Why templar healers never use Vigor?

Kneighbors

I just wonder, why templar healers never use it? It is so effective, I can only see pros:

1) Templar healer has nothing to do with stamina anyway.
2) It's HoT for whole team, not like Mutagen for you and random guy or two.
3) Makes you save magicka.
4) This:


Together with SPC it's just activating straight both buffs for dungeon group. Cast it every 10 seconds and you are good.

What is your opinion?

paulsimonps

Templar healers use The Power of the Light to give out Minor Breach and Fracture so that is a stamina ability. Also Off-tanks use Powerful Assault with Vigor to give out that buff. Healers need to use SPC+Worm or SPC+either mending or Twilight, not that IA is not worth it anymore. And in some trials you don't have to have a main tank set up as main tank but can use the off tank set up to give out the buff.

Also the heal from vigor on a Magicka healer will be super low. Waste of a rotation spot.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO

Because it scales with Stamina not Magicka. Being a magic user you need to be extra conservative in the use of your small stamina pool for necessary dodges, break frees, and even blocking. Using that precious Stam for vigor instead of complete evasion is a detriment to yourself

The healing output with full Magicka gear and 100 points into Blessed, of Resolving Vigor, is only around 7k to yourself and the HOT is weak.

You could run a hybrid healer/Stam dps build and run vigor along with some Magicka heals. But it will never be optimal.

stevepdodson_ESO888

perhaps...just perhaps the new Warden class might have stamina based heals and then this set plus vigor might be useful on a stamina healer...pure speculation on my part

austinwalter87ub17_ESO

What you are suggesting might go well with the new Warden class. Wardens appear to be very hybrid friendly.

Tommy_The_Gun

Stamina healing will never be as good as magicka based. Vigor is only good as a "support" healing if you are stamina based. The group healer should always be magicka based, unfortunately.

Kneighbors

paulsimonps wrote: »

Templar healers use The Power of the Light to give out Minor Breach and Fracture so that is a stamina ability. Also Off-tanks use Powerful Assault with Vigor to give out that buff. Healers need to use SPC+Worm or SPC+either mending or Twilight, not that IA is not worth it anymore. And in some trials you don't have to have a main tank set up as main tank but can use the off tank set up to give out the buff.

Also the heal from vigor on a Magicka healer will be super low. Waste of a rotation spot.

For trials Powerful Assault is surely not the best for a heal, although I don't think it's the worst. But talking about dungeons, it's really rare to find a tank wearing PA. Or for the upcoming 5v5v5 arena where it's probable won't be a "tank" role at all.

In terms of healing I'm not sure it's much worster than mutagen. Only because of buffing it's actually much better.

Izaki

Most healers perma-block or somewhere close to that. So they do actually have a lot to do with their 10k stamina pool. Also Power of the Light is often used by healers too. Plus Vigor scales off weapon damage and max stamina, neither of which are abundant in a healer build. Off-tanks run Powerful Assault anyway as well as Vigor healing, tanks also throw in some Vigor heals.

idk

@Kneighbors

Healers have other sets more beneficial. SPC is worn by all trial healers I have run with. Other sets like Mending fill out the rest of their gear..

Powerful Assault that you mention is worn by a tank if anyone and yes, some tanks go in 5 pc medium armor, especially OT.

So, you are correct that PA is beneficial for the raid, just trying to place it on the wrong role. Oh, also, a stam tank will provide even more of a benefit with that set since Vigor is a stam skill. In other words it is an extremely weak heal on a healer. Also, Echoing Vigor will hit more people.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

I use 100% of my stamina on rapid manuevers. 2 blocks and my guy needs a nap.

Ivehn

I think one of the reasons is that healers do not have a big stamina pool being magicka-based roles, so casting vigor would then put pressure in their stamina management for other things like roll-dodging and blocking. However, that set seems nice for stamina characters that do use vigor, to provide buffing, and even some off-healing.

idk

Kneighbors wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Templar healers use The Power of the Light to give out Minor Breach and Fracture so that is a stamina ability. Also Off-tanks use Powerful Assault with Vigor to give out that buff. Healers need to use SPC+Worm or SPC+either mending or Twilight, not that IA is not worth it anymore. And in some trials you don't have to have a main tank set up as main tank but can use the off tank set up to give out the buff.

Also the heal from vigor on a Magicka healer will be super low. Waste of a rotation spot.

For trials Powerful Assault is surely not the best for a heal, although I don't think it's the worst. But talking about dungeons, it's really rare to find a tank wearing PA. Or for the upcoming 5v5v5 arena where it's probable won't be a "tank" role at all.

In terms of healing I'm not sure it's much worster than mutagen. Only because of buffing it's actually much better.

For the battle grounds healers will have to gear for survival, heals are secondary. Powerful assault should be worn by a dps in there.

Sleep

because it only works for organized groups.

Kneighbors

What I understand here is that most people simply don't see the difference between dungeon gear and trial gear. Probably the same goes for skills. While the difference is huge. Ofcourse when you are cp600 healer and all your team is self sustained you can pass most of vet dungeons naked. But if you will look at effective way of doing so Vigor+PA used by healer will overcome many combinations you normally see used in dungeon.

Do you realise that MOST healers in ESO don't even play in trials as healers? That their limit is in vet dungeons?

Speaking about effectiveness of Vigor we may compare it on my healer with Mutagen:
Vigor: 4350 health over 5 seconds for all team 15m.
Mutagen: 2 allies 10681 health over 20 seconds.
So it's twice more health per seconds, ~840 health per second is weak?

I'm capable of casting Vigor every 5 seconds, 2.6k of my 14.5k is not that bad. And yea you can cast minor breach on boss together with that and still will be good. 30k of magicka with 2.2k regen is more than enough even for mediocre healer to heal really well. And it's more than enough for experienced healer for veteran trials.

Unsent.Soul

Not sure if OP is trolling or serious...

jbjondeaueb17_ESO

And for having testing it, Powerful Assault is slightly bugged, apart if the one of the 4 players are out of range of the buff it stays all the fight on the 4 same players, small buff for only 4 "random" players, not refreshing like Spell Power Cure.

brandonv516

You can create a hybrid templar with roughly 30k magicka, 30k stamina, and 15k health. Then your Vigor, Healing Springs, and Breath of Life will be good.

I personally feel more comfortable with around 18-20k health.

KingYogi415

Block casting and dodge rolls are super important. A dead healer is a bad one.

Good healers may even run tri-food for harder encounters.

Cheers!

AlMcFly

Stamina skill.

Also, Templar class magicka heals are superior.

KingYogi415

brandonv516 wrote: »

You can create a hybrid templar with roughly 30k magicka, 30k stamina, and 15k health. Then your Vigor, Healing Springs, and Breath of Life will be good.

I personally feel more comfortable with around 18-20k health.

Both would be half-ass heals. Fine to roleplay a normal dungeon. But do not do this if you ever want to do vet dungeons.

brandonv516

KingYogi415 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

You can create a hybrid templar with roughly 30k magicka, 30k stamina, and 15k health. Then your Vigor, Healing Springs, and Breath of Life will be good.

I personally feel more comfortable with around 18-20k health.

Both would be half-ass heals. Fine to roleplay a normal dungeon. But do not do this if you ever want to do vet dungeons.

Ahem you meant trials. This is very capable in vet dungeons. Consider the CP setup and you'll see that it is very possible to have quality heals.

Kneighbors

brandonv516 wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

You can create a hybrid templar with roughly 30k magicka, 30k stamina, and 15k health. Then your Vigor, Healing Springs, and Breath of Life will be good.

I personally feel more comfortable with around 18-20k health.

Both would be half-ass heals. Fine to roleplay a normal dungeon. But do not do this if you ever want to do vet dungeons.

Ahem you meant trials. This is very capable in vet dungeons. Consider the CP setup and you'll see that it is very possible to have quality heals.

Well I'm cp530 and you've seen my stats. If you will sum up my magicka+stamina+health I get 62k pool. This guy suggests I need to create one with 75k pool (how? ). Yes, this is very capable not only in vet dungeons but in any content of the game.

Well I observed in dungeons that 90% of the healers don't use shields. Most of the top healers I saw did tho. Judging by the replies here I can notice that the percentage of supa-healars who have no idea what magic shield is the same here. Roll dodging much, heh? For a vet dungeon if you roll dodge more than 10 times as healer in a whole dungeon something is wrong with your (or your groups) playstile.

Kneighbors

Kneighbors wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

You can create a hybrid templar with roughly 30k magicka, 30k stamina, and 15k health. Then your Vigor, Healing Springs, and Breath of Life will be good.

I personally feel more comfortable with around 18-20k health.

Both would be half-ass heals. Fine to roleplay a normal dungeon. But do not do this if you ever want to do vet dungeons.

Ahem you meant trials. This is very capable in vet dungeons. Consider the CP setup and you'll see that it is very possible to have quality heals.

Well I'm cp530 and you've seen my stats. If you will sum up my magicka+stamina+health I get 62k pool. This guy suggests I need to create one with 75k pool (how? ). Yes, this is very capable not only in vet dungeons but in any content of the game.

Well I observed in dungeons that 90% of the healers don't use shields. Most of the top healers I saw did tho. Judging by the replies here I can notice that the percentage of supa-healars who have no idea what magic shield is the same here.

KingYogi415 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

You can create a hybrid templar with roughly 30k magicka, 30k stamina, and 15k health. Then your Vigor, Healing Springs, and Breath of Life will be good.

I personally feel more comfortable with around 18-20k health.

Both would be half-ass heals. Fine to roleplay a normal dungeon. But do not do this if you ever want to do vet dungeons.

My build is 30k magica, 17k health and 14.5k stamina, as I posted above in a picture. I manage super well with this build in any vet dungeon (why not, lol?). So this guy took 2k health and gave me 15k stamina, you think it will make it harder for me? Seriously?

Blackbird_V

Because extended ritual is better

Oompuh

Your tank should be using it and they don't stack. Plus you have a small stam pool

Reorx_Holybeard

There are many reasons but ultimately it boils down to "there are better options":

1. I need to save Stamina for Blocking, Bashing, Roll Dodging, Running, etc... On my healer build I almost always use Health+Magicka food so end up with only 9k stamina and 550 regen. At a base cost of 2600 stamina this means I could only cast it once every 10 secs anyways even if I did dare risk losing the Stamina for it.
2. It scales with Stamina so it does very little healing on a Magicka build. On my healer Mutagen does basically the same as healing Vigor per tick but Mutagen lasts 4 times as long and is essentially free for me to cast.
3. A limited radius compared to other healing skills, 10-15 m compared to 28 m for Mutagen. Even if it was a good heal I'm not sure I would use it in most fights due to the limited range.
4. I have too many skills to use and not enough slots! As a healer I'm expected to both heal and buff and then DPS as the situation permits. Even without considering Vigor I have too many skills I don't have space to slot and have to pick and choose depending on the group and circumstances.

So for your typical Magicka healer build there are many more skills that are better to be slotted than Vigor. On a "non-standard" hybrid type build it might be useful and probably more than doable for most content, but then again you can also do most content without a healer at all in theory.

KingYogi415

@Kneighbors

Have you ever done a vet dungeon?

Almost every single boss has a 1 shot that needs to be avoided. Some after you are pulled in.

Also in vet trail's you need harness magic up and stam to blockcast during mitigation phases.