Stamplar DPS down RIP, or is it the target dummy

yttoks

My stamplar main appears to have taken a major hit on DPS if the target dummy is any indication. Guess I don't have an exact comparison, maybe it would have been that low on an equivalent target pre-update, and it's a little early to say for sure (haven't hit any dungeons yet, just trash mobs, but they seem to be going down slower). I'm pretty sure stamplars did not require a damage reduction, so I'm hoping it's just my imagination.

How are your stamina toons doing?

Bobby_V_Rockit

Poorly

Kram8ion

All test dummies have NB tattooed on their heads

HatchetHaro

36.5k on my Argonian stam DK, solo. Would be higher with different gear.

I'd say mine is doing fine, but I gotta work more for it.

Weasel_Tunneler

HatchetHaro wrote: »

36.5k on my Argonian stam DK, solo. Would be higher with different gear.

I'd say mine is doing fine, but I gotta work more for it.

Do you hit it per hit ?

HatchetHaro

Weasel_Tunneler wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

36.5k on my Argonian stam DK, solo. Would be higher with different gear.

I'd say mine is doing fine, but I gotta work more for it.

Do you hit it per hit ?

Yes, I hit it every time, if that's what you're asking. 100% of the time, all of the time. It's a stationary target; you can't miss it. My aim isn't that bad...

disintegr8

Tested a target dummy on my healer, using my normal dungeon healing settings and averaged 7.5k DPS. It took nearly 7 minutes (base model) but I never ran out of magicka. Gotta look at the positives

Ep1kMalware

yttoks wrote: »

My stamplar main appears to have taken a major hit on DPS if the target dummy is any indication. Guess I don't have an exact comparison, maybe it would have been that low on an equivalent target pre-update, and it's a little early to say for sure (haven't hit any dungeons yet, just trash mobs, but they seem to be going down slower). I'm pretty sure stamplars did not require a damage reduction, so I'm hoping it's just my imagination.

How are your stamina toons doing?

What is your rotation?

Pallio

Stamplar has been the bottom of the food chain for dps, since forever? Maybe not in beta...

That being said with good gear and disciplined rotation you should be be close to 20k dps.

Pallio

In comparison my mag sorc and temp can hit 25k with less than perfect/sloppy rotation. Clipping dots etc.

Ep1kMalware

Pallio wrote: »

Stamplar has been the bottom of the food chain for dps, since forever? Maybe not in beta...

That being said with good gear and disciplined rotation you should be be close to 20k dps.

There's no reason you can't be pulling close to 40k dps on stam templar. If you think stamp is pulling low numbers you're not using the class right. You should perform on par with stam sorc. Again what is your rotation?

^because something is way left field with it and I can't help if ya'll keep it a secret.

Edit: if you're pulling 20k just spamming jabs that's your problem.

Bobby_V_Rockit

I'm struggling to break 17k on meta stam sorc lol

xblackroxe

Pallio wrote: »

Stamplar has been the bottom of the food chain for dps, since forever? Maybe not in beta...

That being said with good gear and disciplined rotation you should be be close to 20k dps.

Dont you remember good old 1.6 times?

Stamplar was op xD

But only because:
-)skoria was broken op, either you were wearing skoria or you didn't do dps right
-)sharpend mace broken giving you 100% pen
-)caltrops procing ravager
-)broken camo hunter

GoldParadox

My friend and I were testing on my target dummy and noticed that there was a discrepancy between FTC's DPS number and the one given by the game. Since most of us have been using the FTC one for the longest time, I am not sure which one to trust more. Maybe the target dummy has glitches when multiple players attack it at the same time? Will have to do more thorough testings, though.

cpuScientist

StamPlar can pull great numbers. The problem with them e is resource management, it's bad. But all the stam classes are pulling neato numbers, got a tad better though.

However my magSorc holy **** they vastly OVERPOWERED them. It's faaaaar to easy to pull high as heck numbers. MagDK also pulling quite high. But they are stomping Stam single target. And AOE! Forget about it. It's so damn sad. ZOS just unbalanced PvE bigly,
☝️SAD!☝️

hedna123b14_ESO

yttoks wrote: »

My stamplar main appears to have taken a major hit on DPS if the target dummy is any indication. Guess I don't have an exact comparison, maybe it would have been that low on an equivalent target pre-update, and it's a little early to say for sure (haven't hit any dungeons yet, just trash mobs, but they seem to be going down slower). I'm pretty sure stamplars did not require a damage reduction, so I'm hoping it's just my imagination.

How are your stamina toons doing?

Stamplar parses well and the damage isnt bad...magicka is just better..

yttoks

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Pallio wrote: »

Stamplar has been the bottom of the food chain for dps, since forever? Maybe not in beta...

That being said with good gear and disciplined rotation you should be be close to 20k dps.

There's no reason you can't be pulling close to 40k dps on stam templar. If you think stamp is pulling low numbers you're not using the class right. You should perform on par with stam sorc. Again what is your rotation?

^because something is way left field with it and I can't help if ya'll keep it a secret.

Edit: if you're pulling 20k just spamming jabs that's your problem.

Yeah, if 40k is possible then I'm definitely doing something wrong. Besides not using DW. I hate DW, and don't care if I lose some DPS with 2H.

The point was not that I don't have completely maxed DPS, but that it has dropped significantly and I don't believe it was OP to begin with. I was 25 - 30k pre-homestead. Down to 23k max on a perfect run. Usually closer to 20k.

Rotation is: Rally, PoL, Endless Hail (w Mael bow), Merc charge (w Mael maul), Rearm Traps, bit jabs until PoL goes off, PoL, jab until Endless Hail needs reproc, back up while reapplying Hail and PoL, Merc charge, jab and reapply rearm Traps when it ends, Rinse & Repeat, reapply Rally every third cycle. Dawnbreaker when it's charged. Probably not perfect, but not completely off.

Gear is, Kragh, Spriggans, Agility jewelry, Maelstrom bow & Maul all gold except jewelry. Also not BiS, but not a silly loadout, either.

I welcome any suggestions, I'm sure there's room for improvement, but I don't see how I can go from 23k to 40k. I don't realistically see 30k as a possibility. That'd be a 30% boost, and I'm not sure I'm that far off with this setup. If you can show me the way, you'll be my new ESO hero!

Mic1007

You'll need Dual Wield, sorry. An extra set bonus, DoTs, extra Crit chance, etc. Without it, hitting 25k will be a challenge.

templesus

Your using 2h/bow and ur not using poison inject...cmon now

yttoks

GoldParadox wrote: »

My friend and I were testing on my target dummy and noticed that there was a discrepancy between FTC's DPS number and the one given by the game. Since most of us have been using the FTC one for the longest time, I am not sure which one to trust more. Maybe the target dummy has glitches when multiple players attack it at the same time? Will have to do more thorough testings, though.

I read somewhere that if you have AoE applied when the target goes down, that it will continue counting and the DPS figure will be off. Not sure about multiple player attacks. I've only tried it solo, and I can only compare the numbers I was getting out in the world pre-Homestead to the target dummy numbers post-Homestead. Since the original post, I'm definitely sure it's not just the target dummy. My DPS numbers are significantly down after Homestead.

Oh well, in all honesty the game was getting boring and had become way too easy. Post-homestead it's still too easy, but I do have to pay attention again.

yttoks

Pallio wrote: »

Stamplar has been the bottom of the food chain for dps, since forever? Maybe not in beta...

That being said with good gear and disciplined rotation you should be be close to 20k dps.

That's just about exactly where I am. Pre-homestead I was running ~ 30k, though. I suspect part of it was the change to crits on procs. I run animal traps always, so that change will have effected my build more than average.

Tavore1138

yttoks wrote: »

GoldParadox wrote: »

My friend and I were testing on my target dummy and noticed that there was a discrepancy between FTC's DPS number and the one given by the game. Since most of us have been using the FTC one for the longest time, I am not sure which one to trust more. Maybe the target dummy has glitches when multiple players attack it at the same time? Will have to do more thorough testings, though.

I read somewhere that if you have AoE applied when the target goes down, that it will continue counting and the DPS figure will be off. Not sure about multiple player attacks. I've only tried it solo, and I can only compare the numbers I was getting out in the world pre-Homestead to the target dummy numbers post-Homestead. Since the original post, I'm definitely sure it's not just the target dummy. My DPS numbers are significantly down after Homestead.

Oh well, in all honesty the game was getting boring and had become way too easy. Post-homestead it's still too easy, but I do have to pay attention again.

That's is true if you, for example, drop caltrops or other longer lasting aoe just before it dies there is a chance that when it respawns you will be in combat with the new dummy, depending on how you have your DPS meter set then this will give you lower numbers... you can change the addons to have a shorter time out for the static dummies to avoid this but remember to change them back again for real combat where you mechanics cause interruptions in your dps...

souravami

No way on earth a stamplar can pull 40k st if he isn't using vMA dw. Using jabs as your main spammable you should pull 25k if you're decent, around 30k if you're very good.

DocFrost72

My stamblade pulled 24997 or something (all I remember was cursing like a sailor at being within 100 damage of 25k) in a 119 second selle test. That was entirely solo: no tank with piercing, no warhorn or SPC.

As for my stamplar, I haven't tested him since pre-homestead, I'll have to get on that and check. Doubly so since I recently switched to dual wield (ugggh) on him.

@yttoks 25k with two handed is possible, just really hard. Pre-homestead, my stamplar (2h at that time) was pulling parses of 22-23k. With a monster set, I could have broken the 25k mark, I think.

And yeah, I feel you. 2H on templars just feels...right.

GreenhaloX

yttoks wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Pallio wrote: »

Stamplar has been the bottom of the food chain for dps, since forever? Maybe not in beta...

That being said with good gear and disciplined rotation you should be be close to 20k dps.

There's no reason you can't be pulling close to 40k dps on stam templar. If you think stamp is pulling low numbers you're not using the class right. You should perform on par with stam sorc. Again what is your rotation?

^because something is way left field with it and I can't help if ya'll keep it a secret.

Edit: if you're pulling 20k just spamming jabs that's your problem.

Yeah, if 40k is possible then I'm definitely doing something wrong. Besides not using DW. I hate DW, and don't care if I lose some DPS with 2H.

The point was not that I don't have completely maxed DPS, but that it has dropped significantly and I don't believe it was OP to begin with. I was 25 - 30k pre-homestead. Down to 23k max on a perfect run. Usually closer to 20k.

Rotation is: Rally, PoL, Endless Hail (w Mael bow), Merc charge (w Mael maul), Rearm Traps, bit jabs until PoL goes off, PoL, jab until Endless Hail needs reproc, back up while reapplying Hail and PoL, Merc charge, jab and reapply rearm Traps when it ends, Rinse & Repeat, reapply Rally every third cycle. Dawnbreaker when it's charged. Probably not perfect, but not completely off.

Gear is, Kragh, Spriggans, Agility jewelry, Maelstrom bow & Maul all gold except jewelry. Also not BiS, but not a silly loadout, either.

I welcome any suggestions, I'm sure there's room for improvement, but I don't see how I can go from 23k to 40k. I don't realistically see 30k as a possibility. That'd be a 30% boost, and I'm not sure I'm that far off with this setup. If you can show me the way, you'll be my new ESO hero!

Don't feel bad about using 2H over DW. I love 2H. I have both builds, separately, with a 2H and the other with DW and switch between the builds on and off. Replace the Rearming with Lightweight Beast Trap. The Lightweight still gives out good DoT and more damages, since the nerfing of the Rearming. Also, since you're using a 2H build, you may have to bite the bullet and get rid of the Kragh set. For my 2H build, I don't use a monster set proc. This allows me to have two 5-piece sets, like a 5-piece Spriggan and 5-piece Ravaging; or Black Rose; or Hunding's Rage.. you get the idea. I do enough damages with the 2H and take targets out fast enough, that the monster set proc isn't making a difference. I like having two 5-piece sets. So, I don't care much for a Maelstrom weapon. Slotting that just screws up my sets combo. Hey, to each it's own, though.

So, without the monster set, or a Maelstrom weapon, with my 2H build, I'm still seeing damage numbers (sustainably) in the 20K and 30K, per strike (not overall dps.) At times, here and there, I'm also seeing numbers in the 38-41k (per hit.) Now, these, I'm sure, are from the empowered passive of the greatsword and when passive from the Ravaging set hit. I also enchant my weapons with that 5 seconds increased damage glyph. Plus, my Mighty is maxed out for the 25% extra weapon damage. Having numbers from 20-30 something K pop up frequently within the rotations, along with other supplemental DoTs, any target doesn't stay up too long. Lastly, if you have Igneous Weapon, use that over Rally. You get more overall weapon damage increase than Rally, but, of course, I also slot vigor for health regen, since I don't have the health regen from the Rally. Hope this helps some.

idk

Pallio wrote: »

Stamplar has been the bottom of the food chain for dps, since forever? Maybe not in beta...

That being said with good gear and disciplined rotation you should be be close to 20k dps.

Stamplar has done just fine. Have seen near 50k on Rakkhat from someone who doesn't play that class in vMoL regularly. For high end dps pre homestead that's not shabby.

Ep1kMalware

yttoks wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Pallio wrote: »

Stamplar has been the bottom of the food chain for dps, since forever? Maybe not in beta...

That being said with good gear and disciplined rotation you should be be close to 20k dps.

There's no reason you can't be pulling close to 40k dps on stam templar. If you think stamp is pulling low numbers you're not using the class right. You should perform on par with stam sorc. Again what is your rotation?

^because something is way left field with it and I can't help if ya'll keep it a secret.

Edit: if you're pulling 20k just spamming jabs that's your problem.

Yeah, if 40k is possible then I'm definitely doing something wrong. Besides not using DW. I hate DW, and don't care if I lose some DPS with 2H.

The point was not that I don't have completely maxed DPS, but that it has dropped significantly and I don't believe it was OP to begin with. I was 25 - 30k pre-homestead. Down to 23k max on a perfect run. Usually closer to 20k.

Rotation is: Rally, PoL, Endless Hail (w Mael bow), Merc charge (w Mael maul), Rearm Traps, bit jabs until PoL goes off, PoL, jab until Endless Hail needs reproc, back up while reapplying Hail and PoL, Merc charge, jab and reapply rearm Traps when it ends, Rinse & Repeat, reapply Rally every third cycle. Dawnbreaker when it's charged. Probably not perfect, but not completely off.

Gear is, Kragh, Spriggans, Agility jewelry, Maelstrom bow & Maul all gold except jewelry. Also not BiS, but not a silly loadout, either.

I welcome any suggestions, I'm sure there's room for improvement, but I don't see how I can go from 23k to 40k. I don't realistically see 30k as a possibility. That'd be a 30% boost, and I'm not sure I'm that far off with this setup. If you can show me the way, you'll be my new ESO hero!

Hmm. Well, you said you hate dw. So i'll work with you. first thing first I'd respec your skill morphs, you'll find some reset and are therefore hitting lower/costing more. 4-5 random normal dungeons will fix this. Also seems like you got alot of extra skillslots open.

Lingering ritual(or)restoring focus for major mending/tankyness with rally will buff your healing a bit. poison injection is a must, at execute mine hits for nearly 30k in vet dungeons.

Crit is also a must, since templars are heavy into applying dots/crit dmg. I'd include the 2h skill 'carve' as it applies a dot as well as builds ultimate faster. Don't forget you can weave between jabs, it does take practice. Hit your jabs button, tap light atk twice amd jabs again. Very smooth once you get it down.

I also noticed you're bending your rotation with potl, it's good to keep thst up but replacing it right away will cost you dps. I'd try something like:

Rearming trap, cancel light atk with carve, bar cancel, endless hail (block cancel) potl, poison injection bar cancel always! jabs. Remember you want to reapply dots right as they're wearing off, so figure only jab weaving for 5-6 seconds. So like 5 sec+dawnbreaker or 6 sec no dawnbreaker. you don't want to wait for visual cues either, if you time your rotation out you wont need them. If you put potl on mainbar it'll probly be faster to keep up, you definitely want it active while your dots are raming up tho. So I'd

[mainbar] rally | rearming trap | potl | carve | jabs4
[Backbar] lingering ritual | endless hail | poison injection

first rally up, (maybe drop trap) and start from backbar:

Endless hail, block cancel
Lingering ritual, cancel however you want. Light atk doesn't hurt.
Poison injection, bar swap cancel
Trap beast, light attack cancel, cancel the light atk with carve.
potl, cancel however
Jabs and light attack for 5 seconds, hit dawnbreaker, bar cancel
Endless hail, block cancel
Lingering ritual, cancel however
Poison injection, bar cancel
Rearming trap, light attack cancel, cancel again with carve
Potl
Jabs for 6 seconds, bar swap
Endless hail, block cancel
Ritual, cancel however
Poison injection, bar swap cancel
Rearming trap, light atk cancel, cancel light atk with carve
Potl
Jabs for 5 seconds, rally, and bar swap.

if you need to rally or drop an ulti simply jabs 1 less time. how you do it is really up to you, but you want to aim for a more automated system. Don't over focus on potl, if it runs out w/e you'll get back to it. Ideally you want to put it AFTER your dots are applied and BEFORE you jabs, that way it is giving fracture on the highest amount of incoming famage you have. Starting off with endless hail will allow it to build up the damage before potl is inflicted.

I hope this helps you out at all.

djyrb

xblackroxe wrote: »

Dont you remember good old 1.6 times?

Stamplar was op xD

But only because:
-)skoria was broken op, either you were wearing skoria or you didn't do dps right
-)sharpend mace broken giving you 100% pen
-)caltrops procing ravager
-)broken camo hunter

I remember those glory days....

Also, you left out Caltrops proccing Adrenaline Rush/Red Diamond racials too xD

yttoks

templesus wrote: »

Your using 2h/bow and ur not using poison inject...cmon now

Doh, knew I was forgetting something. Yes, poison inject right after endless hail. Not sure if I'd be better off waiting until 50% to add it, though. Right now I use it at the top of the rotation. I want to test that. Any thoughts?

yttoks

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Hmm. Well, you said you hate dw. So i'll work with you. first thing first I'd respec your skill morphs, you'll find some reset and are therefore hitting lower/costing more. 4-5 random normal dungeons will fix this. Also seems like you got alot of extra skillslots open.



Lingering ritual(or)restoring focus for major mending/tankyness with rally will buff your healing a bit. poison injection is a must, at execute mine hits for nearly 30k in vet dungeons.

Crit is also a must, since templars are heavy into applying dots/crit dmg. I'd include the 2h skill 'carve' as it applies a dot as well as builds ultimate faster. Don't forget you can weave between jabs, it does take practice. Hit your jabs button, tap light atk twice amd jabs again. Very smooth once you get it down.

I also noticed you're bending your rotation with potl, it's good to keep thst up but replacing it right away will cost you dps. I'd try something like:

Rearming trap, cancel light atk with carve, bar cancel, endless hail (block cancel) potl, poison injection bar cancel always! jabs. Remember you want to reapply dots right as they're wearing off, so figure only jab weaving for 5-6 seconds. So like 5 sec+dawnbreaker or 6 sec no dawnbreaker. you don't want to wait for visual cues either, if you time your rotation out you wont need them. If you put potl on mainbar it'll probly be faster to keep up, you definitely want it active while your dots are raming up tho. So I'd

[mainbar] rally | rearming trap | potl | carve | jabs4
[Backbar] lingering ritual | endless hail | poison injection

first rally up, (maybe drop trap) and start from backbar:

Endless hail, block cancel
Lingering ritual, cancel however you want. Light atk doesn't hurt.
Poison injection, bar swap cancel
Trap beast, light attack cancel, cancel the light atk with carve.
potl, cancel however
Jabs and light attack for 5 seconds, hit dawnbreaker, bar cancel
Endless hail, block cancel
Lingering ritual, cancel however
Poison injection, bar cancel
Rearming trap, light attack cancel, cancel again with carve
Potl
Jabs for 6 seconds, bar swap
Endless hail, block cancel
Ritual, cancel however
Poison injection, bar swap cancel
Rearming trap, light atk cancel, cancel light atk with carve
Potl
Jabs for 5 seconds, rally, and bar swap.

if you need to rally or drop an ulti simply jabs 1 less time. how you do it is really up to you, but you want to aim for a more automated system. Don't over focus on potl, if it runs out w/e you'll get back to it. Ideally you want to put it AFTER your dots are applied and BEFORE you jabs, that way it is giving fracture on the highest amount of incoming famage you have. Starting off with endless hail will allow it to build up the damage before potl is inflicted.

I hope this helps you out at all.

It does.

Yeah, I left utility skills out of the discussion, focusing on the dps rotation (I use vigor, ritual, etc ad hoc only when needed), and forgot poison injection, which goes on right after endless hail. My skill bars are very similar to what you wrote. Instead of focus, i have vigor and ritual on the back bar, where traps is also (so all the dot's are coming from the back bar, except merciless charge Maelstrom DoT.) Front bar is exactly the same, but repentance instead of carve. I've always ran repentance because I solo so much, but in a dungeon i think you might have a point with carve. I tested it in the PoL slot, and that was a definite dps loss, but in repentance's slot it makes sense.

I'm going to test your idea with PoL after DoT's. That might be significant, especially with Mael Endless Hail. I think PoL is going off before the end of Hail, where the highest damage occurs.

I'm not sure what you mean by bending the rotation with PoL. If I understand correctly, I may have given the wrong impression. The DoT's are definitely the priority. During a fight, I'm focusing on getting endless hail up immediately after it ends, along with injection and traps. Only after returning to the front bar does PoL go back up, and there's typically a second or two in the rotation when it's not up, which I think is OK if it increases the DoTs' uptimes. Is that what you meant?

I also weave mediums with jabs instead of lights. I might try that again, but I found on any lengthy fights the gains in ultimate don't counterbalance the loss of sustain. I end up running out of stam before a boss level char is down with light weaving. But, maybe there's some DPS to be found there, maybe putting a sustain enchant somewhere.

Anyhow, thanks for your input! That gives me a few things to try out.

Ep1kMalware

yttoks wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Hmm. Well, you said you hate dw. So i'll work with you. first thing first I'd respec your skill morphs, you'll find some reset and are therefore hitting lower/costing more. 4-5 random normal dungeons will fix this. Also seems like you got alot of extra skillslots open.



Lingering ritual(or)restoring focus for major mending/tankyness with rally will buff your healing a bit. poison injection is a must, at execute mine hits for nearly 30k in vet dungeons.

Crit is also a must, since templars are heavy into applying dots/crit dmg. I'd include the 2h skill 'carve' as it applies a dot as well as builds ultimate faster. Don't forget you can weave between jabs, it does take practice. Hit your jabs button, tap light atk twice amd jabs again. Very smooth once you get it down.

I also noticed you're bending your rotation with potl, it's good to keep thst up but replacing it right away will cost you dps. I'd try something like:

Rearming trap, cancel light atk with carve, bar cancel, endless hail (block cancel) potl, poison injection bar cancel always! jabs. Remember you want to reapply dots right as they're wearing off, so figure only jab weaving for 5-6 seconds. So like 5 sec+dawnbreaker or 6 sec no dawnbreaker. you don't want to wait for visual cues either, if you time your rotation out you wont need them. If you put potl on mainbar it'll probly be faster to keep up, you definitely want it active while your dots are raming up tho. So I'd

[mainbar] rally | rearming trap | potl | carve | jabs4
[Backbar] lingering ritual | endless hail | poison injection

first rally up, (maybe drop trap) and start from backbar:

Endless hail, block cancel
Lingering ritual, cancel however you want. Light atk doesn't hurt.
Poison injection, bar swap cancel
Trap beast, light attack cancel, cancel the light atk with carve.
potl, cancel however
Jabs and light attack for 5 seconds, hit dawnbreaker, bar cancel
Endless hail, block cancel
Lingering ritual, cancel however
Poison injection, bar cancel
Rearming trap, light attack cancel, cancel again with carve
Potl
Jabs for 6 seconds, bar swap
Endless hail, block cancel
Ritual, cancel however
Poison injection, bar swap cancel
Rearming trap, light atk cancel, cancel light atk with carve
Potl
Jabs for 5 seconds, rally, and bar swap.

if you need to rally or drop an ulti simply jabs 1 less time. how you do it is really up to you, but you want to aim for a more automated system. Don't over focus on potl, if it runs out w/e you'll get back to it. Ideally you want to put it AFTER your dots are applied and BEFORE you jabs, that way it is giving fracture on the highest amount of incoming famage you have. Starting off with endless hail will allow it to build up the damage before potl is inflicted.

I hope this helps you out at all.

It does.

Yeah, I left utility skills out of the discussion, focusing on the dps rotation (I use vigor, ritual, etc ad hoc only when needed), and forgot poison injection, which goes on right after endless hail. My skill bars are very similar to what you wrote. Instead of focus, i have vigor and ritual on the back bar, where traps is also (so all the dot's are coming from the back bar, except merciless charge Maelstrom DoT.) Front bar is exactly the same, but repentance instead of carve. I've always ran repentance because I solo so much, but in a dungeon i think you might have a point with carve. I tested it in the PoL slot, and that was a definite dps loss, but in repentance's slot it makes sense.

I'm going to test your idea with PoL after DoT's. That might be significant, especially with Mael Endless Hail. I think PoL is going off before the end of Hail, where the highest damage occurs.

I'm not sure what you mean by bending the rotation with PoL. If I understand correctly, I may have given the wrong impression. The DoT's are definitely the priority. During a fight, I'm focusing on getting endless hail up immediately after it ends, along with injection and traps. Only after returning to the front bar does PoL go back up, and there's typically a second or two in the rotation when it's not up, which I think is OK if it increases the DoTs' uptimes. Is that what you meant?

I also weave mediums with jabs instead of lights. I might try that again, but I found on any lengthy fights the gains in ultimate don't counterbalance the loss of sustain. I end up running out of stam before a boss level char is down with light weaving. But, maybe there's some DPS to be found there, maybe putting a sustain enchant somewhere.

Anyhow, thanks for your input! That gives me a few things to try out.

I got ya, no having vigor/repentence is fine, for 99% of all content my bars look like this all vma weapons. Dw is axe mainhand for bleed dot, dagger offhand for crit.

[Mainbar] blood craze, lingering ritual, trapbeast, flurry, biting jabs [rend ult]
[Backbar] endless hail, repentence, vigor, poison injection, caltrops [dawnbreaker]

if I need to I'll swap out caltrops for potl in some fights. I get my major brutality from potions also. My cp tree iirc is 100 mighty, 2 precise strikes, 48 thuamaturge, 50 into the other one. 100 mooncalf, 100 elfborn, 40 quick recovery, 20 thick skinned, 70 into hardy/eledender.

Gear is usually spriggans or automatons, 2x molag kena, vma weapons, gold vo jewelry. Thief mundus. Will experiment with leviathan set + shadow soon sometime.

Trials I use tbs, kr'agh, vma weps, vo jewelry, thief shadow.

Rotation goes like

Flurry
Trapbeast, la
bloodcraze
Rend (ult)
Flurry
endless hail, block cancel
Caltrops, light atk
Poison inject, bar swap
(Kena proc choice)
Jabs 4 sec (5 sec no ulti)
Ritual
start over

After the bar swap I can light attack, and kena procs, or jabs immrdiately for no proc. If I cc break or need to het vigor, breakfree, kr anything I deduct that time out of my jabs. I can usually have 3x 22-28k dots up amongst my other dots, I cannot let these run out. I can sustain kena bursting for 45-60 seconds so I usually wait till bosses are 1.5m hp or lower. Or while killing trashmobs. Fantastic for dungeons. If I'm running with other good dps I'll just kena burst then whole fight. Anything 5m hp or lower is dead in under a minute anyway.

I never run out of stam pretty much ever. I reckon your skills being goofed up from the update might be increasing the cost a bit. My race is woodelf. I 5-1-1 my gear too, thos tbs/kr'aghs is all medium.

Stamina templar really is an incredible class, it's hella tanky, absurd life regen, and is a dps powerhouse with just self buffs. I think it's nicely balanced by not having native major/minor brutality, low health, and stam recovery being after things die. It's also quite a bit harder to play, but a very fun class for those that bother.