Stealth is too Strong

Glory

ku5h wrote: »

Glory wrote: »

ku5h wrote: »

Yea i bet ancient Roman soldiers were also thinking stealth is to OP. When they fought Gauls, Germanic and British tribes, they were ambushes many times by entire armies. Imagine Roman legatus watching entire army of angry Gauls poping up from tall grass not more then 50m away from Roman column, thinking to himself "My Gods this stealth is so *** OP!". What im trying to say is, you dont need magic world to be able to hide near your enemy. Just go watch the way modern snipers hide, he can be literaly beneath your feet and you wont notice him.

Yeah, I'm sure those Gauls also had bonus stealth damage and a stun from stealth.

Applying real world concepts to a video game to justify it is stupid lol

You write such nonsense and you call me stupid! Maybe if you wrote "Applying video game concepts to real world is stupid!" would make sense, but what you wrote does not.

You are trying to argue that because people utilize guerilla warfare and stealth tactics in the real world, that it is reasonable for people in ESO to be able to have similar abilities.

I am pointing out that simply because something exists in the real world, it does not necessitate its existence in this game. I am also pointing out that beyond stealthing in general (which I personally do not hold issue with), stealthing in this game provides several benefits beyond the element of surprise.

It is stupid to argue that a real world viability justifies game viability for stealth. It is also stupid that stealthing in game not only give you the drop on an unsuspecting enemy, but it also provides guaranteed crit, crit damage, and stun.

TheBonesXXX

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Perhaps this speaks of your inability to think as a stealth player, it is a thought process that requires a bit more finesse than "ME HAVE HAMMER" or "ME BIG TANK" or "ME HAVE FIVE WARDS AND DEMONS AND LIGHTNING" OR "ME POKEY POKEY YOU WITH LAZER"

The truth is you did not put the forethought into the trap to realize it is a trap. You haphazardly relied on your perception of the situation, not realizing it was an illusion to get you killed.

It was working perfectly as intended and you got yourself killed.

Damn those distal and proximal stimulus' or lack there of.

Read the first post of the thread. I admit that it was a great trap. Props to the people who used the current mechanics to their advantage.

It's important to understand that I'm using my experience as an example to lead into a larger point - that I think it's ridiculous that a small army can be hiding in BROAD DAYLIGHT IN A SUNNY OPEN FIELD (because apparently I think in caps).

I can tell you as a military Veteran, we hide in broad sunny open fields all the time and if you cannot do it, you do not excel into Special Forces, its kind of a requirement.

We play a game where you can shoot someone with artillery and they still can charge you and shrug off the blow even though in reality it'd kill everyone it landed near.

GrumpyDuckling

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Perhaps this speaks of your inability to think as a stealth player, it is a thought process that requires a bit more finesse than "ME HAVE HAMMER" or "ME BIG TANK" or "ME HAVE FIVE WARDS AND DEMONS AND LIGHTNING" OR "ME POKEY POKEY YOU WITH LAZER"

The truth is you did not put the forethought into the trap to realize it is a trap. You haphazardly relied on your perception of the situation, not realizing it was an illusion to get you killed.

It was working perfectly as intended and you got yourself killed.

Damn those distal and proximal stimulus' or lack there of.

Read the first post of the thread. I admit that it was a great trap. Props to the people who used the current mechanics to their advantage.

It's important to understand that I'm using my experience as an example to lead into a larger point - that I think it's ridiculous that a small army can be hiding in BROAD DAYLIGHT IN A SUNNY OPEN FIELD (because apparently I think in caps).

It's also rediculous people shoot lightning out of their hands and people turn into werewolves. It's a game. Sunlight is in your imagination. There is no spoon!

Minalan wrote: »

Stealth is only 'OP' now because Miats addon (which was kept private and secret before) no longer works.

at the complaints. At least now we knew who was using the add-on all last patch.

I play on Xbox One and as far as I know addons don't exist on console. I still believe that stealth is still too strong if 12+ players can hide in an open field 15 meters away from their target.

Muramasa89

Perhaps some restrictions around keeps, especially inside if your faction doesn't occupy it. Still, some people can only ever get kills by sneaky back attacks when you're not expecting it, even if I think that's a bad way to play, it's still a valid way. Plus, if I ever have to run off to do something IRL, it's really nice to find a nice spot and slap sneak on and not have to worry.

Enslaved

OP: "I was killed and it hurts"
True story.

Volrion

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Tonight I was playing in Scourge. After helping my alliance defend a keep I mounted my horse and started heading towards Cropsford to meet up and quest with a friend. Not too far from the keep I noticed a Covenant forward camp sitting in an open field. I figured I should burn it down. I approached the camp and just when I was about to torch it, a group of 12+ Covenant players popped out of stealth and dropped me.

It was a great trap. I give them credit for tricking me into it. It really bothers me, though, that the forward camp was set up in an open field, in broad daylight, with at least 12 enemies completely invisible to me within a 15 meter radius. I think that stealth needs to be examined when a small army is capable of hiding in broad daylight in an open field.

L2P.

If you're between keeps, on your own, unless you're a 1vX OG, you're going to have a bad time.

Be tactical, man.

There are spots on the map that you just don't ride without a group.

Sneak adds a great layer to the tactics of a fight.

For example, it gives smaller groups a chance against large groups by way of an ambush, or in this case, it appears the D.C. were waiting for the Zerg to pass on to the next keep so they could re-flag and get the jump on the defended keep you were just at.

There's no need to remove or "evaluate" it. Learn to use it to your own advantage.

Good luck out there

GrumpyDuckling

Why are multiple posters trying to turn this into a L2P issue? Read the first post. It's very clear that the DC players tricked me with their forward camp and I give them credit for utilizing the current game mechanics to their advantage.

The focus of this discussion is not about my lack of skill, it's about stealth being too strong (example: when a group of 12+ players can be completely invisible in broad daylight 15 meters away from an opponent).

GrumpyDuckling

Enslaved wrote: »

OP: "I was killed and it hurts"
True story.

Please avoid creating fake quotes. If you'd like to contribute to the discussion that would be welcomed.

Enslaved

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

OP: "I was killed and it hurts"
True story.

Please avoid creating fake quotes. If you'd like to contribute to the discussion that would be welcomed.

"Stealth is too strong"
"I am too cheap to use radiant magelight/detection pots"
"GAME SHOULD BE MADE TO PLEASE ME"

I don't always say L2P, but this is classic L2P issue. So you were outplayed in PvP. Outsmarted. Zerged down when you least expected. So what. Learn to use detection skills/pots. Learn that overconfidence kills. For some reason, I dont think you will learn this at all. Not because you have learning disability, but because you dont care. You want 3rd wheel on your PvP bike, to be good without even trying. That is fine with me, but let me express my disagreement with what you ask for in my own, heartless way. Who knows, maybe you even get good one day because of wanting to prove me and other similar jerks that we were wrong. Good luck, and do use detection skills/pots next time. May the force be with you.

IcyDeadPeople

The stealth system is simply a simulation of stealth, like the combat system and most other game systems.

There is no complex dynamic cover mechanic, but if you were a sneaky khajiit in real life, you could hide in the shadows, in bushes, trees, even disguise yourself as an enemy player, etc. This is simulated by crouching and reduced detection radius etc.
.

Katahdin

Stealth is not OP. It's working as intended. As anyone on the military will tell you, if you have the skills you can hide anywhere in broad daylight.

Your thinking and situational awareness were UP in this case.

Learn from it and don't make the same mistake again.

bubbygink

I do this it is a little hilarious when something like this happens: http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Bubbygink/video/23814689

That being said I like the ability to stealth. Helps us solo/small group players avoid getting run over by zergs all the time and it allows for some interesting surprise tactics.

t3hdubzy

Is it too late to roll back thieves guild?


If stealth dies in this game its time for me to find a new game.

GrumpyDuckling

Enslaved wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

OP: "I was killed and it hurts"
True story.

Please avoid creating fake quotes. If you'd like to contribute to the discussion that would be welcomed.

"Stealth is too strong"
"I am too cheap to use radiant magelight/detection pots"
"GAME SHOULD BE MADE TO PLEASE ME"

I don't always say L2P, but this is classic L2P issue. So you were outplayed in PvP. Outsmarted. Zerged down when you least expected. So what. Learn to use detection skills/pots. Learn that overconfidence kills. For some reason, I dont think you will learn this at all. Not because you have learning disability, but because you dont care. You want 3rd wheel on your PvP bike, to be good without even trying. That is fine with me, but let me express my disagreement with what you ask for in my own, heartless way. Who knows, maybe you even get good one day because of wanting to prove me and other similar jerks that we were wrong. Good luck, and do use detection skills/pots next time. May the force be with you.

How are you contributing to the discussion by creating more fake quotes and insinuating that I have a learning disability?

GrumpyDuckling

bubbygink wrote: »

I do this it is a little hilarious when something like this happens: http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Bubbygink/video/23814689

That being said I like the ability to stealth. Helps us solo/small group players avoid getting run over by zergs all the time and it allows for some interesting surprise tactics.

Interesting take on stealth helping solo/small players to avoid getting run over by zergs. However in a case with a small army stealthing in an open field, don't you think that works in reverse?

Enslaved

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

OP: "I was killed and it hurts"
True story.

Please avoid creating fake quotes. If you'd like to contribute to the discussion that would be welcomed.

"Stealth is too strong"
"I am too cheap to use radiant magelight/detection pots"
"GAME SHOULD BE MADE TO PLEASE ME"

I don't always say L2P, but this is classic L2P issue. So you were outplayed in PvP. Outsmarted. Zerged down when you least expected. So what. Learn to use detection skills/pots. Learn that overconfidence kills. For some reason, I dont think you will learn this at all. Not because you have learning disability, but because you dont care. You want 3rd wheel on your PvP bike, to be good without even trying. That is fine with me, but let me express my disagreement with what you ask for in my own, heartless way. Who knows, maybe you even get good one day because of wanting to prove me and other similar jerks that we were wrong. Good luck, and do use detection skills/pots next time. May the force be with you.

How are you contributing to the discussion by creating more fake quotes and insinuating that I have a learning disability?

I see. You just wanted pat on the back. Ok.

Stealth is broken, remove stealth, there is no need for it in ESO and also it made OP sad. #externalreproductiveorgansownersdontneedstealth

kadar

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

The stealth system is simply a simulation of stealth, like the combat system and most other game systems.

There is no complex dynamic cover mechanic, but if you were a sneaky khajiit in real life, you could hide in the shadows, in bushes, trees, even disguise yourself as an enemy player, etc. This is simulated by crouching and reduced detection radius etc.
.

@GrumpyDuckling
Yep. Stealth is only as strong as the players using it. Imagine if those stealthed players were potatoes. All they could do is potate as you leisurely mist form back to your keep. Is stealth still OP in that situation?

There's no real argument that stealth doesn't "make sense" as far as a group hiding in plain sight/broad daylight ect. Most of the mechanics/features in this MMORPG don't make sense by that logic. This isn't a simulation for a real life war/battle.

Also... Stealth is fun.

Sureshawt

Nope.

Stealth adds an element of surprise. It is fun and well implemented in the game. It is available to everyone and plenty of ways to counter which are also available to everyone.

mook-eb16_ESO

Did you ever use detect pots? adds what 20m detect? essential equipment.

Nutshotz

I have a feeling this is a nerf stealth thread.

QuebraRegra

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Tonight I was playing in Scourge. After helping my alliance defend a keep I mounted my horse and started heading towards Cropsford to meet up and quest with a friend. Not too far from the keep I noticed a Covenant forward camp sitting in an open field. I figured I should burn it down. I approached the camp and just when I was about to torch it, a group of 12+ Covenant players popped out of stealth and dropped me.

It was a great trap. I give them credit for tricking me into it. It really bothers me, though, that the forward camp was set up in an open field, in broad daylight, with at least 12 enemies completely invisible to me within a 15 meter radius. I think that stealth needs to be examined when a small army is capable of hiding in broad daylight in an open field.

Here's a video demonstrating EXACTLY how it's done... better yet, in REAL LIFE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Bx9nyw35w&t=1m10s

WOLVERINES!

Knootewoot

I agree with OP. Stealth should work in PvE, but in PvP an entire army hiding in plain sight should not work. If you want to "hide", go behind trees and rocks. Stealth should maybe blur the player a bit and hide it's name/alliance indicator.

Won't happen though. But one may discuss this.

Only nightblades should be able to be invisible with cloak

Damn you peasants. Can't catch me now.

*CLOAK*

Runschei

Thought this was another thread about nerfing nightblades but turned out we just want logic in our game o.O