Backlash is stupid

arkansas_ESO

This was in a 1v1, I'm at 26k physical resist (major resolve from Shadow Barrier, minor resolve (and Major Evasion) from Mirage, Blood Spawn proc, 5 heavy) and 3.5k crit resist (5 impen+Transmutation proc.) It's even worse against magic Templars--I'm convinced nobody at ZOS checked to see how insane Backlash+Soul Assault+Radiant Oppression would be before pushing this to live.

ku5h

If you have so many problems with it, slot purge. But seriously, if that was really in 1v1, what did that guy do, land like 4 wrecking blows and 2 executes while you were at 10% hp to get that number. You have to take insana amount of dmg to get that number. I had it once or twice on my magplar but it was with other ppl in the mix, my solo max was around 7k, which is not that much since Curse do that in 3.5 sec without any requirements.

Sugaroverdose

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

This was in a 1v1, I'm at 26k physical resist (major resolve from Shadow Barrier, minor resolve (and Major Evasion) from Mirage, Blood Spawn proc, 5 heavy) and 3.5k crit resist (5 impen+Transmutation proc.) It's even worse against magic Templars--I'm convinced nobody at ZOS checked to see how insane Backlash+Soul Assault+Radiant Oppression would be before pushing this to live.

At least it's single target

Cinbri

9203 damage from Backlash means in previous 6seconds you received ~23000 damage. It is already overkill, and given how much damage you ate with your parameters - enemy didn't even reacched cap as it should hit for ~11k damage.
Grim Focus might take couple more seconds to activate but will hit for same numbers while doesn't require to store damage, proced Frags with you parameters(in case you have at least 50 points into physical resistance CP) will hit you for 8k without require to store damage along with new unblockable Curse.
Suggestion: stop looking on magplar as "no damage healbot" and on stamplar as "useless stamina build".

Soris

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

This was in a 1v1, I'm at 26k physical resist (major resolve from Shadow Barrier, minor resolve (and Major Evasion) from Mirage, Blood Spawn proc, 5 heavy) and 3.5k crit resist (5 impen+Transmutation proc.) It's even worse against magic Templars--I'm convinced nobody at ZOS checked to see how insane Backlash+Soul Assault+Radiant Oppression would be before pushing this to live.

Hmm i guess you havent seen the surprise attacks, dizzying swings, or frags hitting for same numbers and they are spamable. At least with this backlash you have 6 seconds of eternity to defend yourself before it explodes.

Boozdog

Pro tip: you can roll dodge the damge from it at the end of the 6 seconds

Boozdog

13.8k power of light if used in the right hands


http://imgur.com/a/C62oE

arkansas_ESO

Soris wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

This was in a 1v1, I'm at 26k physical resist (major resolve from Shadow Barrier, minor resolve (and Major Evasion) from Mirage, Blood Spawn proc, 5 heavy) and 3.5k crit resist (5 impen+Transmutation proc.) It's even worse against magic Templars--I'm convinced nobody at ZOS checked to see how insane Backlash+Soul Assault+Radiant Oppression would be before pushing this to live.

Hmm i guess you havent seen the surprise attacks, dizzying swings, or frags hitting for same numbers and they are spamable. At least with this backlash you have 6 seconds of eternity to defend yourself before it explodes.

You can time POTL to go off right after you hit somebody with Dizzying Swing and Dawnbreaker, it not being spammable isn't a weakness.

Cinbri wrote: »

9203 damage from Backlash means in previous 6seconds you received ~23000 damage. It is already overkill, and given how much damage you ate with your parameters - enemy didn't even reacched cap as it should hit for ~11k damage.
Grim Focus might take couple more seconds to activate but will hit for same numbers while doesn't require to store damage, proced Frags with you parameters(in case you have at least 50 points into physical resistance CP) will hit you for 8k without require to store damage along with new unblockable Curse.
Suggestion: stop looking on magplar as "no damage healbot" and on stamplar as "useless stamina build".

Should the class with the highest healing output, the best group heal, and the cheapest purge have high damage, though? If we gave stam NB a Breath of Life or Major Mending then that would be obviously broken, but we're cool with giving Templar a harder-hitting Curse?

mvffins

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Should the class with the highest healing output, the best group heal, and the cheapest purge have high damage, though? If we gave stam NB a Breath of Life or Major Mending then that would be obviously broken, but we're cool with giving Templar a harder-hitting Curse?

NB can heal a good amount with the right builds, its probably second in healing only to the templars. And no, Templar backlash is significantly less powerful than curse so it would be a low-hitting curse.

Its purgeable, it requires them to build up a lot of damage with other skills, the skill they usually would spam to build it up has recently been nerfed.....

Chuga_Rei

I tested up when I saw this thread and realized it wasn't sarcasm.

We made it templars!!! We president now!

Cinbri

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

This was in a 1v1, I'm at 26k physical resist (major resolve from Shadow Barrier, minor resolve (and Major Evasion) from Mirage, Blood Spawn proc, 5 heavy) and 3.5k crit resist (5 impen+Transmutation proc.) It's even worse against magic Templars--I'm convinced nobody at ZOS checked to see how insane Backlash+Soul Assault+Radiant Oppression would be before pushing this to live.

Hmm i guess you havent seen the surprise attacks, dizzying swings, or frags hitting for same numbers and they are spamable. At least with this backlash you have 6 seconds of eternity to defend yourself before it explodes.

You can time POTL to go off right after you hit somebody with Dizzying Swing and Dawnbreaker, it not being spammable isn't a weakness.

Cinbri wrote: »

9203 damage from Backlash means in previous 6seconds you received ~23000 damage. It is already overkill, and given how much damage you ate with your parameters - enemy didn't even reacched cap as it should hit for ~11k damage.
Grim Focus might take couple more seconds to activate but will hit for same numbers while doesn't require to store damage, proced Frags with you parameters(in case you have at least 50 points into physical resistance CP) will hit you for 8k without require to store damage along with new unblockable Curse.
Suggestion: stop looking on magplar as "no damage healbot" and on stamplar as "useless stamina build".

Should the class with the highest healing output, the best group heal, and the cheapest purge have high damage, though? If we gave stam NB a Breath of Life or Major Mending then that would be obviously broken, but we're cool with giving Templar a harder-hitting Curse?

You probably didn't know but mDK already have everything that possible to have.

pieratsos

Cinbri wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

This was in a 1v1, I'm at 26k physical resist (major resolve from Shadow Barrier, minor resolve (and Major Evasion) from Mirage, Blood Spawn proc, 5 heavy) and 3.5k crit resist (5 impen+Transmutation proc.) It's even worse against magic Templars--I'm convinced nobody at ZOS checked to see how insane Backlash+Soul Assault+Radiant Oppression would be before pushing this to live.

Hmm i guess you havent seen the surprise attacks, dizzying swings, or frags hitting for same numbers and they are spamable. At least with this backlash you have 6 seconds of eternity to defend yourself before it explodes.

You can time POTL to go off right after you hit somebody with Dizzying Swing and Dawnbreaker, it not being spammable isn't a weakness.

Cinbri wrote: »

9203 damage from Backlash means in previous 6seconds you received ~23000 damage. It is already overkill, and given how much damage you ate with your parameters - enemy didn't even reacched cap as it should hit for ~11k damage.
Grim Focus might take couple more seconds to activate but will hit for same numbers while doesn't require to store damage, proced Frags with you parameters(in case you have at least 50 points into physical resistance CP) will hit you for 8k without require to store damage along with new unblockable Curse.
Suggestion: stop looking on magplar as "no damage healbot" and on stamplar as "useless stamina build".

Should the class with the highest healing output, the best group heal, and the cheapest purge have high damage, though? If we gave stam NB a Breath of Life or Major Mending then that would be obviously broken, but we're cool with giving Templar a harder-hitting Curse?

You probably didn't know but mDK already have everything that possible to have.

Yeah. mDK has so many choices for burst that they dont even know what to use.

Cinbri

pieratsos wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

This was in a 1v1, I'm at 26k physical resist (major resolve from Shadow Barrier, minor resolve (and Major Evasion) from Mirage, Blood Spawn proc, 5 heavy) and 3.5k crit resist (5 impen+Transmutation proc.) It's even worse against magic Templars--I'm convinced nobody at ZOS checked to see how insane Backlash+Soul Assault+Radiant Oppression would be before pushing this to live.

Hmm i guess you havent seen the surprise attacks, dizzying swings, or frags hitting for same numbers and they are spamable. At least with this backlash you have 6 seconds of eternity to defend yourself before it explodes.

You can time POTL to go off right after you hit somebody with Dizzying Swing and Dawnbreaker, it not being spammable isn't a weakness.

Cinbri wrote: »

9203 damage from Backlash means in previous 6seconds you received ~23000 damage. It is already overkill, and given how much damage you ate with your parameters - enemy didn't even reacched cap as it should hit for ~11k damage.
Grim Focus might take couple more seconds to activate but will hit for same numbers while doesn't require to store damage, proced Frags with you parameters(in case you have at least 50 points into physical resistance CP) will hit you for 8k without require to store damage along with new unblockable Curse.
Suggestion: stop looking on magplar as "no damage healbot" and on stamplar as "useless stamina build".

Should the class with the highest healing output, the best group heal, and the cheapest purge have high damage, though? If we gave stam NB a Breath of Life or Major Mending then that would be obviously broken, but we're cool with giving Templar a harder-hitting Curse?

You probably didn't know but mDK already have everything that possible to have.

Yeah. mDK has so many choices for burst that they dont even know what to use.

I can't help with L2P issue.

timidobserver

I wish that there was 6 seconds to figure out how to react to proc builds.

arkansas_ESO

timidobserver wrote: »

I wish that there was 6 seconds to figure out how to react to proc builds.

You know that you can combo Backlash with proc sets, right?

mvffins wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Should the class with the highest healing output, the best group heal, and the cheapest purge have high damage, though? If we gave stam NB a Breath of Life or Major Mending then that would be obviously broken, but we're cool with giving Templar a harder-hitting Curse?

NB can heal a good amount with the right builds, its probably second in healing only to the templars. And no, Templar backlash is significantly less powerful than curse so it would be a low-hitting curse.

Its purgeable, it requires them to build up a lot of damage with other skills, the skill they usually would spam to build it up has recently been nerfed.....

I've never encountered a sorc that can hit 9k or 13k Curses, but people have posted both a 9k and a 13k Power of the Light in this thread alone.

On it being purgeable-you're correct, but the only purge that's cheap enough to be used frequently (like every six seconds) would be Templar's Purifying Ritual. So the best counter to Templar is to play Templar? Doesn't seem right.

Docmandu

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

So the best counter to Templar is to play Templar? Doesn't seem right.

*cough* Cloak -> Mark Target *cough*

Right is not in Wrobel's vocabulary.

pieratsos

Cinbri wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

This was in a 1v1, I'm at 26k physical resist (major resolve from Shadow Barrier, minor resolve (and Major Evasion) from Mirage, Blood Spawn proc, 5 heavy) and 3.5k crit resist (5 impen+Transmutation proc.) It's even worse against magic Templars--I'm convinced nobody at ZOS checked to see how insane Backlash+Soul Assault+Radiant Oppression would be before pushing this to live.

Hmm i guess you havent seen the surprise attacks, dizzying swings, or frags hitting for same numbers and they are spamable. At least with this backlash you have 6 seconds of eternity to defend yourself before it explodes.

You can time POTL to go off right after you hit somebody with Dizzying Swing and Dawnbreaker, it not being spammable isn't a weakness.

Cinbri wrote: »

9203 damage from Backlash means in previous 6seconds you received ~23000 damage. It is already overkill, and given how much damage you ate with your parameters - enemy didn't even reacched cap as it should hit for ~11k damage.
Grim Focus might take couple more seconds to activate but will hit for same numbers while doesn't require to store damage, proced Frags with you parameters(in case you have at least 50 points into physical resistance CP) will hit you for 8k without require to store damage along with new unblockable Curse.
Suggestion: stop looking on magplar as "no damage healbot" and on stamplar as "useless stamina build".

Should the class with the highest healing output, the best group heal, and the cheapest purge have high damage, though? If we gave stam NB a Breath of Life or Major Mending then that would be obviously broken, but we're cool with giving Templar a harder-hitting Curse?

You probably didn't know but mDK already have everything that possible to have.

Yeah. mDK has so many choices for burst that they dont even know what to use.

I can't help with L2P issue.

Nah its not a L2P issue. You are just spreading misinformation. A class being good doesnt mean that it has everything. mDK doesnt have burst or purge. Thats a fact.

Alcast

Boozdog wrote: »

Pro tip: you can roll dodge the damge from it at the end of the 6 seconds

That is interesting.... and kinda dumb... xD

Also just stack stamina up to 60k and yo good to go

Cinbri

pieratsos wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

This was in a 1v1, I'm at 26k physical resist (major resolve from Shadow Barrier, minor resolve (and Major Evasion) from Mirage, Blood Spawn proc, 5 heavy) and 3.5k crit resist (5 impen+Transmutation proc.) It's even worse against magic Templars--I'm convinced nobody at ZOS checked to see how insane Backlash+Soul Assault+Radiant Oppression would be before pushing this to live.

Hmm i guess you havent seen the surprise attacks, dizzying swings, or frags hitting for same numbers and they are spamable. At least with this backlash you have 6 seconds of eternity to defend yourself before it explodes.

You can time POTL to go off right after you hit somebody with Dizzying Swing and Dawnbreaker, it not being spammable isn't a weakness.

Cinbri wrote: »

9203 damage from Backlash means in previous 6seconds you received ~23000 damage. It is already overkill, and given how much damage you ate with your parameters - enemy didn't even reacched cap as it should hit for ~11k damage.
Grim Focus might take couple more seconds to activate but will hit for same numbers while doesn't require to store damage, proced Frags with you parameters(in case you have at least 50 points into physical resistance CP) will hit you for 8k without require to store damage along with new unblockable Curse.
Suggestion: stop looking on magplar as "no damage healbot" and on stamplar as "useless stamina build".

Should the class with the highest healing output, the best group heal, and the cheapest purge have high damage, though? If we gave stam NB a Breath of Life or Major Mending then that would be obviously broken, but we're cool with giving Templar a harder-hitting Curse?

You probably didn't know but mDK already have everything that possible to have.

Yeah. mDK has so many choices for burst that they dont even know what to use.

I can't help with L2P issue.

Nah its not a L2P issue. You are just spreading misinformation. A class being good doesnt mean that it has everything. mDK doesnt have burst or purge. Thats a fact.

We were talking about damage capability, not about "burst damage". At least read thread before reply.

pieratsos

Cinbri wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

This was in a 1v1, I'm at 26k physical resist (major resolve from Shadow Barrier, minor resolve (and Major Evasion) from Mirage, Blood Spawn proc, 5 heavy) and 3.5k crit resist (5 impen+Transmutation proc.) It's even worse against magic Templars--I'm convinced nobody at ZOS checked to see how insane Backlash+Soul Assault+Radiant Oppression would be before pushing this to live.

Hmm i guess you havent seen the surprise attacks, dizzying swings, or frags hitting for same numbers and they are spamable. At least with this backlash you have 6 seconds of eternity to defend yourself before it explodes.

You can time POTL to go off right after you hit somebody with Dizzying Swing and Dawnbreaker, it not being spammable isn't a weakness.

Cinbri wrote: »

9203 damage from Backlash means in previous 6seconds you received ~23000 damage. It is already overkill, and given how much damage you ate with your parameters - enemy didn't even reacched cap as it should hit for ~11k damage.
Grim Focus might take couple more seconds to activate but will hit for same numbers while doesn't require to store damage, proced Frags with you parameters(in case you have at least 50 points into physical resistance CP) will hit you for 8k without require to store damage along with new unblockable Curse.
Suggestion: stop looking on magplar as "no damage healbot" and on stamplar as "useless stamina build".

Should the class with the highest healing output, the best group heal, and the cheapest purge have high damage, though? If we gave stam NB a Breath of Life or Major Mending then that would be obviously broken, but we're cool with giving Templar a harder-hitting Curse?

You probably didn't know but mDK already have everything that possible to have.

Yeah. mDK has so many choices for burst that they dont even know what to use.

I can't help with L2P issue.

Nah its not a L2P issue. You are just spreading misinformation. A class being good doesnt mean that it has everything. mDK doesnt have burst or purge. Thats a fact.

We were talking about damage capability, not about "burst damage". At least read thread before reply.

I can read perfectly fine. You just need to make up ur mind. First you say everything, now its just dmg?
Backlash gives burst potential not just more dmg. And if the talk was just about dmg capability then templars are fine with or without backlash. So whats ur point?
If you want to go into specifics and word by word tho its fine. Someone told you templars shouldnt have that burst potential or high dmg (call it whatever u want) cause they excel at something else. Highest healing output, best group heal, cheapest purge. And then you replied mDK have everything. But they dont have group heals, or purge and while they can do high dmg like every other class, they still have the lowest burst potential. Its prety clear that mDK dont have everything so again. You are just spreading misinformation.

ku5h

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I wish that there was 6 seconds to figure out how to react to proc builds.

You know that you can combo Backlash with proc sets, right?

mvffins wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Should the class with the highest healing output, the best group heal, and the cheapest purge have high damage, though? If we gave stam NB a Breath of Life or Major Mending then that would be obviously broken, but we're cool with giving Templar a harder-hitting Curse?

NB can heal a good amount with the right builds, its probably second in healing only to the templars. And no, Templar backlash is significantly less powerful than curse so it would be a low-hitting curse.

Its purgeable, it requires them to build up a lot of damage with other skills, the skill they usually would spam to build it up has recently been nerfed.....

I've never encountered a sorc that can hit 9k or 13k Curses, but people have posted both a 9k and a 13k Power of the Light in this thread alone.

On it being purgeable-you're correct, but the only purge that's cheap enough to be used frequently (like every six seconds) would be Templar's Purifying Ritual. So the best counter to Templar is to play Templar? Doesn't seem right.

Are you really comparing Curse to Backlash. Curse is a 3.5 sec apply and forget, while Backlash is 6 sec and you need to build up *** ton of dmg to get big numbers. Curse is far better skill in evey way possible.

Cinbri

pieratsos wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

This was in a 1v1, I'm at 26k physical resist (major resolve from Shadow Barrier, minor resolve (and Major Evasion) from Mirage, Blood Spawn proc, 5 heavy) and 3.5k crit resist (5 impen+Transmutation proc.) It's even worse against magic Templars--I'm convinced nobody at ZOS checked to see how insane Backlash+Soul Assault+Radiant Oppression would be before pushing this to live.

Hmm i guess you havent seen the surprise attacks, dizzying swings, or frags hitting for same numbers and they are spamable. At least with this backlash you have 6 seconds of eternity to defend yourself before it explodes.

You can time POTL to go off right after you hit somebody with Dizzying Swing and Dawnbreaker, it not being spammable isn't a weakness.

Cinbri wrote: »

9203 damage from Backlash means in previous 6seconds you received ~23000 damage. It is already overkill, and given how much damage you ate with your parameters - enemy didn't even reacched cap as it should hit for ~11k damage.
Grim Focus might take couple more seconds to activate but will hit for same numbers while doesn't require to store damage, proced Frags with you parameters(in case you have at least 50 points into physical resistance CP) will hit you for 8k without require to store damage along with new unblockable Curse.
Suggestion: stop looking on magplar as "no damage healbot" and on stamplar as "useless stamina build".

Should the class with the highest healing output, the best group heal, and the cheapest purge have high damage, though? If we gave stam NB a Breath of Life or Major Mending then that would be obviously broken, but we're cool with giving Templar a harder-hitting Curse?

You probably didn't know but mDK already have everything that possible to have.

Yeah. mDK has so many choices for burst that they dont even know what to use.

I can't help with L2P issue.

Nah its not a L2P issue. You are just spreading misinformation. A class being good doesnt mean that it has everything. mDK doesnt have burst or purge. Thats a fact.

We were talking about damage capability, not about "burst damage". At least read thread before reply.

I can read perfectly fine. You just need to make up ur mind. First you say everything, now its just dmg?
Backlash gives burst potential not just more dmg. And if the talk was just about dmg capability then templars are fine with or without backlash. So whats ur point?
If you want to go into specifics and word by word tho its fine. Someone told you templars shouldnt have that burst potential or high dmg (call it whatever u want) cause they excel at something else. Highest healing output, best group heal, cheapest purge. And then you replied mDK have everything. But they dont have group heals, or purge and while they can do high dmg like every other class, they still have the lowest burst potential. Its prety clear that mDK dont have everything so again. You are just spreading misinformation.

1. I didn't said anything about Backlash being balance-killing burst ability. So maybe you must ask someone else about "points" of why it balance-killing burst ability? Templar have execute for 1.5 year already that could tick for super high numbers. So , using now theeme "healer or dd" is not viable point.
2. Maybe read part about NB again and guess meaning beside it and don't try to comment quotes partly, out of context? Dk have high damage, strong heal that almost as strong as templar's heal, major mending buff, that claimed to be iconic templar passive and Burning Heart passive. Best of two worlds. Burst damage is not only thing that can kill enemeis in pvp, and DK damage is much higher than templar's.
3. Don't trying to derive thread by claimes that were said nowhere beside your imagination. Maybe create your own thread for dk?
I never understood people that have nothing to say but feel themselves obligated to do it.

Alcast wrote: »

Boozdog wrote: »

Pro tip: you can roll dodge the damge from it at the end of the 6 seconds

That is interesting.... and kinda dumb... xD

Also just stack stamina up to 60k and yo good to go

Damage will be same as before fix as it going on ps4 now.

But it means once again it mean you must deal like 50k damage in 6 seconds.

Joy_Division

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Should the class with the highest healing output, the best group heal, and the cheapest purge have high damage, though? If we gave stam NB a Breath of Life or Major Mending then that would be obviously broken, but we're cool with giving Templar a harder-hitting Curse?

First of all, I would trade Backlash for Curse is a blink of an eye and not think twice about it. Curse can crit and I've gotten 9k curses and I'm not even one of those sorcs that stack 50K+ magicka. Curse explodes faster, can't be blocked, and doesn't require me to do a crapton of damage in 6 seconds to actually get that 9K figure

Second of all, the narrative that templars are somehow uniquely gifted in high self-healing is nonsense. Every halfway decent stam build through vigor and rally will output more self-healing per second than my templar, particularly that very same stam NB you lament about because of its easy access to heal debuffs. Stam sorc Dark Deal is a burst heal which also restores a primary resource. DKs new Dragonblood toy is just as high as BoL and is actually a guaranteed self-heal, and a sorc shield stacking gives them a higher effective health pool than templars. Also Healing Ward is a superior heal to breath of life; it does require a resto staff which is why most templars wont use it in cyrodiil (but the do use it in PvE content such as vet Maelstrom).

What templars can do that the other classes can't is heal others, which is something that many templars couldnt give a hoot about because it is of absolutely zero use in say a 1v1 against say a mDK who will out heal us because of dragonblood, embers, whips, etc., or vs. your typical Rally-Vigor stam dizzy blow spamming proctard.

Since you seem to want templars to be nothing but impotent healbots, that's fine, we'll be healbots. But when you take away templars ability to actually do damage, then fair is fair and take away the vigor+rally combo that accompanies the ridiculous burst damage for stamina, strip away shield stacking on sorcs, revert the Dragonblood back to its uselessness, and dont allow Mageblades to use healing ward.

Chuga_Rei

Joy I'm your biggest fan. Will you write work emails for me?

pieratsos

Cinbri wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

This was in a 1v1, I'm at 26k physical resist (major resolve from Shadow Barrier, minor resolve (and Major Evasion) from Mirage, Blood Spawn proc, 5 heavy) and 3.5k crit resist (5 impen+Transmutation proc.) It's even worse against magic Templars--I'm convinced nobody at ZOS checked to see how insane Backlash+Soul Assault+Radiant Oppression would be before pushing this to live.

Hmm i guess you havent seen the surprise attacks, dizzying swings, or frags hitting for same numbers and they are spamable. At least with this backlash you have 6 seconds of eternity to defend yourself before it explodes.

You can time POTL to go off right after you hit somebody with Dizzying Swing and Dawnbreaker, it not being spammable isn't a weakness.

Cinbri wrote: »

9203 damage from Backlash means in previous 6seconds you received ~23000 damage. It is already overkill, and given how much damage you ate with your parameters - enemy didn't even reacched cap as it should hit for ~11k damage.
Grim Focus might take couple more seconds to activate but will hit for same numbers while doesn't require to store damage, proced Frags with you parameters(in case you have at least 50 points into physical resistance CP) will hit you for 8k without require to store damage along with new unblockable Curse.
Suggestion: stop looking on magplar as "no damage healbot" and on stamplar as "useless stamina build".

Should the class with the highest healing output, the best group heal, and the cheapest purge have high damage, though? If we gave stam NB a Breath of Life or Major Mending then that would be obviously broken, but we're cool with giving Templar a harder-hitting Curse?

You probably didn't know but mDK already have everything that possible to have.

Yeah. mDK has so many choices for burst that they dont even know what to use.

I can't help with L2P issue.

Nah its not a L2P issue. You are just spreading misinformation. A class being good doesnt mean that it has everything. mDK doesnt have burst or purge. Thats a fact.

We were talking about damage capability, not about "burst damage". At least read thread before reply.

I can read perfectly fine. You just need to make up ur mind. First you say everything, now its just dmg?
Backlash gives burst potential not just more dmg. And if the talk was just about dmg capability then templars are fine with or without backlash. So whats ur point?
If you want to go into specifics and word by word tho its fine. Someone told you templars shouldnt have that burst potential or high dmg (call it whatever u want) cause they excel at something else. Highest healing output, best group heal, cheapest purge. And then you replied mDK have everything. But they dont have group heals, or purge and while they can do high dmg like every other class, they still have the lowest burst potential. Its prety clear that mDK dont have everything so again. You are just spreading misinformation.

1. I didn't said anything about Backlash being balance-killing burst ability. So maybe you must ask someone else about "points" of why it balance-killing burst ability? Templar have execute for 1.5 year already that could tick for super high numbers. So , using now theeme "healer or dd" is not viable point.
2. Maybe read part about NB again and guess meaning beside it and don't try to comment quotes partly, out of context? Dk have high damage, strong heal that almost as strong as templar's heal, major mending buff, that claimed to be iconic templar passive and Burning Heart passive. Best of two worlds. Burst damage is not only thing that can kill enemeis in pvp, and DK damage is much higher than templar's.
3. Don't trying to derive thread by claimes that were said nowhere beside your imagination. Maybe create your own thread for dk?
I never understood people that have nothing to say but feel themselves obligated to do it.

Alcast wrote: »

Boozdog wrote: »

Pro tip: you can roll dodge the damge from it at the end of the 6 seconds

That is interesting.... and kinda dumb... xD

Also just stack stamina up to 60k and yo good to go

Damage will be same as before fix as it going on ps4 now.

But it means once again it mean you must deal like 50k damage in 6 seconds.

Hm? I read the NB part. What about it? The guy u were replying to just made a point that some classes excel at something so they should have weaknesses. Nightblades have burst so they lack healing. Templars have strong healing and purge so they dont have the burst of sorcs or NB. Thats what he said and thats why he didnt like the change to backlash. Cause it gives templars burst potential that they shouldnt have. And u responded to that by saying DKs have everything. Its not my imagination. You said it.

Cinbri wrote: »

You probably didn't know but mDK already have everything that possible to have.

Im not trying to derive the thread. You are the one trying to derive from what you said cause you know you are wrong. Im not talking about which class is the best and comparing which one has the highest dmg. It doesnt matter if DKs have higher dmg. They still dont have purge. They still dont have burst. They dont have everything. Its very simple. I know it and you know it so why are you still arguing about it.
Never understood people that clearly know that they are wrong and yet still trying to argue as if its going to ruin their image.

usmcjdking

Templars are in a good and balanced spot right now. There are still a few skills that need to be looked at namely Eclipse (which I still contend should silence if it will remain break free-able) and Luminous Shards.

arkansas_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Should the class with the highest healing output, the best group heal, and the cheapest purge have high damage, though? If we gave stam NB a Breath of Life or Major Mending then that would be obviously broken, but we're cool with giving Templar a harder-hitting Curse?

First of all, I would trade Backlash for Curse is a blink of an eye and not think twice about it. Curse can crit and I've gotten 9k curses and I'm not even one of those sorcs that stack 50K+ magicka. Curse explodes faster, can't be blocked, and doesn't require me to do a crapton of damage in 6 seconds to actually get that 9K figure

Second of all, the narrative that templars are somehow uniquely gifted in high self-healing is nonsense. Every halfway decent stam build through vigor and rally will output more self-healing per second than my templar, particularly that very same stam NB you lament about because of its easy access to heal debuffs. Stam sorc Dark Deal is a burst heal which also restores a primary resource. DKs new Dragonblood toy is just as high as BoL and is actually a guaranteed self-heal, and a sorc shield stacking gives them a higher effective health pool than templars. Also Healing Ward is a superior heal to breath of life; it does require a resto staff which is why most templars wont use it in cyrodiil (but the do use it in PvE content such as vet Maelstrom).

What templars can do that the other classes can't is heal others, which is something that many templars couldnt give a hoot about because it is of absolutely zero use in say a 1v1 against say a mDK who will out heal us because of dragonblood, embers, whips, etc., or vs. your typical Rally-Vigor stam dizzy blow spamming proctard.

Since you seem to want templars to be nothing but impotent healbots, that's fine, we'll be healbots. But when you take away templars ability to actually do damage, then fair is fair and take away the vigor+rally combo that accompanies the ridiculous burst damage for stamina, strip away shield stacking on sorcs, revert the Dragonblood back to its uselessness, and dont allow Mageblades to use healing ward.

The game isn't balanced around 1v1s, though, so you can't just ignore the fact that Templar is the best support class. Should a class with the best support and some of the best defenses also have some of the best burst damage?

Also, to say that Templars would be nothing but impotent healbots without the new Backlash is simply wrong--they've still got the best execute in the game, and even after the nerfs Radiant Oppression melts people.

pieratsos

Joy_Division wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Should the class with the highest healing output, the best group heal, and the cheapest purge have high damage, though? If we gave stam NB a Breath of Life or Major Mending then that would be obviously broken, but we're cool with giving Templar a harder-hitting Curse?

First of all, I would trade Backlash for Curse is a blink of an eye and not think twice about it. Curse can crit and I've gotten 9k curses and I'm not even one of those sorcs that stack 50K+ magicka. Curse explodes faster, can't be blocked, and doesn't require me to do a crapton of damage in 6 seconds to actually get that 9K figure

Second of all, the narrative that templars are somehow uniquely gifted in high self-healing is nonsense. Every halfway decent stam build through vigor and rally will output more self-healing per second than my templar, particularly that very same stam NB you lament about because of its easy access to heal debuffs. Stam sorc Dark Deal is a burst heal which also restores a primary resource. DKs new Dragonblood toy is just as high as BoL and is actually a guaranteed self-heal, and a sorc shield stacking gives them a higher effective health pool than templars. Also Healing Ward is a superior heal to breath of life; it does require a resto staff which is why most templars wont use it in cyrodiil (but the do use it in PvE content such as vet Maelstrom).

What templars can do that the other classes can't is heal others, which is something that many templars couldnt give a hoot about because it is of absolutely zero use in say a 1v1 against say a mDK who will out heal us because of dragonblood, embers, whips, etc., or vs. your typical Rally-Vigor stam dizzy blow spamming proctard.

Since you seem to want templars to be nothing but impotent healbots, that's fine, we'll be healbots. But when you take away templars ability to actually do damage, then fair is fair and take away the vigor+rally combo that accompanies the ridiculous burst damage for stamina, strip away shield stacking on sorcs, revert the Dragonblood back to its uselessness, and dont allow Mageblades to use healing ward.

So you are saying backlash is the only way for templars to do dmg?

timidobserver

pieratsos wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Should the class with the highest healing output, the best group heal, and the cheapest purge have high damage, though? If we gave stam NB a Breath of Life or Major Mending then that would be obviously broken, but we're cool with giving Templar a harder-hitting Curse?

First of all, I would trade Backlash for Curse is a blink of an eye and not think twice about it. Curse can crit and I've gotten 9k curses and I'm not even one of those sorcs that stack 50K+ magicka. Curse explodes faster, can't be blocked, and doesn't require me to do a crapton of damage in 6 seconds to actually get that 9K figure

Second of all, the narrative that templars are somehow uniquely gifted in high self-healing is nonsense. Every halfway decent stam build through vigor and rally will output more self-healing per second than my templar, particularly that very same stam NB you lament about because of its easy access to heal debuffs. Stam sorc Dark Deal is a burst heal which also restores a primary resource. DKs new Dragonblood toy is just as high as BoL and is actually a guaranteed self-heal, and a sorc shield stacking gives them a higher effective health pool than templars. Also Healing Ward is a superior heal to breath of life; it does require a resto staff which is why most templars wont use it in cyrodiil (but the do use it in PvE content such as vet Maelstrom).

What templars can do that the other classes can't is heal others, which is something that many templars couldnt give a hoot about because it is of absolutely zero use in say a 1v1 against say a mDK who will out heal us because of dragonblood, embers, whips, etc., or vs. your typical Rally-Vigor stam dizzy blow spamming proctard.

Since you seem to want templars to be nothing but impotent healbots, that's fine, we'll be healbots. But when you take away templars ability to actually do damage, then fair is fair and take away the vigor+rally combo that accompanies the ridiculous burst damage for stamina, strip away shield stacking on sorcs, revert the Dragonblood back to its uselessness, and dont allow Mageblades to use healing ward.

So you are saying backlash is the only way for templars to do dmg?

Backlash is probably the most effective way we have to deal with permablockers thanks for the blazing spear nerf.

Joy_Division

pieratsos wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Should the class with the highest healing output, the best group heal, and the cheapest purge have high damage, though? If we gave stam NB a Breath of Life or Major Mending then that would be obviously broken, but we're cool with giving Templar a harder-hitting Curse?

First of all, I would trade Backlash for Curse is a blink of an eye and not think twice about it. Curse can crit and I've gotten 9k curses and I'm not even one of those sorcs that stack 50K+ magicka. Curse explodes faster, can't be blocked, and doesn't require me to do a crapton of damage in 6 seconds to actually get that 9K figure

Second of all, the narrative that templars are somehow uniquely gifted in high self-healing is nonsense. Every halfway decent stam build through vigor and rally will output more self-healing per second than my templar, particularly that very same stam NB you lament about because of its easy access to heal debuffs. Stam sorc Dark Deal is a burst heal which also restores a primary resource. DKs new Dragonblood toy is just as high as BoL and is actually a guaranteed self-heal, and a sorc shield stacking gives them a higher effective health pool than templars. Also Healing Ward is a superior heal to breath of life; it does require a resto staff which is why most templars wont use it in cyrodiil (but the do use it in PvE content such as vet Maelstrom).

What templars can do that the other classes can't is heal others, which is something that many templars couldnt give a hoot about because it is of absolutely zero use in say a 1v1 against say a mDK who will out heal us because of dragonblood, embers, whips, etc., or vs. your typical Rally-Vigor stam dizzy blow spamming proctard.

Since you seem to want templars to be nothing but impotent healbots, that's fine, we'll be healbots. But when you take away templars ability to actually do damage, then fair is fair and take away the vigor+rally combo that accompanies the ridiculous burst damage for stamina, strip away shield stacking on sorcs, revert the Dragonblood back to its uselessness, and dont allow Mageblades to use healing ward.

So you are saying backlash is the only way for templars to do dmg?

No. I believe I made it quite clear what I did say.

pieratsos

Joy_Division wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Should the class with the highest healing output, the best group heal, and the cheapest purge have high damage, though? If we gave stam NB a Breath of Life or Major Mending then that would be obviously broken, but we're cool with giving Templar a harder-hitting Curse?

First of all, I would trade Backlash for Curse is a blink of an eye and not think twice about it. Curse can crit and I've gotten 9k curses and I'm not even one of those sorcs that stack 50K+ magicka. Curse explodes faster, can't be blocked, and doesn't require me to do a crapton of damage in 6 seconds to actually get that 9K figure

Second of all, the narrative that templars are somehow uniquely gifted in high self-healing is nonsense. Every halfway decent stam build through vigor and rally will output more self-healing per second than my templar, particularly that very same stam NB you lament about because of its easy access to heal debuffs. Stam sorc Dark Deal is a burst heal which also restores a primary resource. DKs new Dragonblood toy is just as high as BoL and is actually a guaranteed self-heal, and a sorc shield stacking gives them a higher effective health pool than templars. Also Healing Ward is a superior heal to breath of life; it does require a resto staff which is why most templars wont use it in cyrodiil (but the do use it in PvE content such as vet Maelstrom).

What templars can do that the other classes can't is heal others, which is something that many templars couldnt give a hoot about because it is of absolutely zero use in say a 1v1 against say a mDK who will out heal us because of dragonblood, embers, whips, etc., or vs. your typical Rally-Vigor stam dizzy blow spamming proctard.

Since you seem to want templars to be nothing but impotent healbots, that's fine, we'll be healbots. But when you take away templars ability to actually do damage, then fair is fair and take away the vigor+rally combo that accompanies the ridiculous burst damage for stamina, strip away shield stacking on sorcs, revert the Dragonblood back to its uselessness, and dont allow Mageblades to use healing ward.

So you are saying backlash is the only way for templars to do dmg?

No. I believe I made it quite clear what I did say.

You said "when you take away templars ability to actually do dmg". But no one asked for such thing. Templars without backlash is certainly not the same as sorcs without shields, DKs without a heal etc.