Zergs are still a big issue in PvP.

Barbardin

Dear ZoS.
As a player, who has been enjoying this game for the last year I should say (not just me alone). That zerging is still a big issue, it is annoying, it is stupid, it ruins the fan for more of us. When the group of 20-60 people running around in trains, spamming single button and killing everything on it way with no fear, sieges can't even hurt this kind of groups (the damage is laughable). Right now the only possible way to deal with such groups is to create another large group and do the same (Is it fun?).
Most of us players were suggesting the solutions and again I will type mine own! So read carefully.

1. This is the first game I play where AOE skills do more dps than single target skills. So my suggestion will be to lower damage on the players when using aoe skills.
2. Sieges vs players is a joke! Please buff sieges vs large groups. More you hit more damage you cause! Buff meat bags catapult so it would reduce healing by 80%.
3. Make NEW SIEGE weapon which can just SILENCE players for 6 seconds, or some kind of items that you must cast on zerg groups.
4. Massive sneak does not work. More players stand on m2 better you can detect those groups.

So what do you think? And I apologize for my english.

IxSTALKERxI

Barbardin wrote: »

1. This is the first game I play where AOE skills do more dps than single target skills. So my suggestion will be to lower damage on the players when using aoe skills.

AOE skills only do more dps if you are attacking multiple opponents. This suggestion to make them less effective makes zergs worse.

HoloYoitsu

Barbardin wrote: »

1. This is the first game I play where AOE skills do more dps than single target skills. So my suggestion will be to lower damage on the players when using aoe skills.

You complain about high aoe dps...

Barbardin wrote: »

2. Sieges vs players is a joke! Please buff sieges vs large groups. More you hit more damage you cause! Buff meat bags catapult so it would reduce healing by 80%.

Yet you want to increase siege aoe dmg to absurd levels?

The number one problem with the game's design that has resulted in pushing everyone to zerg play is that ZOS has consistently nerfed mechanics, skills, and sets that helped people fight, sustain and stay alive against greater numbers, while upping the aoe dps that individuals can poop out to absurd levels.

thankyourat

Siege weapons hit pretty hard in PvP the reason it doesn't seem that way when hitting a large group is because of how much healing they have. If you make them stronger it would only hurt small groups. The only way I feel like you can deal with zergs in this game is to give people a reason to spread out. Or make it to where if you stack your whole faction in one place is detrimental. Right now it's not enough penalty for fraction stacking players can travel so fast that they can always prevent you from back dooring a keep

Barbardin

thankyourat wrote: »

Siege weapons hit pretty hard in PvP the reason it doesn't seem that way when hitting a large group is because of how much healing they have. If you make them stronger it would only hurt small groups. The only way I feel like you can deal with zergs in this game is to give people a reason to spread out. Or make it to where if you stack your whole faction in one place is detrimental. Right now it's not enough penalty for fraction stacking players can travel so fast that they can always prevent you from back dooring a keep

What I just said about numbers?! This is kind of suggestion to make people spread and not run in big zerg ball. Also I said make a new siege which will silence this groups.

Barbardin

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

1. This is the first game I play where AOE skills do more dps than single target skills. So my suggestion will be to lower damage on the players when using aoe skills.

You complain about high aoe dps...

Barbardin wrote: »

2. Sieges vs players is a joke! Please buff sieges vs large groups. More you hit more damage you cause! Buff meat bags catapult so it would reduce healing by 80%.

Yet you want to increase siege aoe dmg to absurd levels?

The number one problem with the game's design that has resulted in pushing everyone to zerg play is that ZOS has consistently nerfed mechanics, skills, and sets that helped people fight, sustain and stay alive against greater numbers, while upping the aoe dps that individuals can poop out to absurd levels.

I was considering sieges to be the mass aoe dps in this game! If you want to bomb people, place sieges, which can be easily destroyed! Not to run in numbers and push single button!

IxSTALKERxI

Siege does like 20% -35% less damage in CP campaigns compared to Azura's Star, depending on how many CP you put in elemental defender and thick skinned. Siege does not need to be buffed though, it just needs to be made so it is not mitigated by CP so it is more consistent against the whole player base across all campaigns.

Barbardin

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Siege does like 20% -35% less damage in CP campaigns compared to Azura's Star, depending on how many CP you put in elemental defender and thick skinned. Siege does not need to be buffed though, it just needs to be made so it is not mitigated by CP so it is more consistent against the whole player base across all campaigns.

New sieges! Poison sieges! Reduce the Stamina and increase the cost of stamina and magica abilities, that might help too!

DannyLV702

Zergs are not an issue. The game was meant for zerging. The issue is the fact that the servers can't handle the zergs.

Barbardin

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Zergs are not an issue. The game was meant for zerging. The issue is the fact that the servers can't handle the zergs.

Oh so seeing people run in 20-60, spamming one single button is fun? And meet well geared groups is so much fun as a new players! Yeah, no wonders new players leave after month of playing the game... I got whole friend list of such players... about 20-30 for sure.

I was taking part in such groups as well, it was fun for awhile, but after an hour of playing I was thinking to myself "is there any better game I can play?".

Xsorus

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

1. This is the first game I play where AOE skills do more dps than single target skills. So my suggestion will be to lower damage on the players when using aoe skills.

You complain about high aoe dps...

Barbardin wrote: »

2. Sieges vs players is a joke! Please buff sieges vs large groups. More you hit more damage you cause! Buff meat bags catapult so it would reduce healing by 80%.

Yet you want to increase siege aoe dmg to absurd levels?

The number one problem with the game's design that has resulted in pushing everyone to zerg play is that ZOS has consistently nerfed mechanics, skills, and sets that helped people fight, sustain and stay alive against greater numbers, while upping the aoe dps that individuals can poop out to absurd levels.

Nothing is wrong with AOE DPS, but I have a feeling a lot of what you're referring to is stuff that happened to let certain groups zerg ball.

Barbardin

[/quote] Nothing is wrong with AOE DPS, but I have a feeling a lot of what you're referring to is stuff that happened to let certain groups zerg ball.[/quote]

Mostly to tanky ones, which you can't touch by any means! They just ignore everything you throw at them!

Xsorus

Barbardin wrote: »

Nothing is wrong with AOE DPS, but I have a feeling a lot of what you're referring to is stuff that happened to let certain groups zerg ball.[/quote]

Mostly to tanky ones, which you can't touch by any means! They just ignore everything you throw at them!
[/quote]

That would be the issue of nerfing things like Prox Det (and Vicious Death now being ***) and the increase in tanky players

Barbardin

Xsorus wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

That would be the issue of nerfing things like Prox Det (and Vicious Death now being ***) and the increase in tanky players

Like I said, ZOS should make new sieges which can Silence those groups or poison sieges, to make those group weak in defense! That is all I am asking for!

Because after 4v4v4 Arenas I expect Cyro to die out completely.

Arkangeloski

thankyourat wrote: »

Siege weapons hit pretty hard in PvP the reason it doesn't seem that way when hitting a large group is because of how much healing they have. If you make them stronger it would only hurt small groups. The only way I feel like you can deal with zergs in this game is to give people a reason to spread out. Or make it to where if you stack your whole faction in one place is detrimental. Right now it's not enough penalty for fraction stacking players can travel so fast that they can always prevent you from back dooring a keep

Back door a keep? Lmao rather die fighting a zerg than taking a keep with only npc's... You sir should be ashamed! And yes im glad they prevent you from doing so... What a disgrace!

Rohamad_Ali

If you were here on launch day you would call everything currently small scale . You will have battlefields soon .

Barbardin

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

If you were here on launch day you would call everything currently small scale . You will have battlefields soon .

What do you mean by "You will have battlefields soon"?

thankyourat

Arkangeloski wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Siege weapons hit pretty hard in PvP the reason it doesn't seem that way when hitting a large group is because of how much healing they have. If you make them stronger it would only hurt small groups. The only way I feel like you can deal with zergs in this game is to give people a reason to spread out. Or make it to where if you stack your whole faction in one place is detrimental. Right now it's not enough penalty for fraction stacking players can travel so fast that they can always prevent you from back dooring a keep

Back door a keep? Lmao rather die fighting a zerg than taking a keep with only npc's... You sir should be ashamed! And yes im glad they prevent you from doing so... What a disgrace!

You have to back door keeps to split up a faction. I see it all the time DC stacks 70 people in Chalman and what does EP do? They all run to Chalman, but at that point in time there is no way to take Chalman the aggro is too strong. So wouldn't the reasonable thing to do be attack dragonclaw and aleswell? If you keep attacking Chalman you are only feeding DC AP because after they wipe you they get a tic. What DC is doing at Chalman is called funneling it's a form of ap farming. So your choices are to either get farmed, or back door them and split them up. There is no shame in attacking a less defended keep when the other faction has the numbers online to defend. It's up to the other alliance to pick and choose were they defend, if they want to stack you have to punish them for doing so. The fact that it's hard to punish stacking is the reason zerg play is so effective in this game. And the fact that no one understands these basic concepts is the reason why I play solo and avoid zergs all together.

Rohamad_Ali

Barbardin wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

If you were here on launch day you would call everything currently small scale . You will have battlefields soon .

What do you mean by "You will have battlefields soon"?

4v4v4 Battlefields will be released this year . Equal size fights .

usmcjdking

The strength of AOE skills isn't their DPS, it's their braindead ability to just hit anything in the radius for a solid amount of damage. You couple that with stacks of people then all the sudden you have an AOE train which requires nothing but a rapids monkey, purge monkey and players spamming AOEs. No single target required.

Derra

Cap groupsize for cyrodiil to 6 and make certain abilities only work on grp - watch the world burn for two months and after that the game will be a lot more fun. Even for zergs.

Kajin

I don't understand the problem with zergs, I'm a solo player, but zergs are a part of the game that many like.
You can't siege as a solo player and cyrodiil resolves around siege/keeps.

Massive battles is what some players like. Others like to get small scale pvp and you can find it all in cyrodiil.

Etaniel

Kajin wrote: »

I don't understand the problem with zergs, I'm a solo player, but zergs are a part of the game that many like.
You can't siege as a solo player and cyrodiil resolves around siege/keeps.

Massive battles is what some players like. Others like to get small scale pvp and you can find it all in cyrodiil.

The problem isn't the zergs, the problem is the try hard zergs who find satisfaction in chasing and killing 1 or 2 dudes with 40.
They are supposed to go after keeps, no small scalers.

Xsorus

usmcjdking wrote: »

The strength of AOE skills isn't their DPS, it's their braindead ability to just hit anything in the radius for a solid amount of damage. You couple that with stacks of people then all the sudden you have an AOE train which requires nothing but a rapids monkey, purge monkey and players spamming AOEs. No single target required.

This is more a mechanical gameplay issue then an AOE issue.

The reason you could cast AOE like that was because abilities in this game in general don't have Cast Times Usually.

Imagine if for example all PBAE in this game had a cast time and couldn't be used while moving for example.

Then factor in a lack of an interrupt system.

Ghost-Shot

You destroy any and all credibility you may have had the minute you said spamming one button, you clearly don't know what you are talking about.

Minno

Only thing that's going to fix zergs is a competitive ranked battleground that gives the player a choice on the size of the fight.

A fixed 24x24x24 will be more fun than attacking a keep all night, especially if zos can provide interesting locations to fight in that are essentially lag free.

Soulac

You just need coordination and the right sets/skills to annihilate zergs. Sadly the servers can´t really handle it..

tarvokb14a_ESO

Are we talking about zergs being too strong in the kind of PvP the zone is designed for (large group strategic PvP), or are we wishing for a more instanced kind of PvP where one can reasonably expect fights to be "fair"? The way I'm reading this complaint is that it sounds like the complainers are wanting to play a game other than the one that was designed.

Angus

Cyrodiil is huge.

Zergs can only be in one place at a time.

Just go where the zerg isn't. Usually you'll run into other small-scale/soloers there too; for example if the zerg is washing back and forth from Sej to Alessia, check out Bleakers.

RinaldoGandolphi

Zers are an issue in PVP for two reasons:

1. Grossly Overpowered Player Based Area of Effect Skills(PBAOE) - This one speaks for itself. I told them in the Beta's Impulse was OP,. and it would be used by stacked groups, and it was. I told them Steel Tornado was OP in the 1.6 PTs and it would be used by stacked groups and it was. I told them Eye of the Storm was way OP in my feedback on the PTS, and it was.

Liquid Lighting, Eruption, Wall of Elements, Arrow Barrage, etc...why would you sue these skills in PVP they SUCK compared to their PBAOE counterparts....hmm...push a button 1 time and deal 4-5k instant damage to everyone in a radius around me, or cast one of the woefully sucky ground based AOE that someone would have to stand inside its tiny radius for 3-4 seconds to get daamge comparable to the PBAOE....don't take a genius to figure out why zergs are a problem.

PBAOE need to goo...ALL OF THEM removed from the game completed, and replaced with Ground Targeted AOE...Liquid Lighting, Wall of Elements, Eruption, Arrow Barrage...those are actually balanced and what AOE should be, not these grossly OP PBAOE we have in this game now...Steel Tornado does more damage then over 70% of the single target skills in the game...thats broken....EOTS speaks for itself...why would anyone use anything else?

2. Woefully Underpowered Siege - Again, this one speaks for itselfs. I remember when Agrippa, myself and a few others successfully convinced ZOS to up siege damage, and we had a month where lag was minimal...but then all the zerg balls started whining because 1 Siege shot would kill half their group(As it should, don't want to die move) and they nerfed the damge and the lag came back to the game.

There are player skills that do more damage then siege and thats simply stupid. My Sorc can just shield though siege like it doesn't even matter.

Siege is the equivalent of this:



in what world does any reasonable person think a machine gun should do more damage then that?(It won't)

You can be insta-killed in this game with a dagger(Incapacitating Strike), but can be shot with a 70 pound piece of flaming rock traveling close to the speed of sound and simply shrug it off like it does;t matter. and we wonder why there are ball groups and lag.


When we had powerful siege for a few weeks, these ball groups died...and they died quickly...the server didn't lag all the time...the last Emp keep was over quickly because 1 Fire Ballista Bolt could kill 10-12 people in a single hit....and thats how it should be.

Siege is mostly ineffective for obvious reasons such as champ points, etc.

"Change siege where it gets a 5% increase in damage for each target hit with no cap on targets that can be hit and scaling damage up to 300%. Also, damage shielding effects such as Barrier and Hardened Ward no longer mitigate or absorb damage from siege artillery, and siege damage is no longer reduced by the Battle Spirit nerf, and Oil Catapault Snare is no longer Purgable"

This means:
if you hit 10 targets the siege does 50% more damage to everyone hit.
If you hit 20 targets it does 100% more damage to everyone hit.
If you hit 30 targets it does 150% more damage to everyone hit.
if you hit 40 targets its does 200% more damage to everyone hit.
if you hit 50 targets it does 250% more damage to everyone hit.
if you hit 60 targets it does 300% more damage to everyone hit.

Zergs will continue to be a problem as long as these game mechanics of too PBAOE exist and ground AOE suck. You look at every pain train from Havoc to present ALL OF them use whatever OP PBAOE skill was around at the time to make it work...EOTS just happens to be the one now. Ineffeitve siege and terrible ground target AOE make the situation worse.

Observing groups like Havoc, IR, etc for many many months i know full well what the strategies were(they were good at it too, not dissing them) im no fool, im a very good learner by observation. I don't like to run in large groups, its not fun to me...4-5 is really pushing it for me...im just not a big fan of numbers = victory 99.8% of the time...the game wasn't always like this, and its a shame that it is now.

AegisWolf

I'd be happy with buffing siege damage to useful levels, though it shouldn't scale with number of people hit, and nerfing the ability of individual players to put down large, damaging AoEs. That said, zerging is healthy. Teamwork and organization should be rewarded. You should need a large group to deal with another large group. You shouldn't have a half-dozen experts fighting through a hundred casual PvPers.