"One Tamriel"...a bold, radical conception?

Seraphayel

Auros wrote: »

Becoming weaker is definitely a side effect from people, who forget to craft on-level gear.

It has not only to do with gear, that's the point. You could have very good gear with level 40 and you'd still be weaker than a 10s with bad gear.

Auros

@Seraphayel I disagree. And I noticed quite negative posts about the game from you? Maybe you need a change.

Rene_Valionus

One Tamriel for me personally was the best thing that could happen to ESO. I recall when i started playing just a few months after the game went b2p and stopped after several months due to boredom.. and what caused that boredom? over-leveling... because i tend to do every single quest in every zone i went to, i quickly over-leveled and it impacted future areas and their quests which made the enemies in then areas mundane to deal with. By end game sure the then veteran rank system kept me occupied but only for a while.

Now upon returning to the game just a few weeks ago and discovering the One Tamriel update i felt a huge load was off my chest, gone were the days where i feared "the next area is just going to be a cake-walk where i 1 to 2 hit generic enemies" because i'm way above the level of the enemies for said zone. Quest scaling also makes it that i get to do quests at my leisure, no more "i have to do this first or i'l out level it and i'l not make much use of the reward item"

So yeah for me as it is now i'm much more into the game as i was before.

Seraphayel

Auros wrote: »

And I noticed quite negative posts about the game from you? Maybe you need a change.

lol what?

________

Auros wrote: »

I disagree.

And you can disagree, it's a fact. I tested it all by myself not long ago. Level 40 Dragon Knight in level 40 blue equip vs. level 15 Templar in green equip from level 9-14 with less skill points and passives - Wall of Elements is still ticking higher on the level 15 Templar than on the level 40 DK. The difference is pretty noticeable.

Auros

@Seraphayel The discussions you have started (once I click on your avatar) look like this:


Why is every Magicka DPS literally the same?

Will we see Spellcrafting in Q2/18 as part of Chapter II or maybe 2017?

Am I getting weaker with every new level?

Is there a big, active PvP playerbase on Xbox EU?

Player behaviour that drives you crazy ...

I think you are quire bored and not-satisfied with the product.

Seraphayel

It's always great to judge a book by its cover. I actually suggest you to read not only thread titles.

Auros wrote: »

I think you are quire bored and not-satisfied with the product.

And I think you don't know what you're talking about.

Auros

@Seraphayel I read them ... that's why I keep on noticing when you comment most discussions with negative opinions of the game. Maybe that is the reason no one reads them anymore, and I think of doing the same.

Seraphayel

Auros wrote: »

@Seraphayel I read them ... that's why I keep on noticing when you comment most discussions with negative opinions of the game. Maybe that is the reason no one reads them anymore, and I think of doing the same.

Well, I'd appreciate if you stop reading my comments and replying to them.

Auros

@Seraphayel deal.

cjthibs

You'll only get weaker if you don't know how to use the skills that are made available as you level.

The stats do indeed shrink, but if you are slotting skills to manage those resources, and putting skills into passives, you'll be getting exponentially stronger.

Stop obsessing over numbers, and get creative with your loadouts.

Anyway, there is a simple solution to this question.
Take a level 10, and go to a non-CP Cyrodiil campaign. Tell me how much stronger you feel than the level 50's then.

Auros

I saw waves of CP1000+ running in panic from a lvl 10 in an 1vX horror stream ... the other day. Scary!!

... and he was in light armor!!

cjthibs

Auros wrote: »

I saw waves of CP1000+ running in panic from a lvl 10 in an 1vX horror stream ... the other day. Scary!!

Link it?
I'd rather like to see that.

Auros

@cjthibs I agree with what you wrote and was sarcastic.

Smile people!! too serious ...

cjthibs

Auros wrote: »

@cjthibs I agree with what you wrote and was sarcastic.

Smile people!! too serious ...

Ha. Fair enough. Very hard to tell sometimes.

Seraphayel

cjthibs wrote: »

You'll only get weaker if you don't know how to use the skills that are made available as you level.
Anyway, there is a simple solution to this question.
Take a level 10, and go to a non-CP Cyrodiil campaign. Tell me how much stronger you feel than the level 50's then.

Where did I talk about PvP?

And no, you get even weaker when you use all the new skills you've available, even if you invest points in passives that should increase your damage output. You're still doing less damage than a player in lower levels. I'm not talking about level 50 and I'm not talking about PvP, I'm talking about the leveling experience from 1-49 after One Tamriel. If you don't believe me, try it, pretty easy to do so.

cjthibs

Seraphayel wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

You'll only get weaker if you don't know how to use the skills that are made available as you level.
Anyway, there is a simple solution to this question.
Take a level 10, and go to a non-CP Cyrodiil campaign. Tell me how much stronger you feel than the level 50's then.

Where did I talk about PvP?

And no, you get even weaker when you use all the new skills you've available, even if you invest points in passives that should increase your damage output. You're still doing less damage than a player in lower levels. I'm not talking about level 50 and I'm not talking about PvP, I'm talking about the leveling experience from 1-49 after One Tamriel. If you don't believe me, try it, pretty easy to do so.

You didn't. But the easiest way to compare actual effectiveness between levels would be PvP.
I even specifically mentioned non-CP, because that will eliminate those differences.

If you actually want to know how effective you are vs. someone at max level, that would be the way to do it.

Or get some of your higher-level friends to put on gear that's equivalent to yours and have a go that way.

The point that myself and many others have been trying to make is that the numbers alone don't tell the story.

zaria

Seraphayel wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

You'll only get weaker if you don't know how to use the skills that are made available as you level.
Anyway, there is a simple solution to this question.
Take a level 10, and go to a non-CP Cyrodiil campaign. Tell me how much stronger you feel than the level 50's then.

Where did I talk about PvP?

And no, you get even weaker when you use all the new skills you've available, even if you invest points in passives that should increase your damage output. You're still doing less damage than a player in lower levels. I'm not talking about level 50 and I'm not talking about PvP, I'm talking about the leveling experience from 1-49 after One Tamriel. If you don't believe me, try it, pretty easy to do so.

I think you are right in that difficulty increases at the last part. Guess the battle scaling is linear, on the other hand your strength don't increase so fast from 40-50, as you have most of your skills and your bars are full.

Danikat

Seraphayel wrote: »

One Tamriel is great but has one major letdown: the story. ESO was developed in mind that you choose one faction and play this faction. That's how the story is made and developed throughout the zones. Veteran Levels (being able to see the other factions) and One Tamriel totally destroy this approach and are very counter-productive from a lore standpoint. During Veteran Zones you somehow explained it through Cadwell's quests but it was still a major immersion-breaker, with One Tamriel it's only gotten worse.

It would make sense if we did not start the game in a default faction, say we don't pledge allegiance to any of the alliances in PvE but play all three of them somehow as an "outsider", the "neutral hero" (that would even make more sense when it comes to the last bits of the story starting the Coldharbour questline). We only need to choose and keep the chosen alliance when doing PvP. This would help solving the lore issues of killing Covenant soldiers in Aldmeri zones although you chose Covenant as your alliance etc.

Another letdown of 1T is the scaling. It's not very well made that you are super powerful in lower levels and constantly get weaker and weaker the higher you level up. Being invincible from 10-20 but being super squishy (although you have more skills and better equip) from 30-40 is super awkward.

I don't understand how you can say One Tamriel has "totally destroyed" the story based approach when it hasn't changed at all.

When you create a new character you still have to choose an Alliance to join and you still start in their zone (they even moved the starting point back to the islands so the initial quests actually make sense again) doing the same quests, in the same order. The game actively encourages you to stay in your Alliance and go through the maps in the original intended order by presenting the quests to you that way. At no point are you ever told to go to another Alliance until you reach Cadwell's Silver and Gold.

The only difference is that if you're aware of the changes they made you know that you have the option to do things differently. But whether you do or not is entirely up to you.

The story is very important to me, so the majority of my characters are still going through it in order just like before One Tamriel. But I really like that it's my choice. If my friend asks for someone to help out I don't have to tell them I can't help because I don't have a character at the right level in that alliance. I can choose to put my immersion on hold briefly, hop onto my main character (or whichever is appropriate, but it's usually my main) and help them out. And I can go around collecting skyshards on my crafter (where the order of quests doesn't matter because he's never going to do the majority of them) without having to level up first.

And for people who think visiting other alliances at all, ever is lore-breaking One Tamriel should be a vast improvement. Before your choices were to go and do the other Alliances, grind dungeons and PvP or be stuck unable to level up. The most common comment I heard from veteran level players when this was launched was "My characters can finally go home!"

(For what it's worth I agree that it would have been better to allow everyone to start neutral and then only pick an alliance to join if you go to do PvP. But for whatever reason it seems to be a common problem in MMO design that the developers over-estimate the popularity of PvP - designing games around the assumption that everyone will be mainly interested in PvP and PvE is just a training ground to let you level up and prepare for it when in reality it seems dedicated PvPers are a minority. But changing that now would require a huge amount of work - they'd have to not only change the mechanics but re-write most of the story and quests.)

BlackSparrow

I'll agree that I was skeptical when they first announced One Tamriel. Level scaling is very easy to get wrong... it's something I generally hate in games, and even certain TES games (*cough*Oblivion*cough*) have flubbed it so hard that I ran mods to fix it.

But... I think One Tamriel pretty much nailed it. Yes, life for my stamblade main became much harder, since I couldn't rely on leveling up to beat the hard bosses... but that was resolved by adjusting my strategy with her and, really, learning to play her correctly. The early level buffs are a necessary evil that you get used to pretty quickly... and the difference between the overall effectiveness of my level 15 alts and my CP 180 main is still pretty stark. There is progression... it's just more subtle than watching the numbers go up.

Danikat wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

One Tamriel is great but has one major letdown: the story. ESO was developed in mind that you choose one faction and play this faction. That's how the story is made and developed throughout the zones. Veteran Levels (being able to see the other factions) and One Tamriel totally destroy this approach and are very counter-productive from a lore standpoint. During Veteran Zones you somehow explained it through Cadwell's quests but it was still a major immersion-breaker, with One Tamriel it's only gotten worse.

It would make sense if we did not start the game in a default faction, say we don't pledge allegiance to any of the alliances in PvE but play all three of them somehow as an "outsider", the "neutral hero" (that would even make more sense when it comes to the last bits of the story starting the Coldharbour questline). We only need to choose and keep the chosen alliance when doing PvP. This would help solving the lore issues of killing Covenant soldiers in Aldmeri zones although you chose Covenant as your alliance etc.

Another letdown of 1T is the scaling. It's not very well made that you are super powerful in lower levels and constantly get weaker and weaker the higher you level up. Being invincible from 10-20 but being super squishy (although you have more skills and better equip) from 30-40 is super awkward.

I don't understand how you can say One Tamriel has "totally destroyed" the story based approach when it hasn't changed at all.

When you create a new character you still have to choose an Alliance to join and you still start in their zone (they even moved the starting point back to the islands so the initial quests actually make sense again) doing the same quests, in the same order. The game actively encourages you to stay in your Alliance and go through the maps in the original intended order by presenting the quests to you that way. At no point are you ever told to go to another Alliance until you reach Cadwell's Silver and Gold.

The only difference is that if you're aware of the changes they made you know that you have the option to do things differently. But whether you do or not is entirely up to you.

The story is very important to me, so the majority of my characters are still going through it in order just like before One Tamriel. But I really like that it's my choice. If my friend asks for someone to help out I don't have to tell them I can't help because I don't have a character at the right level in that alliance. I can choose to put my immersion on hold briefly, hop onto my main character (or whichever is appropriate, but it's usually my main) and help them out. And I can go around collecting skyshards on my crafter (where the order of quests doesn't matter because he's never going to do the majority of them) without having to level up first.

And for people who think visiting other alliances at all, ever is lore-breaking One Tamriel should be a vast improvement. Before your choices were to go and do the other Alliances, grind dungeons and PvP or be stuck unable to level up. The most common comment I heard from veteran level players when this was launched was "My characters can finally go home!"

I agree with this so much.

I'm also heavily story-based. So, even after One Tamriel, most of my characters are going through the story in a linear fashion. However I have two exceptions: my thief and my assassin. And the thing is... those deviations are still story-based.

My assassin has completed the Pact storyline. She's hailed as the Pact Hero and the savior of Tamriel... an accolade she's decidedly uncomfortable with, but defeating Molag Bal got her her soul back, so it's not like she had much choice in the matter. Now, however, she couldn't care less about playing the hero and helping the commonfolk in DC or AD... so instead, she uses her status as a "hero" to gain access to places and people for the purposes of assassination. She can be seen sneaking across the countryside of all three alliances, fulfilling contracts like the Silencer she is. Let the heroics go to the heroes, she figures.

My thief will occasionally do favors for Razum'dar, but both of them know her loyalties lie with the Thieves Guild. She travels from city to city, and will usually do quests there to endear herself to the locals... but slog through the countryside? Pfffft. So, her story relies on hopping from city to city, and she's known to hop a ship to a different alliance when she's tipped off the guard one too many times... and then the cycle starts all over again in that alliance.

Neither of these playstyles could have been done before One Tamriel. If anything, One Tamriel allowed me to become even more immersed in the world and the stories my characters bring to it.

The bottom line is that those who care about story will follow it anyway. Those who don't... or who see a different story than the rigidly scripted one... can do whatever makes them happy. Adding more options does not remove or invalidate the ones already there.

SunfireKnight86

There is zero question that One Tamriel is better. Before there was no challenge in any area and no reason to ever explore once you hit the cap. (Besides shard, books, and achievement farming) Now it isn't "hard" per say, but the whole game world is used again, and no zone feels pointless or underpowered.

CP skewers this for a lot of us too. My SO played and they had troubled with things I can one shot all day long. It's about perspective.