justice system is disempowering, unenjoyable

Rev Rielle

I agree; the "justice system is disempowering, unenjoyable". But I find it so because I'm tired of players stealing and killing NPCs right under my character's nose and my character is unable to do a single thing about it.

I don't expect to suddenly be able to engage in dueling or PvP in the middle of a PvE area, but there must be something that can be done. It's just so one sided right now. Even just the ability to identify the thief so they're no longer hiding-in-plain-sight would be something.

Sovjet

I like it as it is, if you can kill the guards you kill them all as a nightblade in 20 seconds and then you can steal for 10 minutes until they respawn no thx!

TheShadowScout

Sausage wrote: »

Its not that bad for MMORPG, but I agree. Ive suggested that some players should be Guards, so Criminals and Guards play cat and mouse game, both trying to find or avoid each other and Guards can tackle them and put them in cuffs and walk them to the NPC Guards...

Yeah, and that was what they originally had planned from all we heard... sadly... they changed their plans.

Rev Rielle wrote: »

I agree; the "justice system is disempowering, unenjoyable". But I find it so because I'm tired of players stealing and killing NPCs right under my character's nose and my character is unable to do a single thing about it.

I don't expect to suddenly be able to engage in dueling or PvP in the middle of a PvE area, but there must be something that can be done. It's just so one sided right now. Even just the ability to identify the thief so they're no longer hiding-in-plain-sight would be something.

I agree with that one. I have some criminal characters and some honest characters... and my honest ones totally would want to help the city guard take down criminals if that was possible. Or call the city guard when they see someone comitting a crime.
Heck, I even would love them doing it on NPC criminals if there were some, just for the "justice served" roleplay immersion! I really wouldn't mind iof there was some PvE "enforcers guild" option... like,t maybe one I had been thinking about a while back: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/306759/additional-guild-ideas

But alas...

hmsdragonfly

Sausage wrote: »

Its not that bad for MMORPG, but I agree. Ive suggested that some players should be Guards, so Criminals and Guards play cat and mouse game, both trying to find or avoid each other and Guards can tackle them and put them in cuffs and walk them to the NPC Guards.

Btw, I wonder if we get Thief 2 one day.

They thought about that but scrapped the idea, because they don't want to force PvP on players.

Tommy_The_Gun

Vipstaakki wrote: »

This sounds like a learn to sneak issue.

It is more than that. I have no problems with sneak, even without medium armour and some skill points put in to Legerdemain (Improved Hiding).

The problem usually is "server" lag (when there is like a 1 - 0,5 sec delay, so on "server" NPC can see you, and on your side - you are sneaking ) - and that leads to strange, sometimes irritating situations when for example NPC can spot you through a wall, or when you are suddenly seen "precisely" in a moment when you pickpocket / steal something and your bounty increase and then you go back to stealth...

So the problem lies not in justice system, but rather in sneaking mechanism.

theher0not

I also really dislike that I get a bounty even if I kill an NPC where noone sees me doing it and how the game treats killing in self defence (50% of the time it is treated as murder, even when there are no witnesses, and the rest of the time it is fine). Both these things are really poorly designed, and it feels like the devs didn't put any time into making it somewhat fair.

Sausage

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Its not that bad for MMORPG, but I agree. Ive suggested that some players should be Guards, so Criminals and Guards play cat and mouse game, both trying to find or avoid each other and Guards can tackle them and put them in cuffs and walk them to the NPC Guards.

Btw, I wonder if we get Thief 2 one day.

They thought about that but scrapped the idea, because they don't want to force PvP on players.

My idea wasnt the original idea, the original idea was that Guards hunts Criminals as they see them, kind of massive two team deathmatch, I created my idea as I didnt want to see it turning into one. I really thikn my idea is 1000 time better, I really dont want to see zones turning into bloodbath. Yeah, non-combat cat and mouse play, sounds much more suitable for ESO.

STEVIL

kratier wrote: »

not once did i say the game's justice system should revolve around fighting guards, i said you should have the option to
you just keep going on and on about that, like missing any point im trying to make

From your opening post where you griped about the invulnerable guard and not fighting guards no fewer than four times...

guards are unkillable, ...
... the fact they are just static , unkillable, god-like avatars administering justice
... and for that guard to be invulnerable, totally breaks the enjoyment of the game for me.
... you have the option to fight them but then they out number you

yes you do not say the words "it should revolve around fighting the guards" but it seems to be a significant part of your problem with the system now.

How did you describe that one element "and for that guard to be invulnerable, totally breaks the enjoyment of the game for me."

Note that i did not say you were wanting it to "revolve around fighting" either.

You did go on about chase scenes and hiding from them in other games but frankly that is how you deal with the guards now. You run away from them, you break LOS long enough for them to lose you and turn back, you use magic to help you on this with invis/immov etc and in some cases there are places you can hide from them until they go away.

So, while the other games may do different looks of chases etc, this game has chases.
This game has opportunities to "intimidate/bluff" the guard with clemency to let you go or fake pardons to get you out of hot water.

So it seems like several of the things you mention right off the bat - the game has... maybe not up to your exacting standards of excellence but it has them.

But the one you mention repeatedly - four times - that it doesn't have at all - is the fight the guard option.

And thats the one you insist this isn't about?

Even if they do everything else... you already said the guard being unkillable will totally break the game enjoyment.

But its not about killing guards, right?