in pvp now. Heavy armor doesnt synergize well with NB unless you want to go proctard potato tremorscale setup that people use here and there. secondary defense like HoTs cannot compete with the burst. Your 600 tick HP a second wont save you from my 20k IC. You need either burst heals or shields. What does leave? Block, dodge roll, shields, cloak.

Seeing as every class can block, dodge roll, use shield those are dont count towards NB main class specific defense. Also all the above are fully dependant on armor setup.

When it comes to class abilities cloak is NB's sorc shield, DK's blood (which thankfully is better again), or choose any one of the healing skills a templar has. That's it's purpose. That's it Balance. Cloak has a plethora of skills that break it and are intended, especially compared to the amount of skills that cause defile which would counter heals, but barely considering CP possibilities.

Cloak has seen pretty massive nerfs since launch. Removing DoTs is a thing of the past. Casting vigor while cloaked is gone. Though I agree these things needed to be nerfed, they nerfed the skill without focusing on at least making the skill work as intended.

This again, talking about class skills only. But when comparing what a class has and doesn't have, you really can't talk about things outside of the 4 different classes abilities.

I don't depend on cloak because I know it's broken but since beta everyone has known it as a defensive skill, so much so that's why it has been nerf ed in the first place. If it wasn't the main NB defense it wouldn't be used and no one would of ever complained about it being OP and needing a nerf.

Lord-Otto

No.

H4RDFOX

Brought valid points, and still can't accept it, not even a valid counter. The DK having an issue with taking down a NB then, is a NB having an issue taking down a DK with its tanking and self heal nature, a Templar with its healing and tanking nature, a Sorc with its shield stack heal sometimes tanking nature. That's nowhere near fair in terms of nerf/buff, and balanced by any means. The argument is signature abilities working for other classes, and it's the opposite for NB. NBs don't have shield stacking, reliable self heals, and tankage capabilities that are up to par with everyone else.

Vizier

Damage/healing ticks from Vicecannon's set. They break shadowy disguise every tick, so my roughly 3 second spell is usually 1-2 seconds. Annoying as _

Basically anything with a Dot. I suspect some ranged abilities are still hitting even after cloak is cast too. So basically farting in the general direction of a NB will knock him out of stealth.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

There is no valid counter that's why.

But lets all agree on the most OP thing right now....PC/mac megaserver maintenance....Did Tamriel explode or something?

josh.lackey_ESO

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

What heals? We are talking class abilities now, since you bring up minor berserk. Considering all NB heals are Hots or purely situational (like having to kill the person to get the heal) this makes healing a secondary defense. There is a reason you see zero NB tanks in pvp now. Heavy armor doesnt synergize well with NB unless you want to go proctard potato tremorscale setup that people use here and there. secondary defense like HoTs cannot compete with the burst. Your 600 tick HP a second wont save you from my 20k IC. You need either burst heals or shields. What does leave? Block, dodge roll, shields, cloak.

I refer to @NightbladeMechanics. NB even has passives that specifically scale off heavy armor. NB tank is just not meta right now. Neither is mageblade in general, outside of some obnoxious bomb-blade builds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZES4RlNrfU

As far as cloak goes, since Homestead, it appears to function like a dodge roll, causing targeted abilities to miss. This is an incredibly powerful buff. I am not sure why so many people are still complaining about it. Sure it doesn't purge dots like it used to, but for the most part, they won't pop you out. Yeah, curse is a counter. It's not a hard counter. As far as splash damage abilities like silver shards and reflective light, I am not sure if they are working as intended. On the one hand, you could say they are AoE so they hit and reveal you. On the other, you could say that they are dodgeable, so they shouldn't. Of course you can cloak out of a channeled ability like RD, which can't be dodged. So maybe cloak is unique like that. I would suggest not being too close to people as a general rule anyway: you never know when someone is going to blow them up with VD.

NB has access to whatever heals go with their build, either healing ward or rally/vigor. As far as a class burst heal, you know Soul Siphon is the most powerful heal in the game. Even more powerful than templar and resto ults.

I've seen some incredible non-tank mageblade 1vX without even relying on cloak (specifically Vita Belial, who I always stop to watch.) I am absolutely certain that you don't need cloak to be competitive in Cyrodiil. In my personal experience, mageblades use it to be annoying and troll, while stamblades use it to execute cheap ganks. Both okay in small doses, I guess, but rather toxic to pvp as a mainstay.