broken poll - 'transformed'
StackonClown
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broken poll - tool saved before listing all poll options, was supposed to be a poll about Zenny's responses (or lack thereof) to top player issues - Sorryz for the confusion
edit - 'Sub' stands for subway it seems ...
Edited by StackonClown on February 20, 2017 11:21AM edit - 'Sub' stands for subway it seems ...
broken poll - 'transformed' 31 votes
A disgrace! Woefully under-delivering on sorting out top issues and making a mockery of the player base
12%
4 votes
Grossly unsatisfactory. Clearly focused on profits and ignoring needs of 'locked in' existing player base
6%
2 votes
Sub-
80%
25 votes
0
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Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I could go for a sub sandwich right now."If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."5 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I could go for a sub sandwich right now.
Agreed, I voted the same.
Well looks like we can look forward to another "I am angry about the game and want to see how many people agree with my rant to reinforce my views" poll soon.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."6 -
Narvuntien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I am not a subscriber or a believer in any of those poll answers.
Option 1: I think the lag really needs to be sorted out ASAP. But I am not sure what other top issues there are?
Option 2: Conspiracy theroy of choice for people that want the game to be all about them and not about growing the game and helping new players. And that don't care about things that don't invovle being the best gamer ever, like housing and costumes.
Option 3: I am not a big fan of the subscription model, it is outdated, the games industry has moved on. The major issue of the subscription option is that it is very commital, you have to get your monies worth every month. It forces you to commit yourself to a long term investment when you don't know what the future holds for you and your enjoyment of the game. It is a large investiment of time for a new player that doesn't know if they will like the game. And it can be an issue for older players as well. What if a great new single player game came out and you want to take a break and play that for a month or two and come back later. Or you end up in a situation like me... Unemployed, I can spend that one off $30 to play the game.. but I can't lock myself into a regular subscription if I don't have income to sustain it.
Edited by Narvuntien on February 20, 2017 8:58AM0 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭
Agreed, I voted the same.
Well looks like we can look forward to another "I am angry about the game and want to see how many people agree with my rant to reinforce my views" poll soon.
lol maybe i need a subway too..
I love the game.. i just want to keep Zenny on their toes
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Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
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Agreed, I voted the same.
Well looks like we can look forward to another "I am angry about the game and want to see how many people agree with my rant to reinforce my views" poll soon.
Good thing I'm prepared.
"If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."1 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭StackonClown wrote: »
lol maybe i need a subway too..
I love the game.. i just want to keep Zenny on their toes
@StackonClown you need clear well structured polite criticism with showing of your workings. Rage polls won't do anything but put them on the defensive.
Check this thread I posted a few years ago: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/98564/how-to-make-a-developer-listen-to-you
It was written by an EVE Online Dev and is a great insight into how developers feel and engage threads on forums.
*edit spelling
Edited by Turelus on February 20, 2017 9:03AM@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."0 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭
@StackonClown you need clear well structured polite criticism with showing of your workings. Rage polls won't do anything but put them on the defensive.
Check this thread I posted a few years ago: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/98564/how-to-make-a-developer-listen-to-you
It was written by an EVE Online Dev and is a great insight into how developers feel and engage threads on forums.
*edit spelling
Yes - I agree.. And there was more text to the poll than 'to be deleted'.. but I didn't realise that polls are uneditable (makes sense), and it got saved half way through typing it up - noobsville mistake
In many of my posts I try to put forward my case with examples or comparisons... Zenny is just a money making machine.. I think I've been polite, but maybe a bit 'serious' at times... Many things go unaddressed for weeks, months, or indefinitely...Edited by StackonClown on February 20, 2017 9:09AM0 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭StackonClown wrote: »
Yes - I agree.. And there was more text to the poll than 'to be deleted'.. but I didn't realise that polls are uneditable (makes sense), and it got saved half way through typing it up - noobsville mistake
In many of my posts I try to put forward my case with examples or comparisons... Zenny is just a money making machine.. I think I've been polite, but maybe a bit 'serious' at times... Many things go unaddressed for weeks, months, or indefinitely...
This is pretty common within this genre of game sadly. I don't think I have played an MMO yet where issues have always been addressed in a timely manner.
EVE Online / CCP Games managed to do an okay job by having teams dedicated to fixing issues but they also have the advantage of a downtime every single day which they can throw a patch in if needed.
Generally (and sadly) issues are weighed against if it's worth more to the big money wigs to fix issues or make more content and get more people in to get money.
Then again I am cynical about the entire games industry.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."0 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭Lol - one of the top issues I was going to list in the poll was:
- poorly handled maintenance timing and communication
and guess what ????
servers just went down and the 'maintenance info' was updated 5 minutes before - couldn't think of a more timely example.
And do we know when it will be back - noooooo of course not ... ever heard of a 'planned maintenance window'?
>>> i.e. Planned & Communicated Start *AND* End times. <<<
All serious corporations demand them!
Imagine a bank said: 'ok - maintenance to start at 21:00 hours, back whenever we are done... bye-yeeeee'.
Would this be tolerated?
But it seems Zenny has conditioned the player base to simply accept that 'it will be back when its back' !
We even end up with the usual 'ZeniFanboi's' telling people to go for a walk or get a life etc.. That's not the point.
If Zenny wants 17 hours for maintenance - fine.. Just TELL us how long you going to take so we can PLAN around it!!
Why ?? This is a multi- billion $$$ corporation...
Surely the 'space cadets' who do the maintenance, can PLAN how long the maintenance will take?
Of coooourse they can!!! - they simply choose not to and players simply tolerate this.
Why are we forced to tolerate this pathetic approach to maintenance timing ?
** small editsEdited by StackonClown on February 20, 2017 9:25AM0 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭StackonClown wrote: »
I knew this 'fail' broken poll would bring in the comments anyway... hehe
btw - is that like Fengrush's brother ?Edited by StackonClown on February 20, 2017 9:24AM0 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
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Done on Mondays during a time most of the population isn't playing. It's work hours in the EU and sleeping hours in the US. Yes AU players get shafted with this but they have to choose a time and the one they chose interupts the fewest players.StackonClown wrote: »Lol - one of the top issues I was going to list in the poll was:
poorly handled maintenance timing and communication
servers just went down and the 'maintenance info' was updated 5 minutes before - couldn't think of a more timely example.
Most who have played a while know it's every Monday for either patches or general maintaince and work around it.
Start times are planned, and they're in banners on the forums generally, again most people by now already know these are on Monday's at 09:00 GMT.StackonClown wrote: »And do we know when it will be back - noooooo of course not ... ever heard of a 'planned maintenance window'?
>>> i.e. Planned & Communicated Start *AND* End times. <<<
Generally companies don't announce up times because it's just asking for abuse. Patches go wrong (a lot) and when they do get delays people kick off because they were "promised" the game would be back up again at X time.
Because this is how almost every MMO handles it, those who are used to the genre understand this how it works.StackonClown wrote: »But it seems Zenny has conditioned the player base to simply accept that 'it will be back when its back' !
I guess I am a fanboy because I fail to understand how someone can't follow Twitter* and just do something else until they see the tweet saying servers are online.StackonClown wrote: »We even end up with the usual 'ZeniFanboi's' telling people to go for a walk or get a life etc.. That's not the point.
If Zenny wants 17 hours for maintenance - fine.. Just TELL us how long you going to take so we can PLAN around it!!
* You can sign up, set your twitter to send free (at least with UK networks) text messages to your phone every time a specific account tweets. You can literally have an SMS sent to your phone telling you when the servers are online this way.
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."0 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭Done on Mondays during a time most of the population isn't playing. It's work hours in the EU and sleeping hours in the US. Yes AU players get shafted with this but they have to choose a time and the one they chose interupts the fewest players.
Most who have played a while know it's every Monday for either patches or general maintaince and work around it.
Start times are planned, and they're in banners on the forums generally, again most people by now already know these are on Monday's at 09:00 GMT.
Generally companies don't announce up times because it's just asking for abuse. Patches go wrong (a lot) and when they do get delays people kick off because they were "promised" the game would be back up again at X time.
Because this is how almost every MMO handles it, those who are used to the genre understand this how it works.
I guess I am a fanboy because I fail to understand how someone can't follow Twitter* and just do something else until they see the tweet saying servers are online.
* You can sign up, set your twitter to send free (at least with UK networks) text messages to your phone every time a specific account tweets. You can literally have an SMS sent to your phone telling you when the servers are online this way.
tbh - I have something to do now anyway and wasn't planning to play further.. I'm in aus, maybe you also. I am new to MMO's, but again if this is how MMOs 'do it', why should it be tolerated nevertheless?
Yes I know the start time , this has been like this for a while, 8PM AESDT, 9GMT - I'm talking about a planned **end time**
Lots and lots of organisations give end times for maintenance. A bank is a classic example - their 'player base' would not tolerate undeclared end times. Ok, if they dont meet them, they get 'abuse' - next time, dont get delayed.
I just think we tolerate things which we don't need to, because of 'circular reasoning' such as all MMOs do this so we should tolerate this incompetence also.
I'ts not about following a twitter feed. I'ts about planning. I think you get it. It's not such a big deal in the scheme of things, but I feel we cave in too easily to Zenny's approach to a lot of things...
Again, we are talking about a company backed by a multi billion dollar parent company.. they can afford to do better. This is not 2 guys in a garage 'doing the best they can'..
Edited by StackonClown on February 20, 2017 9:44AM0 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭Example!
" We’re upgrading mickeyBank & mouseBank app (incl. Cardless Cash) tonight.
We’ll be unavailable from 11.50pm–>>>>>>>>7.30am<<<<<<<< AEDT
h-tee-tee-p:///www.whichbank.com.au/update "
I guess you can look up 'which bank' ?
Says it all!Edited by StackonClown on February 20, 2017 9:48AM0 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭Why do some players feel they need to 'justify' these patronising sub-par practices by Zenny?
I thought the USA was famed for amazing customer service, and I agree with this especially in the retail sector..
But MMO's seem to thumb their noses at the 'captive audience' *paying* player base.
As someone said recently: 'This is a dumb deal!'Edited by StackonClown on February 20, 2017 9:56AM0 -
Duiwel✭✭✭✭✭
✭StackonClown wrote: »I thought the USA was famed for amazing customer service, and I agree with this especially in the retail sector..
This has to be sarcasm...
Delta airlines, AT&T, American Airlines & United Airlines just to name a few.
This reply isn't aimed towards ZOS, it's just to reply to Stackon's statement @Duiwel:Join ORDER OF SITHIS We're recruiting! PC EU"Dear Brother. I do not spread rumours. I create them..."0 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭another bank example (from uk this time) - of declared end time for service outages:
ClayBarks UK
"We’ll be performing routine maintenance tonight and some services will be offline between ***midnight and 6am***. Our online banking and apps will be unavailable during this period"
How hard is it Zenny ???
Please stop treating us like fools and provide end times for your outages0 -
ItsMeToo✭✭✭✭✭Get back to work.FYI - There is no such thing as 'night capping' in a world wide MMO.FYI - There was no paid Beta. When they launched the game the Beta was over, even if you don't think it was.FYI - It's B2P not F2P. There is a difference.FYI - It doesn't take any player skill to mash keys or buttons in this game. The ones that stay alive longer have the better internet connection and speed.FYI - The game is not broken, it still works. It just has 'bugs' that need to be fixed.Balance is a "Bad" thing.
Example: There were hundreds of Jedi and only two Sith in Star Wars. The Jedi wanted, "Balance in the Force" and they got it. Now there are only two Jedi and two Sith.
Balance is a "Bad" thing.Is the glass half full or half empty?
I say, "Get a smaller glass."0 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭
This has to be sarcasm...
Delta airlines, AT&T, American Airlines & United Airlines just to name a few.
This reply isn't aimed towards ZOS, it's just to reply to Stackon's statement
Well thats what I am told ... And when I did visit the US (Pac northwest), I did find the customer service to be fantastic.. but that was more than 10 years ago.
But if it has gotten worse, do we simply put up since its gotten poor elsewhere ?0 -
ItsMeToo✭✭✭✭✭I want a pizza.FYI - There is no such thing as 'night capping' in a world wide MMO.FYI - There was no paid Beta. When they launched the game the Beta was over, even if you don't think it was.FYI - It's B2P not F2P. There is a difference.FYI - It doesn't take any player skill to mash keys or buttons in this game. The ones that stay alive longer have the better internet connection and speed.FYI - The game is not broken, it still works. It just has 'bugs' that need to be fixed.Balance is a "Bad" thing.
Example: There were hundreds of Jedi and only two Sith in Star Wars. The Jedi wanted, "Balance in the Force" and they got it. Now there are only two Jedi and two Sith.
Balance is a "Bad" thing.Is the glass half full or half empty?
I say, "Get a smaller glass."0 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭As much as I tried to be serious with the original 'broken poll' about Zenny's handling of top issues, people still voted and what was meant to be something like 'sub-par', got cut off at 'sub'.... lol
Subway won the poll after all Edited by StackonClown on February 20, 2017 10:17AM0 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭
What's wrong with a 'reply aimed towards ZOS'.. do we need to put a disclaimer now for fear of getting in ZOS's 'bad books'..
wow, just wow.Edited by StackonClown on February 20, 2017 10:22AM0 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You can't compare a bank to an MMO game though, they're doing different things with their services whilst offline.
Gaming patches can and do go wrong (I am sure bank databases do as well sometimes), when an issue happens they need to figure that out and continue to work on it until it's fixed.
If they tell you when their servers are going to be online, you'll plan around that. You will get back to play the game for that time and expect the service to be running, then when it isn't you'll be super angry and post on the forums about how it's bad service and they lied to you, ruined your evening because you planned around a time they couldn't adhere to.
It's better for them to say "We're taking it down at this time, it'll be up when the works complete" again this isn't unusual within the MMO industry or genre. If there are issues and it's taking longer than expect they will update us via the forums and social media however.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."1 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭You can't compare a bank to an MMO game though, they're doing different things with their services whilst offline.
Gaming patches can and do go wrong (I am sure bank databases do as well sometimes), when an issue happens they need to figure that out and continue to work on it until it's fixed.
If they tell you when their servers are going to be online, you'll plan around that. You will get back to play the game for that time and expect the service to be running, then when it isn't you'll be super angry and post on the forums about how it's bad service and they lied to you, ruined your evening because you planned around a time they couldn't adhere to.
It's better for them to say "We're taking it down at this time, it'll be up when the works complete" again this isn't unusual within the MMO industry or genre. If there are issues and it's taking longer than expect they will update us via the forums and social media however.
But I *can* compare a bank to an MMO - why not??
They are both commercial operations worth $$$ millions/billions.
Some MMO's are richer than banks. Zenny certainly is.
I'm not sure who will get 'super angry', not me... but it's about asking for better from ZOS.
Again, I don't see why you are trying to justify their approach and just settle for a poor service.
I just think it's lazy and arrogant of ZOS not to do this... As as said I couldn't care less how long they take - its the principal.
In the IT industry - they declare planned end times for 'software outages' ALL the time.
Is the pressure on? Yes!
Do you need to plan how you will carry out the maintenance to finish on time? Yes!
Do you wish you had the lazy option of 'finishing whenever'? Yes!
Would the CEO accept this.. NO!!0 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭
<snip> If they tell you when their servers are going to be online, you'll plan around that. You will get back to play the game for that time and expect the service to be running, <sinp>.
Abso-dang-lutely! Isn;t this completely reasonable?
Buddy - we pay for this service - it's not about 'being lied to' - it's about reliability and trustworthiness
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Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
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In a perfect world yes, everything would be up and running bang on the second, but generally anything to do with computers isn't perfect and things will go wrong, often.StackonClown wrote: »
Abso-dang-lutely! Isn;t this completely reasonable?
Buddy - we pay for this service - it's not about 'being lied to' - it's about reliability and trustworthiness
The Homestead patch had the EU servers offline for hours past the time the NA ones came online, people were raging all over because of it, demanding refunds, demanding that ZOS has a duty to provide a perfect service because they pay for it. Apparently people seemed to not read the ToS when they joined.ZeniMax may patch, update, or modify a Service at any time with or without notice to You. Notwithstanding the foregoing, ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services. ZeniMax makes no guarantees about the persistence or availability of any user names or other personas at any time and assumes no liability for lost or deleted Account data. Except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), You agree that ZeniMax will not be liable for any interruption of the Services, delay or failure to perform, any loss of Content (including, but not limited to, UGC, Game Mods and Downloadable Content), and/or Account data (including, but not limited to, Character data) resulting from any causes whatsoever. ZeniMax reserves the right to offer new Services, change and/or discontinue certain Services at any time in its sole discretion.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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So they have an 7 hour downtime to update an web site and app, yest including the back-end naturally.StackonClown wrote: »Example!
" We’re upgrading mickeyBank & mouseBank app (incl. Cardless Cash) tonight.
We’ll be unavailable from 11.50pm–>>>>>>>>7.30am<<<<<<<< AEDT
h-tee-tee-p:///www.whichbank.com.au/update "
I guess you can look up 'which bank' ?
Says it all!
ZoS could just post an 6 hour window and people would be happy then done earlier.
However if maintenance tend to take 3 hours and posted time is 6 people expect 3 anyway.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭So they have an 7 hour downtime to update an web site and app, yest including the back-end naturally.
ZoS could just post an 6 hour window and people would be happy then done earlier.
However if maintenance tend to take 3 hours and posted time is 6 people expect 3 anyway.
Not sure I follow..
I would be happy with any declared outage time say, less than 12 hours, as long as both planned start and planned end times are known.. and of course Zenny should meet the expected end of outage time > 95% of the time..
This is not rocket science...
Again why are people defending Zenimax?
Wouldn't you want to have an expected end time?
Listen - mayyyyy be, Zenny should try it? See how it works?
The ONLY reason they don't is because they have no reason to be compelled to do so (i.e. no player pressure) and it is the LAZY option.
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