A suggestion to improve Argonians

ArchMikem

Oompuh wrote: »

Argonians are fine, more than fine actually. Great for Tanking and Healing in PvE.

OP wants an Argonian damage dealer. Hence the change suggestion to also include an increase to Max Stamina.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

dsalter wrote: »

increasing max stats would be a pretty huge buff, considering max magicka/stamina = more raw damage.
this sounds like you just want a gank build buff more than anything

Actually that's what Argonians are every race fills its lore role besides Argonians are most know as deadly Assassins not just the Shadow Scales but in war Argonians use hit and run attacks Argonians are the best gorilla fighters Assassins are not just healers and are in no way tanks ZoS made them healers to full the Tank, Healer and Damage Dealer MMO standard.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

You underestimate how valuable their 12% to all resources is from a potion use.

Especially in PVP.

No lie this is a great passive on my Builds that have good sustain it's not as nice cause they barely use potions so it's a waste if you manage resources but no doubt the best passive we have.


The resistance buff and the max magic are both trash they equally do next to nothing. But none of this matter players we just pick the min/max races and ZoS has done nothing to stop the Tank and Healer pigeonhole. So not real help for the player base and we all know ZoS gives no damn.

So why keep trying this. I stop reporting bug, asking for changes and helping new players it's all a waste.

Aliyavana

Delete filthy argonians would be best change

EldritchPenguin

Lemme math this out for a second.

If the passive lasts 10 seconds, and potions have a 45 second cooldown, then the passive will have a 22% uptime without investing into potion cooldown reduction.

So over the course of the fight, you'll have an extra 10% to all stats 22% of the time, and an extra 0% to all stats the remaining 78% of the time. Over the course of a minute, you, on average, will have 2.2% increased stats, on top of your 3% Mag/Stam, for an overall increase of 11.2% to health and a whopping 5.2% increase to Mag/Stam.

It would really only be good for burst with Clever Alch builds in PvP, unless the numbers on it were significantly higher. In which case, I feel like people would still shy away from Argonians for DPS roles if they don't want to chug potions like addicts to stay competitive.

A pocket Warhorn could be an interesting idea, but I'd honestly rather have potion cooldown reduction or more Magicka.

leepalmer95

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

Lemme math this out for a second.

If the passive lasts 10 seconds, and potions have a 45 second cooldown, then the passive will have a 22% uptime without investing into potion cooldown reduction.

So over the course of the fight, you'll have an extra 10% to all stats 22% of the time, and an extra 0% to all stats the remaining 88% of the time. Over the course of a minute, you, on average, will have 2.2% increased stats, on top of your 3% Mag/Stam, for an overall increase of 11.2% to health and a whopping 5.2% increase to Mag/Stam.

It would really only be good for burst with Clever Alch builds in PvP, unless the numbers on it were significantly higher. In which case, I feel like people would still shy away from Argonians for DPS roles if they don't want to chug potions like addicts to stay competitive.

A pocket Warhorn could be an interesting idea, but I'd honestly rather have potion cooldown reduction or more Magicka.

You messed up on the maths

0% extra stats 78% of the time

maxjapank

Argonian passives are fine.

Dr_Rektar

Argonians are nice healing / tanking class.

Darkonflare15

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

increasing max stats would be a pretty huge buff, considering max magicka/stamina = more raw damage.
this sounds like you just want a gank build buff more than anything

Actually that's what Argonians are every race fills its lore role besides Argonians are most know as deadly Assassins not just the Shadow Scales but in war Argonians use hit and run attacks Argonians are the best gorilla fighters Assassins are not just healers and are in no way tanks ZoS made them healers to full the Tank, Healer and Damage Dealer MMO standard.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

You underestimate how valuable their 12% to all resources is from a potion use.

Especially in PVP.

No lie this is a great passive on my Builds that have good sustain it's not as nice cause they barely use potions so it's a waste if you manage resources but no doubt the best passive we have.


The resistance buff and the max magic are both trash they equally do next to nothing. But none of this matter players we just pick the min/max races and ZoS has done nothing to stop the Tank and Healer pigeonhole. So not real help for the player base and we all know ZoS gives no damn.

So why keep trying this. I stop reporting bug, asking for changes and helping new players it's all a waste.

I am so tired of players always going to Argonian lore for their passives. There is nothing in Argonian lore that clearly states Argonians are specifily good at anything that resembles offensive that would work with this game. Yes poison and disease resistance is there and something to do with swimming is there but just because they are good at hit and run tactics does not mean any stam buff or any other damage buff. All this means is they are knowledgeble about surviving and that they are jack of all trades not really a master of anything. So what to do with a race that not really good at anything other than survival and do not have any defining traits. You make them a survival race. Argonian is the only race in game that has a way to get resources from all sources. Magic, health, and stamina. Give them health to survive hits and allow them to heal faster. Any other buff is just there to make them more useful and other areas.

Dracindo

"They're also like, the worst race".
Now, I'm going to have to stop you right there. Orcs are still a valid race.

On topic:
The passives are good, in my opinion.

Mix

This thread makes me wonder if the OP ever saw the original Argonian passives!

I always play Argonians because I love the race and I know they aren't THE best for end-game PvE dps but I would rather play a character I love than one purely because they currently have the best racials for dps.

I think our updated racials put us nicely beside the other races. (prior to update there was a lot of reason to complain lol)

As for your suggested changes: I don't like either of them really. Adding a stamina bonus AND a magicka bonus would likely put us ahead of other races in terms of benefits from racials. Also, I love the potions restoring ALL resources. I can use my dps potions (restore mag/spell power buff) AND get health and stam back whenever I use them. A mini-warhorn seems too OP and not suitable as a racial.

sumisu1

defined purpose? the spines are ERECT with PURPOSE.

Vildebill

No defined purpose? Probably the best tanking race with the resource management and received healing. Good for healing too, not exactly Breton good but still.

Tommy_The_Gun

Looking at their racial passives, argonians are "Jack of all trades, master of none". They are awesome healers, that is for sure, but if there is something that can be improved it is this:

Change + 3% magicka bonus to:
"Increases your Max Magicka or Stamina by 3% ,whatever stat is higher"
That way the bonus will stay the same, but it will be available for both stamina and magicka builds.

Btw. If you look at the lore you will see that argonians always had bonuses to "stamina" things like speed & agility (in Morrowind & Oblivion) and for lock-picking, pick-pocket & sneak (in Skyrim).

From a technical point of view - it won't a buff or nerf. It will be just a slight change that will make argonian passives more lore - accurate.

EldritchPenguin

leepalmer95 wrote: »

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

Lemme math this out for a second.

If the passive lasts 10 seconds, and potions have a 45 second cooldown, then the passive will have a 22% uptime without investing into potion cooldown reduction.

So over the course of the fight, you'll have an extra 10% to all stats 22% of the time, and an extra 0% to all stats the remaining 88% of the time. Over the course of a minute, you, on average, will have 2.2% increased stats, on top of your 3% Mag/Stam, for an overall increase of 11.2% to health and a whopping 5.2% increase to Mag/Stam.

It would really only be good for burst with Clever Alch builds in PvP, unless the numbers on it were significantly higher. In which case, I feel like people would still shy away from Argonians for DPS roles if they don't want to chug potions like addicts to stay competitive.

A pocket Warhorn could be an interesting idea, but I'd honestly rather have potion cooldown reduction or more Magicka.

You messed up on the maths

0% extra stats 78% of the time

Whoops. xP

Fixed.

Thanks for the catch.

Browiseth

Mix wrote: »

This thread makes me wonder if the OP ever saw the original Argonian passives!

i did

i'm still bitter

Runschei

So no one wants to change the swim speed?

King-Justin-Arisdale

In the hands of a skilled player an Argonian is one badass race.
Excellent tanks and healers, and excellent in PvP.
I had been dubbed "the beast" by some guilds I have tanked for since launch.

SickDuck

Argonian racial passives are amazing. Buffing them the suggested way would be OP.

CirithValaria

I don't know maybe I'm a fanlizard, but for me they have always been good enough.
After their latest buffs I honestly feel they are more than balanced and suited well for all roles and many builds.
Even if I like Zos I can't help to think that if they decide to change something it will go worse rather than make it "better".

JWKe

They have one of the strongest racials in the current build and you're suggesting a buff? Lolol rip

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

increasing max stats would be a pretty huge buff, considering max magicka/stamina = more raw damage.
this sounds like you just want a gank build buff more than anything

Actually that's what Argonians are every race fills its lore role besides Argonians are most know as deadly Assassins not just the Shadow Scales but in war Argonians use hit and run attacks Argonians are the best gorilla fighters Assassins are not just healers and are in no way tanks ZoS made them healers to full the Tank, Healer and Damage Dealer MMO standard.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

You underestimate how valuable their 12% to all resources is from a potion use.

Especially in PVP.

No lie this is a great passive on my Builds that have good sustain it's not as nice cause they barely use potions so it's a waste if you manage resources but no doubt the best passive we have.


The resistance buff and the max magic are both trash they equally do next to nothing. But none of this matter players we just pick the min/max races and ZoS has done nothing to stop the Tank and Healer pigeonhole. So not real help for the player base and we all know ZoS gives no damn.

So why keep trying this. I stop reporting bug, asking for changes and helping new players it's all a waste.

I am so tired of players always going to Argonian lore for their passives. There is nothing in Argonian lore that clearly states Argonians are specifily good at anything that resembles offensive that would work with this game. Yes poison and disease resistance is there and something to do with swimming is there but just because they are good at hit and run tactics does not mean any stam buff or any other damage buff. All this means is they are knowledgeble about surviving and that they are jack of all trades not really a master of anything. So what to do with a race that not really good at anything other than survival and do not have any defining traits. You make them a survival race. Argonian is the only race in game that has a way to get resources from all sources. Magic, health, and stamina. Give them health to survive hits and allow them to heal faster. Any other buff is just there to make them more useful and other areas.

The lore matters every other race has passives that match perfectly with their lore. Argonians got the shifted hard. We are not resistant to poison and diseases. We are completely immune to poison and nearly immune to all diseases the resistance passives is not even close.

Nord have strong frost resistance, Breton defend well vs magic. Dummer can take the heat. Their passives reflect as much Argonians in this game are nothing like the lore you can burn a Dark Elf, freeze a Nord and hurt a Breton with magic but can't poison or drown an Argonian.

Yes the potion passive is nice it also has a default 45 seconds cooldown 30 seconds with max reductions to potion cooldowns have a 12% resource return every 45 seconds and that's only if you chain potions has a 25% uptime per minute. Add the that most players have one big and two small pools it's not much help to the smaller pools.

Plus come on any with a 30 second cooldown that's the longest races cool down by far.