RNG quote from Kai

runagate

I can't attest to the veracity of the Google translation, but:

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

One of the information discussed in connection with Morrowind reporting is the fact that the team is well aware of how problematic the RNG system is and is thinking about ways to solve it, such as a token system.

Taleof2Cities

runagate wrote: »

I can't attest to the veracity of the Google translation, but:

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

One of the information discussed in connection with Morrowind reporting is the fact that the team is well aware of how problematic the RNG system is and is thinking about ways to solve it, such as a token system.

Thank you, sir!

RNG is being talked about at ZOS!

runagate

Well, the word that really stood out was token. I suspect, just to be different, they'll come up with something much more frustrating than I'm initially hoping.

Tommy_The_Gun

runagate wrote: »

I can't attest to the veracity of the Google translation, but:

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

One of the information discussed in connection with Morrowind reporting is the fact that the team is well aware of how problematic the RNG system is and is thinking about ways to solve it, such as a token system.

I suspect the "token" system could be useful. For every boss in a group dungeon instead of gear set you will get a token, so in the end you could use those token to get for example "Chest container" - that will give you random chest piece of the gear you are grinding. You would simply have better control of your reward and grinding time will decrees.

umagon

runagate wrote: »

I can't attest to the veracity of the Google translation, but:

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

One of the information discussed in connection with Morrowind reporting is the fact that the team is well aware of how problematic the RNG system is and is thinking about ways to solve it, such as a token system.

Some players may think a token system is going to lower the acquisition time of desired items. However, it may not because zos uses a mostly award based retention system. If they change anything I doubt the acquisition times would be lower. They will most likely just obfuscate the new system so players are not aware there has been no or little change in desired item acquisition times.

I think they are only looking at rng because players are now aware that it is setup intentionally to waste their time. And zos hopes that the longer customers play the more they will spend on subscriptions, dlc, crown store items, and expansions.

RoyJade

I don't expect the acquisition time would be lower. But I do expect that I'll have a guaranteed perfect maelstrom weapon or undaunted shoulder after one hundred runs/keys. Actually, it's not often the case.

bubbygink

Would be 100% behind a token system for things like Maelstrom. Just unfair that some people have literally run it a thousand times and not gotten what they want but others get it on the first go. A token system would resolve this but would still make players work/grind for what they want by forcing them to say, for example, compete vMA 50 times to get enough tokens to buy their perfectly traited weapon.

SaRuZ

The entire point of this game is to play the content, right? So how is 90% of time spent playing just to gear for the content or farm enough gold to buy gear for the content, remotely fun? I've farmed so many sets. Viper, SPC, Spinners, Mother's Sorrow, Winterborn, Lich, the list goes on, at this point, I label myself a masochist for still playing this game.

Faulgor

Translation is fine.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

RNG is being talked about at ZOS!

Well, let's hope they didn't bring anyone else on board from Bioware Austion, because those lads thinks appalling bad RNG stacked on top of atrociously bad RNG is "exciting".

All The Best

Taleof2Cities

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

RNG is being talked about at ZOS!

Well, let's hope they didn't bring anyone else on board from Bioware Austion, because those lads thinks appalling bad RNG stacked on top of atrociously bad RNG is "exciting".

All The Best

I don't disagree ... hard to temper the excitement though.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

If anybody has been paying attention, we just got a huge token system. Master writs are absolutely a token system, but of course, there is RNG associated with how said tokens are acquired. The crown crates are also in fact a token system, but again, RNG is associated with acquiring said tokens.

I expect something similar at some point with gear. Admittedly, these RNG based token systems still can leave a bitter taste in your mouth, but they are better than nothing.

Artis

Knowing zos wouldn't be surprised if they did something dumb like tokens. But then again, maybe they will do something good. Time will show.

All they need to do, is get rid of useless traits.

t3hdubzy

10 percent of the time ZOS will make changes to RNG

AlMcFly

runagate wrote: »

Well, the word that really stood out was token. I suspect, just to be different, they'll come up with something much more frustrating than I'm initially hoping.

Ha! This is how I imagine the discussion going:

ZOS PR Rep #1: "Our studies show that even though RNG is a monetary dream for companies, it's overwhelmingly unpopular in playerbase opinion."

ZOS Lead Dev #1: "I've heard people are particularly vocal about the Undaunted set RNG. Perhaps we create a token system that allow people to purchase a shoulder piece if they have enough tokens?"

ZOS Manager #1: "Sure, but how do you suggest players gain these tokens in the first place?"

ZOS Lead Dev #2: "Let's make tokens have a small chance of dropping from Veteran Dungeon final bosses!"

Smartest man in the room: "Um, isn't that in itself a form of RNG?"

Group: "Ah, no no, it's TOTALLY different."

*group begins high-fiving each other*

luen79rwb17_ESO

Any mechanism that garantees you'll eventually be able to get what you want is far better than mere luck.

Master writs are a pain and have RNG involved too, it's true, but I know that eventually I'll have enough to get what I want, at the pace I want.

I believe that system is much better than the randomness we have now.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour

Welcome to the token grind...

jcaceresw

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

runagate wrote: »

I can't attest to the veracity of the Google translation, but:

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

One of the information discussed in connection with Morrowind reporting is the fact that the team is well aware of how problematic the RNG system is and is thinking about ways to solve it, such as a token system.

I suspect the "token" system could be useful. For every boss in a group dungeon instead of gear set you will get a token, so in the end you could use those token to get for example "Chest container" - that will give you random chest piece of the gear you are grinding. You would simply have better control of your reward and grinding time will decrees.

Why getting the tokens just to get a random piece of gear when turning them? It should allow us to select the gear with the enchant, type, trait and style we want. I may accept to get a random amount of those tokens upon completion of a dungeon. Let say the minimum and maximum amounts would be 10 and 20 respectively but the gear we get should be the one we want based on our preferences.

Kodrac

They'll just replace one grind with another. It's a balancing act which one is least annoying to paying customers.

kongkim

Bah. hate tokens systems.

But if they are going to make it. I really hope the make it good and not like some other games where there are like 45794357834 different types of tokens.
If it will always just end up in a token grind instead of a gear grind. Same S...

Rohamad_Ali

It's easier to grind tokens then wait for sharpened sword drops . There are still some sets to this day I have not gotten a sharpened sword for after 3 years .

bubbygink

Kodrac wrote: »

They'll just replace one grind with another. It's a balancing act which one is least annoying to paying customers.

While true there is a big difference between a token grind and an RNG grind. With a token grind you KNOW your hard work will pay off. After X amount of runs you will eventually get that item you desire. With RNG you could run Maelstrom 1,000 times and be no closer to getting a sharpened inferno staff than you were at 0 runs.

Even if, as some have suggested, tokens will have an RNG drop rate you still have a general idea of how long it will take. If you need 10 tokens to get a sharpened inferno staff and the drop rate for tokens is 20% then you know it will take about 50 runs. Sure, you could get unlucky and maybe it takes you 70 runs, or even 100. But the odds of even that happening are extremely low and is about worst case scenario. Even with an percent chance to drop token system you have a pretty good idea of how long it will take you to get your weapon and you can actually see your progress.

Danksta

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If anybody has been paying attention, we just got a huge token system. Master writs are absolutely a token system, but of course, there is RNG associated with how said tokens are acquired. The crown crates are also in fact a token system, but again, RNG is associated with acquiring said tokens.

I expect something similar at some point with gear. Admittedly, these RNG based token systems still can leave a bitter taste in your mouth, but they are better than nothing.

Undaunted keys are a token system also, and that's reason enough that we should temper our expectations.

Nestor

Wonder if this would mean no drops at all?

Reason, I don't hold the view that traits are all that important to the extent they ruin a build if they are not optimal. I prefer the Set Bonuses far more than the Traits. So, does this mean I have to do a Dungeon X number of times before I get any part of the set?

That is what concerns me. I can wear suboptimal traits, as long as I get the Set Bonus.

Draconerus

A token system has been something people have been asking for and devs have discussed between themselves and the users forever. It really needs to be added. The RNG is horrible.

bubbygink

Nestor wrote: »

Wonder if this would mean no drops at all?

Reason, I don't hold the view that traits are all that important to the extent they ruin a build if they are not optimal. I prefer the Set Bonuses far more than the Traits. So, does this mean I have to do a Dungeon X number of times before I get any part of the set?

That is what concerns me. I can wear suboptimal traits, as long as I get the Set Bonus.

Perhaps a solution would be to have a token drop every time a set piece would. Then you have a vendor at the end of the dungeon which sells the following:

• For one token - one random item from the dungeon (so equivalent to having just gotten the drops throughout)
• For three tokens - one random item from a particular set from the dungeon
• For 50 tokens - one customized armor piece from the dungeon (so you can pick trait, piece, etc.)
• For 150 tokens - once customized weapon piece from the dungeon

I'm just throwing those number out there as an idea. Seems like it would be like 20-25 runs then to get your perfectly traited weapon which seems fair to me. While taking maybe only 7 or 8 runs to get a perfectly traited armor piece. But it also gives you the option to essentially get the same random drops that currently exist or to just get a particular set.

One thing this doesn't contemplate is the differences in item drops from different bosses. It would uniform drops so no more skipping bosses who drop items you don't want.

King-Justin-Arisdale

TOKEN SYSTEM

Remag_Div

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Welcome to the token grind...

Sure, but implementing a token system is win-win for us.

Take vMA, if you're grinding for a sharpened destro staff and you're lucky enough to get one from loot, then great. For those who have ran vMA 500 times and still don't have it they can at least save up tokens and then acquire the destro staff that way.

The grind will still be very real, but at least we can grind KNOWING eventually we will get what we want at the end of the long road.

jeremiah911

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

It's easier to grind tokens then wait for sharpened sword drops . There are still some sets to this day I have not gotten a sharpened sword for after 3 years .

That's probably because you spend more time on these forums than actually playing the game! No slight intended; simply making an observation.

UrQuan

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If anybody has been paying attention, we just got a huge token system. Master writs are absolutely a token system, but of course, there is RNG associated with how said tokens are acquired. The crown crates are also in fact a token system, but again, RNG is associated with acquiring said tokens.

I expect something similar at some point with gear. Admittedly, these RNG based token systems still can leave a bitter taste in your mouth, but they are better than nothing.

The crown crates example is actually a pretty good one, and could be reasonably translated to the existing RNG systems (as much as I hate crown crates).

When you open an RNG crate/chest (whether it be an Undaunted chest, or a VMA chest, or whatever) it could drop a random item using the exact same system that currently exists, except that you'd have an option to either loot the random item you got or exchange it for a token (much like the way crown crate consumables work). If you exchange it for a token then you can exchange tokens for the item that you actually want, but it would cost more tokens to buy a specific item than the number of tokens you get by exchanging an RNG item for tokens.

So say you get a powered VMA lightning staff from completing VMA. It's not bad, but it's not the sharpened one you wanted. You can either take the staff you got, or exchange it for a single token. If you exchange it for a token you won't be able to get the staff you want yet, because it costs 3 or 4 or 5 tokens (or whatever number), but after a few more runs you'll be guaranteed to be able to get the sharpened staff you wanted (or you could get lucky and get it in a single run).

jakeedmundson

umagon wrote: »

runagate wrote: »

I can't attest to the veracity of the Google translation, but:

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

One of the information discussed in connection with Morrowind reporting is the fact that the team is well aware of how problematic the RNG system is and is thinking about ways to solve it, such as a token system.

Some players may think a token system is going to lower the acquisition time of desired items. However, it may not because zos uses a mostly award based retention system. If they change anything I doubt the acquisition times would be lower. They will most likely just obfuscate the new system so players are not aware there has been no or little change in desired item acquisition times.

I think they are only looking at rng because players are now aware that it is setup intentionally to waste their time. And zos hopes that the longer customers play the more they will spend on subscriptions, dlc, crown store items, and expansions.

I agree to a point...
You need to make people want to keep playing. But it's starting to have the adverse effect.... People are leaving because they ARENT gaining anything after X amount of runs.
If i could get the sharpened lightning staff i'm after... i would use it... enjoy it... try new builds with it. I wouldn't quit because now all of the sudden i'm bored with the game. I would have FUN using the item i found.