Is Nirnhoned really worthless as gear trait now?

Lyserus

I mean in pvp bascially everyone is on impen armor...If i use nirnhoned to increase flat damage wouldn't that be better than sharpen? Or is it really nerfed to the group to the point where its only use is to get 9 trait?

Lyserus

*to the ground

runagate

I think you should immediately switch to all nirnhoned armor and pvp.

Lyserus

runagate wrote: »

I think you should immediately switch to all nirnhoned armor and pvp.

I'm not talking about nirhoned armor..I'm talking about nirnhoned weapon (Everyone on impen -> Sharpen doesn't really work that well anymore -> Nirnhoned weapon increase flat out damage so impen is kinda useless against it) <-This is my logic, not sure if it's a correct one though

(Considering people are still using sharpen a lot I'm guess armor still need to be impen）

Taleof2Cities

You're right there isn't much use for it in gear.

For a trait the has whole quests about it and has an end of quest line reward ... you would think it would be more important in gear.

Lyserus

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

You're right there isn't much use for it in gear.

For a trait the has whole quests about it and has an end of quest line reward ... you would think it would be more important in gear.

aye....ZOS like to overreact when people complain about something and nerf it to the ground, yet turn blind eye to some other things that are also OP....well ZOS' logic, can't argue

IcyDeadPeople

Lyserus wrote: »

runagate wrote: »

I think you should immediately switch to all nirnhoned armor and pvp.

I'm not talking about nirhoned armor..I'm talking about nirnhoned weapon (Everyone on impen -> Sharpen doesn't really work that well anymore -> Nirnhoned weapon increase flat out damage so impen is kinda useless against it) <-This is my logic, not sure if it's a correct one though

(Considering people are still using sharpen a lot I'm guess armor still need to be impen）

Impen reduces damage from crits, not penetration.

If you are attacking someone in heavy armor with a certain amount of spell/physical resistance, then sharpened would result in higher damage.

If you are attacking someone with spell/phys resistance below that point, then nirnhoned would result in higher damage.

SFDB

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

You're right there isn't much use for it in gear.

For a trait the has whole quests about it and has an end of quest line reward ... you would think it would be more important in gear.

Yeah, unfortunately nirn's only effect on the game for a while now is to make life complicated for crafters.

Lyserus

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

runagate wrote: »

I think you should immediately switch to all nirnhoned armor and pvp.

I'm not talking about nirhoned armor..I'm talking about nirnhoned weapon (Everyone on impen -> Sharpen doesn't really work that well anymore -> Nirnhoned weapon increase flat out damage so impen is kinda useless against it) <-This is my logic, not sure if it's a correct one though

(Considering people are still using sharpen a lot I'm guess armor still need to be impen）

Impen reduces damage from crits, not penetration.

If you are attacking someone in heavy armor with a certain amount of spell/physical resistance, then sharpened would result in higher damage.

If you are attacking someone with spell/phys resistance below that point, then nirnhoned would result in higher damage.

hmmm let me try to understand....

so you are saying in current pvp bascially only sharpen weapon have a chance to kill tanks, and nirnhoned have better chance against dps and healer but because it can't kill tanks so it is considered less satisfying?

Ihatenightblades

Lyserus wrote: »

I mean in pvp bascially everyone is on impen armor...If i use nirnhoned to increase flat damage wouldn't that be better than sharpen? Or is it really nerfed to the group to the point where its only use is to get 9 trait?

Ur saying nirmhoned is better then impen but then say ur talking about weapons only? Which is it?

#1 Sharpened is better then nirn
#2 impen is better then nirn on armor.

5000 penetration is just mandatory for a 2 hand weapon or one hand weapon ( 2500 )

Its why people like myself farm religiously for impen armor and sharpened weapons

Lyserus

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

I mean in pvp bascially everyone is on impen armor...If i use nirnhoned to increase flat damage wouldn't that be better than sharpen? Or is it really nerfed to the group to the point where its only use is to get 9 trait?

Ur saying nirmhoned is better then impen but then say ur talking about weapons only? Which is it?

#1 Sharpened is better then nirn
#2 impen is better then nirn on armor.

5000 penetration is just mandatory for a 2 hand weapon or one hand weapon ( 2500 )

Its why people like myself farm religiously for impen armor and sharpened weapons

hope both sharpen and impen get their nerf next patch

IcyDeadPeople

Lyserus wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

runagate wrote: »

I think you should immediately switch to all nirnhoned armor and pvp.

I'm not talking about nirhoned armor..I'm talking about nirnhoned weapon (Everyone on impen -> Sharpen doesn't really work that well anymore -> Nirnhoned weapon increase flat out damage so impen is kinda useless against it) <-This is my logic, not sure if it's a correct one though

(Considering people are still using sharpen a lot I'm guess armor still need to be impen）

Impen reduces damage from crits, not penetration.

If you are attacking someone in heavy armor with a certain amount of spell/physical resistance, then sharpened would result in higher damage.

If you are attacking someone with spell/phys resistance below that point, then nirnhoned would result in higher damage.

hmmm let me try to understand....

so you are saying in current pvp bascially only sharpen weapon have a chance to kill tanks, and nirnhoned have better chance against dps and healer but because it can't kill tanks so it is considered less satisfying?

Sort of. There is some number X phys/spell resistance. If the target is below that number, then nirnhoned weapon will do more damage. No idea what the number is, but I'm sure someone has looked into this before.

Danksta

Nirnhoned is best for Onslaught builds (Onslaught ignores all armor so sharpened is useless), but in just about any other scenario sharpened is better.

GrigorijMalahevich

Against light armor (low resistance) and shields pure damage is better, against everyone else sharp is king.

Hope that ZoS change nirn weapons back to how they were BiS before Dark Brotherhood. It doesn't make sense for such a hard to get trait to be worse than standard trait.

GawdSB

Most traits are useless.

jedtb16_ESO

some of the master writs call for nine trait stuff...

Molydeus

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

You're right there isn't much use for it in gear.

For a trait the has whole quests about it and has an end of quest line reward ... you would think it would be more important in gear.

The unfortunate thing now is that ZOS has shoehorned players into using particular traits and ignored the uselessness of the others for so long that people would go completely nuts if the traits were rebalanced.

IcyDeadPeople

Molydeus wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

You're right there isn't much use for it in gear.

For a trait the has whole quests about it and has an end of quest line reward ... you would think it would be more important in gear.

The unfortunate thing now is that ZOS has shoehorned players into using particular traits and ignored the uselessness of the others for so long that people would go completely nuts if the traits were rebalanced.

I suspect most would welcome a slight buff to nirnhoned.

Bam_Bam

Danksta wrote: »

Nirnhoned is best for Onslaught builds (Onslaught ignores all armor so sharpened is useless), but in just about any other scenario sharpened is better.

Onslaught build?

DannyLV702

Danksta wrote: »

Nirnhoned is best for Onslaught builds (Onslaught ignores all armor so sharpened is useless), but in just about any other scenario sharpened is better.

Sounds like a fun gank build actually

DannyLV702

Baranthus wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Nirnhoned is best for Onslaught builds (Onslaught ignores all armor so sharpened is useless), but in just about any other scenario sharpened is better.

Onslaught build?

For a ganker more than likely. If you're one shotting people like you're supposed to, them you'll never have a use for sharpened. And your ultimate will almost always be up. Ugh don't want to have to farm for a nirnhoned greatsword now

Sweetpea704

For a tank, I still use a few pieces to get to the resistance cap. Defending or Decisive may be better for a tank now, however, for the weapons.

Danksta

Baranthus wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Nirnhoned is best for Onslaught builds (Onslaught ignores all armor so sharpened is useless), but in just about any other scenario sharpened is better.

Onslaught build?

@Baranthus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gt96TD_S9E

Not gonna lie, it's dirty af! A true one-shot build.

Molydeus

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Molydeus wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

You're right there isn't much use for it in gear.

For a trait the has whole quests about it and has an end of quest line reward ... you would think it would be more important in gear.

The unfortunate thing now is that ZOS has shoehorned players into using particular traits and ignored the uselessness of the others for so long that people would go completely nuts if the traits were rebalanced.

I suspect most would welcome a slight buff to nirnhoned.

Sure, but what about the people who grinded for months to get their Sharpened weapons? If Nirnhoned were suddenly better they'd go insane.

maboleth

I'd seriously want to see some reworked Heavy armour bonuses AND penalties for all classes that abuse its usage (for example, sorces and nightblades shouldn't not be using metal-grade heavy armour, it's against their class, their speed, agility, movement etc. ). Also would like to see slight buffing of the light armour. Then, I think, sharpened wouldn't be the most sought weapon trait.

Danksta

Molydeus wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Molydeus wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

You're right there isn't much use for it in gear.

For a trait the has whole quests about it and has an end of quest line reward ... you would think it would be more important in gear.

The unfortunate thing now is that ZOS has shoehorned players into using particular traits and ignored the uselessness of the others for so long that people would go completely nuts if the traits were rebalanced.

I suspect most would welcome a slight buff to nirnhoned.

Sure, but what about the people who grinded for months to get their Sharpened weapons? If Nirnhoned were suddenly better they'd go insane.

I wouldn't. I've kept the vMA weapons I have that I think the traits could end up being changed to be useful someday and dungeon drops don't drop in nirnhoned. It would actually indirectly buff crafted sets.

Strider_Roshin

Yeah nirnhoned became useless. Both the armor trait, and the weapon trait need a buff in order to be an option worth considering.

For one let me state that nirnhoned on armor would only be considered for PvP since PvE is entirely focused on damage output. Now specificity should be rewarded so Impen should remain as it; which is roughly 3.5% mitigation for a gold impen piece. However, with that said the damage mitigation provided from nirnhoned needs to be higher than <0.5%. Now a reasonable amount of mitigation should be around 1.5% (buff reinforced if necessary in order for it to provide higher mitigation when used on heavy; such as 2% mitigation).

Now when it comes to weapons; sharpened increases your damage output by 8%; however it's specific to enemies not using a damage shield. Therefore, the amount of extra weapon damage nirnhoned provides should be enough to increase your damage output by 5%. Currently it increases the value of your weapon's tooltip damage value by a whopping 11%. Meaning using this trait will provide you an additional 172 weapon damage if used on a greatsword.

This trait (among others) really needs some adjustment.

IcyDeadPeople

Molydeus wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Molydeus wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

You're right there isn't much use for it in gear.

For a trait the has whole quests about it and has an end of quest line reward ... you would think it would be more important in gear.

The unfortunate thing now is that ZOS has shoehorned players into using particular traits and ignored the uselessness of the others for so long that people would go completely nuts if the traits were rebalanced.

I suspect most would welcome a slight buff to nirnhoned.

Sure, but what about the people who grinded for months to get their Sharpened weapons? If Nirnhoned were suddenly better they'd go insane.

Why does any one trait have to be the best? It's already the case that Nirnhoned is better in certain situations while sharpened is better in majority of others.

A slight buff to nirnhoned would make it better for example at a lower armor threshold, while sharpened would still be better vs enemies with high resistances.

And buffing precise, powered, charged, infused and decisive a bit would make these more useful as well. Coming up with build ideas is a lot more fun when there are numerous viable options instead of just one or two.

Lyserus

Molydeus wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Molydeus wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

You're right there isn't much use for it in gear.

For a trait the has whole quests about it and has an end of quest line reward ... you would think it would be more important in gear.

The unfortunate thing now is that ZOS has shoehorned players into using particular traits and ignored the uselessness of the others for so long that people would go completely nuts if the traits were rebalanced.

I suspect most would welcome a slight buff to nirnhoned.

Sure, but what about the people who grinded for months to get their Sharpened weapons? If Nirnhoned were suddenly better they'd go insane.

That's not a proper argument. Just because they spend many month on getting that gear doesn't mean this shouldn't be balanced because of their effort.

A more balanced trait system will also reduce the amount of whining people about RNG because when all traits are viable options they don't have to spend that long time anymore

Molydeus

Guys, I'm not arguing for or against, I'm just making commentary. Some people would lose their minds if their hundreds of hours of grinding for a particular item was suddenly not BiS anymore, and they had to begin the grind all over again. They will need to be very careful with rebalancing.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Nirnhoned has two uses. Research and Fighting a shield stacking sorc.

The heavy armor Meta and the recent crit nerf has put Sharp even further in front of the rest of the pack.