Alchemy Writs and Nirnroot

STEVIL

"There is even an addon, Dolgubon's Lazy Writ Crafter which does most stuff for you...except for the moving around bit "

@Synfaer

haven't tried it thanks for the tip.

Fudly_budly

STEVIL wrote: »

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

Agree. It is nirnroot 3 times out of 4 (there are 4 possible quests, and one requires lorkhan's tears). If you are doing multiple alchemy master writs then it is functionally impossible to keep enough nirnroot.

What you say is patently untrue unless you add "if you dont take any steps to deal with it."

Alchemy writs are an amazing value already - they dont need to be mucked with and made worse for those who can and do manage them every day.

^^
Exactly! Like duuuuuuuuh, get out there and farm. And harvest the forking water hyacinth you lazy bastages!

helediron

There is a simple fix. The ingredient table is fixed and is now Nirnroot, Nirnroot, Nirnroot, Lorkhan's tears. ZOS can change that in a blink into e.g Nirnroot, Luminous Russula, Alkahest, Lorkhan's Tears.

But this is a common pattern in games. They put purposefully Nirnroot many times to create that scarcity. Fixing this for players would make people to farm less and that is something they don't want. You can see the same pattern in housing and Rakeipa and in vMA weapons.

Slurg

helediron wrote: »

There is a simple fix. The ingredient table is fixed and is now Nirnroot, Nirnroot, Nirnroot, Lorkhan's tears. ZOS can change that in a blink into e.g Nirnroot, Luminous Russula, Alkahest, Lorkhan's Tears.

I wish it was Alkahest, Alkahest, Alkahest, Alkahest!

And I agree with the other part, since there has been no official comment to the contrary, we can assume this is intentional.

STEVIL

Slurg wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

There is a simple fix. The ingredient table is fixed and is now Nirnroot, Nirnroot, Nirnroot, Lorkhan's tears. ZOS can change that in a blink into e.g Nirnroot, Luminous Russula, Alkahest, Lorkhan's Tears.

I wish it was Alkahest, Alkahest, Alkahest, Alkahest!

And I agree with the other part, since there has been no official comment to the contrary, we can assume this is intentional.

Oh it was intentional.

Way back in the day when it was done way way wsy wayvway before homestead and before poisons nirnroot was almost useless.

If you look at lower tier writs they use more valuable reagents for their trips.

Getting to upper tier and only seeing useless nirn and water was a boon over seeing say mountain flower or corn flower threebies feeding writs.

Absolutely intentional... to eat up useless mats, spare useful mats and give nirnroot a value.

Now however, they have done the most evil thing a dark malevolent force can do - made the tier-10 writs even more valuable by giving them an additional jackpot chance.

Truly evil. They make them worth more, people do more and fuss about how bad that is.

Heavens to betsy, zos, stop making things in the game deliver more than what they used to. It makes them worthless.

:-)

CrazySonoran

STEVIL wrote: »

"I have been doing more alchemy writs since Homestead went live and have totally depleted my stocks of Nirnroot. So I started watching and EVERY writ I get asks for 3 of them. Why cant they ask for something like one of the bazillions of Lorkhan's Tears I have or Alkahest. Nirnroot isn't that common as it is, and to have all the writs ask for 3 of them it added up and I went through hundreds of them since the update. One side effect is now Nirnroot has gone up close to 600g each from 150g before Homestead. Devs please do something or we will have another "Columbine" in the game."


The first bolded portion seems clear that it is suggesting they change it to ask for mats that poster has in abundance -bazillions - so its targetting the mats they gather as a matter of course during their playstyle and asking to switch away from one they don't. The second bold makes it clear this is about a global change not just a personal change for their account - one that affects many or else it wouldn't do a thing to the costs, right?

Ok Stevil, you just proved my statement and put on the same page you changing what I said and then trolling me over it.

I said, and you even bolded it in your reply-- "Why cant they ask for something like one of the bazillions of Lorkhan's Tears I have or Alkahest."

To which you replied -- ...is suggesting they change it to ask for mats that poster has in abundance -bazillions - so its targeting the mats they gather as a matter of course during their play style and asking to switch away from one they don't.

WOW!! Where did you make up that? Please note that in my statement there is a phrase "something like". That is not the same as "suggesting they change it to ask for mats the poster has in abundance" or "targeting mats they gather..." For the record I have "Bazillions" of most mats, and I use that term as a generalization of some random number from 10-infinity. I have "bazillions" of nirnroot, I have 1300 Lorkhan's Tears, I also have hundreds of most of the alchemy reagents. Any of them would work as others have even suggested having it ask for any of the other many reagents or waters/oils.

Second bolding, you keep insisting that players never state that they don't like a system in the game because if the devs listen to them the devs might make a global change to the game. Well how the heck do you think games actually change over time? Players make suggestions and devs sometimes listen, sometimes they dont. All games would die REALLY fast if the devs never listened to the players. This is OUR game, not ZOS's game, without us they close their doors, they dont listen to us, they close their doors...

I am through, you obviously cant hold a constructive conversation in the forums, I have seen you do the same thing to others and have done the same to me a few months ago. I will therefore ignore any posts you make on my threads unless you are actually giving valid comments and questions and NOt changing what I say to give yourself an excuse to troll me.

STEVIL

CrazySonoran wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

"I have been doing more alchemy writs since Homestead went live and have totally depleted my stocks of Nirnroot. So I started watching and EVERY writ I get asks for 3 of them. Why cant they ask for something like one of the bazillions of Lorkhan's Tears I have or Alkahest. Nirnroot isn't that common as it is, and to have all the writs ask for 3 of them it added up and I went through hundreds of them since the update. One side effect is now Nirnroot has gone up close to 600g each from 150g before Homestead. Devs please do something or we will have another "Columbine" in the game."


The first bolded portion seems clear that it is suggesting they change it to ask for mats that poster has in abundance -bazillions - so its targetting the mats they gather as a matter of course during their playstyle and asking to switch away from one they don't. The second bold makes it clear this is about a global change not just a personal change for their account - one that affects many or else it wouldn't do a thing to the costs, right?

Ok Stevil, you just proved my statement and put on the same page you changing what I said and then trolling me over it.

I said, and you even bolded it in your reply-- "Why cant they ask for something like one of the bazillions of Lorkhan's Tears I have or Alkahest."

To which you replied -- ...is suggesting they change it to ask for mats that poster has in abundance -bazillions - so its targeting the mats they gather as a matter of course during their play style and asking to switch away from one they don't.

WOW!! Where did you make up that? Please note that in my statement there is a phrase "something like". That is not the same as "suggesting they change it to ask for mats the poster has in abundance" or "targeting mats they gather..." For the record I have "Bazillions" of most mats, and I use that term as a generalization of some random number from 10-infinity. I have "bazillions" of nirnroot, I have 1300 Lorkhan's Tears, I also have hundreds of most of the alchemy reagents. Any of them would work as others have even suggested having it ask for any of the other many reagents or waters/oils.

Second bolding, you keep insisting that players never state that they don't like a system in the game because if the devs listen to them the devs might make a global change to the game. Well how the heck do you think games actually change over time? Players make suggestions and devs sometimes listen, sometimes they dont. All games would die REALLY fast if the devs never listened to the players. This is OUR game, not ZOS's game, without us they close their doors, they dont listen to us, they close their doors...

I am through, you obviously cant hold a constructive conversation in the forums, I have seen you do the same thing to others and have done the same to me a few months ago. I will therefore ignore any posts you make on my threads unless you are actually giving valid comments and questions and NOt changing what I say to give yourself an excuse to troll me.

[/b]
See this is where it gets silly, right?

You specifically request a change, mention in your request the option of using mats you have in abundance and even name several of those and get upset when that is called out as seeking a change that serves your needs, that targets your surplus just because you added "something like"? thats silly. When you ask for a change and specifically mention things you have in abundance as candidates - you gotta know what you are doing there? Right? "Something like" doesn't mean "but not these" after all.

you could have just said "rotating thru a variety of ingredients" or just "other ingredients" or anything and not specifically listed the ingredients you claim to have "bazillions" of.

But you didn't.

then you get huffy when the self-serving nature of that is pointed out or when the counter-proposals allow the current to stay as is and you and others and everyone to gain options without losing the current ones but just happens to not favor your chosen few ingredients?



Second, on this " you keep insisting that players never state that they don't like a system in the game "
that is a bald faced l... mischaracterization. it is practically #altfacts.

1. I never once said here or anywhere else players shouldn't ask for change. in this thread iirc i have posted several alternative changes to deal with the problems.
2. i state repeatedly the choice for a change which adds new options and does not takeaway existing options is preferable to the option which takes away the existing and replaces it with something else.- often more serving to the poster but not for all.
3. in my very sig, look below, you will see several points in the game now that i feel so strongly about them being wrong that i have them detailed in my sig. i have joined in threads about those topics also proposing these types of changes. And yes, some of those i propose do even change/takeaway the existing - showing as i said it is not to be never done but as a last resort.

there is no blanket "never state they don't like" nonsense going on... thats just an easy way to try and dismiss points you find objectionable. its dismissive. its the forum equivalent of when someone gets their advances rejected brushing it off with "they must just not be into -insert gender - " - a way of pretending the person/idea wasn't rejected for good reason but just out of some blind "not my fault" sort of excuse.

if you ignoring me means you will stop with this campaign to mischaracterize my position, thats the second best news i have gotten so far today. First best was the fix for the Deadly strikes writs combined with a TBS writ for 80+ vouchers dropping. Combined they took me from 70 vouchers in hand to 234 vouchers in hand in less time than it took to type this post.

Somehow tho, i doubt it will, but i can hope.

bryanhaas

BergisMacBride wrote: »

Yeah nirnroot is the only alchemy mat I need to purchase from traders just to do writs. With my playstyle I just cannot keep up and I only have 3 chars doing the highest level alchemy writs- I have others that are 50 alchemy but have them do the lowest ones just because of the nirnroot issue.

It used to really bother me but I just adjusted by buying up 200-300 or so when my inventory drops to near 200. The Dark Brotherhood supplier also frequently gives mats with nirnroot in the satchel so that helps as well. No biggie although if the price gets to be too high it could become an issue. As it stands now alch writs are still very profitable for me.

Do I think this is a conscious design decision on Zos' part to have 3/4 of highest level alch writs ask for 3 nirnroot? Nah, personally I think they just ended up that way when the max writ and craft levels increased with The Orsinium dlc and they never bothered to change it. IMO, this is in the very low or no priority box of things to do at Zos. Would I like to see it change? Maybe, but not to something more valuable or more commonly used. Is it a really big issue for me currently? Not at the moment, although I reserve the right to change my mind should nirnroot prices go through the roof.

It should all balance out, if nirn prices do go through the roof people stop buying supply goes up price comes down and you can buy up a bunch of it.

STEVIL

bryanhaas wrote: »

BergisMacBride wrote: »

Yeah nirnroot is the only alchemy mat I need to purchase from traders just to do writs. With my playstyle I just cannot keep up and I only have 3 chars doing the highest level alchemy writs- I have others that are 50 alchemy but have them do the lowest ones just because of the nirnroot issue.

It used to really bother me but I just adjusted by buying up 200-300 or so when my inventory drops to near 200. The Dark Brotherhood supplier also frequently gives mats with nirnroot in the satchel so that helps as well. No biggie although if the price gets to be too high it could become an issue. As it stands now alch writs are still very profitable for me.

Do I think this is a conscious design decision on Zos' part to have 3/4 of highest level alch writs ask for 3 nirnroot? Nah, personally I think they just ended up that way when the max writ and craft levels increased with The Orsinium dlc and they never bothered to change it. IMO, this is in the very low or no priority box of things to do at Zos. Would I like to see it change? Maybe, but not to something more valuable or more commonly used. Is it a really big issue for me currently? Not at the moment, although I reserve the right to change my mind should nirnroot prices go through the roof.

It should all balance out, if nirn prices do go through the roof people stop buying supply goes up price comes down and you can buy up a bunch of it.

yup.

Saw someone saying master wrtis need to be about six times more profitable to be worth it or something and pushing for boycott etc... and i thought - if they aren't worth it for you to do - they sell for thousands per voucher. its a free additional gimme to your crafting box... did not cost you a thing and it can sell for thousands... boycott?

BergisMacBride

I'm still good with Nirnroot at the moment but out of curiosity stopped by several guild traders to check on prices - looks like there is quite abit of supply and folks are trying to sell for 400-500 mostly - geez this is much more expensive than columbine now - kind of crazy when you figure alch master writs are pretty meh even if they are easy. No way I'll be buying at those prices.

Anyways, there is some hope that maybe Zos will make some changes to the nirn requirement seeing as how it has created this mini bubble in their game economy. If they can change the blacksmithing writ to require only 3 items like they did with the homestead release, they can and might change this too. If they did, my preference would be something along the lines of what Hele said earlier: rotation of nirn, lum russula, alkahest and lorkhan's tears.

Nestor

With every other level of Alchemy, the only difference is the Solvent, either for the Potion or to be turned in. The Reagent is always variable, at least with the various levels I have done. It is only the top end writ that always asks for Nirnroot if it wants a reagent.

This illustrates a problem with the top end writs, not a situation to be cherished and protected.

So, just make the top end writs just like all the others for consistency.