Annulment, conjured ward. Why the short duration?

Ihatenightblades

***Nerf^

Tapio75

Been using this annulment for today now with the "New" duration, this is "active" for sure, but in PVE side, it just feels like i am pushing one button more than i need, just to keep the mage flavour on at my character, 6 seconds is quite a short time, You basically have to press the shield back on after each heacy attack because the next takes it down since too much time has passed for the duration to last.

The active playstyle is basically bash more buttons more quickly. It does not need any thought process at all.

The other aproach people seem to want to ignore, would be better. A ward that consumes resources and lasts as long as the resource lasts, be it stamina or magicka. This does not mean, that the ward scales off the resource It means you have x amount of resource, and as long as that resource lastas, the shield stays up if not manually toggled off.. Taking damage would cost extra resource relative to amount of damage.

Have you played warcraft? Well there mas this mage spell "Mana shield".

Quote from WOWWIKI.

"Mana Shield is a self-cast mage spell that shields the caster from all damage. It can be a mage's best friend or worst killer. When this shield up, physical and magical damage will be absorbed at the cost of 1 mana per point of damage. The shield collapses after absorbing a set amount or 1 minute passes, whichever comes first."

Something similar to that would be much better alternative than simple short duration which just makes people spam buttons and abilities more.

You see the good side of this thing is, that it can stay up long in small non consequence types of damage situations like PVE normal weak world mob, the dowwnside though, is that it eats resources all the time. So if you plan to use this shield, you better be ready to also have enough offensive material in hand to kill enemies before you run full OOM and therefore, are left with heavy and ligth attacks only.

In PVP, a nightblade can burst this buble very quickly but cant kill the mage with that, mage is left with few optoions even though the death is almost certain.

A ward that consumes resource relative to damage requires more skill and management than skill that simply needs button bashing every few seconds. This kind of skill also keeps the feel of mage intact.

Muramasa89

strebor2095 wrote: »

The reason the game doesn't have abilities that function differently in PvP and PvE is that they would have to completely rework Cyrodiil and IC - if you're a PvE quester, and you have gotten used to these 12 second shields and you go into a town to fight some monsters - "hang on, now it only lasts 6 seconds! wtf I died, ZOS please make it consistent!" Or maybe you don't browse the forums or reddit at all, and you have no idea that it has a different duration and you base your whole build on shields and then die. You would get more angry players who just used their 56 Dreugh Wax on "useless" sets.

Wards already block less in Cyrodiil than elsewhere, something like 50% less. I wasn't aware initially, but rather than cry about it I looked into it and realised it wasn't a bug or wasted effort. So I can't really agree with this. Also if people were using wards correctly, the timer is irrelevant, which is what makes HW better than EW in particular.

Lord_Wrath

I like the idea of shields bring 12s long. I get why they shortened the duration but its pretty much gone by the time you cast it, very easy to expire right before taking a big hit. Even back when shields were 20s long i had my fair share of losses during good fights. Good fights mraning they dont animation cancel 5 skills that leave you little to no chance to survive.

Minalan

salmoncat33 wrote: »

Here is the thing, it is demanded in many trials I have been in to keep shields up. I'm also told to do decent dps at the same time. Shields are on my back bar though... so I have to switch bars almost every 3 seconds to accomplish this. It is not fun to play like this.

Oh.. I didn't keep my shield up for 1 second and the mage turned around and someone wasn't stacked well enough. Zap I'm dead, so much fun.

Guys, the 'Empowered Ward' morph lasts for a full ten seconds, and it gives you a minor intellect group buff.

You should be able to keep that ward up, and if you stay out of red circles it should be enough of a damage buffer for most PVE. It should be about 20K, giving you 40K effective health when fighting mobs, which is about what your tank has.

Furthermore, while shields have no resists, elemental defender and hardy CP work on them. So you can make that 20K shield very effective, even though it's 30% smaller than the 'hardened' morph.

RinaldoGandolphi

The only thing shortening the duration of shields done was force mag Sorcs into sustain sets like Seducer, Lich, Amberplasm, and Bloodthorn touch.

Other classes can wear damage sets instead in pvp makes a big difference

So Sorcs use wear sustain sets and high max magicka and will simply never run out of resources 1v1.

Those who whined about Sorcs shields made it worse. You could run a Kags wearing Sorc out of magic. You have no chance to run that Seducer/Lich/Amberplasm/Bloodthorn Touch Sorc out resources alone...and with the CP cap how it is those sustain Sorcs hit as hard as the old damage Kags Sorcs did except they have infinite sustain.

Was a very poor choice to shorten duration it just made the mag Sorc meta even more powerful then it was

RinaldoGandolphi

Ps: I can solo a 1.8mill+ world boss with my pvp build and never drop below 60% magic and never need to sip a potion and hit like a truck in pvp.

If shields were not so short many Sorcs would stop the OP insane sustain sets for damage ones thus giving them a weakness, but the amberplasm/Bloodthorn ones really have no weaknesses and have really good Stam recovery it's simply broken.

hmsdragonfly

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The only thing shortening the duration of shields done was force mag Sorcs into sustain sets like Seducer, Lich, Amberplasm, and Bloodthorn touch.

Other classes can wear damage sets instead in pvp makes a big difference

So Sorcs use wear sustain sets and high max magicka and will simply never run out of resources 1v1.

Those who whined about Sorcs shields made it worse. You could run a Kags wearing Sorc out of magic. You have no chance to run that Seducer/Lich/Amberplasm/Bloodthorn Touch Sorc out resources alone...and with the CP cap how it is those sustain Sorcs hit as hard as the old damage Kags Sorcs did except they have infinite sustain.

Was a very poor choice to shorten duration it just made the mag Sorc meta even more powerful then it was

OK, so you were saying: ward nerf made magsorc OP because they now use sustain sets? What? So if they didn't nerf wards no sorc would figure out that wearing sustain sets helps with resource management? What? People have put together so many cancerous setups like Blessed+Tremor+Viper and you are saying no one would figure out wearing sustain sets helps if they didn't nerf ward?

What, dude? What?

Wollust

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Ps: I can solo a 1.8mill+ world boss with my pvp build and never drop below 60% magic and never need to sip a potion and hit like a truck in pvp.

If shields were not so short many Sorcs would stop the OP insane sustain sets for damage ones thus giving them a weakness, but the amberplasm/Bloodthorn ones really have no weaknesses and have really good Stam recovery it's simply broken.

That made no sense whatsoever

aLi3nZ

I think the nerf down to 6 seconds was too much. Doing things like vma as a sorc you do really need shield up all the time. Pretty draining to have to reapply so often. I wish they nerfed it to 10 seconds as least. Still half the duration of what it was.

sumisu1

How about when I activate annulment before jumping off a building and my shield is still up but my health decreased significantly, what's up with that? lol why does it not protect me from fall damage? too OP?

thankyourat

20 second shields were unbalanced in PvE as well. most skills that people think are PvP nerfs are actually PvE nerfs

Lylith

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

***Nerf^

you had it right the first time.

they were wrobeled

Massive_Stain

Tapio75 wrote: »

Why is it, that these wards have such a short duration?

Its somewhat of annoyance to constantly keep up a spell, that feels more like an baseline armor extension that naturally comes with mage class.

It would be much more enjoyable to play if it had double the duration (Both).

I understand that this might be useful with this duration as protection against burst damage in PVP but in the other hand, this is just the reason why i dislike PVP stuff a lot, it tends to mess PVE side and every time PVE side seems to be the one that needs to adapt. Why cant we just have these things work differently in PVE and PVP.

Id just like this to have longer duration so i could concentrate on other things... No, i dont really need it but its more like a flavour thing on mage type character, no self respecting mage lets angry mobs pound fists and swords to his/her face, mage always have a protection spell that can be hold up for long durations.

Would be interesting to have this thing as "Toggle" though.. A toggle that consumes stamina (Mental stamina in story perspective) to keep up, each 2 seconds its up, it consumes certain amount of stamina, each hit you take costs extra stamina per hit but only x hits per 2 secs. This would be something different and interesting to have.

PS: I liked the originsal sound effect of annylment more.

You must be new. Long story short, PVP qq waaah

Devs pat cauliky pvper on top of head. We take it from 20 to 6 seconds just 4 u

Minalan

Massive_Stain wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

Why is it, that these wards have such a short duration?

Its somewhat of annoyance to constantly keep up a spell, that feels more like an baseline armor extension that naturally comes with mage class.

It would be much more enjoyable to play if it had double the duration (Both).

I understand that this might be useful with this duration as protection against burst damage in PVP but in the other hand, this is just the reason why i dislike PVP stuff a lot, it tends to mess PVE side and every time PVE side seems to be the one that needs to adapt. Why cant we just have these things work differently in PVE and PVP.

Id just like this to have longer duration so i could concentrate on other things... No, i dont really need it but its more like a flavour thing on mage type character, no self respecting mage lets angry mobs pound fists and swords to his/her face, mage always have a protection spell that can be hold up for long durations.

Would be interesting to have this thing as "Toggle" though.. A toggle that consumes stamina (Mental stamina in story perspective) to keep up, each 2 seconds its up, it consumes certain amount of stamina, each hit you take costs extra stamina per hit but only x hits per 2 secs. This would be something different and interesting to have.

PS: I liked the originsal sound effect of annylment more.

You must be new. Long story short, PVP qq waaah

Devs pat cauliky pvper on top of head. We take it from 20 to 6 seconds just 4 u

Except. That no other defense in the game protects you for 20K+ health (double stacked shield) for 20 seconds. Sure the monsters weren't crying about it, but someone had to. It was better than reflect scales, dodge roll, block, and combat cloak all put together.

Now you slot a sustain set, and the shield is part of your rotation. If you slot infernal guardian, shields become an *offensive* spell 50% of the time.

There's also a PVE conjured ward morph that lasts for ten seconds (empowered ward), that's plenty of time.

Shields are fine.

Massive_Stain

Minalan wrote: »

Massive_Stain wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

Why is it, that these wards have such a short duration?

Its somewhat of annoyance to constantly keep up a spell, that feels more like an baseline armor extension that naturally comes with mage class.

It would be much more enjoyable to play if it had double the duration (Both).

I understand that this might be useful with this duration as protection against burst damage in PVP but in the other hand, this is just the reason why i dislike PVP stuff a lot, it tends to mess PVE side and every time PVE side seems to be the one that needs to adapt. Why cant we just have these things work differently in PVE and PVP.

Id just like this to have longer duration so i could concentrate on other things... No, i dont really need it but its more like a flavour thing on mage type character, no self respecting mage lets angry mobs pound fists and swords to his/her face, mage always have a protection spell that can be hold up for long durations.

Would be interesting to have this thing as "Toggle" though.. A toggle that consumes stamina (Mental stamina in story perspective) to keep up, each 2 seconds its up, it consumes certain amount of stamina, each hit you take costs extra stamina per hit but only x hits per 2 secs. This would be something different and interesting to have.

PS: I liked the originsal sound effect of annylment more.

You must be new. Long story short, PVP qq waaah

Devs pat cauliky pvper on top of head. We take it from 20 to 6 seconds just 4 u

Except. That no other defense in the game protects you for 20K+ health (double stacked shield) for 20 seconds. Sure the monsters weren't crying about it, but someone had to. It was better than reflect scales, dodge roll, block, and combat cloak all put together.

Now you slot a sustain set, and the shield is part of your rotation. If you slot infernal guardian, shields become an *offensive* spell 50% of the time.

There's also a PVE conjured ward morph that lasts for ten seconds (empowered ward), that's plenty of time.

Shields are fine.

Just prove my point some more lol

leepalmer95

Pvp'ers complained about shield stacking, zos nerfed the duration to 6s, seem to ignored pvp'ers.

Maybe it was the fact in pve a full dps sorc could tank better than most tanks because shields would be more that double their hp and last 20s.

It's not hard to recast them, i think they should be like 8s but thats just me. 6s or 8s it's not too hard.

FriedEggSandwich

You use 2 wards in pve? You want your ward to last longer in pve? Why are you even regularly using a ward in pve? lol Power Surge is all you need to stop yourself dying, your ward should just be an emergency measure to allow surge heals to catch up if you make a mistake. If you're trying to keep 2 wards up constantly in pve you're doing it very wrong and wasting your dps and magicka.

Anti_Virus

raj72616a wrote: »

they used to last like 20sec. but pvper whined abt it. so now they are nerfed to 6sec

Dodge roll and Block used to be great but people whined about it so now it has a stacking cost and block doesn't regen stamina.

leepalmer95

Anti_Virus wrote: »

raj72616a wrote: »

they used to last like 20sec. but pvper whined abt it. so now they are nerfed to 6sec

Dodge roll and Block used to be great but people whined about it so now it has a stacking cost and block doesn't regen stamina.

Used to be OP *

salmoncat33

Yes yes ward has a morph that lasts longer, let's all reroll to sorc so we can have a slightly longer shield, won't that be some fun diversity. Elder sorcerers online.

Sigma957

With my Sorc is pve as it is now with 19k health, if I use Annulment + Hardened Ward I am getting easily nearly 40k shield ( 20k in cyro ). If this was lasting 20sec like it was I would never die unless there were a zerg beating down on me. Anyway why is this being brought up now after the change has been in for over 6 months now lol.

leepalmer95

Sigma957 wrote: »

With my Sorc is pve as it is now with 19k health, if I use Annulment + Hardened Ward I am getting easily nearly 40k shield ( 20k in cyro ). If this was lasting 20sec like it was I would never die unless there were a zerg beating down on me. Anyway why is this being brought up now after the change has been in for over 6 months now lol.

Its a bit weird after staff builds got quite a nice buff as well.

GawdSB

Because as always ZOS bent over for PVP and messed up things for PVE.

leepalmer95

GawdSB wrote: »

Because as always ZOS bent over for PVP and messed up things for PVE.

How exactly is it messed up?

hmsdragonfly

aLi3nZ wrote: »

I think the nerf down to 6 seconds was too much. Doing things like vma as a sorc you do really need shield up all the time. Pretty draining to have to reapply so often. I wish they nerfed it to 10 seconds as least. Still half the duration of what it was.

Empowered Ward is 10 seconds....

Valorin

So far I experienced the shield spells in the game as pretty much overpowered... I don't have the stats and all, but was farming with both a flame magicka DK and a stamina DK, well, and a Nightblade on stamina and on magicka and others... So far, I was able to loot urns and pots without even killing the mobs and NOT die only by spamming Annulment. This didn't work for any stamina build.
Shield spells enable us to be a top notch Damage Dealer AND be nearly indestructable at the same time for a short duration. Since you even regain magicka with that Anulment morph while getting hit, this also comes at very little cost. A friend of mine runs a sorcerer which is only killable with very high burst damage which also has to hit when the shield is down... Can't do that on a stamina based character.

Voxicity

Molydeus wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

If you were using them in every trash fight or low incoming damage moment but they allowed you to stand in red then you're just a bad player and the 'nerf' to shields has simply made that more clear to yourself and others.

There is more to it than being good or bad player when talking about mage shielding himself from harm.

A powerful mage can and will protect himself from harm by using various ward spells, this means a mage can stand in place while casting all sorts of spells. Study of arcane arts is often something that takes lots of learning and reading, study and experiment in mages residence, this often leads mages to be fragile, not very fit on physical side, this mean sthey often tend to stand in protectiave wards rather than run around. Casting spells also requires concentration which easily breaks when running around like crazy rabbit.

Therefore the wards or at least some of them should be designed with this in mind. There needs to be another mechanics in place than short duration which though, is easy mechanic to implement.

These wards could be for example, a toggleable skill that requires resource like stamina or magicka to keep up, every damage should also consume resource. This way the ward can be done right both in PVP and PVE. The burst in PVP can dissolve the shield quickly by draining its resource with large damage, this also prevents another shield stacking since there is no resource to cast another ward, in PVE where you attack normal weak enemies, the shield wwill hold for a long time, it has no big consequence in the end result (Enemies dying in PVE), but in side of doing the thing feel right for the mage ttype characters, it has a big impact.

In various fantasy universees, Maintaining a ward has always required great concentration, thus the standing in place and constant cost of resource is much more "realistic" than one time cost with short duration.

KEK

Didn't realise this was an RP thread, thought it was about skills/balance. You should probably have put it in https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/fiction-roleplaying

RP is definitely not my forte so I'll be off

KEK

Didn't realize there were minors in this thread.

@Molydeus lol, what?

So you have absolutely nothing to add to conversation, other than to insult people. KEK

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Tabbycat

ZOS please nerf PvP. It is overpowered and ruining my PvE experience.